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 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Hanskrampf wrote:

Spoiler:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
When you have 30" range guns, and you can deploy 12" inches into a 48" table, you can reach the other table edge with your guns after moving in turn 1 of the game.

they might be able to shoot across the board, but they will be spending the entire game walking to objectives.

Why are all the objectives in your opponent's deployment zone ?

Also, Inceptors.

Also, use Hellblasters instead of Intersessors and sit on one objective while blasting them off of another objective.

I'm currently building 6 units of Hellblasters, because nothing says DIE YOU FILTHY HERETICS quite like AP -4 plasma shots from from across the board.

Trust me, I am feeling you totally on the Hellblasters. They are basically exactly what I want out of a Marine. Too bad they aren't cheap, but they are still worth every point. Now if only GW didn't put that insufferable helmetless Sergeant in there...

Just swap his head? He doesn't have a helmet mag-locked to his belt like the other two helmetless models.

Edit: Do we have any information what is up for pre-order tomorrow?

Way ahead of you. I gave him a Mk IV helmet, which looks more or less the same as the Mk X helmet. I would rather have had his helmet maglocked to his belt so I could cut it off and put it where his head goes like I did with the other helmetless models.

I can't say I mind his head. You can easily swap it though. Once the proper squad of MkX guys is released we'll have plenty of spare bits for this kind of thing.

What I did do was to swap some helblaster and intercessor arms, so that I didn't have duplicate guys in either unit. I find it much more annoying that the squad has 2x the same 2 guys. It's pretty easy to do.

As for whether Primaris will be allowed to ride in other transports, I've got slightly mixed feelings. I've never liked rhinos. I've no objection to the models, but they seem woefully inadequate as a transport vehicle for an elite special forces unit. The Storm Raven is kind of what I think marines should be using as their transport all of the time.

On the other hand, the consensus tends to be that Storm Ravens are ugly as sin. If there was a new Primaris flying transport I don't think the Raven would be missed very much.

That said, Primaris could obviously fit inside a Land Raider, so it should be allowed to carry them. Hilariously, the FW Mastodon can't take them, though it can transport dreadnoughts. FW do allow Primaris inside their Thunderhawk and Stormbirds though - which I assume is because they've only just released them and would like to sell some!

Anyway I quite like the repulsor, and I do think it's a credible thing that futuristic super-special forces might ride around in. It's ugly - but tanks are ugly. Let's see what the rules are, and what else we get.

The chapter tactic looks great, if the other tactics are of the same standard I'll be pretty damn happy!

Dreadnoughts can also make use of chapter tactics! Woo!

Wow, that UM Chapter Tactic is rather good looking...

 JJ wrote:
The chapter tactic looks great, if the other tactics are of the same standard I'll be pretty damn happy!

Dreadnoughts can also make use of chapter tactics! Woo!

Well it works for every single Ultramarine unit. No more "blocking" UM vehicles - Predator/Land Raider can Fall Back and fire at will
Yay

Ok smurfs are just insanely good now with that chapter tactic

 danyboy wrote:

 JJ wrote:
The chapter tactic looks great, if the other tactics are of the same standard I'll be pretty damn happy!

Dreadnoughts can also make use of chapter tactics! Woo!

Well it works for every single Ultramarine unit. No more "blocking" UM vehicles - Predator/Land Raider can Fall Back and fire at will
Yay

like all Chapter Tactics, this will apply to your Infantry, Bikers and Dreadnoughts.

Still need to screen tanks.

But I like it.

Woah, that CT is crazy good.

I like the UM Chapter Tactics. They are strong, but not overpowering. I can only hope my Crimson Fists get something on level with this.

Man, I hope Black Templars can do something cool like not allow Falling Back.

That's incredible... and it's NOT a stratagem, it's always active? Wow.

 Nevelon wrote:

 danyboy wrote:

 JJ wrote:
The chapter tactic looks great, if the other tactics are of the same standard I'll be pretty damn happy!

Dreadnoughts can also make use of chapter tactics! Woo!

Well it works for every single Ultramarine unit. No more "blocking" UM vehicles - Predator/Land Raider can Fall Back and fire at will
Yay

like all Chapter Tactics, this will apply to your Infantry, Bikers and Dreadnoughts.

Still need to screen tanks.

But I like it.

Heh, you are right...

Crimson_ wrote:
Profile of the Redemptor and ultramarines chapter tactics on the community page. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/14/ultramarines-and-the-redemptor-dreadnought-first-lookgw-homepage-post-2/

Nowhere close to a leviathan rivaler. It's more like a Contemptor that trades Atomatic shielding for more weapon hardpoints.

From Warhammer Community post(https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/14/ultramarines-and-the-redemptor-dreadnought-first-lookgw-homepage-post-2/)

"...like all Chapter Tactics, this will apply to your Infantry, Bikers and Dreadnoughts. "

I suppose this means non-Dreadnought vehicles do not benefit from chapter tactics.
And I have been playing vehicle-heavy Iron Hands army all along......

And so the silliness begins. Can't say I'm anywhere near enthused by the Ultramarines chapter tactics "oh, hey we'll ignore this massively important component of the game rules".

Pretty tremendous power creep as expected. Shame.

 Elbows wrote:
And so the silliness begins. Can't say I'm anywhere near enthused by the Ultramarines chapter tactics "oh, hey we'll ignore this massively important component of the game rules".

Pretty tremendous power creep as expected. Shame.

Every army is going to get these. So it isn't really power creep when it happens across the board.

Sure. It's still a crap rule. As will most of the other ones. The stuff that made 7th borderline insufferable.

Sagittarii Orientalis wrote:
From Warhammer Community post(https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/14/ultramarines-and-the-redemptor-dreadnought-first-lookgw-homepage-post-2/)

"...like all Chapter Tactics, this will apply to your Infantry, Bikers and Dreadnoughts. "

I suppose this means non-Dreadnought vehicles do not benefit from chapter tactics.
And I have been playing vehicle-heavy Iron Hands army all along......

Remember that Iron Hands always had CT rule that affected every vehicle in their army. I'm pretty sure it will work in 8th ed too.
I just hope they write this rule properly this time

The rule per se is nothing amazing (it's half Fly keyword), the logic behind that however is pure nonsense since nobody will ever follow the same ruleset.

What's the purpose of Battleshock and CQC Disengage if nobody ever suffers from them?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I like the UM Chapter Tactics. They are strong, but not overpowering. I can only hope my Crimson Fists get something on level with this.

Man, I hope Black Templars can do something cool like not allow Falling Back.

If they get into combat, no morale, and if they arent in combat and have to take a morale test, they can move 2d6" to the closest enemy? Or an old style sweeping advanc,e except instead of killing the enemy it keeps them there and does d6 wounds. Can test agaist each others movement, maybe?

Thatd be pretty sweet.

 Crazyterran wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I like the UM Chapter Tactics. They are strong, but not overpowering. I can only hope my Crimson Fists get something on level with this.

Man, I hope Black Templars can do something cool like not allow Falling Back.

If they get into combat, no morale, and if they arent in combat and have to take a morale test, they can move 2d6" to the closest enemy? Or an old style sweeping advanc,e except instead of killing the enemy it keeps them there and does d6 wounds. Can test agaist each others movement, maybe?

Thatd be pretty sweet.

Re-roll advance rolls. That's it.






Oh, and no psykers. Obviously.

changemod wrote:

Crimson_ wrote:
Profile of the Redemptor and ultramarines chapter tactics on the community page. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/14/ultramarines-and-the-redemptor-dreadnought-first-lookgw-homepage-post-2/

Nowhere close to a leviathan rivaler. It's more like a Contemptor that trades Atomatic shielding for more weapon hardpoints.

Agreed. And I think I prefer my contemptors. Hitting on a 2+ makes a big difference, and the invulnerable helps.

The main problem I see with the redemptor is that it looks like it will cost a crap ton of points, without being all that tough. We don't know what any of those guns do, but it's got loads of them and so it seems reasonable to expect it to be a 200+ point model. If its main job is smashing things in cc, and it's no better at that than a normal dread, then I think it's hard to justify.

Maybe it will be allowed a gun on each arm. It could make a very decent firing platform, if that's the case.

Mandragola wrote:

changemod wrote:

Crimson_ wrote:
Profile of the Redemptor and ultramarines chapter tactics on the community page. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/14/ultramarines-and-the-redemptor-dreadnought-first-lookgw-homepage-post-2/

Nowhere close to a leviathan rivaler. It's more like a Contemptor that trades Atomatic shielding for more weapon hardpoints.

Agreed. And I think I prefer my contemptors. Hitting on a 2+ makes a big difference, and the invulnerable helps.

The main problem I see with the redemptor is that it looks like it will cost a crap ton of points, without being all that tough. We don't know what any of those guns do, but it's got loads of them and so it seems reasonable to expect it to be a 200+ point model. If its main job is smashing things in cc, and it's no better at that than a normal dread, then I think it's hard to justify.

Maybe it will be allowed a gun on each arm. It could make a very decent firing platform, if that's the case.

Well, it has the same number of hardpoints as a Leviathan, though the leviathan can't take it's top mount missiles in current rules so technically one more.

Two main gun or fist and small weapon points, plus three more small weapon points.

Fist means that you either need to move and shoot, meaning functional BS4, or stay still and pay for an unused fist. On a smaller dread you take that for granted, here with higher cost that's a noticable downside given the sheer amount of dakka and that a basic dread close combat weapon is 40 points.

It occupies a weird role outside the existing dread roles... So par for the course for Cawl's marines I guess.

And the NuDread is still T7? Interesting.

The Ultramarines tactic is nice but not brilliant. A heavy shooting unit that has been hit in close combat is probably already somewhat depleted. That plus the -1 will hinder their ability to retaliate.

IF it affects vehicles, that is a big deal though!

The Redemptor also deteriorates... interesting.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
And so the silliness begins. Can't say I'm anywhere near enthused by the Ultramarines chapter tactics "oh, hey we'll ignore this massively important component of the game rules".

Pretty tremendous power creep as expected. Shame.

Every army is going to get these. So it isn't really power creep when it happens across the board.

Yeah - so they say and when exactly - at the moment its a FREE power boost to one specific army which may be matched sometime in the future - if you get a codex and/or are not an ignored sub-faction.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
And so the silliness begins. Can't say I'm anywhere near enthused by the Ultramarines chapter tactics "oh, hey we'll ignore this massively important component of the game rules".

Pretty tremendous power creep as expected. Shame.

Every army is going to get these. So it isn't really power creep when it happens across the board.

Yeah - so they say and when exactly - at the moment its a FREE power boost to one specific army which may be matched sometime in the future - if you get a codex and/or are not an ignored sub-faction.

So their units can fall back and shoot with a hit penalty... Its nice and reflects the tactical flexibility of Ultramarines, but its hardly game breaking. Sure its good for the presumable price of being mono-Marines across the whole army and I would like to see some other cost attached (maybe there will be), but this is nothing non-marine players should be crying foul about.

 danyboy wrote:

Sagittarii Orientalis wrote:
From Warhammer Community post(https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/14/ultramarines-and-the-redemptor-dreadnought-first-lookgw-homepage-post-2/)

"...like all Chapter Tactics, this will apply to your Infantry, Bikers and Dreadnoughts. "

I suppose this means non-Dreadnought vehicles do not benefit from chapter tactics.
And I have been playing vehicle-heavy Iron Hands army all along......

Remember that Iron Hands always had CT rule that affected every vehicle in their army. I'm pretty sure it will work in 8th ed too.
I just hope they write this rule properly this time

Yep, don't write it off just yet. I'm sure certain Chapter Tactions/Legion Traits will be exceptions to the blanket rule and will affect vehicles or the like as well. But for the most part the blanket rule suffices.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
And so the silliness begins. Can't say I'm anywhere near enthused by the Ultramarines chapter tactics "oh, hey we'll ignore this massively important component of the game rules".

Pretty tremendous power creep as expected. Shame.

Every army is going to get these. So it isn't really power creep when it happens across the board.

Yeah - so they say and when exactly - at the moment its a FREE power boost to one specific army which may be matched sometime in the future - if you get a codex and/or are not an ignored sub-faction.

So their units can fall back and shoot with a hit penalty... Its nice and reflects the tactical flexibility of Ultramarines, but its hardly game breaking. Sure its good for the presumable price of being mono-Marines across the whole army and I would like to see some other cost attached (maybe there will be), but this is nothing non-marine players should be crying foul about.

Ah right - so free power boosts are fine now - just like free transports were fine in 7th - yeah nothing to complain about when your non marine armies have to wait / may not get anything or anything as powerful....

and the downside is you have to play with your army- ah right - that's balanced.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
And so the silliness begins. Can't say I'm anywhere near enthused by the Ultramarines chapter tactics "oh, hey we'll ignore this massively important component of the game rules".

Pretty tremendous power creep as expected. Shame.

Every army is going to get these. So it isn't really power creep when it happens across the board.

Yeah - so they say and when exactly - at the moment its a FREE power boost to one specific army which may be matched sometime in the future - if you get a codex and/or are not an ignored sub-faction.

So their units can fall back and shoot with a hit penalty... Its nice and reflects the tactical flexibility of Ultramarines, but its hardly game breaking. Sure its good for the presumable price of being mono-Marines across the whole army and I would like to see some other cost attached (maybe there will be), but this is nothing non-marine players should be crying foul about.

Ah right - so free power boosts are fine now - just like free transports were fine in 7th - yeah nothing to complain about when your non marine armies have to wait / may not get anything or anything as powerful....

and the downside is you have to play with your army- ah right - that's balanced.

This is hyperbole right here.

It's not that huge a boost. It's interesting and rewards you for sticking to specific keywords across a detachment/army. Seriously, did you not think this would be coming? The same perks exist in AoS for sticking to one faction or another.

Basically you have a choice - you can go all Ultramarines, purely mono-SM and get a Ld boost and the ability to make tactical withdrawals...or you can go Keyword Imperium and mix in some AM/Inquisition/Knights/Sisters/etc.

Don't forget, unlike the last edition Legion of the Damned are a seperate faction as well so this cuts them off from that.

This is nothing like 'free transports' or 'free upgrades'. Nowhere near that level...

And remember, the units you want to assault, to tie up will be the hardest hit....assault a devastator squad or rifleman dread - sure it can fall back and shoot...but it's taking at least a -2 penalty for doing so. You still neuter them to a reasonable extent by doing that.

There may be restrictions to <Ultramarines> as well, but in the event a space marine unit gets hit by a proper melee unit it won't have much to flee and shoot with. This rule works best for bikes and dreads/vehicles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
but it's taking at least a -2 penalty for doing so. You still neuter them to a reasonable extent by doing that.

Yup yup. All, but the landraider will be rocking 5s to hit and then they'll get charged again next turn and strike last.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
And so the silliness begins. Can't say I'm anywhere near enthused by the Ultramarines chapter tactics "oh, hey we'll ignore this massively important component of the game rules".

Pretty tremendous power creep as expected. Shame.

Every army is going to get these. So it isn't really power creep when it happens across the board.

Yeah - so they say and when exactly - at the moment its a FREE power boost to one specific army which may be matched sometime in the future - if you get a codex and/or are not an ignored sub-faction.

So their units can fall back and shoot with a hit penalty... Its nice and reflects the tactical flexibility of Ultramarines, but its hardly game breaking. Sure its good for the presumable price of being mono-Marines across the whole army and I would like to see some other cost attached (maybe there will be), but this is nothing non-marine players should be crying foul about.

Ah right - so free power boosts are fine now - just like free transports were fine in 7th - yeah nothing to complain about when your non marine armies have to wait / may not get anything or anything as powerful....

and the downside is you have to play with your army- ah right - that's balanced.

This is hyperbole right here.

It's not that huge a boost. It's interesting and rewards you for sticking to specific keywords across a detachment/army. Seriously, did you not think this would be coming? The same perks exist in AoS for sticking to one faction or another.

Basically you have a choice - you can go all Ultramarines, purely mono-SM and get a Ld boost and the ability to make tactical withdrawals...or you can go Keyword Imperium and mix in some AM/Inquisition/Knights/Sisters/etc.

Don't forget, unlike the last edition Legion of the Damned are a seperate faction as well so this cuts them off from that.

This is nothing like 'free transports' or 'free upgrades'. Nowhere near that level...

And remember, the units you want to assault, to tie up will be the hardest hit....assault a devastator squad or rifleman dread - sure it can fall back and shoot...but it's taking at least a -2 penalty for doing so. You still neuter them to a reasonable extent by doing that.

Its a Power Boost - Agreed?
Its Free? Agreed
Its a problem.

We don't even know that you need to go "pure" its just a free power boost to those units with that specific Chapter Tactics.

Yes we knew it was coming - no that does not make it less of an issue. Again if some armies get free stuff and others have to wait or in fact never get it- well that speaks volumes about both game balance and the people who welcome their free boosts.