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Battle Brother Lucifer wrote:Wait, is the no-customizing your units/hq's fear mongering or actually confirmed? For the first time Im feeling like all my years in the hobby spent lovingly converting has been a wash. I can't add flavor to my force if it doesnt come in a kit together? Are you serious?

Yes and no. The sky isn't falling but, at least in this particular case, they are cloudy with a chance of thunderstorms. Some options for some characters are gone whereas with the primaris you have little to no options. Gravis captain? One build from what I saw.. the one you get in the starter. Primaris Captain? You swap out the bolter for the other flavor of bolter that is on the monopose sprue. This is based on what I've read or listened to in reviews as I don't personally have the codex (or even the index).

Thommy H wrote:Can't you just use the Index entries for things not included in the Codex because they don't make the models any more? Like how in AoS, you can still use the compendium warscrolls if you want. I'd imagine that stuff like Chapter Tactics, Stratagems, etc. will be tied to keywords, so a Librarian on Bike would still function the same whether taken from the Index or the Codex.

Yes and no again. Plenty of folks who don't frequent Dakka will consider the index replaced with the codex just like when an old codex is replaced. For simplicity and to avoid confusion, tourneys may start to mandate the same so that some White Scars are not playing by literally different rules than other White Scars for instance. GW could of course fix that with a couple lines in the FAQ (assuming they're not there already) that it's ok to use either or even both.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Pariah-Miniatures wrote:
Lol
https://i.imgur.com/S0uQIYn.jpg

Called it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pariah-Miniatures wrote:
Lol
https://i.imgur.com/S0uQIYn.jpg

Where is this from exactly

It's a line from the novel "Dark Imperium"keep in mind this is a character's opinion and perception. Also it's an in character statement, and one that I don't think long term is exactly a shocker, long term yes the old style astartes' daysare indeed numbered, in a few thousand years they'll all become Primaris Marines, but that doesn't mean standard astraes are OOCly going anywhere. it just means the next 30 years of 40k stuff'll be all about that akward time when the space marines can see their replacements coming etc

I am loving the Aggressors and the Reivers, but I am concerned when looking at the actual sprues themselves how much posability the kits have... There is a reasonable amount of pose variance there, but seems Primaris line does not have the Torso and Legs seperation posability old Marine model line does, and Aggressors posability is worse so because you can't even adjust arm posability without some chop shop converting due to those ammo belts and fuel lines.

Aggressors don't really add much to my Boltgun heavy army, so I am holding off on the for now. Reivers provide something new for me, so they are a must, alongside the Redemptor.

GenRifDrake wrote:
I am loving the Aggressors and the Reivers, but I am concerned when looking at the actual sprues themselves how much posability the kits have... There is a reasonable amount of pose variance there, but seems Primaris line does not have the Torso and Legs seperation posability old Marine model line does, and Aggressors posability is worse so because you can't even adjust arm posability without some chop shop converting due to those ammo belts and fuel lines.

Good ol' gee dubz.

GenRifDrake wrote:
I am loving the Aggressors and the Reivers, but I am concerned when looking at the actual sprues themselves how much posability the kits have... There is a reasonable amount of pose variance there, but seems Primaris line does not have the Torso and Legs seperation posability old Marine model line does, and Aggressors posability is worse so because you can't even adjust arm posability without some chop shop converting due to those ammo belts and fuel lines.

The Primaris armour's do seem to have more midriff and waist area detail then regular SM models. Even the regular MK-X has a more segmented look than older marks. Could be that GW felt the separate torso and leg system did not work well with the new styles and the aesthetic improvement was worth the drop in poseability.

On a different note. This article https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/22/the-other-angels-of-death-and-codex-space-marines/ on the WH community site has got me wondering about the future for the Primaris. So far every variant chapter bar the GK has full access to the(non DI box) Primaris line. When the BA, DA, SW and DW codex's arrive will there be new Primaris units to go with, and will vanilla SM players be able to use them?

Awh I was thinking that the Space Wolves and their WGBLs were special...but nope SM get rerolls to 1 wound as well.

GoatboyBeta wrote:

GenRifDrake wrote:
I am loving the Aggressors and the Reivers, but I am concerned when looking at the actual sprues themselves how much posability the kits have... There is a reasonable amount of pose variance there, but seems Primaris line does not have the Torso and Legs seperation posability old Marine model line does, and Aggressors posability is worse so because you can't even adjust arm posability without some chop shop converting due to those ammo belts and fuel lines.

The Primaris armour's do seem to have more midriff and waist area detail then regular SM models. Even the regular MK-X has a more segmented look than older marks. Could be that GW felt the separate torso and leg system did not work well with the new styles and the aesthetic improvement was worth the drop in poseability.

On a different note. This article https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/22/the-other-angels-of-death-and-codex-space-marines/ on the WH community site has got me wondering about the future for the Primaris. So far every variant chapter bar the GK has full access to the(non DI box) Primaris line. When the BA, DA, SW and DW codex's arrive will there be new Primaris units to go with, and will vanilla SM players be able to use them?

Just from my experience with the Dark Imperium Intercessors/Hellblasters and comparing them to other Marine bits, I think very much that it will only be the special units (Inceptors, Aggressors, Reivers, etc) that will be incompatible with existing Marines. The main difference the standard Mk.X Primaris Marine has from any non-Primaris Marine is that they have a real abdomen and their legs are longer. I have very successfully done a Heavy Bolter/Devastator conversion with this Sergeant. I gave him a ammo belted heavy bolter and the corresponding backpack, and replaced his helmet with a good old Mk. VII. The work was so minimal that I only feel comfortable calling it a "conversion" because I cut off the helmet on his waist and covered up the damage with pouches and grenades.

The Dark Imperium kits have some difficulties due to being monopose, but I have no doubts that the eventual multi-part kits of standard Mk.X armoured Marines will be fairly compatible with the old range. Unfortunately due to the lack of proper abdomen on the old Marine kits, some work will be involved to adapt the torsos. Obviously legs won't work at all, at least not without truescale-type work (which is what I want Primaris for anyway).

jcd386 wrote:
Awh I was thinking that the Space Wolves and their WGBLs were special...but nope SM get rerolls to 1 wound as well.

We sort of knew that as soon as we saw the Primaris Lieutenants. But WGBL can take Storm Shields whereas the Lieutenant cannot. There are other options the BL can take that the LT cannot, such as taking a mount and whatnot.

One interesting thing is that this provides a good way to fit Primaris Lieutenants into the Space Wolves. Call them Primaris Battle Leaders instead of Lieutenants. It might help fit Primaris Marines into the Space Wolves a little better overall. Hopefully they will rename the units for the Space Wolves anyway. The Primaris names don't fit the Space Wolves at all. Perhaps they will even refer to the Primaris, as a whole, as something different than Primaris.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

Just from my experience with the Dark Imperium Intercessors/Hellblasters and comparing them to other Marine bits, I think very much that it will only be the special units (Inceptors, Aggressors, Reivers, etc) that will be incompatible with existing Marines. The main difference the standard Mk.X Primaris Marine has from any non-Primaris Marine is that they have a real abdomen and their legs are longer. I have very successfully done a Heavy Bolter/Devastator conversion with this Sergeant. I gave him a ammo belted heavy bolter and the corresponding backpack, and replaced his helmet with a good old Mk. VII. The work was so minimal that I only feel comfortable calling it a "conversion" because I cut off the helmet on his waist and covered up the damage with pouches and grenades.

You should post a pic of the conversion as it sounds interesting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

jcd386 wrote:
Awh I was thinking that the Space Wolves and their WGBLs were special...but nope SM get rerolls to 1 wound as well.

We sort of knew that as soon as we saw the Primaris Lieutenants. But WGBL can take Storm Shields whereas the Lieutenant cannot. There are other options the BL can take that the LT cannot, such as taking a mount and whatnot.

One interesting thing is that this provides a good way to fit Primaris Lieutenants into the Space Wolves. Call them Primaris Battle Leaders instead of Lieutenants. It might help fit Primaris Marines into the Space Wolves a little better overall. Hopefully they will rename the units for the Space Wolves anyway. The Primaris names don't fit the Space Wolves at all. Perhaps they will even refer to the Primaris, as a whole, as something different than Primaris.

WGBL were the pinnacle of customization in 5th-7th with the ability to take pretty much whatever combination of anything they wanted.. I'll be curious to see how much of that survives given the cropping of options in vanilla marine lists. That goes double for the Primaris Lt's in the Space Wolf list since the difference will be even more glaring if the former's options aren't pared down.

I turned my primaris Lt into my Techmarines.

Seems to fit what an actual Tech would look like.

this raises the intreasting question, we haven't seen or heard of Primaris tech Marines... are those going to be a thing?

I'm pretty sure. And I'm glad. Really glad to see the Primaris Aphotecary. I loved Aphotecarys, but to see them as such a side-add on to the command squad all this years was very dissapointing.
Having him being a special character with a very nice new model is such a good thing.

 Galas wrote:
I'm pretty sure. And I'm glad. Really glad to see the Primaris Aphotecary. I loved Aphotecarys, but to see them as such a side-add on to the command squad all this years was very dissapointing.
Having him being a special character with a very nice new model is such a good thing.

I agree, I like the addition of minor characters being done up in this edition.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I'm pretty sure. And I'm glad. Really glad to see the Primaris Aphotecary. I loved Aphotecarys, but to see them as such a side-add on to the command squad all this years was very dissapointing.
Having him being a special character with a very nice new model is such a good thing.

I agree, I like the addition of minor characters being done up in this edition.

Too bad they didn't release a clam pack regular Apothecary. As I have said before, Apothecaries are my favorite special Marine type. I don't think the Command Squad Apothecary does it any justice and the old one is hard to find. That said, 100% getting the Primaris Apothecary.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Aggressors don't really add much to my Boltgun heavy army, so I am holding off on the for now. Reivers provide something new for me, so they are a must, alongside the Redemptor.

Unless you discount Contemptor dreadnoughts anyway as those outclass Redemptors by a large degree. Relics are 236pts with 4 lascannons that hit on a 2+, degrade only to a 4+ and the dreadnought has a 2+ save.

BrianDavion wrote:
this raises the intreasting question, we haven't seen or heard of Primaris tech Marines... are those going to be a thing?

Eventually.. yes, I'd expect that. This year? No, it's not in the codex. If GW follows their AOS route, you should expect a yearly update though for the most popular army (Space Marines being the proto-Sigmarines and all).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I'm pretty sure. And I'm glad. Really glad to see the Primaris Aphotecary. I loved Aphotecarys, but to see them as such a side-add on to the command squad all this years was very dissapointing.
Having him being a special character with a very nice new model is such a good thing.

I agree, I like the addition of minor characters being done up in this edition.

Agreed. Of course, it would be remiss of us not to point out that FW did it first years ago with their 30k equivalents.

 Kirasu wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Aggressors don't really add much to my Boltgun heavy army, so I am holding off on the for now. Reivers provide something new for me, so they are a must, alongside the Redemptor.

Unless you discount Contemptor dreadnoughts anyway as those outclass Redemptors by a large degree. Relics are 236pts with 4 lascannons that hit on a 2+, degrade only to a 4+ and the dreadnought has a 2+ save.

My only Contemptor is a Mortis with 2x Kheres and a CML. I still like the Redemptor. The Plasma Cannon thing is sweet, even if the big Gatling gun is probably better. I am still taking the sub-arm Gatling gun, so it isn't a total loss. 197 pts for my loadout. Not bad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Primaris Apothecary has an 18" Str 5, AP -1, 1D pistol called an Absolver Pistol (Primaris Chaplains have the same pistol) and a 3" Str 4, AP -3, 2D pistol called a Reductor Pistol. Otherwise they are the same as a regular Apothecary with +1W. Not bad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another thing I noticed, a Stormraven can carry a Redemptor Dreadnought. So that is cool. He could also go in a Lucius Pod. So his shortish range for shooting is not bad at all.

What do Apothocaries even do this edition?

 AduroT wrote:
What do Apothocaries even do this edition?

They give d3 wounds back to injured models automatically. If there are no injured models nearby, they can resurrect a model on a 4+.

GenRifDrake wrote:
I am loving the Aggressors and the Reivers, but I am concerned when looking at the actual sprues themselves how much posability the kits have... There is a reasonable amount of pose variance there, but seems Primaris line does not have the Torso and Legs seperation posability old Marine model line does, and Aggressors posability is worse so because you can't even adjust arm posability without some chop shop converting due to those ammo belts and fuel lines.

Can't have 3rd party bitz makers having an easy time. Best make any new kits only compatible with itself.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Pretty happy with the return of lower-tier commanders. Was 3rd core the last place where those levels were statted?

Either way, it gives me an excuse to play around with some nicer veterans over having like 4 generic captains, and I think they'll see a lot of action in smaller games.

A shame they don't get Storm Shields, though.

No but a captain, Lt, apothecary, ancient, company champion and then 5 company vets in a land raider would be a pretty expensive but hardy unit especially if kitted for combat with the re rolls to hit and wound from the captain and Lt the wounds from the apothecary and the extra fight back from the ancient!

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another thing I noticed, a Stormraven can carry a Redemptor Dreadnought. So that is cool. He could also go in a Lucius Pod. So his shortish range for shooting is not bad at all.

No, the Stormraven can not transport Redemptors. Last sentence in the datasheet: "This model can not transport Primaris models or Redemptor Dreadnoughts."
It was clearly visible in the codex review from winterSEO right at the end of the video.

Crimson_ wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another thing I noticed, a Stormraven can carry a Redemptor Dreadnought. So that is cool. He could also go in a Lucius Pod. So his shortish range for shooting is not bad at all.

No, the Stormraven can not transport Redemptors. Last sentence in the datasheet: "This model can not transport Primaris models or Redemptor Dreadnoughts."
It was clearly visible in the codex review from winterSEO right at the end of the video.

Damn. That is dumb.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:

GenRifDrake wrote:
I am loving the Aggressors and the Reivers, but I am concerned when looking at the actual sprues themselves how much posability the kits have... There is a reasonable amount of pose variance there, but seems Primaris line does not have the Torso and Legs seperation posability old Marine model line does, and Aggressors posability is worse so because you can't even adjust arm posability without some chop shop converting due to those ammo belts and fuel lines.

The Primaris armour's do seem to have more midriff and waist area detail then regular SM models. Even the regular MK-X has a more segmented look than older marks. Could be that GW felt the separate torso and leg system did not work well with the new styles and the aesthetic improvement was worth the drop in poseability.

On a different note. This article https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/22/the-other-angels-of-death-and-codex-space-marines/ on the WH community site has got me wondering about the future for the Primaris. So far every variant chapter bar the GK has full access to the(non DI box) Primaris line. When the BA, DA, SW and DW codex's arrive will there be new Primaris units to go with, and will vanilla SM players be able to use them?

Just from my experience with the Dark Imperium Intercessors/Hellblasters and comparing them to other Marine bits, I think very much that it will only be the special units (Inceptors, Aggressors, Reivers, etc) that will be incompatible with existing Marines. The main difference the standard Mk.X Primaris Marine has from any non-Primaris Marine is that they have a real abdomen and their legs are longer. I have very successfully done a Heavy Bolter/Devastator conversion with this Sergeant. I gave him a ammo belted heavy bolter and the corresponding backpack, and replaced his helmet with a good old Mk. VII. The work was so minimal that I only feel comfortable calling it a "conversion" because I cut off the helmet on his waist and covered up the damage with pouches and grenades.

The Dark Imperium kits have some difficulties due to being monopose, but I have no doubts that the eventual multi-part kits of standard Mk.X armoured Marines will be fairly compatible with the old range. Unfortunately due to the lack of proper abdomen on the old Marine kits, some work will be involved to adapt the torsos. Obviously legs won't work at all, at least not without truescale-type work (which is what I want Primaris for anyway).

Pics of the heavy bolter marine please?

Also, aren't the older arms too small to use on primaris?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Crimson_ wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another thing I noticed, a Stormraven can carry a Redemptor Dreadnought. So that is cool. He could also go in a Lucius Pod. So his shortish range for shooting is not bad at all.

No, the Stormraven can not transport Redemptors. Last sentence in the datasheet: "This model can not transport Primaris models or Redemptor Dreadnoughts."
It was clearly visible in the codex review from winterSEO right at the end of the video.

Damn. That is dumb.

Yeah totally. Would have been to nice to transport the Redemptor with the Stormraven.

Crimson_ wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Crimson_ wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another thing I noticed, a Stormraven can carry a Redemptor Dreadnought. So that is cool. He could also go in a Lucius Pod. So his shortish range for shooting is not bad at all.

No, the Stormraven can not transport Redemptors. Last sentence in the datasheet: "This model can not transport Primaris models or Redemptor Dreadnoughts."
It was clearly visible in the codex review from winterSEO right at the end of the video.

Damn. That is dumb.

Yeah totally. Would have been to nice to transport the Redemptor with the Stormraven.

At least a Lucius Drop Pod can still transport one (FOR NOW!).

That moment when the grav clamp on the back wont work on a redemptor but can carry a Leviathan...

So the stupid separation of transports is still in? Maybe a case could be made for why the SR cant carry the new larger dread, but not in the case of Primaris infantry Do GW really have so little confidence that a new SM tank will not sell without making it the only option for Primaris units?

Crazyterran wrote:That moment when the grav clamp on the back wont work on a redemptor but can carry a Leviathan...

It is a magna clamp (it is literally the same thing as the magna grapnel on a Furioso Dreadnought. Seriously, same bit in appearance). Apparently Redemptor Dreads are not magnetic.

GoatboyBeta wrote:So the stupid separation of transports is still in? Maybe a case could be made for why the SR cant carry the new larger dread, but not in the case of Primaris infantry Do GW really have so little confidence that a new SM tank will not sell without making it the only option for Primaris units?

Yup. It's in and they even doubled down on it by making the Repulsor incapable of carrying a regular Space Marine. Apparently Marneus Calgar has zero pull with his Chapter. The Marine that is over a head taller than him just looks down and says "Sorry, sir, you are too big."