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O'Shovah's Desciple wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why are people complaining about poor movement? He's got 12" by himself...

Because apparently everything needs to move like Magnus. Which is a ridiculous expectation. I think we can all agree Magnus is a bit busted right now.

Magnus dies with weight of fire easily...

Morty? With DR? Seems like he'll last longer than Magnus...

Maybe the brothers need to tag-team in the army. Magnus might last longer...

Arachnofiend wrote:The toughness debuff could potentially be pretty potent; it makes Blight Launchers and Flails of Corruption wound medium vehicles on 4's and MEQ's on 2's. Add in the plague weapon rule for reroll 1's and your plague marines are pretty lethal.

O'Shovah's Desciple wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why are people complaining about poor movement? He's got 12" by himself...

Because apparently everything needs to move like Magnus. Which is a ridiculous expectation. I think we can all agree Magnus is a bit busted right now.

These guys get it. That Toughness debuff will really make a difference combined with the Plague Weapon abilities, and moving 12" is pretty fast compared to the rest of the Death Guard lineup as it stands. Even Foetid Bloat Drones only move 10". Comparing Mortarion to Magnus is not a great idea because Magnus needs a visit from the nerf bat and will probably get one either when the TS codex drops or in Chapter Approved, if not sooner. I don't want Mortarion to be broken good; I want him to be playable, even competitive, but not like Magnus who is undercosted by at least 50 points.

Nevermind my page didn't refresh apparently...

Anyways I'm pretty pumped for Death guard. Being the first Chaos Cult Army Codex this edition means I'm starting a new army

 whembly wrote:

O'Shovah's Desciple wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why are people complaining about poor movement? He's got 12" by himself...

Because apparently everything needs to move like Magnus. Which is a ridiculous expectation. I think we can all agree Magnus is a bit busted right now.

Magnus dies with weight of fire easily...

Morty? With DR? Seems like he'll last longer than Magnus...

Maybe the brothers need to tag-team in the army. Magnus might last longer...

That is what I was thinking tbh. In a pure weight of fire game, yeah Morty wins for sure. Man taking Magnus and Morty together with like a LoC or something would be awesome! I think I will leave myself the ability to summon that way I can get what I need on the fly.

Has anyone else noticed something nice about the Mortarion model?

There are several pictures of him now, and his weapons seem to be switching hands. Some of them have the pistol in the right hand, some in the left.

These aren't just mirror images either, his armor stays looking the same. That means there must be a lefty and righty version of each of his weapons.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Has anyone else noticed something nice about the Mortarion model?

There are several pictures of him now, and his weapons seem to be switching hands. Some of them have the pistol in the right hand, some in the left.

These aren't just mirror images either, his armor stays looking the same. That means there must be a lefty and righty version of each of his weapons.

This was revealed to be exactly true just recently. You'll get 2 plasma guns poses and 2 scythe poses in the box.

Also, who is excited to actually run Morty, Magnus, Fulgrim and Angron at the same time??i sure as hell am.

I just hope c.c. isn't his only quality only to then still be completely outmatched by RG and his ridiculous sword at what, 5 power less or so? (Don't have the book on me)

Can't wait for the reveal but Im not too optimistic. Lets not forget RG is a fantastic force multiplier and gets his sick c.c. skills for almost no extra charge.

Could argue both RG and Magnus are undercosted but yeah, let's hope that Scythe really is a Primarch killer.
Maybe it shuts down opposing special rules in base to base. That'd really silence RG

Maybe his Scythe does Mortal Wounds for each hit. That'd be good.

Codex screen grabs should be this time next week. Can't wait.

 XT-1984 wrote:
Maybe his Scythe does Mortal Wounds for each hit. That'd be good.

Codex screen grabs should be this time next week. Can't wait.

Or maybe he heals a wound each time he kills a model with it

I'd imagine the scythe would have something like "instead of making the normal number attacks, Mortarian can make d3 attacks for every model in base contact with him".

Maybe the damage of each attack spills over, like the flails

He's awfully expensive. Given how overcosted DG have been historically, I'm not expecting him to be very playable :(

zerosignal wrote:
He's awfully expensive. Given how overcosted DG have been historically, I'm not expecting him to be very playable :(

What do you mean historically? They've always been on the top end of competitive CSM...

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

zerosignal wrote:
He's awfully expensive. Given how overcosted DG have been historically, I'm not expecting him to be very playable :(

What do you mean historically? They've always been on the top end of competitive CSM...

I mean, considering the entire army was overcosted for the better part of two editions that's not saying much. Being top end of CSM competitive is kinda laughable as a statement meant to imply something has value.

That being said, I assume he means mostly in 8th because every unique DG unit was overcosted in the index, as well as most of the stuff we shared with the main army.


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O'Shovah's Desciple wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why are people complaining about poor movement? He's got 12" by himself...

Because apparently everything needs to move like Magnus. Which is a ridiculous expectation. I think we can all agree Magnus is a bit busted right now.

Well, when you are an exclusively close combat focused model that contributes nothing of note outside charge/close combat range, cost a fourth of the armies value, have a degrading statline, and can't hide shield yourself with screening troops, you do need to.

Also, busted? The hasn't even appeared in any winning tournament lists Magnus? The not even really that competitive but at least is something people attempt to run him in tournaments, unlike pretty much everything else tied to CSM, Magnus? Even that's mostly because he has synergy with demons.

No Magnus is not busted. Magnus is not even close to busted. This claim is hilarious. Magnus is what a unit that costs 20% of your points should do.

SilverAlien wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

zerosignal wrote:
He's awfully expensive. Given how overcosted DG have been historically, I'm not expecting him to be very playable :(

What do you mean historically? They've always been on the top end of competitive CSM...

I mean, considering the entire army was overcosted for the better part of two editions that's not saying much. Being top end of CSM competitive is kinda laughable as a statement meant to imply something has value.

That being said, I assume he means mostly in 8th because every unique DG unit was overcosted in the index, as well as most of the stuff we shared with the main army.

Admittedly, the CSM Codizes from 4th and 6th edition weren't great, but Slayer Fan is right in stating that many things at least became okay when having the Mark of Nurgle, plague Marines, Bikers, spawn to name a few. After Traitor Legions even more so.
Applying the term "historically" to 8th edition only is ridiculous.

Tomorrow is the DG stratagem info right?

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Tomorrow is the DG stratagem info right?

Yep, plus warlord traits and psychic powers I think.

Neronoxx wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
Has anyone else noticed something nice about the Mortarion model?

There are several pictures of him now, and his weapons seem to be switching hands. Some of them have the pistol in the right hand, some in the left.

These aren't just mirror images either, his armor stays looking the same. That means there must be a lefty and righty version of each of his weapons.

This was revealed to be exactly true just recently. You'll get 2 plasma guns poses and 2 scythe poses in the box.

Also, who is excited to actually run Morty, Magnus, Fulgrim and Angron at the same time??i sure as hell am.

So that is why hes holding silence so stupidly, hes holding it like a gun, you dont get 2 of each weapon, you just change hilt.

FudgeDumper wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
Has anyone else noticed something nice about the Mortarion model?

There are several pictures of him now, and his weapons seem to be switching hands. Some of them have the pistol in the right hand, some in the left.

These aren't just mirror images either, his armor stays looking the same. That means there must be a lefty and righty version of each of his weapons.

This was revealed to be exactly true just recently. You'll get 2 plasma guns poses and 2 scythe poses in the box.

Also, who is excited to actually run Morty, Magnus, Fulgrim and Angron at the same time??i sure as hell am.

So that is why hes holding silence so stupidly, hes holding it like a gun, you dont get 2 of each weapon, you just change hilt.

If you look at the two configurations, they are clearly different arms/hands. Even Silence looks different in the two poses.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

zerosignal wrote:
He's awfully expensive. Given how overcosted DG have been historically, I'm not expecting him to be very playable :(

What do you mean historically? They've always been on the top end of competitive CSM...

I mean, considering the entire army was overcosted for the better part of two editions that's not saying much. Being top end of CSM competitive is kinda laughable as a statement meant to imply something has value.

That being said, I assume he means mostly in 8th because every unique DG unit was overcosted in the index, as well as most of the stuff we shared with the main army.

Admittedly, the CSM Codizes from 4th and 6th edition weren't great, but Slayer Fan is right in stating that many things at least became okay when having the Mark of Nurgle, plague Marines, Bikers, spawn to name a few. After Traitor Legions even more so.
Applying the term "historically" to 8th edition only is ridiculous.

Glad you could get to responding before I could.

For those thinking that he is going to die to mass lascannons and missile launchers - we haven't seen the rest of the Codex yet. We haven't seen Warlord Traits, Strategems - heck, he might be able to pass wounds to nearby Deathshroud Terminators. Let's not go overboard on one out-of-context statline.

 puma713 wrote:
For those thinking that he is going to die to mass lascannons and missile launchers - we haven't seen the rest of the Codex yet. We haven't seen Warlord Traits, Strategems - heck, he might be able to pass wounds to nearby Deathshroud Terminators. Let's not go overboard on one out-of-context statline.

Yes, if deathguard have the ability to infiltrate like alpha legion and raven guard that might help, but that's unlikely. Yes if his warlord trait is really good it might help. If death shroud terminators can soak wounds... that probably won't help because there is a limit to how much you can pour into an already pricey unit trying to make it work.

There are things that could make him decent... but there is absolutely nothing to be excited over either. Everything they showed us indicates he was garbage and should be laughed at.

We can only discuss what we see. What we saw was garbage. What's worse, this was an attempt to get us excited about how cool he was, and that was the best they could manage. That doesn't bode well. Warning signs are a thing, extrapolation is a thing, it's quite likely morty is a display piece it's very good to discuss this because some people might've been planning to preorder him Saturday and pointing out he quite possibly won't be worth using might mean they'll want to hold off.

SilverAlien wrote:

 puma713 wrote:
For those thinking that he is going to die to mass lascannons and missile launchers - we haven't seen the rest of the Codex yet. We haven't seen Warlord Traits, Strategems - heck, he might be able to pass wounds to nearby Deathshroud Terminators. Let's not go overboard on one out-of-context statline.

Yes, if deathguard have the ability to infiltrate like alpha legion and raven guard that might help, but that's unlikely. Yes if his warlord trait is really good it might help. If death shroud terminators can soak wounds... that probably won't help because there is a limit to how much you can pour into an already pricey unit trying to make it work.

There are things that could make him decent... but there is absolutely nothing to be excited over either. Everything they showed us indicates he was garbage and should be laughed at.

We can only discuss what we see. What we saw was garbage. What's worse, this was an attempt to get us excited about how cool he was, and that was the best they could manage. That doesn't bode well. Warning signs are a thing, extrapolation is a thing, it's quite likely morty is a display piece it's very good to discuss this because some people might've been planning to preorder him Saturday and pointing out he quite possibly won't be worth using might mean they'll want to hold off.

Would you like some pepper with that lethal dose of salt?
Feel free to discuss half of what makes a unit good like its the end of the world.

Except what we saw wasn't garbage and we don't even have the full context yet.

Ah yes, pointing out how bad a unit looks is clearly the end of the world. The most awful thing I've said was "if you were going to preorder him for his presumed gameplay value, probably wait."

Also, his rough price, stat line and the overwhelming majority, if not totality, of his special abilities is at least 3/4ths of the unit. We are missing weapons and maybe a single additional special rule.

What do you want me to say? "Hey, everything we saw was extremely underwhelming and GW has been overpricing DG stuff all edition, but I'm sure he be great despite that with no evidence?" I'm sorry if I'm interrupting the unwarranted hype train, but all they showed us were fairly bad aura abilities and an unimpressive stat line for his price. We can either not discuss the article/teaser at all, or we can talk about how bad morty looks. Because nothing in it indicated morty was in anyway useful, good, or worth using.

SilverAlien wrote:
I'm sorry if I'm interrupting the unwarranted hype train

Must have missed that amongst the sea of 'looks terrible'. The hype train runs about as far as the 'wait and see, maybe there's something else that will improve him' stop. Barely gets a rhythm going. Not even one blow of its horn.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Except what we saw wasn't garbage and we don't even have the full context yet.

He has a worse statline than Magnus, costs more, and has exceptionally unimpressive aura abilities. I'm not sure how you can say what we saw wasn't garbage. You can say "maybe he has some great things they didn't mention that might make him worth using" and I agree that's possible albeit unlikely imo. But what they showed us was exceptionally unimpressive.

SilverAlien wrote:
Ah yes, pointing out how bad a unit looks is clearly the end of the world. The most awful thing I've said was "if you were going to preorder him for his presumed gameplay value, probably wait."

Also, his rough price, stat line and the overwhelming majority, if not totality, of his special abilities is at least 3/4ths of the unit. We are missing weapons and maybe a single additional special rule.

What do you want me to say? "Hey, everything we saw was extremely underwhelming and GW has been overpricing DG stuff all edition, but I'm sure he be great despite that with no evidence?" I'm sorry if I'm interrupting the unwarranted hype train, but all they showed us were fairly bad aura abilities and an unimpressive stat line for his price. We can either not discuss the article/teaser at all, or we can talk about how bad morty looks. Because nothing in it indicated morty was in anyway useful, good, or worth using.

It isn't the end of the world when it's correct. The issue is you're not correct. At all.

Yeah Jesus, the salt is real haha. Magnus is broken as he is. So Mortarion being 50 extra points = utter garbage? Mortarion looks good from what they've shown. He just doesn't look broken OP yet. But we haven't seen his weapons and all that other stuff like everyone else is saying.
Maybe we should chill and wait to see the full Dex before jumping to the conclusion that there is nothing to be excited for and that Morty is just for show.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SilverAlien wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Except what we saw wasn't garbage and we don't even have the full context yet.

He has a worse statline than Magnus, costs more, and has exceptionally unimpressive aura abilities. I'm not sure how you can say what we saw wasn't garbage. You can say "maybe he has some great things they didn't mention that might make him worth using" and I agree that's possible albeit unlikely imo. But what they showed us was exceptionally unimpressive.

Exceptionally unimpressive auras...? You're saying -1 to every unit's toughness within 7" is unimpressive? That 7" Orbital bombardment every turn is unimpressive? Man, what units are you using, because I'm clearly missing out

SilverAlien wrote:

 Horus Luperkermit wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:
Oh right we did get a power cost. So that'd put him around 450-500 points roughly. That's... well silence better be absolutely amazing.

Im sure he will be pretty good even for his astronomical high point cost, I'm more worried about not being able to field anything else in the army if you take him. Death Guard units in general are already so expensive im not sure how you are supposed to field a 24 power model

Im not sure why you would assume that? Unless his wargear is amazing he won't even be as good as Magnus judging from what we've seen, despite costing more. Even then he's a massive target with mediocre durability, slow, can't hide behind troops, and his only redeeming features are tied into being very close to the enemy/melee. Maybe he gets his little teleport ability from HH, that might help.

Honestly though, I really wouldn't be worried about how you'd fit him into your army list right now. I have a feeling it'll be a non issue.

You mean more durable than Magnus right? So if people have problems killing Magnus they will have more killing Morty.

Lets not forget that all Manreaper scythes are S+3 but Silence is HUGE and Morty looks to have a melta pistol on steroids that he calls Lantern. OH and Nurglings that also provide more CC attacks.


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 Horus Luperkermit wrote:

broxus wrote:
Mortarion is considered a Lord of War choice and not a HQs. Honestly with his 3+ save I don't think he will survive long on the table.

He's about as tanky as Magnus

Also more expensive, slower base speed and can't use warp time, and less useful outside of melee due to no friendly aura and presumably weaker psychic powers.

I know we all want to be excited, but it's good to keep things in perspective. What they showed us was bad, getting excited right now is just begging to be disappointed later.

More tankier than Magnus.

3+/4++/5+++ and we have not seen his Primarch power which I suspect is Rerolls of 1's for hits and Disgustingly Resilient.

From there he is actually stronger than Magnus in CC because his aura works on EVERYTHING! You got a Predator in 7" well it is T6 atm. Not to mention that the "Maybe mini smite" ability happens EVERY fight phase and not just your own. . .

As for Lascannons, you need just about 24 of those supported by a full reroll to hit character just to take this guy down.

Warptime can get gotten through the access of a Demon Prince with wings or a sorcerer which I believe can have a jetpack.