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 DortmundOutpost wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
They are traitor guard and use a lot of guard units so they got lumped into that book.
Maelific Lords are included there.

Thank you very much!

So what would you suggest for the proxy of Malefic Lord.

Some guy here used Prodos Warzone Miniatures (they look really cool), another guy used AOS Magister or AOS Kairic Acolytes.
Any other ideas?

Crypt horror arms, Flagrant bodies, 3rd party skull heads. Any AoS sorcerer with a decently evil looking head swap should work as well. I usually use these dudes as a psyker coven, but when I need malefic lords, why not?

I was using electro priests as sergeants for my R&H. I chopped off the priest hands and put daemon hands on them instead. Now with sergeants not giving demagogues, or being anything special. I'll probably use them as Malefic lords as well.. if I ever want to be that guy and run more than 10. You can kind of see them in the back of the second picture

I use 9 of these.

Worth noting that under ITC new rules, having a Heretic Astartes unit does not break ObSec for troops in a Daemons detachment so long as the unit has the Chaos faction keyword and the Daemon unit keyword.

Great for me, because I am having a lot of fun with my Epidemius list that has Bloat Drones and Heldrakes.

However, Heretic Astartes would not have any of their legion traits.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
However, Heretic Astartes would not have any of their legion traits.

Very true, but at least in my case, keeping Brimstones OB-sec, while letting my Prince come from CSM (and thus get the spell I want most), is awesome!

I believe CSM Princes don't have Daemon allegiances though, so no Ephermal Form, Disgusting Resilience, etc. Just be aware of that.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I believe CSM Princes don't have Daemon allegiances though, so no Ephermal Form, Disgusting Resilience, etc. Just be aware of that.

I am, and it DEFINITELY sucks, but having access to an emergency (and "hide-able) backup source of Prescience for my Slaanesh Terminators is important enough to give it up.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I use 9 of these.

I plan on using the Chaos Knights as my maelific lords (I dislike the FW model):


Painting 4 to be one of the "Four Horsemen" and the rest with their halbred/spears.

They'll definitely be way too big if you do that, but most people won't complain about modeling for disadvantage.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
They'll definitely be way too big if you do that, but most people won't complain about modeling for disadvantage.

I'd figure it'd be modeling for disadvantage since it'll be harder to hide them in LOS blocking terrain.

Yes. That's what I said. People won't care, because you modeled for disadvantage.

 Virules wrote:
Worth noting that under ITC new rules, having a Heretic Astartes unit does not break ObSec for troops in a Daemons detachment so long as the unit has the Chaos faction keyword and the Daemon unit keyword.

Great for me, because I am having a lot of fun with my Epidemius list that has Bloat Drones and Heldrakes.

Wrong. Check how the keywords are on a Chaos Daemon and on a CSM daemon unit.
Chaos Daemons have both Chaos and Daemon in Faction keywords, while CSM deamons have Chaos in Faction and Daemon in keywords.

This has been confirmed BTW, you can't take csm daemons and still get ob sec. Sucks as I have 2 heldrakes and now need a 3rd flier to use them :/ .. Or take one of the 3 no troop detachments. Sad that Supreme command doesn't let you take fliers

He wasn't talking about actual rules, just how the ITC are ruling it.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
He wasn't talking about actual rules, just how the ITC are ruling it.

And ITC are ruling it like I've said. Read the comments on the page and see Reece respond exactly as I've said....

I have and he said as Virules wrote. Whether he meant that I doubt. Either way, worth clarifying before building a tourney list.

There's nothing worth clarifying. What are you talking about...

If you use a CSM daemon in a Chaos Daemons detachment - the troops will NOT get objective secured

Reece was pretty explicit in saying more than once that you need to have the Chaos faction keyword and be a Daemon (ie have the Daemon keyword). If he meant have both the Chaos and the Daemon faction keywords, why wouldn't he have said that?

It's also worth noting for anyone concerned, LVO Head judges confirmed interactions like Obliterators/Mutilators working w/ thing like Daemon Heralds, Masque, Changeling, etc.

They count as both their <Legion> and <Allegiance>.

 gwarsh41 wrote:

 DortmundOutpost wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
They are traitor guard and use a lot of guard units so they got lumped into that book.
Maelific Lords are included there.

Thank you very much!

So what would you suggest for the proxy of Malefic Lord.

Some guy here used Prodos Warzone Miniatures (they look really cool), another guy used AOS Magister or AOS Kairic Acolytes.
Any other ideas?

Crypt horror arms, Flagrant bodies, 3rd party skull heads. Any AoS sorcerer with a decently evil looking head swap should work as well. I usually use these dudes as a psyker coven, but when I need malefic lords, why not?

I was using electro priests as sergeants for my R&H. I chopped off the priest hands and put daemon hands on them instead. Now with sergeants not giving demagogues, or being anything special. I'll probably use them as Malefic lords as well.. if I ever want to be that guy and run more than 10. You can kind of see them in the back of the second picture

The Crypt Horror/Flagrant Conversion looks sooooo good! Very nice!
I think im gonna route for that too....any links for the models? Oh wait.... i am able to use google by myself


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another question: Can you summon the changeling more than 1x time? So that you have as many on the field as you like?

And is it still legal to have Malefic Lords as Supreme Command Detachment, in a Daemon Army?

Everyone is talking about things like Objective Secured.....what does it mean in context with Allegiance or if you have a Vanguard Detachment with 1x Malefic Lord and 3x Exalted Flamer?

No, you cannot summon him more than once.

Yes, perfectly legal to take 5 as a supreme command. The army shares the chaos keyword.

Second, allegiances do not count as a faction, simply a keyword.

To be chaos daemonz every unit in the detachment must be CHAOS and DAEMON.

Sokhar wrote:
Reece was pretty explicit in saying more than once that you need to have the Chaos faction keyword and be a Daemon (ie have the Daemon keyword). If he meant have both the Chaos and the Daemon faction keywords, why wouldn't he have said that?

*re-reads the comments* Wait wha- I'm dumb and blind.

also - yay, I can run heldrakes again.

Does this elude to Daemon engines being in Chaos Daemon Codex I wonder... There's a chance. Just like daemon troops got added to CSM, why not daemon engines to CD?

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Second, allegiances do not count as a faction, simply a keyword.

Just to be clear so there's no confusion that should be "Allegiances do not count as a faction for the purposes of Objective Secured".
They are still a Faction Keyword for detachment and army construction.

What do you guys think is the best ranged Chaos Daemon (wink) we have out of these:
1. Defiler
2. Obliterators
3. Forgefiens
4. Lord of skulls ()

Obliterators. It's not even close.

I don't understand the obsec rules people are mentioning, could someone explain which units get obsec and which don't?

All Troop units in a <Faction> Detachment get ObSec

Problem now is that it is not defined what <Faction> is and that some have a problem do understand that, for example, some Detachment cannot get the Chaos Legion Bonus and ObSec at the same time.

Like Berserker played as Troops from the Index WE list get ObSec but won't get the Legion bonus

A CSM Detachment with Daemon Troops get ObSec but not the Legion bonus

etc

That last part is wrong. A CSM Detachment with daemon troops will NOT have obsec.

yeah wrong wording, as you will play it as Chaos Detachment
I forgot that CSM as now the name and not Heretic Astrates

Hope it's ok to post a list in here... this is what I'm looking at currently, mostly to make use of my vast amount of Nurgle Daemons:

Nurgle

Battalion detachment x2: Chaos Daemons

Winged Daemon Prince Of Chaos: Malefic Talons 180

Winged Daemon Prince Of Chaos: Malefic Talons 180

Herald Of Nurgle 70

Herald Of Nurgle 70

Epidemius 100

30 Plaguebearers: Daemonic Icon; Instrument of Chaos 235

30 Plaguebearers: Daemonic Icon; Instrument of Chaos 235

12 Plaguebearers: Instrument of Chaos 94

3 Nurglings 60

3 Nurglings 60

3 Nurglings 60

Outrider detachment: Heretic Astartes

Winged Daemon Prince Of Chaos: Malefic Talons 180

Foetid Bloat-Drone 158

Foetid Bloat-Drone 158

Foetid Bloat-Drone 158

1,998 points

Not really a bleeding edge tournament list, but I think it seems pretty strong overall. Any thoughts (keeping in mind I've barely played since 6th edition)?

 kodos wrote:
yeah wrong wording, as you will play it as Chaos Detachment
I forgot that CSM as now the name and not Heretic Astrates

Chaos is not a detachment and does not receive objective secured, so this is still wrong.

You have these options for Chaos:

<Legion>
<Chaos Daemon>

to be Chaos Daemon every unit must have the CHAOS and DAEMON faction, but CHAOS is not a valid faction for objective secured.