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Another Tournament roundup, unfortunately I didn't get to it until half a week later and I wasn't able to take as many pictures as I wanted. Just kind of a nice, high level Battle Report of my games.

Great write up. So good to be back to some written reports. Very interested on your thoughts on reaper spam if you've ever actually come up against it (35+ reapers etc)

MaLiKAR wrote:
Great write up. So good to be back to some written reports. Very interested on your thoughts on reaper spam if you've ever actually come up against it (35+ reapers etc)

Glad you enjoyed it, I keep meaning to do both but I haven't gotten a decent non-Tournament game in weeks! Hopefully I can get one this week with the holiday.

I have not played against 35 Reapers, it would probably do very well against me. I think it has plenty of counters, it's hard to hide that many Reapers unless you're also taking Webway Strike or Wave Serpents but it would be a very powerful army. Reapers are probably.....a bit under-priced right now so I don't blame Eldar players for spamming them. The always hits on a 3+ is just such a powerful rule, there's not counter. They can even move if you play the LoS game, doesn't matter, and they synergize with all the best Eldar Psychic Powers. If I played Eldar I'd abuse the hell out of Wave Serpents and Dark Reapers, they have the best Transport in the game but I usually don't see more than two in a list.

 The Prince of Excess wrote:

MaLiKAR wrote:
Great write up. So good to be back to some written reports. Very interested on your thoughts on reaper spam if you've ever actually come up against it (35+ reapers etc)

Glad you enjoyed it, I keep meaning to do both but I haven't gotten a decent non-Tournament game in weeks! Hopefully I can get one this week with the holiday.

I have not played against 35 Reapers, it would probably do very well against me. I think it has plenty of counters, it's hard to hide that many Reapers unless you're also taking Webway Strike or Wave Serpents but it would be a very powerful army. Reapers are probably.....a bit under-priced right now so I don't blame Eldar players for spamming them. The always hits on a 3+ is just such a powerful rule, there's not counter. They can even move if you play the LoS game, doesn't matter, and they synergize with all the best Eldar Psychic Powers. If I played Eldar I'd abuse the hell out of Wave Serpents and Dark Reapers, they have the best Transport in the game but I usually don't see more than two in a list.

Interesting. What makes you find the wave serpent so good?. Totally agree with its durability etc but not sure offensively it’s as efficient as other choices.

Interested on your thoughts regarding first turn. What is roughly the average number of drops you’re finding you’re up against in the more competitive games.

MaLiKAR wrote:

 The Prince of Excess wrote:

MaLiKAR wrote:
Great write up. So good to be back to some written reports. Very interested on your thoughts on reaper spam if you've ever actually come up against it (35+ reapers etc)

Glad you enjoyed it, I keep meaning to do both but I haven't gotten a decent non-Tournament game in weeks! Hopefully I can get one this week with the holiday.

I have not played against 35 Reapers, it would probably do very well against me. I think it has plenty of counters, it's hard to hide that many Reapers unless you're also taking Webway Strike or Wave Serpents but it would be a very powerful army. Reapers are probably.....a bit under-priced right now so I don't blame Eldar players for spamming them. The always hits on a 3+ is just such a powerful rule, there's not counter. They can even move if you play the LoS game, doesn't matter, and they synergize with all the best Eldar Psychic Powers. If I played Eldar I'd abuse the hell out of Wave Serpents and Dark Reapers, they have the best Transport in the game but I usually don't see more than two in a list.

Interesting. What makes you find the wave serpent so good?. Totally agree with its durability etc but not sure offensively it’s as efficient as other choices.

Interested on your thoughts regarding first turn. What is roughly the average number of drops you’re finding you’re up against in the more competitive games.

It's so good because of the durability. I'd never take a Transport for offense unless it's a pure gunboat i.e. pre-nerf Razorbacks. Wave Serpents are a pure transport, they can have guns and all kinds of upgrades but I find them pointless. Shuriken Cannon, Shuriken Catapault, go go go. They chew up some Infantry but their real strength is denying the alpha, it is so hard to remove a Wave Serpent in one turn for some armies. It not being a gunboat also makes you not care when it takes damage, it can still tie things up in melee. It still has FLY so it can go over screens, it can Fall Back and shoot, and you can target Mortal Wounds onto things when it gets low or you feel like it. Wave Serpents are just insane in the things they can do for an army.

Number of drops varies widely. 12 seems to be the median, elite armies are usually in the 10 range and elite armies with Transports are in the 8 range. Mostly it depends on how good Characters are, Malefic Lords and Primaris Psykers being nerfed has dropped the average. The powerful meta armies are also Eldar, Chaos, and IG right now, IG has a ton of drops, Chaos is medium, and Eldar is medium to low.

Thoroughly enjoying your Batreps, great photos and write ups.

Another game up after a bit of a dry spell, played against one of my more regular opponents and his Salamanders. Turned out to be a good learning game with some emphasis on early game mistakes, I'm also testing a list with some of the new Codex: Demons stuff.

I should have another game or two up within a few days as I'm helping a friend test for LVO and I may play in a GT this weekend, unfortunately I need two of the new Demon models which release on the same day.

Played not one but two games against Ultramarines this week as I'm testing a VERY different Chaos army and my buddy is preparing for LVO. I also have a few matches this weekend so the drought is over!

Please bear with me while I get some of these models and figure the list out, both of the recent games are HEAVILY proxied on my side.

Always have to root for the ultramarines whenever they come up


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As a note, outside of truly non statistical rolls, I don’t think your army can lose to a full space marine list honestly

stratigo wrote:
Always have to root for the ultramarines whenever they come up


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As a note, outside of truly non statistical rolls, I don’t think your army can lose to a full space marine list honestly

It can but they have to be built well. I'm super advantaged though, it's probably 70-30 or 75-25. I'm working on another list that is probably 90-10 though, for Space Marines. Should have a Report up soon.

Space marines are simply a non competitive option at this point in my opinion. If you are trying to take a pure space marine list to a tourney, be prepared to lose.

I disagree with your sentiment. If you are having problems winning with them that does not equate to everyone else.

 Primark G wrote:
I disagree with your sentiment. If you are having problems winning with them that does not equate to everyone else.

I'm sure you do, but it's pretty well established that you have little clue what you are talking about, and indeed it's also clear that the primary reason you even posted here is that I hurt your feelings in another thread and are further hurt that I haven't promptly responded to you there. I'm sorry, that thread just isn't that important to me.

 Primark G wrote:
I disagree with your sentiment. If you are having problems winning with them that does not equate to everyone else.

So since you seem to be only person in the world without troubles winning feel free to show that by clearing several big competive tournaments. Deal?

If you sponsor me sure thing.

No need to bicker everyone, I put up another game.

Played against Ulthwe Eldar for my League, also testing out my army still after getting a nice punch in the face from Codex Demons. I think I'm narrowing in on "The Build", let me know what you think.

Orks are a sleeper army. You do them justice.

Ooohh, you have really changed up that army. Interesting...,

Nice game against Ulthwe, allthough I fail to see how it is possible to build an eldar army without a single wave serpent. Your rokkit armed skaven obliterators are not a perfect matchup for Wave Seperpents I think.

How do you feel your new army will stack up to Hive Tyrant spam?

pismakron wrote:
Ooohh, you have really changed up that army. Interesting...,

Nice game against Ulthwe, allthough I fail to see how it is possible to build an eldar army without a single wave serpent. Your rokkit armed skaven obliterators are not a perfect matchup for Wave Seperpents I think.

How do you feel your new army will stack up to Hive Tyrant spam?

Yeah killing Wave Serpents is a problem, although it's generally not required. Most people run them with limited guns and just as a basket for the Dark Reapers. After that they'll just charge me but now I can walk out, prior to that they were a major problem. The Warpsmith helps a little.

Is Hive Tyrant spam even good? Hive Tyrants have been consistently awful every time I've faced them, they die like nothing and they do very little. Never had a problem killing them and I've faced 2-3 several times. I'm more interested in going against Biovore spam backed by a good Objective focused army.

 The Prince of Excess wrote:

pismakron wrote:
Ooohh, you have really changed up that army. Interesting...,

Nice game against Ulthwe, allthough I fail to see how it is possible to build an eldar army without a single wave serpent. Your rokkit armed skaven obliterators are not a perfect matchup for Wave Seperpents I think.

How do you feel your new army will stack up to Hive Tyrant spam?

Yeah killing Wave Serpents is a problem, although it's generally not required. Most people run them with limited guns and just as a basket for the Dark Reapers. After that they'll just charge me but now I can walk out, prior to that they were a major problem. The Warpsmith helps a little.

Is Hive Tyrant spam even good? Hive Tyrants have been consistently awful every time I've faced them, they die like nothing and they do very little. Never had a problem killing them and I've faced 2-3 several times. I'm more interested in going against Biovore spam backed by a good Objective focused army.

One of the larger tournaments in the UK just ended. The top lists were Hive Tyrant spam + ripper swarms + mucolid spores, then Howling Banshees in serpents + other stuff, then more Hive Tyrant spam + mucolid spores, then dark talon spam, and number five was big cultist blobs with abbadon, typhus, poxwalkers, Ahriman and about a dozen Obliterators. In general there were LOTS of hive tyrants and lots of Alaitoc. Not many Plagueburst Crawlers and not many Orks, haha.

I pretty much dismiss all UK Events, their meta always seems way behind what is top tier. No idea why, I don't live in the UK, but it was that way when I played AoS, that way when I played Warmachine, and it seems that way for 40K. Maybe that's arrogant but I've never seen anything from the UK that made me regret it. It also depends what Mission Pack they play with, a lot of events don't use ITC Missions which really changes what's good. For example I used to play the Cultist and Abaddon army, it has HUGE problems in ITC Missions.

Explain why Hive Tyrants are good, don't point to results. I explain, in detail, why I think things are good. I explain why I think things are bad, just my opinions and game theory. Orks are awful so I don't know why they would be doing well, they've gotten worse and worse as 8th Edition has continued, that's why I sold them. I have no faith they'll be good even with a Codex, the bones of the army aren't powerful. None of the Codexes have re-written an army from the ground up, I doubt Orks will be the first. Also Howling Banshees in Serpents, why? What do Banshees do that's worth anything compared to so many other units you can run in Eldar? I need some British players to break down their meta for me because I do not understand but I want to. It's like they just play stuff that's fine instead of what's broken. Maybe they're more honorable.

 The Prince of Excess wrote:
I pretty much dismiss all UK Events, their meta always seems way behind what is top tier. No idea why, I don't live in the UK, but it was that way when I played AoS, that way when I played Warmachine, and it seems that way for 40K. Maybe that's arrogant but I've never seen anything from the UK that made me regret it. It also depends what Mission Pack they play with, a lot of events don't use ITC Missions which really changes what's good. For example I used to play the Cultist and Abaddon army, it has HUGE problems in ITC Missions.

Explain why Hive Tyrants are good, don't point to results. I explain, in detail, why I think things are good. I explain why I think things are bad, just my opinions and game theory. Orks are awful so I don't know why they would be doing well, they've gotten worse and worse as 8th Edition has continued, that's why I sold them. I have no faith they'll be good even with a Codex, the bones of the army aren't powerful. None of the Codexes have re-written an army from the ground up, I doubt Orks will be the first. Also Howling Banshees in Serpents, why? What do Banshees do that's worth anything compared to so many other units you can run in Eldar? I need some British players to break down their meta for me because I do not understand but I want to. It's like they just play stuff that's fine instead of what's broken. Maybe they're more honorable.

The UK meta for AoS is far and away superior to the US AoS meta I've found. The UK, and Europe in general, accepted and accepts AoS more readily than the US does.

The US does 40k better.

I don't know, hive tyrants seem best when utilized like you utilize your obliterators, but I don't remotely know the math behind their cost effectiveness verse an obliterators, but if it's close, it may come down to who dropped last. And you sold your orks? That bums me out. I'd think a codex could make them quite strong. They had a fairly effective base I think, you'd just need to tweak cost effectiveness.

stratigo wrote:

 The Prince of Excess wrote:
I pretty much dismiss all UK Events, their meta always seems way behind what is top tier. No idea why, I don't live in the UK, but it was that way when I played AoS, that way when I played Warmachine, and it seems that way for 40K. Maybe that's arrogant but I've never seen anything from the UK that made me regret it. It also depends what Mission Pack they play with, a lot of events don't use ITC Missions which really changes what's good. For example I used to play the Cultist and Abaddon army, it has HUGE problems in ITC Missions.

Explain why Hive Tyrants are good, don't point to results. I explain, in detail, why I think things are good. I explain why I think things are bad, just my opinions and game theory. Orks are awful so I don't know why they would be doing well, they've gotten worse and worse as 8th Edition has continued, that's why I sold them. I have no faith they'll be good even with a Codex, the bones of the army aren't powerful. None of the Codexes have re-written an army from the ground up, I doubt Orks will be the first. Also Howling Banshees in Serpents, why? What do Banshees do that's worth anything compared to so many other units you can run in Eldar? I need some British players to break down their meta for me because I do not understand but I want to. It's like they just play stuff that's fine instead of what's broken. Maybe they're more honorable.

The UK meta for AoS is far and away superior to the US AoS meta I've found. The UK, and Europe in general, accepted and accepts AoS more readily than the US does.

The US does 40k better.

I don't know, hive tyrants seem best when utilized like you utilize your obliterators, but I don't remotely know the math behind their cost effectiveness verse an obliterators, but if it's close, it may come down to who dropped last. And you sold your orks? That bums me out. I'd think a codex could make them quite strong. They had a fairly effective base I think, you'd just need to tweak cost effectiveness.

Maybe the UK has changed for AoS since I got out of that game when 8th dropped but I never saw top lists in their premier events. No Kunnin' Rukk, no Skyfire Spam, no SCE Bunker, none of that. I haven't touched AoS since before the new GHB even came out though so I do not know the meta at all anymore, I also haven't touched Warmachine in years.

I have no faith Orks will be good. They're built on top of BS5 in a game where minus to hit is all over the place. Even if Lootas/Tankbustas and so on are set to correct prices they still hit on 5's, at best! KMKs and so on hit on 4's but can't do anything to help with their LoS on correctly built tables. Right now Orks are living and dying off Garg Squigs, they still pay way too much for PKs which are not even good, Big Choppas aren't good, Smite has been nerfed, etc. I just don't see the bones as working, Orks have no shooting that's worth a damn and can survive. Even if the Mechanized options get buffed it's not like cracking a Battlewagon and then gunning down 15 T4 models is hard for any army. I firmly believe GW thinks Orks are for fun only and will not fix any of their issues. I'd love to be wrong though, I just see the army as in the same vein as Dark Eldar where they fundamentally do not work in the actual game.

I can see the power of Hive Tyrants since they're basically vehicles with a 4++, depending on how you equip them. They're just also easy to blow away, like vehicles, and you can only get like 8-9? I haven't seen any of the lists but I assume some of them don't have Wings or they have to run a lot of Rippers to be able to Deep Strike them all. Seems like a fun list to play against though, I should ask one of my locals to proxy it.

It could very well be that the meta here in Europe is just behind by three to four months.

I think the two top tyrant lists both ran 6 or 7 Behemoth Hive Tyrants with Adrenal Glands and wings in order to get the +1 rerollable charge out of reserves. And then a single Kronos HT for the psychich stratagem. I don't know how viable it would be in your meta, though.

I like the way you run your terrain, so that it both blocks line of sight AND grants a cover-save. The infinite height rule also cuts down on judgement calls, which is always a good thing, I think. I see so many people play the game with something like two ruins, some trees, a barricade and end-scoring. Its a totally different game, then.

pismakron wrote:
It could very well be that the meta here in Europe is just behind by three to four months.

I think the two top tyrant lists both ran 6 or 7 Behemoth Hive Tyrants with Adrenal Glands and wings in order to get the +1 rerollable charge out of reserves. And then a single Kronos HT for the psychich stratagem. I don't know how viable it would be in your meta, though.

I like the way you run your terrain, so that it both blocks line of sight AND grants a cover-save. The infinite height rule also cuts down on judgement calls, which is always a good thing, I think. I see so many people play the game with something like two ruins, some trees, a barricade and end-scoring. Its a totally different game, then.

America is falling behind in world importance but we can play Warhammer 40K damnit!

They were melee Tyrants? I'd assume it was a shooting list, that'd be a lot harder to counter. Or partial shooting at least. Do you have a link to the lists or just working off what you heard?

Thank you, I really like using forests. If you make some custom ones with rubble and stuff they fit into the game just fine and as you said it's very clear what's what. I saw similar setups on the FLG BatReps and was like "I'm stealing that".

 The Prince of Excess wrote:

pismakron wrote:
It could very well be that the meta here in Europe is just behind by three to four months.

I think the two top tyrant lists both ran 6 or 7 Behemoth Hive Tyrants with Adrenal Glands and wings in order to get the +1 rerollable charge out of reserves. And then a single Kronos HT for the psychich stratagem. I don't know how viable it would be in your meta, though.

I like the way you run your terrain, so that it both blocks line of sight AND grants a cover-save. The infinite height rule also cuts down on judgement calls, which is always a good thing, I think. I see so many people play the game with something like two ruins, some trees, a barricade and end-scoring. Its a totally different game, then.

America is falling behind in world importance but we can play Warhammer 40K damnit!

They were melee Tyrants? I'd assume it was a shooting list, that'd be a lot harder to counter. Or partial shooting at least. Do you have a link to the lists or just working off what you heard?

Thank you, I really like using forests. If you make some custom ones with rubble and stuff they fit into the game just fine and as you said it's very clear what's what. I saw similar setups on the FLG BatReps and was like "I'm stealing that".

Just of what I have heard, my mate was there, I wasn't. I found this on their facebook page. https://www.dropbox.com/s/p3dlxq0a45bbk18/Uprising18lists.pdf?dl=0

pismakron wrote:

 The Prince of Excess wrote:

pismakron wrote:
It could very well be that the meta here in Europe is just behind by three to four months.

I think the two top tyrant lists both ran 6 or 7 Behemoth Hive Tyrants with Adrenal Glands and wings in order to get the +1 rerollable charge out of reserves. And then a single Kronos HT for the psychich stratagem. I don't know how viable it would be in your meta, though.

I like the way you run your terrain, so that it both blocks line of sight AND grants a cover-save. The infinite height rule also cuts down on judgement calls, which is always a good thing, I think. I see so many people play the game with something like two ruins, some trees, a barricade and end-scoring. Its a totally different game, then.

America is falling behind in world importance but we can play Warhammer 40K damnit!

They were melee Tyrants? I'd assume it was a shooting list, that'd be a lot harder to counter. Or partial shooting at least. Do you have a link to the lists or just working off what you heard?

Thank you, I really like using forests. If you make some custom ones with rubble and stuff they fit into the game just fine and as you said it's very clear what's what. I saw similar setups on the FLG BatReps and was like "I'm stealing that".

Just of what I have heard, my mate was there, I wasn't. I found this on their facebook page. https://www.dropbox.com/s/p3dlxq0a45bbk18/Uprising18lists.pdf?dl=0

Already so many Magnus+Morty+LoSk Deep Strike lists, I can't believe the TO's allowed that when it's obvious it was going to be FAQ'd and has been.

 The Prince of Excess wrote:

pismakron wrote:

 The Prince of Excess wrote:

pismakron wrote:
It could very well be that the meta here in Europe is just behind by three to four months.

I think the two top tyrant lists both ran 6 or 7 Behemoth Hive Tyrants with Adrenal Glands and wings in order to get the +1 rerollable charge out of reserves. And then a single Kronos HT for the psychich stratagem. I don't know how viable it would be in your meta, though.

I like the way you run your terrain, so that it both blocks line of sight AND grants a cover-save. The infinite height rule also cuts down on judgement calls, which is always a good thing, I think. I see so many people play the game with something like two ruins, some trees, a barricade and end-scoring. Its a totally different game, then.

America is falling behind in world importance but we can play Warhammer 40K damnit!

They were melee Tyrants? I'd assume it was a shooting list, that'd be a lot harder to counter. Or partial shooting at least. Do you have a link to the lists or just working off what you heard?

Thank you, I really like using forests. If you make some custom ones with rubble and stuff they fit into the game just fine and as you said it's very clear what's what. I saw similar setups on the FLG BatReps and was like "I'm stealing that".

Just of what I have heard, my mate was there, I wasn't. I found this on their facebook page. https://www.dropbox.com/s/p3dlxq0a45bbk18/Uprising18lists.pdf?dl=0

Already so many Magnus+Morty+LoSk Deep Strike lists, I can't believe the TO's allowed that when it's obvious it was going to be FAQ'd and has been.

It was a glorious... week? I think that combo lasted a week

Just interested in your last battle report, you said that the Path of Command ability can't be used in conjunction with the Webway Strike stratagem.

I must have missed this somewhere, would you be able to point out why this is? As I understood it if the Autarch had been deployed, and was the Warlord then you could use the Path of Command on the stratagem. Same as the Imperial Guard Relic "Kurovs Aquilla", which we play as affecting even your opponents choice to use a Relic - as you're still using a Stratagem to do so.

I know the stratagems that are used "before the battle" etc can be used multiple times but didn't realise they would be exempt from these abilities.

shakul wrote:
Just interested in your last battle report, you said that the Path of Command ability can't be used in conjunction with the Webway Strike stratagem.

I must have missed this somewhere, would you be able to point out why this is? As I understood it if the Autarch had been deployed, and was the Warlord then you could use the Path of Command on the stratagem. Same as the Imperial Guard Relic "Kurovs Aquilla", which we play as affecting even your opponents choice to use a Relic - as you're still using a Stratagem to do so.

I know the stratagems that are used "before the battle" etc can be used multiple times but didn't realise they would be exempt from these abilities.

My apologies, the Autarch had not been deployed, the Webway Strike was the first thing done. If the Autarch had been deployed then absolutely you can try to get the Command Points back. This was a mistake on my opponent's part, if I were playing the list I'd deploy the Autarch then do my Deep Strike. It gives some information on your deployment but the guy is on a Jetbike so he can zoom over to wherever and you could fake them out.

I'll update my report to clarify.