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Trancefate wrote: I'm curious how you guys feel about deepstriking Plaguebearers.
My current list is something like
nurgle batallion 30x Plagues 9x nurglings, a herald, a sloppity bilepiper
tzeentch batallion 30x pinks, 2x 10 brims, changeling, herald, daemon prince, some mixture of flamers/exalted flamers
Magnus in auxilliary.
Initial plan was to footslog plaguebearers and deepstrike the tzeentch batallion HOWEVER, it is considerably less costly in CP if I were to deepstrike the nurgle bat, and footslog the pinks.
Another option I toyed with was dropping Magnus and running 1-2 more daemon princes of nurgle or tzeentch to deepstrike in or perhaps 30 more plaguebearers (30 more pinks aren't an option as I don't own 60) with whichever detatchment I chose.
Thoughts?
Worth pointing out x20 of any daemon troops is PL8 which allows you to use "Denizens of the Warp" for 1CP. Dropping 60 troops as 3 x20 is 3CP vs 2 x30 for 4CP. Also less costly to fill out a battalion detachment with 60 troops instead of 90.
Daemon Prince without wings comes in at PL8 as well.
I think Pink Horrors are the safest thing to use "Denizens of the Warp" on as you can just shoot and not have to worry about making the 9+/10+ charge roll like Khorne/Nurgle/Slaanesh does. Even at 20 you still get the extra shot for the size bonus. Put a herald next to 20 pinks and that is 60 S4 shots from 1 group of Pinks. Nothing to sneeze at.
Trancefate wrote: I'm curious how you guys feel about deepstriking Plaguebearers.
My current list is something like
nurgle batallion 30x Plagues 9x nurglings, a herald, a sloppity bilepiper
tzeentch batallion 30x pinks, 2x 10 brims, changeling, herald, daemon prince, some mixture of flamers/exalted flamers
Magnus in auxilliary.
Initial plan was to footslog plaguebearers and deepstrike the tzeentch batallion HOWEVER, it is considerably less costly in CP if I were to deepstrike the nurgle bat, and footslog the pinks.
Another option I toyed with was dropping Magnus and running 1-2 more daemon princes of nurgle or tzeentch to deepstrike in or perhaps 30 more plaguebearers (30 more pinks aren't an option as I don't own 60) with whichever detatchment I chose.
Thoughts?
Worth pointing out x20 of any daemon troops is PL8 which allows you to use "Denizens of the Warp" for 1CP. Dropping 60 troops as 3 x20 is 3CP vs 2 x30 for 4CP. Also less costly to fill out a battalion detachment with 60 troops instead of 90.
Daemon Prince without wings comes in at PL8 as well.
I think Pink Horrors are the safest thing to use "Denizens of the Warp" on as you can just shoot and not have to worry about making the 9+/10+ charge roll like Khorne/Nurgle/Slaanesh does. Even at 20 you still get the extra shot for the size bonus. Put a herald next to 20 pinks and that is 60 S4 shots from 1 group of Pinks. Nothing to sneeze at.
Good points, I guess I need to spend some more time thinking about that. I guess the question would be is one round of firing enough, am I okay with losing 1/3 of my shooting after a single wound to save CP? Definitely with plaguebearers i think I drop in 20 man squads, not sure about pinks yet. One thing that helps make my decision is the fact that I only own 35 pinks I suppose.
Also, how are they at killing MEQ, still laughably bad?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/23 03:50:44
Good points, I guess I need to spend some more time thinking about that. I guess the question would be is one round of firing enough, am I okay with losing 1/3 of my shooting after a single wound to save CP? Definitely with plaguebearers i think I drop in 20 man squads, not sure about pinks yet. One thing that helps make my decision is the fact that I only own 35 pinks I suppose.
Also, how are they at killing MEQ, still laughably bad?
Yes it's worth one turn of good shooting. Odds are if you have 30 man squads it won't take much for your opponent to kill whst are effectively 7 or guards men as far as durability is concerned (more or less).
The horrors and flamers are pretty close for MEQ kills so they actually do quite well.
Good points, I guess I need to spend some more time thinking about that. I guess the question would be is one round of firing enough, am I okay with losing 1/3 of my shooting after a single wound to save CP? Definitely with plaguebearers i think I drop in 20 man squads, not sure about pinks yet. One thing that helps make my decision is the fact that I only own 35 pinks I suppose.
Also, how are they at killing MEQ, still laughably bad?
Yes it's worth one turn of good shooting. Odds are if you have 30 man squads it won't take much for your opponent to kill whst are effectively 7 or guards men as far as durability is concerned (more or less).
The horrors and flamers are pretty close for MEQ kills so they actually do quite well.
Ditto. I doubt those horrors 30 or 20, on your next turn will be above >=20 for that extra shot.
So as I am starting a Slaanesh army and this is the list I have come up with. I don't play in a hyper-competitive group and I try to keep my squads at Slaanesh's sacred number. I just thought I would see what people think of the list.
ArmchairArbiter wrote: So as I am starting a Slaanesh army and this is the list I have come up with. I don't play in a hyper-competitive group and I try to keep my squads at Slaanesh's sacred number. I just thought I would see what people think of the list.
Seekers: Instrument of Chaos
Heartseeker: Piercing claws
Steed of Slaanesh: Lashing tongue
11x Seeker: 11x Piercing claws
11x Steed of Slaanesh: 11x Lashing tongue
Seekers: Instrument of Chaos
Heartseeker: Piercing claws
Steed of Slaanesh: Lashing tongue
11x Seeker: 11x Piercing claws
11x Steed of Slaanesh: 11x Lashing tongue
+ Heavy Support +
Exalted Seeker Chariot
3x Daemonette Charioteers: 3x Piercing claws
Exalted Alluress: Lashes of Torment
Steeds of Slaanesh: Lashing tongues
Thats a lot of models for just starting lol. Something I would suggest, maybe make the masque your warlord? Fatal caress is OK, but the murder dance adds d3 attacks and the masque can always retreat from combat and still charge in meaning unless she is surrounded your always getting d3 extra attacks, or 6-8 attacks. For 78 pts, how can you say no?
ArmchairArbiter wrote: So as I am starting a Slaanesh army and this is the list I have come up with. I don't play in a hyper-competitive group and I try to keep my squads at Slaanesh's sacred number. I just thought I would see what people think of the list.
Seekers: Instrument of Chaos
Heartseeker: Piercing claws
Steed of Slaanesh: Lashing tongue
11x Seeker: 11x Piercing claws
11x Steed of Slaanesh: 11x Lashing tongue
Seekers: Instrument of Chaos
Heartseeker: Piercing claws
Steed of Slaanesh: Lashing tongue
11x Seeker: 11x Piercing claws
11x Steed of Slaanesh: 11x Lashing tongue
+ Heavy Support +
Exalted Seeker Chariot
3x Daemonette Charioteers: 3x Piercing claws
Exalted Alluress: Lashes of Torment
Steeds of Slaanesh: Lashing tongues
I wouldn't give your Warlord Fatal Caress. As that warlord trait works better with double Malefic Talons + Mark of Excess. You will get better results with the Murderdance or Savage Hedonist if you want to use Soulstealer.
For your battalion, you need larger size daemonette unit. 12 size squads are easy to mow down with bolter fire or flamers. Even in combat 12 daemonettes aren't that scary. 48 total daemonettes doesn't warrant investing in 3 Heralds of Slaanesh and the Masque. I would just drop the Exalted Seeker Chariot and bump up the daemonette squads to 18 if you want to be divisable by 6.
Chariots are also very fragile for their point cost. If you do not deep strike the chariots there is a good chance they will never make it into combat. Your opponent will have anti-vehicle guns and the chariots are the only worthwhile targets.
Slaanesh daemons have little defense or survivability. You just need to toss bodies at your enemy and hope they can't shoot them all. Basing enemy units prevents them from shooting next round which buys you time to get most units in charge range.
ArmchairArbiter wrote: So as I am starting a Slaanesh army and this is the list I have come up with. I don't play in a hyper-competitive group and I try to keep my squads at Slaanesh's sacred number. I just thought I would see what people think of the list.
Seekers: Instrument of Chaos
Heartseeker: Piercing claws
Steed of Slaanesh: Lashing tongue
11x Seeker: 11x Piercing claws
11x Steed of Slaanesh: 11x Lashing tongue
Seekers: Instrument of Chaos
Heartseeker: Piercing claws
Steed of Slaanesh: Lashing tongue
11x Seeker: 11x Piercing claws
11x Steed of Slaanesh: 11x Lashing tongue
+ Heavy Support +
Exalted Seeker Chariot
3x Daemonette Charioteers: 3x Piercing claws
Exalted Alluress: Lashes of Torment
Steeds of Slaanesh: Lashing tongues
Thats a lot of models for just starting lol. Something I would suggest, maybe make the masque your warlord? Fatal caress is OK, but the murder dance adds d3 attacks and the masque can always retreat from combat and still charge in meaning unless she is surrounded your always getting d3 extra attacks, or 6-8 attacks. For 78 pts, how can you say no?
Slaanesh Heralds are too fragile to be in combat. They are more useful just providing buffs to nearby Slaanesh daemons. Even at 6-8 attacks, the Masque is till S3 AP-2 D2. You can have a Daemon Prince with two talons for 8-10 attacks at S7 AP-2 D2.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/01/23 05:44:53
Lou_Cypher wrote: Well, what was actually super-nerfed other than Deepstriking Magnus/Morty?
Obliterators could Deepstrike already. Warp Talons could Deepstrike already.
Warp Surge? Thousand Sons could Weaver something for similar.
Other Stratagems? Most of them were best used by the OG Daemons Factions anyway.
And yet all the auras and locuses still affect anything with Keyword Daemon too. It's a loss, but not that harsh. Maybe unfair considering Imperial Soup, but we're not neutered yet.
Loci of Wrath, Fecundity, and Conjuration don’t affect CSM Daemon units. Not so bad on the first, CSM have a lot of access to re-roll auras. The second is a minor annoyance - the DG Drones were the big beneficiaries there, but they’re already pretty tough. The third is a disappointing blow to anyone who was looking forwards to having a bunch of radical 90s dude sorcerers kickflipping their Discs of Tzeentch to do gnarly spells. Bogus :(
This is not true. Where does it come from that loci don’t affect CSM Daemons? It was not answered in the FAQ and as I recal it was not FAQed for Epidemius in the index. So Loci work with any daemon having the same keywords as the loci demands.
Good points, I guess I need to spend some more time thinking about that. I guess the question would be is one round of firing enough, am I okay with losing 1/3 of my shooting after a single wound to save CP? Definitely with plaguebearers i think I drop in 20 man squads, not sure about pinks yet. One thing that helps make my decision is the fact that I only own 35 pinks I suppose.
Also, how are they at killing MEQ, still laughably bad?
Yes it's worth one turn of good shooting. Odds are if you have 30 man squads it won't take much for your opponent to kill whst are effectively 7 or guards men as far as durability is concerned (more or less).
The horrors and flamers are pretty close for MEQ kills so they actually do quite well.
Ditto. I doubt those horrors 30 or 20, on your next turn will be above >=20 for that extra shot.
With splits reserved it could be a pain though making it a very undesirable target. Of course you're gonna have to be an donkey-cave while resolving saves one or two saves at a time. For 130 points extra your group will be able to sustain a minimum of 50 wounds (before saves) before going below 20.
Though you'll likely more shots off just going with 2 groups of 20 for nearly the same point and CP price. I guess splitting is still in a weird place :(
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/23 07:26:13
I wouldn't give your Warlord Fatal Caress. As that warlord trait works better with double Malefic Talons + Mark of Excess. You will get better results with the Murderdance or Savage Hedonist if you want to use Soulstealer.
For your battalion, you need larger size daemonette unit. 12 size squads are easy to mow down with bolter fire or flamers. Even in combat 12 daemonettes aren't that scary. 48 total daemonettes doesn't warrant investing in 3 Heralds of Slaanesh and the Masque. I would just drop the Exalted Seeker Chariot and bump up the daemonette squads to 18 if you want to be divisable by 6.
Chariots are also very fragile for their point cost. If you do not deep strike the chariots there is a good chance they will never make it into combat. Your opponent will have anti-vehicle guns and the chariots are the only worthwhile targets.
Slaanesh daemons have little defense or survivability. You just need to toss bodies at your enemy and hope they can't shoot them all. Basing enemy units prevents them from shooting next round which buys you time to get most units in charge range.
Good point about the Fatal Caress. Though I do just like the sound of the trait.. lol. At the moment 50 Daemonettes is all I will have so that's where my limit is . Otherwise I would probably have them in larger squads. I will work on it. I could do 2-3 much larger squads but I was reading Daemonettes do well in MSU and really I just expect them to take some shots and cover for the characters and block DSing on me. Again, a fair point about the amount of heralds I have though. I suppose my idea was just aura saturation for the +1 strength on everything that has the Slaanesh daemons keyword. So the hellflayers + DPs and everything, to assure they have the buff. It's why I haven't included Fiends or anything though, which I would love to deep strike in. I don't have the models :( and they're sold out ATM.
I expect to get shot up plenty and lose quite a bit haha. It will be fun to narrow a strategy down, I really like the lore/story/theme of the mono-Slaanesh forces. We tend to play on boards with plenty of terrain though so I will have the opportunity to hide my units while running at my opponents.
Thats a lot of models for just starting lol. Something I would suggest, maybe make the masque your warlord? Fatal caress is OK, but the murder dance adds d3 attacks and the masque can always retreat from combat and still charge in meaning unless she is surrounded your always getting d3 extra attacks, or 6-8 attacks. For 78 pts, how can you say no?
It's amazing what you get with the starter boxes! Since you get Exalted Chariots I actually have a really healthy number of available chariots. I got 4 starter boxes . Ebay FTW.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/23 07:34:53
Lou_Cypher wrote: Well, what was actually super-nerfed other than Deepstriking Magnus/Morty?
Obliterators could Deepstrike already. Warp Talons could Deepstrike already.
Warp Surge? Thousand Sons could Weaver something for similar.
Other Stratagems? Most of them were best used by the OG Daemons Factions anyway.
And yet all the auras and locuses still affect anything with Keyword Daemon too. It's a loss, but not that harsh. Maybe unfair considering Imperial Soup, but we're not neutered yet.
Loci of Wrath, Fecundity, and Conjuration don’t affect CSM Daemon units. Not so bad on the first, CSM have a lot of access to re-roll auras. The second is a minor annoyance - the DG Drones were the big beneficiaries there, but they’re already pretty tough. The third is a disappointing blow to anyone who was looking forwards to having a bunch of radical 90s dude sorcerers kickflipping their Discs of Tzeentch to do gnarly spells. Bogus :(
This is not true. Where does it come from that loci don’t affect CSM Daemons? It was not answered in the FAQ and as I recal it was not FAQed for Epidemius in the index. So Loci work with any daemon having the same keywords as the loci demands.
These Loci are not the ones that are activated for the entire game by having a monolatrist CD detachment, which currently do affect any DAEMON of the right deity. These Loci are the ones that are activated for a brief window by activating Stratagems. The CD FAQ states ‘these Stratagems can only affect units with the DAEMON faction keyword’.
Good luck negotiating ‘the aura of re-rolling failed psychic tests is not an affect of the stratagem’. I’m not going to build any lists around it unless it’s against a very generous friend. It’s an odd inconsistency, but then I guess it makes sense that Discs don’t make their riders particularly better at harnessing the Warp. Not so much the other ones. But, given the continued lack of Legion Traits for the same units (CSM CAVALRY on Daemonic mounts), it’s probably going to remain a blind spot.
Lou_Cypher wrote: Well, what was actually super-nerfed other than Deepstriking Magnus/Morty?
Obliterators could Deepstrike already. Warp Talons could Deepstrike already.
Warp Surge? Thousand Sons could Weaver something for similar.
Other Stratagems? Most of them were best used by the OG Daemons Factions anyway.
And yet all the auras and locuses still affect anything with Keyword Daemon too. It's a loss, but not that harsh. Maybe unfair considering Imperial Soup, but we're not neutered yet.
Loci of Wrath, Fecundity, and Conjuration don’t affect CSM Daemon units. Not so bad on the first, CSM have a lot of access to re-roll auras. The second is a minor annoyance - the DG Drones were the big beneficiaries there, but they’re already pretty tough. The third is a disappointing blow to anyone who was looking forwards to having a bunch of radical 90s dude sorcerers kickflipping their Discs of Tzeentch to do gnarly spells. Bogus :(
I did not see that at all in the FAQ. CSM deamon characters don't radiate Loci of Wrath, Fecundity, and Conjuration but they are effected by the locus.
Chaos isn’t a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail, and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but refuse. They cling to the realm, or love, or the gods…illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is, but they’ll never know this. Not until it’s too late.
Auras are unaffected by this FAQ, so the Locus stratagems can't be cast on anything outside the Codex, but they should still effect anything with the correct keywords.
Whats the consensus on Bloodthirsters and Skarbrand right now? With the stratagem, they definitely look like they've got potential. Which one appears to be the least enticing? From what've I've seen, Skarbrand and the one with the Melta rules axe (Insensate Rage?) look to be the hard hitters.
Those are the only two I’d ever use, mostly just personal preference. And then, only along with/after tying things up with bloodletters. Re-roll charges doesn’t guarantee combat the same way a unit of bloodletters with a banner does, and any units behind the engaged fighters can still knock a thirster of rage down to a pathetic tier of stats (or kill him) before he does anything.
Skarbrand... man, if he wasn’t so expensive, I’d love to try him out. Buffing enemy attacks is unfortunate but fluffy as hell. “NAH, WEAKLINGS. NOBODY RUNS. EVERYONE FIGHTS.”
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/01/23 16:00:42
I am not a Khorne player but I think Skarbrand is a better pick from the standpoint if he can base some vehicles or a blob of troops, your opponent can't fall back. Any other Khrone units that can get into combat also can be shielded from shooting for your opponent's turn.
Skarbrand's rules have changed in the Codex: you can now fallback by rolling 3D6 under your leadership. So it is possible for things to fallback from him now. The fallback aura is also only three inches.
From how I see it: Skarbrand is the more offensive pickup and 2x20 Bloodletters units or more + him deep striking in on a flank would be terrifying. Bloodthirsters with Armor of Skorn + FnP Warlord Trait are the more defensive / supportive option that will most likely last longer. If you're going CSM + Daemons, I would go with the Bloodthirster. At least in my list I don't have multiple targetable monsters which would make the Bloodthirster a prime target. Mixed Daemons, I'd go with Skarbrand since you're most likely taking other big threats along with him that also can't be ignored.
I feel like skarbrand would actually be a better buff for daemonettes then bloodletters as daemonettes in 20+ get buffed to 4 attacks, masque makes enemy subtract 1 to hit, which can be stacked with spells. Hysterical frenzy means that a slaanesh unit can attack in the psychic phase with the same extra skarbrand attack, and slaanesh daemons have always strike first which somewhat mitigates buff the enemy gets.
operkoi wrote: I feel like skarbrand would actually be a better buff for daemonettes then bloodletters as daemonettes in 20+ get buffed to 4 attacks, masque makes enemy subtract 1 to hit, which can be stacked with spells. Hysterical frenzy means that a slaanesh unit can attack in the psychic phase with the same extra skarbrand attack, and slaanesh daemons have always strike first which somewhat mitigates buff the enemy gets.
Yeah that'll really show the enemy screen who's boss. I had the same stacking buffs idea with Skulltaker + Herald + Bloodletters, but at the end of the day your troop units are not tough enough to pump so many buffs into and expect a big enough return. I think throwing unbuffed units at the enemy lines until they crumble (which they will do almost instantly) will allow your bigger units access to the heart of the enemy.
operkoi wrote: I feel like skarbrand would actually be a better buff for daemonettes then bloodletters as daemonettes in 20+ get buffed to 4 attacks, masque makes enemy subtract 1 to hit, which can be stacked with spells. Hysterical frenzy means that a slaanesh unit can attack in the psychic phase with the same extra skarbrand attack, and slaanesh daemons have always strike first which somewhat mitigates buff the enemy gets.
Toss in a Slaanesh character for to use Locus of Grace stratagem. That is a lot of attacks.
Quick question. If i have a detachment of Khorne Daemons and a detachment of CSM can i only take relics from the faction that has my warlord in it? Also where in the rules is that if that is the case? Thank you.
Darksteve wrote: Quick question. If i have a detachment of Khorne Daemons and a detachment of CSM can i only take relics from the faction that has my warlord in it? Also where in the rules is that if that is the case? Thank you.
I asked this of Frontline Gaming: you can take one free relic from the detachment your warlord is in. HOWEVER, you can use the stratagem from the other detachment to give that other detachment 1 or 2 relics, spending CP to do so. SO in theory you can have 3 relics in your warlord detachment and 2 relics in your other detachment.
Loci are not faction specific like stratagems are. The mistake people are making in the counter point arguments is thinking DG are not CSM when they clearly are as they are faction Heretic Astartes.
The daemons in CSM are faction CHAOS DAEMON, and unless something weird goes down the characters in CHAOS DAEMON armies gain abilities that buff daemons of any kind due to their focused nature. (It says so right on page 124)
STRATAGEMS are specifically for battle forged detachments in keyword faction CHAOS DAEMONS. (It says so on page 126)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/23 21:53:24
sfshilo wrote: Loci are not faction specific like stratagems are. The mistake people are making in the counter point arguments is thinking DG are not CSM when they clearly are as they are faction Heretic Astartes.
The daemons in CSM are faction CHAOS DAEMON, and unless something weird goes down the characters in CHAOS DAEMON armies gain abilities that buff daemons of any kind due to their focused nature. (It says so right on page 124)
STRATAGEMS are specifically for battle forged detachments in keyword faction CHAOS DAEMONS. (It says so on page 126)
page 126 actually says "If your army is battleforged and contains any chaos deamons detachments (excluding auxiliary support detachments), you have access to the stratagems shown here, meaning you can spend command points to activate them."
My Chaos Space Marines showcase so far: 
For 130 points extra your group will be able to sustain a minimum of 50 wounds (before saves) before going below 20.
. Otherwise I would probably have them in larger squads. I will work on it. I could do 2-3 much larger squads but I was reading Daemonettes do well in 
. Ebay 
