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 puma713 wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:


Also, DG no longer use flamers apparently, having moved entirely over to plague spewing weapons to replace them.

That's right. Flames cleanse plague and filth away. We can't have that.

Also, Fire is a Tzeentch motif. Why would you use your rival's motif?

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Yeah I'm all for all this Plague stuff. The only thing I'm a little iffy on is plasma and fist being the only things you can put on the champion. I'd of liked to give him a Blight Launcher or one of those cleavers

Champions/sergeants etc dont usually get access to heavy/'special' weapons (melta/plasma guns missle launchers etc), of which the blight launcher could be seen to be. That's a good thing. Theyre leading a unit and utilizing their cc effectiveness

Im just hoping we get a points drop for Pox Walkers.

6pt for a poxie or 7pts for a T5 5++ 5+++ Plaguebearer...

Plaguebearers are T4 and 8pts/model. They also don't add models every time they kill infantry.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Plaguebearers are T4 and 8pts/model. They also don't add models every time they kill infantry.

They've been made cheaper by a point in the Chaos book.

I'm willing to bet Pox Walkers are going to be cheaper, at least made 5pts per model, unless they receive some significant buffs. I think they should be toughness 4 without needing Typhus' buff, as they're humans made tougher through disease, and they should always hit on 4's, rather than going down to 5's when they're 10 or less men strong. Typhus should just up their strength, and shouldn't be depended upon to make them worth it. Surely they should also get the Plague Weapon rule, as they're attacking you with rusted, festering weapons and coiling tentacles of filth.

 Tiberius501 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Plaguebearers are T4 and 8pts/model. They also don't add models every time they kill infantry.

They've been made cheaper by a point in the Chaos book.

I'm willing to bet Pox Walkers are going to be cheaper, at least made 5pts per model, unless they receive some significant buffs. I think they should be toughness 4 without needing Typhus' buff, as they're humans made tougher through disease, and they should always hit on 4's, rather than going down to 5's when they're 10 or less men strong. Typhus should just up their strength, and shouldn't be depended upon to make them worth it. Surely they should also get the Plague Weapon rule, as they're attacking you with rusted, festering weapons and coiling tentacles of filth.

That argument could be made for their 'weapons' though they weren't intentionally designed that way such as actual plague weapons

Cross posting new point costs for plague weapons (10 and 19 for new flamers if anyone forgot)

 VeteranNoob wrote:
Oh, my bad, misunderstood.
B axe 6, flail 10, great plague cleaver 15, mace Lucky Number 7

At 10 the flail seems the obvious choice, d3 attacks, 2 damage per hit which carries over. Cheaper than axe and mace which only gets you two attacks. Axe and knife is the budget option (assuming plague knives are still 0), and pretty decent, two attacks with a slightly better power axe isn't too shabby.

 Inquisitor Kallus wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Yeah I'm all for all this Plague stuff. The only thing I'm a little iffy on is plasma and fist being the only things you can put on the champion. I'd of liked to give him a Blight Launcher or one of those cleavers

Champions/sergeants etc dont usually get access to heavy/'special' weapons (melta/plasma guns missle launchers etc), of which the blight launcher could be seen to be. That's a good thing. Theyre leading a unit and utilizing their cc effectiveness

But... the plague marine sarge already does, a plasma gun. It's odd he only has access to plasma now (no combos no plague spewed/belcher or blight launcher).

Wow, I was expecting something like 20 points for the flail. 10pts?! Really? That's a steal!

I'm not at all complaining, that's glorious. My unit calculation just went down by 20pts

185pts for a unit of 7 with a power fist, 2 flails and 2 belchers. Hell yeah.
Swap the belchers for Blight Launchers for only 8pts more seems pretty mean too.

That actually seems quite affordable and effective

Yeah, I think two flails, two blight launchers will be my default unless the DG codex has even more options (c'mon blight launcher sarge!). D3 attacks is a bit random, but that's still 2-6 wounds potentially, and with spill over that's enough two on a unit represent a big deterrent, 3 meq or 5 geq dead on average. Makes for a good objective grabber that can contribute ranged fire and still be scary if something tries to charge them.

What I'm less sure of is how they work as a dedicated melee unit. Axe and knife or double knife seems the way to go for the non flail guys (mace looks lackluster). It's like a more expensive melee chosen unit, but tougher and with a slightly better loadout.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Wow, I was expecting something like 20 points for the flail. 10pts?! Really? That's a steal!

I'm not at all complaining, that's glorious. My unit calculation just went down by 20pts

185pts for a unit of 7 with a power fist, 2 flails and 2 belchers. Hell yeah.
Swap the belchers for Blight Launchers for only 8pts more seems pretty mean too.

That actually seems quite affordable and effective

Just from speculation, seems Plague Marine rhino rush may be in business.

combined with the blightbringer they can reroll the advance die and rush forward
with 2 cleaver and a fist you can even kill most tanks easy in melee

Sorry, I derped on the Plaguebearers.

I flicked to the Herald in the Index!

But yeh, they don't add models to the unit. Neither do Poxwalkers, unless you run 10+ with Typhus. A huge points sink.
(Ie, they don't kill marines)

DP with Wings and Plague Bearers is the way to go. Especially against Dark Eldar and Tau.
DE with Poison weapons always wound on a fixed number regardless of T and Tau basic weapon str 5.
I'd rather the 5++ and T4 base for 1pt extra.

But we shall see

I'm just hoping we have more competitive options rather than just spamming Brimstones. Which have been upped to 3pts each.

 puma713 wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Wow, I was expecting something like 20 points for the flail. 10pts?! Really? That's a steal!

I'm not at all complaining, that's glorious. My unit calculation just went down by 20pts

185pts for a unit of 7 with a power fist, 2 flails and 2 belchers. Hell yeah.
Swap the belchers for Blight Launchers for only 8pts more seems pretty mean too.

That actually seems quite affordable and effective

Just from speculation, seems Plague Marine rhino rush may be in business.

I guess the question is of they are more effective than berzerkers (or at least as effective)?

I mean, no obviously not. A plague marine with axe and knife runs at 1.5 a zerkers cost and has two attacks vs the 6 a zerkers has per phase, the only difference being two AP on the axe and slightly better chance to wound. If you go with double knives you at least are tougher for your points but even less powerful in melee. The two flails help but that's two per unit, and even those pay more to do compareable damage to a zerker.

Love that we're getting a wider array of weapons - although I'd have preferred Blight Launchers to stay at 2dmg a shot rather than D3.

The wait is killing me. Hopefully pre-orders are up before the end of the month

SilverAlien wrote:
Yeah, I think two flails, two blight launchers will be my default unless the DG codex has even more options (c'mon blight launcher sarge!). D3 attacks is a bit random, but that's still 2-6 wounds potentially, and with spill over that's enough two on a unit represent a big deterrent, 3 meq or 5 geq dead on average. Makes for a good objective grabber that can contribute ranged fire and still be scary if something tries to charge them.

What I'm less sure of is how they work as a dedicated melee unit. Axe and knife or double knife seems the way to go for the non flail guys (mace looks lackluster). It's like a more expensive melee chosen unit, but tougher and with a slightly better loadout.

That's what I'm thinking too, @SilverAlien. With new 40K DG I've now mapped out my future project with the 14th Legion: a Dusk Raiders army (relying heavily on Shapeways), my Heresy army led by either Mortarion or Typhon (got this covered already--but who knows what wonderful toys they'll put out), and just post-Siege of Terra/ Fall to Nurgle...so new 40K stuff and new demon primarch Mortarion.

Also, weird question, where were blight launchers 2 damage? They are d3 in my index.

SilverAlien wrote:
Yeah, I think two flails, two blight launchers will be my default unless the DG codex has even more options (c'mon blight launcher sarge!). D3 attacks is a bit random, but that's still 2-6 wounds potentially, and with spill over that's enough two on a unit represent a big deterrent, 3 meq or 5 geq dead on average. Makes for a good objective grabber that can contribute ranged fire and still be scary if something tries to charge them.

What I'm less sure of is how they work as a dedicated melee unit. Axe and knife or double knife seems the way to go for the non flail guys (mace looks lackluster). It's like a more expensive melee chosen unit, but tougher and with a slightly better loadout.

Yeah, I'm not too sure a dedicated melee unit would work either, they seem better as all-rounder support. As a dedicated melee unit, you could try going all axes and 2 flails and a fist, looking at 189pts, getting 2 fist attacks, 2d3 flail attacks and 8 axe attacks.

On average, the fist will kill someone, the flails will kill 3-5, and the axes will kill another 2-5 (depending on facing Meq or Geq).

So, I guess that's pretty good, as we have toughness going for us as well, but is it enough toughness for such a small number of guys trying to get into melee? We're still paying a lot for just 7 models, while melee armies like Tyranids spam their melee and run much faster than us, without the need of paying for transports. I'd also love to footslog, as it's fluffy, but that's putting them in the open.

Maybe though, moving that unit up with a big block of pox walkers would be good, because people always for some reason fear the pox walkers. Good distraction for the real melee dudes who'll definitely kill something if they live


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SilverAlien wrote:
Also, weird question, where were blight launchers 2 damage? They are d3 in my index.

That's so weird, I could've sworn they were 2dmg haha. Maybe it's in the DI DG army booklet

EDIT: Not DI book, cos they didn't have them there. I meant the box the 3 dudes come in with it and the stat card. But, it's D3 dmg on there too, so I have no idea where I got 2dmg from haha

Huh, that's odd because I've seen multiple people, some on a different forum, say the 2 dmg thing. Maybe people just repeated two average damage so much they forgot it was a d3?

Yeah must be. Well, at least it wasn't nurfed

Milkshaker wrote:

 puma713 wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Wow, I was expecting something like 20 points for the flail. 10pts?! Really? That's a steal!

I'm not at all complaining, that's glorious. My unit calculation just went down by 20pts

185pts for a unit of 7 with a power fist, 2 flails and 2 belchers. Hell yeah.
Swap the belchers for Blight Launchers for only 8pts more seems pretty mean too.

That actually seems quite affordable and effective

Just from speculation, seems Plague Marine rhino rush may be in business.

I guess the question is of they are more effective than berzerkers (or at least as effective)?

Well, we're talking about Death Guard, not vanilla chaos.

Hopefully Death Guard will get a strategem like Salamanders have that give all plague weapons +1 damage. That will make those flails even better and help clear hordes.

MrGiuseppe wrote:
Hopefully Death Guard will get a strategem like Salamanders have that give all plague weapons +1 damage. That will make those flails even better and help clear hordes.

Interesting, or maybe +1 attack or to-wound.

I wonder if we'll get a stratagem for pox walkers called something like, "The dead will rise," (best name, 10/10) where we can set up a unit of pox walkers outside of 9" of an enemy, where "the bodies of the battlefield rise again," essentially giving them deepstrike. That would be really useful, because you could throw down a big distraction at the start of the game, to give your other units time to get into good positions

I'd say we already have Nurglings for that, but more options are always good. Still not sold on the new PMs being better than Possessed or Spawn. But I'll simply use all three together, somebody will reach the enemy ;-).

 Tiberius501 wrote:

MrGiuseppe wrote:
Hopefully Death Guard will get a strategem like Salamanders have that give all plague weapons +1 damage. That will make those flails even better and help clear hordes.

Interesting, or maybe +1 attack or to-wound.

I wonder if we'll get a stratagem for pox walkers called something like, "The dead will rise," (best name, 10/10) where we can set up a unit of pox walkers outside of 9" of an enemy, where "the bodies of the battlefield rise again," essentially giving them deepstrike. That would be really useful, because you could throw down a big distraction at the start of the game, to give your other units time to get into good positions

Oh that'd be wonderful. Anything to help poxwalkers get around the field better. So many stratagems that I hope we get.

I'm still curious what our chapter tactic will be. Won't be DR across the army as that's baked in to the units, and grey knights showed you get something in top of that. I am a bit disappointed we probably won't be getting multiple vectors/warbands with unique chapter tactics if it follows the grey knight pattern.

Well, I'm not too sure how they work, but I'm pretty sure they don't have multiple chapters of Grey Knights (correct me if I'm wrong). Whereas they've made a thing of Vectors and how each one has a different way of fighting in the DI booklet. While I don't think it's a definite, it's still a possibility that we'll get Vector tactics.

I hopelessly have my hopes up for it anyway haha

For me the winner here is a squad with fist, 2 flails, & belchers. Being able to advance and shoot 9" with the 'flamer' is more useful to me than the +1S & AP of the spewer. Then again, the blight launcher is also really good at assault 2 S6 Dd3. So, not much to go wrong with here IMO.

What about the following?

5 Possessed <Nurgle>
5 Plague Marines
- Champ with plasma/fist/sword
- 2 x spewers/belchers/launchers/plasmas (personal flavour)
- 2 x flails
Rhino w/combi melta

Sure, it comes in at around 350 points but I think I like the combo. One drop re: deployment. So, more chance of 1st turn too.

If DG Possessed get DR then that's a nasty tag team right there. There's no reason to assume we won't get Vets of the Long War as a stratagem either, since DG have been in it since day one too, +1 to wound re-rolling 1s on plague weapons is sick. Summon in a Nurgle Herald for Virulent Blessing & the Possessed will be wounding pretty much anything T2-T5 on 2+ & T7 on a 4+, we're sure to have Miasma of Pestilence too so that on them from a Plaguecaster is great too. -1 to hit never hurt...

Also, VoTLW on flails & maces, as well as belchers and spewers makes them great too. +1 to wound means belchers wounding T4 on 3+ & T3 on 2+ with 1s re-rolled. Flails & maces would be hard pushed to not be wounding most infantry based enemies on a 2+ (Rhino eqs @T7 on a 4+ re-rolling 1s)... I'm hoping to hell GW don't derp & we get that stratagem!

On foot I'd be temped to go with;

7 Plague Marines
- Champ with plasma/fist/sword
- 2 x launchers
- 2 x flails
- 2 bolters

If you're going to take axes then Possessed are a better choice IMO as they're D3 S5 2AP base, faster, and easy-ish to get them to S6+ too.

I'm slightly concerned that we won't be able to use any units from the Chaos Codex. So that awesome possessed unit may not be a thing. But I sure hope it is, because that would be quite glorious.

And VoTLW would be great, and I think you're right about us getting it. +1 to wound would be nasty and glorious

I think the overwhelming majority of the units we had access to in the index will be ported over into the DG Codex directly - perhaps the generic Chaos Lord will get removed along with the vanilla Sorcerer etc, but I'd be surprised to see Possessed removed if there isn't a direct equivalent being introduced.

Yeah, I'd be absolutely gutted if Possessed got removed, I converted 10 Gal Vorbak into Nurgle Possessed. Without the universal units (Possessed, Predators, Helbrutes, Spawn, etc) we would be at a low codex count (providing the Nurgle Vindicator thing is the only new unit we 'haven't seen' yet).