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I am a completionist. The existence of these 3 Plague Marine in such an exploitative, massively and unnecessarily overpriced package galls me.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I am a completionist. The existence of these 3 Plague Marine in such an exploitative, massively and unnecessarily overpriced package galls me.

Then what are you waiting for? Maybe they have the same DG bodies as the starter set ones, but...

 Galas wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I am a completionist. The existence of these 3 Plague Marine in such an exploitative, massively and unnecessarily overpriced package galls me.

Then what are you waiting for? Maybe they have the same DG bodies as the starter set ones, but...

I'm not proud, but I'm going to buy them. Hopefully the art and book stuff are cool. If it's actually a nice 'bonus' package then I can see it, but the minis still feel lazy.

 Prometheum5 wrote:


I'm not proud, but I'm going to buy them. Hopefully the art and book stuff are cool. If it's actually a nice 'bonus' package then I can see it, but the minis still feel lazy.

If this move is successful, nothing will stop them. Do as you wish, but remember your (limited) power as a consumer.

 usernamesareannoying wrote:

look at the plaguebearers in the DI novel.

Or don't, as that would require you to read that godawful novel...



I'm liking the look of most of this stuff. Wasn't sold on Mortarion to begin with, but I think he's growing on me.

Which is good, as that's probably the only way I'm likely to get one, at this point...

Where are the 3 plague marines mentioned/pictured? I am not seeing them.

 ph34r wrote:
Where are the 3 plague marines mentioned/pictured? I am not seeing them.

I think GW would prefer if we'd start focusing on Primaris marines in this thread instead of Death Guard.

 Galas wrote:
6th edition of Warhammer Fantasy was pretty famous for is GRIMDARK EVERYTHING!

Bretonnia transform from the idealistic medieval france version of 5th edition with noble knights and ladys and peasants that with honour and valor become knights and nobles, to a medieval hellhole where the nobles had a 90% tax in the peasants and everyone was poor and die all the time. The same happened to Wood Elves.

They changed that with 8th edition, infamous for his "No guys, Dark Elves aren't bad guys, they are just Misunderstood. Plus Malekith was the real Phoenix King all along!"

The problem is not if it is grimdark or not grimdark. Is when they lost sight of their roots and take itself very seriously as Wonderwolf said. Grimdark doesn't mean that everything is bad and very very serious. Is darkness in a hyperbolic and ironic way.

The Bretonnian and Wood Elf objections are my favourite, given they both got "prettied up" around 4th and the grinding 'orrible oppressed peasants/spiteful and fickle creatures shtick was a return to their earlier form. You can still find crustly old WHFB fans in the groggiest parts of the online fandom that lament the addition of even a teeny little bit of Arthurian legend to the Bretonnia they still cleave to where it was basically Medieval France But Worse In Every Way And Also Chaos, even the grimdarkified version of knightly mythology.

Personally I quite enjoyed "Prime Grimdark" times, the tail end of 2nd 40K through 3rd and circa 6th Ed WHFB produced some of GW's best art, game design, and fiction; some say it was 100% SRS BSNS but there was still plenty of tongue firmly in cheek through the 90's and early oughts it was just a tad less obvious and, IMO, less juvenile than the earlier "har har the orc did a smelly fart"/Obiwan Sherlock Cluseau stuff - GorkaMorka was the opposite of po-faced, Mordheim was packed full of mental surrealism, Necromunda was often batgak crazy etc etc. It was after that, when the style changed into what people came to use Ward as a shorthand for, that things lost the sense of the absurd and that wasn't in the pursuit of grimdark but of minimising it, of crafting a version of the settings where the in-fiction propaganda version of Marines and the Imperium(and most of WHFB) began to replace the cynical, wry, subversive prior versions in the actual writing.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I am a completionist. The existence of these 3 Plague Marine in such an exploitative, massively and unnecessarily overpriced package galls me.

Yeah GW has been doing alright this year but this one puts a bad taste in my mouth. Just for some retooled sculpts and paper. Makes SW Legion look even better, maybe some competition on the market will be healthy.

I'll probably be grilled for this one, but...

I feel that nostalgia speaks more than content to a lot of people. I go back to read old lore, look at old art, and have trouble finding anything objectively better than what we have now. The tone might be different but that's a matter of preference, not quality. I think people rose-goggle Warhammer fluff a LOT and that while it may not be great now it isn't actually any worse. Further, the fluff of a universe as large and long-lived as Warhammer simply won't be as good as something constrained to a few novels, single game, etc. It's simply impossible for all of the content to be high-quality all of the time, other settings that are as widespread and long lived inevitably suffer in the same way. Many people end up dissapointed with fluff they would enjoy if their expectations were simply more realistic.

Now before I get jumped on, this does not mean all Warhammer fluff is good, bad, or uniform in any manner. This does not mean I feel any criticism is invalid, or that everyone who dislikes recent fluff developments is wrong. Just that many people build up their memory of older versions into something better than what the reality was, or ever could be.

 Yodhrin wrote:


The Bretonnian and Wood Elf objections are my favourite, given they both got "prettied up" around 4th and the grinding 'orrible oppressed peasants/spiteful and fickle creatures shtick was a return to their earlier form. You can still find crustly old WHFB fans in the groggiest parts of the online fandom that lament the addition of even a teeny little bit of Arthurian legend to the Bretonnia they still cleave to where it was basically Medieval France But Worse In Every Way And Also Chaos, even the grimdarkified version of knightly mythology.

Personally I quite enjoyed "Prime Grimdark" times, the tail end of 2nd 40K through 3rd and circa 6th Ed WHFB produced some of GW's best art, game design, and fiction; some say it was 100% SRS BSNS but there was still plenty of tongue firmly in cheek through the 90's and early oughts it was just a tad less obvious and, IMO, less juvenile than the earlier "har har the orc did a smelly fart"/Obiwan Sherlock Cluseau stuff - GorkaMorka was the opposite of po-faced, Mordheim was packed full of mental surrealism, Necromunda was often batgak crazy etc etc. It was after that, when the style changed into what people came to use Ward as a shorthand for, that things lost the sense of the absurd and that wasn't in the pursuit of grimdark but of minimising it, of crafting a version of the settings where the in-fiction propaganda version of Marines and the Imperium(and most of WHFB) began to replace the cynical, wry, subversive prior versions in the actual writing.

This is all true. Speaking in general, and to reference what I posted above about the parallelisms with cinema and directors, good writing can be, too, walk the fine line between different tones and genres in order to create something unique and well executed, elegant even.
As an example, I strongly suggest to read how the fluff was not only written, but conceived and presented between the 3rd edition and the 5th edition Necron Codex. The changes are well beyond how the race is imagined (and the personal tastes about it), and are iconic of the stylistic shift (and the loss of skill). I cannot help to think that older writers were simply people with a better education.

Concerning the art, I just refuse to discuss it. Old art was visionary, inspired and inspiring, it gave more than a more representation of an individual or a scene - you got an expansion, a glimpse at the universe or at least a strong suggestion about the overall tone. Modern art is, with few exceptions, coldly technical at best, or a deviantart-tier representation of the models at its worst, often mediocre in technique and style.

So yeah, no rose-tinted glasses, old stuff was, in many (not all) aspects better. Only rule writing has always ben schizophrenic

$70 dollary-doos for 3 marine models? Yeah how about no, GW. Especially since the New Primaris models are in 5 packs and are $55 Aussie...

One thing I'm noticing with all of these new Nurgle models is that they all borrow elements from each other, similar poses or you take an arm and simply put it on the other side of the body and what not... I know it's nit picky and it's probably saved them money whilst still making each model unique, I just sort of keep seeing it after having bought the DI set and the extra Nurgle models (including the PW) that have followed.

I love them and it gives me reasons to convert them it just also somehow feels a bit sloppy and lazy on their behalf.

Edit: Off-Topic

I will not defend the price of this exclusive DG 3-pack (not possible in my opinion), but one thing really has to stop. This nonsense:

 Marine_With_Heart wrote:
One thing I'm noticing with all of these new Nurgle models is that they all borrow elements from each other, similar poses or you take an arm and simply put it on the other side of the body and what not... I know it's nit picky and it's probably saved them money whilst still making each model unique, I just sort of keep seeing it after having bought the DI set and the extra Nurgle models (including the PW) that have followed.

I love them and it gives me reasons to convert them it just also somehow feels a bit sloppy and lazy on their behalf.

Apart from similar poses this is just not true. Look at the models (or pictures of them) - and really look at them, instead of a short glance. Apart from two models from the DI set (which share identical bodies and backpacks), and the odd part of a backpack here and there, none of the Plaguemarines so far have "shared elements". Similar details are spread over all models, not identical ones though. Id that is an issue your you though, I wonder what you have to say about the SM range... "oh noes, only copies of the same one model!!11"?

I just wished people would stop with the hyperbole. Complain about the release schedule or the prices - there are some issues with both. But GW giving you new models? Don't you have real problems in life?

I still can't get over the pricing of this guy. £18 for a unit upgrade, £7 more than most of the named Blood Angel characters.


Almost makes the £25 for these 3 seem reasonable!

 bubber wrote:
I still can't get over the pricing of this guy. £18 for a unit upgrade, £7 more than most of the named Blood Angel characters.


Almost makes the £25 for these 3 seem reasonable!

The price of clampacks is GW's effort to support the converting community, similarly the price of collector's DG isn't for three random plague marines but for three characters that you will convert from them!

 Darnok wrote:
I will not defend the price of this exclusive DG 3-pack (not possible in my opinion), but one thing really has to stop. This nonsense:

 Marine_With_Heart wrote:
One thing I'm noticing with all of these new Nurgle models is that they all borrow elements from each other, similar poses or you take an arm and simply put it on the other side of the body and what not... I know it's nit picky and it's probably saved them money whilst still making each model unique, I just sort of keep seeing it after having bought the DI set and the extra Nurgle models (including the PW) that have followed.

I love them and it gives me reasons to convert them it just also somehow feels a bit sloppy and lazy on their behalf.

Apart from similar poses this is just not true. Look at the models (or pictures of them) - and really look at them, instead of a short glance. Apart from two models from the DI set (which share identical bodies and backpacks), and the odd part of a backpack here and there, none of the Plaguemarines so far have "shared elements". Similar details are spread over all models, not identical ones though. Id that is an issue your you though, I wonder what you have to say about the SM range... "oh noes, only copies of the same one model!!11"?

I just wished people would stop with the hyperbole. Complain about the release schedule or the prices - there are some issues with both. But GW giving you new models? Don't you have real problems in life?

I disagree here buddy - the three new chaps in the crazy expensive kit are mirrored models with tweaks from the DI set. Its fairly clear when you match them to their mirror that both came from the same stock design, mirrored, and then details tweaked - ie helmet, swapped backpacks from the stock packs, moved the damage to the armour. There is more than casual similarity between the matched pairs - fundamentally they are the same snap fit

If you consider buying the webstore exclusive set just wait for the 10-model PM kit. Maybe we can build nearly identical models with it. We only need the heads.

The left-handed meltagun is a nice feature. But this is nothing we couldn't replicate. I chopped up one of my DI Plaguemarine squads, a Plaguecaster and a Blightbringer so I have bodies, arms and other bits to use with the multipart kit. It should be available at the end of September or early October.

I was quite happy to see these are just basic troopers and not HQ choices or other models you actually need for your army.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I'll probably be grilled for this one, but...

I feel that nostalgia speaks more than content to a lot of people. I go back to read old lore, look at old art, and have trouble finding anything objectively better than what we have now. The tone might be different but that's a matter of preference, not quality. I think people rose-goggle Warhammer fluff a LOT and that while it may not be great now it isn't actually any worse. Further, the fluff of a universe as large and long-lived as Warhammer simply won't be as good as something constrained to a few novels, single game, etc. It's simply impossible for all of the content to be high-quality all of the time, other settings that are as widespread and long lived inevitably suffer in the same way. Many people end up dissapointed with fluff they would enjoy if their expectations were simply more realistic.

Now before I get jumped on, this does not mean all Warhammer fluff is good, bad, or uniform in any manner. This does not mean I feel any criticism is invalid, or that everyone who dislikes recent fluff developments is wrong. Just that many people build up their memory of older versions into something better than what the reality was, or ever could be.

It's not so much that the old fluff was "Grrrrrrrreat!", it's more that the new fluff is so bad by comparison. Nothing released in 8th ed (or late 7th ed) that I've read (mainly fluff add ons to rule books: Traitor's hate, Wrath of Magnus, Dark Imperium, etc.) has really been that interesting to me. I'm finding the same is happening with the art: the art pieces from 3rd/4th/5th/6th were never going to end up in an art gallery but they look so much better than the new art that's been released.


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 FrothingMuppet wrote:

Spoiler:

I dont know how to load these images to Dakka so heres the link to the Imgur album

http://imgur.com/a/ORghA

You have to use [*img] [*/img] (without the stars) and an url to the image (http://i.imgur.com/zbajV5l.jpg) in between:

 FrothingMuppet wrote:
[...]

I disagree here buddy - the three new chaps in the crazy expensive kit are mirrored models with tweaks from the DI set. Its fairly clear when you match them to their mirror that both came from the same stock design, mirrored, and then details tweaked - ie helmet, swapped backpacks from the stock packs, moved the damage to the armour. There is more than casual similarity between the matched pairs - fundamentally they are the same snap fit

Spoiler:

Thank you for the comparison image, as it proves my point: apart from the poses and a few odd details these models are fundamentally different sculpts. Of course the digital sculpting process and some copying plaed a role in the similarities, but they are more different than a big part of the SM range - as just one example. How one can come to something like the bolded statement above is way beyond me - we must be looking at different pictures.

Wow. You weren't kidding. They are mirrored.

Will the WD article that comes with it need to be read using a mirror?

Fundamentally different sculpts?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wow. You weren't kidding. They are mirrored.

Will the WD article that comes with it need to be read using a mirror?

That's new, isn't it? GW's been working with CAD and asset libraries for a while and it's probably a big part of why they can churn out so many releases. And it's also not like this is a CAD only thing. Twenty years ago they would take a metal character and resculpt wargear and some details and you'd get a very similar model, too, getting more mileage out of a sculptor's work.

But actually going and just mirroring the basic model before sticking different bits on? Wow. That's something.

A bit of a drive by posting as I'm busy but, has anyone already pointed out that the left hand of those limited Death Guard looks like they have copied the design for Chaplain Cassius from the Overkill box?


Automatically Appended Next Post:


A bit of a drive by posting as I'm busy but, has anyone already pointed out that the left hand of those limited Death Guard looks like they have copied the design for Chaplain Cassius from the Overkill box?


Automatically Appended Next Post:


A bit of a drive by posting as I'm busy but, has anyone already pointed out that the left hand of those limited Death Guard looks like they have copied the design for Chaplain Cassius from the Overkill box?

Corvus Belli does similiar pose cloning with their CAD stuff. The get a lot of flak for it, too. If I remember my examples right they use some poses for totally different types of models in a few cases and the cloning still shows.

Since GW was milling a new injection mold for those guys anyway, a few pose tweaks should've been done. Even other premade parts switched out for 1:1 mirror stuff would go a long way and the guy based on lamprey-mouth shows that. The right arm seems to be a cloned part of the DI Marine with bolter slung under the arm and the knife arm might be taken from one of the other 3-pack Marines. Adjusting the poses a tiny bit after mirroring them or tacking on existing CAD limbs would make a huge difference, too.

It might be laziness. It might have to do with the mould making process where existing parts are already designed for cuts, undercuts and sprue layout. Maybe both.


At the GW asking price this is all academic for me, at almost tripple the price of the other 3-pack (even more if you buy the mini starter which also had prints included;, retailer discounts over MO prices not even considered) they are both comparatively and in absolute monetary terms wayyy to expensive IMO. And I like them more than their DI counterparts! 32€ is getting into heavily discounted SC territory or could buy me an old school regiment box from the few that are left (still need some Kroot).

Maybe GW should go back to multi-part, multi-pose kits and cloning wouldn't be as much of an issue. The trend towards monopose has really undermined the hobby aspect, in that all armies are now looking more and more the same.

 Binabik15 wrote:
Corvus Belli does similiar pose cloning with their CAD stuff. The get a lot of flak for it, too. If I remember my examples right they use some poses for totally different types of models in a few cases and the cloning still shows.

It was pretty common among GW's metal miniatures. I mean, the best examples are the Necromunda range and the metal Guard ranges, which were full of similar models with slightly different positions/weapon load outs, all based around the same 4-5 core miniatures.

And that was fine. It's just the way metal models were done, same as the "2D" nature of making metal minis across as single plane to decrease the amount of parts needed (the Phoenix Lords are great examples of this).

With mirroring plastic minis like this? Seems kinda cheap... or expensive, really, given it's seventy-fething-dollars for 3 of the damned things.

 Geifer wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wow. You weren't kidding. They are mirrored.

Will the WD article that comes with it need to be read using a mirror?

That's new, isn't it? GW's been working with CAD and asset libraries for a while and it's probably a big part of why they can churn out so many releases. And it's also not like this is a CAD only thing. Twenty years ago they would take a metal character and resculpt wargear and some details and you'd get a very similar model, too, getting more mileage out of a sculptor's work.

But actually going and just mirroring the basic model before sticking different bits on? Wow. That's something.

Part of me thinks that perhaps these were alternative kits or weapon combos or other designs for marines that were cut from the DI box or something for balance or not as preferred over the marines they did include.

[quote=FrothingMuppet 732375 9579370 cd168907df57fc0f9a0faa2cdf941460.jpgIts fairly clear when you match them to their mirror that both came from the same stock design, mirrored, and then details tweaked - ie helmet, swapped backpacks from the stock packs, moved the damage to the armour.