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 Cephalobeard wrote:
The Reece salt is real, for sure. The very notion of TO's and such "Defining Fun" to me is the most dangerous thing I've seen yet. Don't tell people whats fun, don't tell them what isn't fun, let them have fun and decide themselves.

To be fair, however, people are decrying Assassin Spam, Reece included.

People have a bias. They're not hiding it well.

I mostly just hate when a panic-fix is really extreme. I was running three Malefic Lords, converted to look like Cenobites because my whole army theme in Slaanesh "Lament Configuration", so to prevent someone from running 13 Malefic Lords, suddenly we can only take 1? That's really a big swing to make and disproportionately hurts one army.

It reminds of me an ITC GT I went to right after Ghost Keels were released, where they panic-fixed their once-per-game holoshield. It didn't even prove a blip competitively, but the same event was over-run with Space Marine combo-abuse that no one batted an eye at.

Previews are out. Can't wait for the Daemon pts/rules to leak any time soon

If the purpose of your nerf is to limit a single unit, why even beat around the bush with limiting all other forgeworld stuff? Don't pretend you're trying to be some fair magnanimous organization, if one unit is the problem just target the one problem. You'll get no fewer complaints and less problems.

This is kind of tradition for 40k
you never just limit the one unit that is a problem but use the nerf hammer for everything of the same type

malefic lords are a problem?
max 2 HQ slots for everyone, problem solved

argument is, that 40k balance is fine and it would be too much work to make an individual list for all factions

No GUO either as predicted



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DG DP has DR.
Nurglings are 18 pts now.
Beast of nurgle makes opponents who fall back roll a D6. on 4+ they suffer a mortal wound. Also 5 wounds now. Same pts though so I don't think it is enough. At 28 they'd be much more reasonable
Plague Drones. 34 pts a model(down from 44). 4 wounds now. WOW that's really good.
Plaguebearers are the same.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Motarion has really good things going for him.
He seems to destroy hordes, killing about 30 horde units a turn not counting morale.
Also he can kill big stuff even easier than magnus.
AND he pulses mortal wounds every turn.
AND he removes toughness.
Bastard has 5 weapons to choose from:
Pistol with "beam"(can hit mutiple units) 1, S8, -3, 3
Grenade 2D6, S5, -1, 1
Nurglings like always D6, S2, 0, 1,
Silence has 2 modes:
anti big stuff: S user x2, -4, D6
anti horde 3x for every attack, S user, -2, 1
Re-roll 1s to hit for deathguard(like magnus but no fail save re-roll)
Psychic: knows 3 contagion, deny 3, casts 2. Can't take warp time :(

Mathammer wise he is a bit worse than Magnus on paper due to not casting warptime. His damage is better though and he can take on hordes as well as big dudes so he is waaaay more versatile.. Also the -1T aura and the pulsating 3 mortal wounds are hard to judge.


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Made a Nurgle Daemon only fluff list:

Batallion:
Wings Claws DP
Herald
30 Plaguebearers instrument
3 nurglings
3 nurglings
3 plague drones
3 plague drones

Supreme Command:
Malefic Lord
Epidemius
GUO

Superheavy:
Mortarion

Exactly 2k pts 7cp

edit: whoops, +2 baleflamer heldrakes too

Ooh. Plague drones got a point drop And an extra wound.

Plague Drones are going to make a REALLY nice screening unit. Kinda analogous to what you'd want Flesh Hounds to do--move forward quickly, tie stuff up in combat, be competent enough to not get trashed by non-CC units. Far more durable for their cost, solid speed. Not super great at close combat owing to their hitting on a 4+ and not having AP modifiers for their attacks, but they should wound reliably and the mount attacks are damage 2. Seems like they'd be great to advance up the field and hide Daemon Princes behind them, where the DP's can help buff the Drones.

I just used Uraka the Warfiend. I summoned him by my CSM Champion and he is just a monster born for chopping terminators or bosses. I don't know how to build a full Daemons army around him but as a support caracter, is just wow.

 hellpato wrote:
I just used Uraka the Warfiend. I summoned him by my CSM Champion and he is just a monster born for chopping terminators or bosses. I don't know how to build a full Daemons army around him but as a support caracter, is just wow.

Good to know. He's a model I love but never manage to use.


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.. So you can really stack up Possessed these days.. silly but...
Fabius +
Putrescent Vitality +
Nurgle herald +
Epidemus.

Could get them really stacked. S8 T7 haha

This book is going to make a few changes in my army.

I'm going to bring more plague drones. They are simply to good not to bring for 34 points a pop. That's 8.5 points per wound. I own 21 of the things, and for only 714 points, it's tempting to bring them. I will be bringing at least 14 of them now.

18 points for nurglings is really sweet. In the DG codex, they also have plague weapons, which makes me wonder if they can be buffed as other plague weapons are. Nurglings rerolling to wounds gets much better.

Heralds still suck. They are only good for nurglings, as before. It's a shame, as I'm sitting on 7 of them, and I just can't use them.

The DG princes look good. I like that they get DR. I'll probably be swapping my princes for DG ones. The idea of a warlord with a 2+ and 4+ DR is really appealing.

I'll probably try something like this out to see how it does.
* 4 DPs with dual claws + wings (assuming DG get a erratta for wing costs)
* 2 squads of 30 plaguebearers w/instruments
* 3 squads of 7 plague drones w/instruments
* 4 Malific Lords (to sit in plaguebearer squads to keep things away from them)






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Sokhar wrote:
Plague Drones are going to make a REALLY nice screening unit. Kinda analogous to what you'd want Flesh Hounds to do--move forward quickly, tie stuff up in combat, be competent enough to not get trashed by non-CC units. Far more durable for their cost, solid speed. Not super great at close combat owing to their hitting on a 4+ and not having AP modifiers for their attacks, but they should wound reliably and the mount attacks are damage 2. Seems like they'd be great to advance up the field and hide Daemon Princes behind them, where the DP's can help buff the Drones.

I've been using plague drones since 8th dropped. They work great if you have a DP with them.

The lack of AP on their attacks seems like a bad thing, but you need to realize that they have 5 attacks per model. If you have a DP near them, they are hitting on a 4+ rerolling 1s, which gives them a 58% of hitting, which is not bad.

They really shine when attacking vehicles, like rhinos or storm ravens. This is because you can cast Virulent Blessing from the DP onto the plague drones. This greatly amplifies the damage done to vehicles, as shown by the mathhammer example below.
You have 7 plague drones that assault a storm raven, which a DP also getting into the action.
* The bearers have 8 attacks. They hit with 4.64 of them.
* The drones have 24 attacks and hit with 16.24 of them.
* The plague bearers are wounding on 5s, rerolling failed wound. The reroll will wound on 4s. That's 1.54 wounds on the first round, with 1.55 more on the reroll. Any 6s rolled do double wounds, or 2 wounds each. Since you rolled ~6.18 dice, it's likely you will get at least 1 six.
* The drones are the same ratio, just with 3* the number of attacks. That's 9.27 more wounds, this time doing 2 damage each. Any of those that rolled a six (which you can expect about 3 of them), will do 4 damage each!
Sure, the storm raven is saving 2/3 of them. You can expect 1-2 wounds done with the plague bearers, and ~8 more wounds done from the drones. Add the daemon prince's claws to the mix, and you will either have a wrecked raven or severely damaged one.

There are other tricks you can do with plague drones as well. Since they fly, if you rolled high enough you can fly over the models in assault to surround a unit. I've used this on more than one occasion to block enemy movement. You can leave combat and shoot your death's heads. (not much damage, but i've done this before) The large bases one drones also gives you a lot of board control.

At 44 points, I thought they were just a bit overpriced and underwhelming, but I still brought 7 of them in my list. At 34 points with 4 wounds, they are MUCH better at their job.

What do you think of my Nurgle Daemon list?


Simple strategy, charge turn 1 with drakes and mortarion(if possible), maybe spam the 3CP DG mortal wound explosion and rack up the tally for Epidemius ASAP.

Did Malefic Lords get nerfed now?
All this rumor-mumor confuses me to hard.
I play like it was, until FAQ is out or something.

 DortmundOutpost wrote:
Did Malefic Lords get nerfed now?
All this rumor-mumor confuses me to hard.
I play like it was, until FAQ is out or something.

No... but every one of us expects it to happen soon. Also, a few of us are going to a GT where the rumor is that one of the event organizers is adamant about making a stealth Malefic Lord semi-ban (one FW model of a given type per list maximum), even though even the ITC hasn't made such a call (and it does nothing about Imperium's Astropaths, etc...)

One FW Model of any given type is kind of crazy.

Lords are bad, certainly, but not "nerf all other FW" bad.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
One FW Model of any given type is kind of crazy.

Lords are bad, certainly, but not "nerf all other FW" bad.

The problem is that about 5%-10% of FW stuff is just bonkers and could not balance it's way out of a wet paper bag.
It's that small percentage that gives FW such a bad name.

If people took the non-broken FW stuff more often, then FW would be more accepted.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
One FW Model of any given type is kind of crazy.

Lords are bad, certainly, but not "nerf all other FW" bad.

That's what I argued to the TO, but he says half his people are telling him to outright ban FW (a kind of "competitive gamer i'll never understand is the... spend $1000s on their army, then cry if someone bought one FW model). He thinks its a credible compromise... but I don't know... the ITC isn't the be all end all, but they get things right far more than not, and if they aren't talking a similar ban, I don't know why this event would.

I'm glad Connecticut has a, in general, take all, come all approach to 40k. Everyone brings whatever. Hardly see complaints.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm glad Connecticut has a, in general, take all, come all approach to 40k. Everyone brings whatever. Hardly see complaints.

Where do you game, man? I'm from NY, only about forty minutes from Danbury. Shoot me a PM.

Plague Drones so hot right now.
Plague Drones.

If Beasts get swanky new models I will probably play them too, even though they aren't the best.
The buff they got is nice but they still need more.

Sure would be nice if they'd ever give Nurgle Heralds the option to ride a fly, particularly in light of how good Plague Drones have become.

I am really curious to know how Nurgle daemon lists fare well in this heavy shooting environment. Can a nurgle daemon list player explain to me how you don't get shot off the board? Its not about getting off a turn 1 charge right?

Say you are facing a imperium list with heavy shooting, bubble wrapped with cheap conscripts or infantry. How does a nurgle daemon list approach such a gunline?

Looking at how improved Plague Drones have become (now at a whopping 8.5 pts/wound on a T5 5++/DR model), how much of an argument is there left to be made for Giant Chaos Spawn if you're not going Tzeentch? Spawn bring a slightly better ratio of wounds and have a 4+ armor save, the same T5, Invul, and Disgustingly Resilient as the Drones, and actually have an AP modifier on their attacks (albeit only -1). But Plague Drones have reliable stats, are faster at a stock 10" move (and the ability to carry an Instrument), have re-rolls on their wound rolls, AND a shooting attack.

We all fell in love with Giant Chaos Spawn because they're a giant bucket of stats, but Drones aren't far off anymore, and have a number of advantages Spawn do not. Certainly obtaining models for them is vastly easier as well. Is it still worth having to roll all those dice for their random stats, hoping the Spawn regenerates and grows wounds?

Whelp, time to wait for chapter aproved for me to field Khorne/Slaanesh on the table

Is there a release schedule for future Codexes?

Eldenfirefly wrote:
I am really curious to know how Nurgle daemon lists fare well in this heavy shooting environment. Can a nurgle daemon list player explain to me how you don't get shot off the board? Its not about getting off a turn 1 charge right?

Say you are facing a imperium list with heavy shooting, bubble wrapped with cheap conscripts or infantry. How does a nurgle daemon list approach such a gunline?

You weather the storm and play for the objectives.

Plague bearers are very durable for 7ppm. Try a squad of 30 of them out and see how they do.

Quick question as I haven't run them yet, but how are Flamers in minimum size units?

I suddenly have to change a list for an upcoming tournament, and have an awkward 90pts to play with (formerly three Malefic Lords)

I've been eyeballing the Start Collecting: Daemons of Slaanesh box for a little while now, but I'm wondering if it's worth it as it seems like most Slaanesh stuff is just way too squishy. Daemonettes seem good at 7 points a model but you probably need a ton of them, and ditto with Seekers. At least Seekers are as fast as Bikes so they have a better chance of connecting in melee, but T3 really hurts. I'm not sure about the chariot variants; they are cool looking but reading the stats from the index again they seem extremely fragile even if they are cheap. Maybe a regular Herald on Seeker Chariot could be okay as it can still hide since it has less than 10 wounds, but I'm not sure there's much point in taking a Chariot rather than a Steed for a Herald.

Daemonettes are now completelly not viable. If you place them on the table - they are too slow and get shot off the board.
If you summon them, you will always do better summoning Bloodletters instead which is the main problem. Bloodletters cost the same as Daemonettes and are pretty much strictly better

Eldenfirefly wrote:
I am really curious to know how Nurgle daemon lists fare well in this heavy shooting environment. Can a nurgle daemon list player explain to me how you don't get shot off the board? Its not about getting off a turn 1 charge right?

Say you are facing a imperium list with heavy shooting, bubble wrapped with cheap conscripts or infantry. How does a nurgle daemon list approach such a gunline?

Tonight will be my second Nurgle list, and my first 100% nurgle list. Previous one had some R&H artillery, which was nice, but didn't change the game too much.

I'm trying epidemius, 30pb, 3x3 nurglings and a grip of nurgle daemon engines, as well as scabbie. It was suggested by another player who has had a blast with it. I considered bringing a herald to summon scabbie with, but I think I would rather have him draw fire away from the defiler, plague hulk, decimator and other scary stuff.

As soon as the point adjustment for Drones is out, I'll be running the 12 of them I have. I am a little bummed they dont get the -1 to hit when in large groups like PB and pox riders get. On the subject, pox riders have treated me well, but with the changes to drones, I'll have to revisit and see if the riders are even worth it.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Quick question as I haven't run them yet, but how are Flamers in minimum size units?

Super squishy, but you can hide them easily as they can fly, and your opponent usually will have to dedicate a unit to wipe them off, meaning a disproportionate amount of fire going their way.

I find that Exalted Flamers are better because they can hide behind horrors.