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Trancefate wrote: Hello, first post here. I read all 42 pages and appreciate the information! I am a brand new player who started buying and building a few weeks ago. I've watched a couple games and have a (very) basic grasp of the rules, and have now made my first 1,000 point army list. I own nurgle/tzeentch at the moment.
Any critique given the tools available or suggested additions to a new chaos daemon army I would be glad to hear about. I'm still trying to figure out what extra books I need to get other than index: chaos and the rulebook which I already have.
I have 75 points left over for brimstone horror splitting. Note that I only own 5 more brimstones than I have active in the army (and a lot of pinks that I am being told are sadly trash) so I will be recycling some on death, this is part of the reason for the 5/5 unit makeup.
Models I have available that are not included: More (25 or so pink and 10 blue) horrors, herald of tzeentch on chariot, 9 flamers, 3x nurglings, 3x plague drones, 10-20 more plaguebearers. -- I also have some models in the mail that should be here within a couple weeks, 2x exalted flamers on chariot, more plaguebearers, 10 man 1k suns warpflamer squad, a couple more heralds of tzeentch and 2 daemon princes.
I'll be trying it out this week/weekend hopefully, still need to learn about mission types and special command point rules etc.
So:
- I would read about Maleific Lords and add them to army in Supreme Command Detachment
- I would cut the Herald out of detachment and summon several heralds with malefic lords and smite
- I would add a Changeling with boon of change
- I would field 1xblue/9 brim horror squads (and protect them with changeling to shield malefic lords and other characters), as blues are useless kind of, but pinks are more
- I would not give tzeentch DP boon of change, but bolt of change or treason - 90% of the time you will use smite anyway. You can cast boon of change with the changeling on the DP - I would maybe add nurglings to protect DZ or forward place them
- I would summon plaguebearers
- I would summon Bloodletters
- I would add exalted flamers
- I dont like Rubric Marines, the feel wiered
- I would buy Belakor and add him to my Army
- Look at Obliterators
This all depends on playstyle.
I feel this mass of Horrors and 30 Plaguebearers is a little overkill.
You should maybe play a lot of games in the beginning, you will get a feeling what works and what really is not good.
What are people's thoughts of tzeentch flamers and exalted flamers? I initially shyed away from fielding them, because I didn't like the models, but I've now found a possible counts-as that might work so thought I'd ask what they're like on the table!
Niiru wrote: What are people's thoughts of tzeentch flamers and exalted flamers? I initially shyed away from fielding them, because I didn't like the models, but I've now found a possible counts-as that might work so thought I'd ask what they're like on the table!
you mean flamers compared to exalted flamers?
Or both units by itself?
Here again, the oppinions are divided.
I think Flamers are not worth to play, against some armies they might.
I prefer exalted flamers.
Though i never tried to play mass flamers.
Well, both really. I have found a model that would work for in place of normal flamers, but the exalted flamer is a pretty wierd size (cavalry base, I think) and so it's hard to find a suitable replacement for it.
If anyone happens to know of any cavalry-base sized models that might work, do let me know! It can even be a horse (or horselike) riding model, as the exalted flamer is a pretty fast unit, but I'm yet to find one that is using a weapon that could become "flamey".
Might try and find mounted mages perhaps, but they seem to be rare too. Most magic casters seem to prefer being on foot ha
Trancefate wrote: Hello, first post here. I read all 42 pages and appreciate the information! I am a brand new player who started buying and building a few weeks ago. I've watched a couple games and have a (very) basic grasp of the rules, and have now made my first 1,000 point army list. I own nurgle/tzeentch at the moment.
Any critique given the tools available or suggested additions to a new chaos daemon army I would be glad to hear about. I'm still trying to figure out what extra books I need to get other than index: chaos and the rulebook which I already have.
I have 75 points left over for brimstone horror splitting. Note that I only own 5 more brimstones than I have active in the army (and a lot of pinks that I am being told are sadly trash) so I will be recycling some on death, this is part of the reason for the 5/5 unit makeup.
Models I have available that are not included: More (25 or so pink and 10 blue) horrors, herald of tzeentch on chariot, 9 flamers, 3x nurglings, 3x plague drones, 10-20 more plaguebearers. -- I also have some models in the mail that should be here within a couple weeks, 2x exalted flamers on chariot, more plaguebearers, 10 man 1k suns warpflamer squad, a couple more heralds of tzeentch and 2 daemon princes.
I'll be trying it out this week/weekend hopefully, still need to learn about mission types and special command point rules etc.
So:
- I would read about Maleific Lords and add them to army in Supreme Command Detachment
- I would cut the Herald out of detachment and summon several heralds with malefic lords and smite
- I would add a Changeling with boon of change
- I would field 1xblue/9 brim horror squads (and protect them with changeling to shield malefic lords and other characters), as blues are useless kind of, but pinks are more
- I would not give tzeentch DP boon of change, but bolt of change or treason - 90% of the time you will use smite anyway. You can cast boon of change with the changeling on the DP - I would maybe add nurglings to protect DZ or forward place them
- I would summon plaguebearers
- I would summon Bloodletters
- I would add exalted flamers
- I dont like Rubric Marines, the feel wiered
- I would buy Belakor and add him to my Army
- Look at Obliterators
This all depends on playstyle.
I feel this mass of Horrors and 30 Plaguebearers is a little overkill.
You should maybe play a lot of games in the beginning, you will get a feeling what works and what really is not good.
Thanks a ton! I've done some revisions and received some units in the mail today, this is how I'm angling for a 1k Tzeentch list now:
its 1036 so if my opponent prefers im under 1k I can drop the flamers, add 1 brimstone to each squad, warp bolters to the DP's, and have enough to split the blues with 3 points left over.
Also, where do you BUY malefic lords? I had trouble locating models for them on GW site/ forgeworld or Ebay. I'm honestly not even sure where the rules for them are, or how they exist outside of chaos without a model.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/20 21:39:10
Also, where do you BUY malefic lords? I had trouble locating models for them on GW site/ forgeworld or Ebay. I'm honestly not even sure where the rules for them are, or how they exist outside of chaos without a model.
Don't believe there's an official model for it. Some people use FW's rogue psykers, personally I use Summoner of Tzeentch, Tzeentch Sorcerer and chaos sorcerer lord for the three I field.
Also, where do you BUY malefic lords? I had trouble locating models for them on GW site/ forgeworld or Ebay. I'm honestly not even sure where the rules for them are, or how they exist outside of chaos without a model.
Don't believe there's an official model for it. Some people use FW's rogue psykers, personally I use Summoner of Tzeentch, Tzeentch Sorcerer and chaos sorcerer lord for the three I field.
they belong to chaos as part of the renegade & heretics FW army.
there is no model.
many people use conversions or proxies.
the rules for them are in the fw index astra militarum.
send me PN!
and you should really get a changeling and Belakor...
and obliterators...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/21 14:03:35
I used these. Good little models, and they actually cost an amount of money so no one can be too terribly upset that I'm using a few of them, instead of cultists or something as some people do.
Trancefate wrote: Nice, i've ordered some from FW.... at 30 points each, is there any reason at all not to cram as many of these as I can reasonably fit in my army?
Also, buying changeling today, then holding off to decide what is next until I play some games.
is the 55 pound Giant Chaos Spawn from forgeworld the only model for this? I'm ready to buy a couple if it's the ONLY place to get them... lol
Main problem with Malefic Lords - incoming nerfhammer
There is, however, zero context on how the nerf will come out for them. Don't invest heavily in them, because there's no way to know how they're about to change.
Makes sense about the nerfhammer honestly, but they aren't a very costly unit so I ordered 6 of them just cause I like the way they look anyhow. Also kind of a cheap way for me to see how forgeworld models differ.
Regarding Mutalith as a replacement for Giant Chaos Spawn... I think at $85 I'll stick with the original model!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/21 16:57:44
Also, where do you BUY malefic lords? I had trouble locating models for them on GW site/ forgeworld or Ebay. I'm honestly not even sure where the rules for them are, or how they exist outside of chaos without a model.
Don't believe there's an official model for it. Some people use FW's rogue psykers, personally I use Summoner of Tzeentch, Tzeentch Sorcerer and chaos sorcerer lord for the three I field.
I use the Warhammer Chaos Knights in a few tournaments w/o issues... I've even got complimented as i painted them up as the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
Good to hear you ordered Lords or "rouge psykers"
There is really no knowledge about on how they will(?) get nerfed.
and you really CAN get a Belakor...he is simply amazing!
In my search for an alternative model for an exalted flamer, I have come across a couple options. I did also try and find a mounted mage/sorcerer of some sort, but was unable to find anything. Surpring, actually, even in the Age of Sigmar range, but all the mounted sorcerers were on giant dragons or something, and so were far too big.
The two I've found so far - Do you think they'd be ok on the tabletop, visually and size-wise?
The first seems closer to the right size, though I may add some flame to its "nozzle" haha
Edit: The first is a 50mm base size I think, according to the privateer site. I realise the scale is hard to figure out. NO idea on the base size of the elemental, but that photo shows it next to what I assume is a 28mm base model.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/21 22:21:23
Cephalobeard wrote: Not really. Neither of them says "Exalted Flamer" to keep, at all.
Hmm, shame. To be honest, the official model doesn't say "exalted flamer" to me either. It says... I'm holding out my long arms and holding on to some spikey stuff. Not a good model.
Took a trip to the local GW store today before I made my forgeworld order. Ended up grabbing a couple Vampire Counts Necromancers as my Malefic Lords, ordered the rest on e-bay. I think they look pretty nice for it.
Bought a changeling as well The list I will be playing this weekend is now between these two, only differences are 10pink/5brimstone squads & 2 demon princes vs 9brimstone/1blue squads and 3 demon princes. Wasn't sure if I needed more screen but I made the squads pink if I did not only due to owned model limitations but also because I figured if I needed more points into screen (to make best use of changeling) they should at least be shooty.
Question about the Herald of Tzeentch on Burning Chariot.
The dataslate says that the "model may be accompanied by 3 blue horrors", but doesn't say... anything else, really.
I assume these horrors ride the chariot with the herald, so they also move 14" a turn?
It doesn't seem to increase the power level of the unit, so they seem to be a free upgrade for PL games, but in normal points games would you pay the extra for the 3x blues?
And so, if you're paying points for them, making them actual blues on the chariot, does that mean you get 3 extra attacks? As well as 3 ablative wounds, as the blues would also be killable as part of the "unit". In which case, when they die wouldn't they also have the option to split into brimstones?
I just can't see any reason why any of this isn't the case... which would make the tzeentch herald a bit more expensive, but pretty survivable.
Niiru wrote: Question about the Herald of Tzeentch on Burning Chariot.
The dataslate says that the "model may be accompanied by 3 blue horrors", but doesn't say... anything else, really.
I assume these horrors ride the chariot with the herald, so they also move 14" a turn?
It doesn't seem to increase the power level of the unit, so they seem to be a free upgrade for PL games, but in normal points games would you pay the extra for the 3x blues?
And so, if you're paying points for them, making them actual blues on the chariot, does that mean you get 3 extra attacks? As well as 3 ablative wounds, as the blues would also be killable as part of the "unit". In which case, when they die wouldn't they also have the option to split into brimstones?
I just can't see any reason why any of this isn't the case... which would make the tzeentch herald a bit more expensive, but pretty survivable.
Niiru wrote: Question about the Herald of Tzeentch on Burning Chariot.
The dataslate says that the "model may be accompanied by 3 blue horrors", but doesn't say... anything else, really.
I assume these horrors ride the chariot with the herald, so they also move 14" a turn?
It doesn't seem to increase the power level of the unit, so they seem to be a free upgrade for PL games, but in normal points games would you pay the extra for the 3x blues?
And so, if you're paying points for them, making them actual blues on the chariot, does that mean you get 3 extra attacks? As well as 3 ablative wounds, as the blues would also be killable as part of the "unit". In which case, when they die wouldn't they also have the option to split into brimstones?
I just can't see any reason why any of this isn't the case... which would make the tzeentch herald a bit more expensive, but pretty survivable.
It's a huge unanswered question, I believe.
Oh haha, well. I'd never seen anyone ask it before, which is why I asked as I thought it might be an obvious yes/no. Do people just not play the heralds much, and so it doesn't come up?
Be'Lakor is just not as good as a DP in a Daemon army. That's it. Costs too much, has powers you can't cast neither on him nor the Daemon army. Nothing more to say. I thought he was good too, but then I actually tried making lists and he's nowhere to be seen, while at least 1 DP is in every list
Automatically Appended Next Post: The Burning Chariot thing is really simple. The 3 blue horrors is just a passive upgrade(-1 to casts) that costs 3x5(blue horror pts cost). That's it. They don't do anything else. They don't smite, they don't punch.
If anyone tells you otherwise, they are really really stupid.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/22 02:54:43
The list I will be playing this weekend is now between these two, only differences are 10pink/5brimstone squads & 2 demon princes vs 9brimstone/1blue squads and 3 demon princes. Wasn't sure if I needed more screen but I made the squads pink if I did not only due to owned model limitations but also because I figured if I needed more points into screen (to make best use of changeling) they should at least be shooty.