Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
There is nothing wrong with reducing some options if we are getting newer, more interesting ones. They are adding all kinds of new options that have never been available before. Clevers and Baleswords and gigantic Flails. And there are more than that available as well.
The Flail is the only new thing. The swords and axes are just 'Plague' power swords and axes. And oh, hey, look once again to the listed examples and see how they too have some unique options they can take as well as older pre-existing ones that don't completely invalidate armies that have been around 6 editions.
And in response to your first few examples, I would say that yes it does make those units in those armies extremely boring. Having Space Wolf terminaotrs who kit out the exact same as Blood ANgel terminators and Salamander Terminators is boring. But, something like a Wulfen? With it's extremely unique model and rules and weapon options which aren't available anywhere else? That is interesting and makes playing against a space wolf player decidedly different than playing against any other marine player.
And the catch is that the Blood Angel, SW and DA players didn't have units completely invalidated and written off, to be constantly fobbed off with 'DURR HURR FIELD THEM AS GENERIC TERMINATORS WITH X' because the generic armaments were still viable. Perhaps you missed that. I've not got generic Nurgle Terminators. I've got Death Guard Terminators. They have been painted in the same scheme as the rest of their Legion. They match their Legion in aesthetic, from the pustules, the tones of green, the basing and the weathered weaponry.
Now, DG players will have these new, unique options as well which set us distinctly apart from the rest of the CSM line.
Because Less is More, right? Because differences in abilities, stats etc are factored in through points (wait, they are) so clearly you gotta gut even more out to be diverse, right?
I understand why people are disappointed, but this kind of thing makes the game more diverse and more interesting to play.
You do realise you are hardline stating that reducing options is making something more diverse, right? Giving less choice makes things less diverse. If there is no choice between A, B and C then really, it's not diverse at all.
To your second point, my actual position is that I think it would have been much more interesting if those SM Chapters had access to terminators with entirely distinct rules and weapon options in the first place. I wouldn't really mind if Salamanders lost the ability to take lightning claws and Blood Angels lost the ability to take Flamers or something. Give them more unique models, give them more unique weapons that fulfill similar roles.
So, yes, in my mind reducing options is more diverse because it makes it so the Black Legion army I play against isn't functionally identical to the Thousand Sons army I play against. Thousand Sons have less weapon options but they also have access to visually distinct models and styles of play that are specifically possible because of their unique rules AND limitations.
If you want to play a game where every single army is basically identical 30k is right there waiting for you.
For me, I'm disappointed that I'm losing the two squads of terminators I have but I'm happy to see fantastic new models with new, distinct weapons. I'll be happy to start up a new Legion with some perfectly legal CSM terminators along with the other models I can't use any more. Again, I'm perfectly fine with this because it means my army is going to be visually distinct and play differently because it has different limitations while simultaneously having different options.
To be perfectly honest with you, I would love to see a 40k game where any army you put down on the table plays completely distinctly and looks different too. I don't like that the only differentiator is colors for have the SM chapters. I fully support limiting the options for some of those armies if it means they also get some brand new options and models to replace them.
OH NO! Planets with STC's have access to the same things others do! I guess a Plague Planet in the middle of the Warp, controlled and evolved by Papa Nurgle should be afforded the same benefits as the Imperium, you know, because Chaos has Storm Shields, Thunder Hammers, and all those things. It's not like their fluff has them in cobbled together armor and scrambling to steal replacements.
Ok, now that you've attempted sass go read the background fluff on the Death Guard as a legion. All of it. The IA article, the stuff in the 2nd edition codex, Titan Legions, the 3.5 book and the more recent 30k stuff. I'll wait.
You'll find there's one constant - the Death Guard always maintained their equipment. It was simple, not very ornate and functional. Even AFTER their fall to Chaos the weapons and equipment they used are simple to maintain and functional. They're not scavenging armour. They're not desperate for new equipment, weapons or gear. The Death Guard actually maintain their equipment. Because it is simple and straightforward, because it is maintained and functional it isn't rotting away into nothingness.
If you really think that 'OH BUT THEY WORSHIP NURGLE' is a reason to cull options that are still present on other units in the same army then why not jump the shark and model your army with no weapons or armour whatsoever. Because Decay isn't always physical ROT AND RUST. There's a more philosophical aspect with the Death Guard and there always has been - the decay of their very souls.
And you know what's really damn amusing? You try to quote the fact that they have the Plague Planet as a reason NOT to have a functional armoury and equipment.
Um....quite the opposite. The Legions that are scavenging armour, weapons and the like? Night Lords, Alpha Legion, Renegades in general - all of whom do not have their own world and thus do not have their own industry, space to store things and keep things or indeed a moment to settle down and actually maintain things. Those are mobile rag tag warbands or fleet based for the most part. Quite different from a Legion with its own planet.
You know, that was known for having well maintained equipment that though simple was functional.
Are they still making "Death Guard Havocs"?
Were they ever making Blood Angel or Dark Angel Devastators?
I'll just add right now that I'm actually disappointed that things like Chaos Lords and Sorcerors were included in the army without even a DR roll included. I would honestly have rather seen some more options for the Lord of Contagion or the Malignant Plaguecaster. I wouldn't have been sad if they didn't even include them in the codex.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/15 14:32:23
Qlanth wrote: I'll just add right now that I'm actually disappointed that things like Chaos Lords and Sorcerors were included in the army without even a DR roll included. I would honestly have rather seen some more options for the Lord of Contagion or the Malignant Plaguecaster. I wouldn't have been sad if they didn't even include them in the codex.
Really, they should have been rolled into the LoC and Plaguecaster entries and those should have been given more options. It would made far more sense - sure, we lose the Lord's reroll ability....but that is instead on the Daemon Prince. It's sort of a price to pay and hey, that would actually add variety to us rather than a cut and paste character which is inherently weaker than its surroundings.
I also feel Cultists could have been merged with Poxwalkers and options thrown in there. A bit more costly but a bit more reslient and again, a unique unit with a unique feel, not a cut and paste job that we got.
You mean when GW didn't have the ability to create a new codex with new models for that codex. When they had to make due with multi purpose kits so that they could have miniatures available.
You get why GW prices are the way they have been right? The new CEO took that and funneled it into R&D. Now they have more plastic models, can have BIGGER plastic models (where they needed FW resin for that mainly in the past) and can afford to make a new codex with 10+ new units with different bases.
No longer are the days when they need to use the same tank chassis for 4+ models. Now they can actually have variety abound.
Complain on how it hurts your hobby as you will but in the end, this is far better for us than anything. Now we can have actual Death Guard models that are unique and not just a parroted version of the CSM codex.
Hell, this means we could see add on to normal marine legions to diversify the Primaris
Do you want to count the amount of Rhino and Land Raider variants that use the same base chassis? Do you want to realise that 2 of these came in as recently as 6th edition? Or perhaps you want to count the amount of Eldar vehicles using a Falcon hull as a base? Or DE vehicles using a Raider hull as a base?
You realise why they do that right? It's about an aesthetic. About maintaining a constant, consistent appearance and even the newer stuff being sculpted is still using these older elements, often as a base for the same reasons.
And Death Guard models that are unique and not just parroted versions? Did you miss the Helbrute, Lord, Sorcerer and Possessed? Which could have EASILY had their profiles rolled into existing counterparts to add some...actual variety? Do you honestly think that half our units aren't literally just Plague versions of existing CSM units?
So unique. Much variety, wow.
Yes yes, because Codex: CSM v2 Plague Edition is so much more appealing and would make CSM players so happy to buy a brand new codex because it has all the better options.
Of course that won't make players salty or upset. No no of course not.
Half our units eh? Hmmm CSM has a non Plague Mortar? A non Plague Trike? Terminator Guard squads? A non Plague Primarch? Non Plague Zombies? A Non Plague non Chaos Lord with heavy CC limitations? A non Plague non Sorcerer caster with a unique casting for ability? Oh oh what about a non Plague Drone with a Fleshmower!
Wow, yea, I guess CSM does have all the non Ague versions of our stuff. Who knew.
Ohhh arguments on a time period where the CEO at the time stated they were a Model making Company and not a Game making company. Yea! Let's dig into that one.
So, now we have a CEO who is about combining the modeling aspect with the game aspect, the old CEO is now fully gone (though was being circumvented by the current CEO when possible), the new CEO is trying to make factions more diverse and unique (at least on the Chaos side, still early for the rest of the Marines) and is bringing out the big fluff monster Primarch leaving people to create more narrative and have more fun.
Well gosh darn, I guess them adding a small amount of Land Raider variants during 6th was big. Maybe as big as a WHOLE NEW TANK CHASSIS! /Le Gasp! Just think, the fortune spent in adding a sprue or two to existing boxes! It is completely comparable to a new tank with 2-4 new sprues that likely took 1-2 molds that run several thousands of dollars each to initially create. All for a niche faction with a niche market in an already expensive hobby when many players already have the models they want to ay with.
You mean when GW didn't have the ability to create a new codex with new models for that codex. When they had to make due with multi purpose kits so that they could have miniatures available.
You get why GW prices are the way they have been right? The new CEO took that and funneled it into R&D. Now they have more plastic models, can have BIGGER plastic models (where they needed FW resin for that mainly in the past) and can afford to make a new codex with 10+ new units with different bases.
No longer are the days when they need to use the same tank chassis for 4+ models. Now they can actually have variety abound.
Complain on how it hurts your hobby as you will but in the end, this is far better for us than anything. Now we can have actual Death Guard models that are unique and not just a parroted version of the CSM codex.
Hell, this means we could see add on to normal marine legions to diversify the Primaris
Do you want to count the amount of Rhino and Land Raider variants that use the same base chassis? Do you want to realise that 2 of these came in as recently as 6th edition? Or perhaps you want to count the amount of Eldar vehicles using a Falcon hull as a base? Or DE vehicles using a Raider hull as a base?
You realise why they do that right? It's about an aesthetic. About maintaining a constant, consistent appearance and even the newer stuff being sculpted is still using these older elements, often as a base for the same reasons.
I have to disagree here. Is obvius that if they do that is to put extra mileage to the same kits and moulds. If one kit allows to 7 different unit entries, is gonna sell much more than having 7 different kits to cover the same roster of units.
Theres no "aesthetic" or other kind of "good faith" reason to do that, just a marketing and economical reason, just the same as the reason why they have restricted the weapon options of Death Guard special Terminators.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
OH NO! Planets with STC's have access to the same things others do! I guess a Plague Planet in the middle of the Warp, controlled and evolved by Papa Nurgle should be afforded the same benefits as the Imperium, you know, because Chaos has Storm Shields, Thunder Hammers, and all those things. It's not like their fluff has them in cobbled together armor and scrambling to steal replacements.
Ok, now that you've attempted sass go read the background fluff on the Death Guard as a legion. All of it. The IA article, the stuff in the 2nd edition codex, Titan Legions, the 3.5 book and the more recent 30k stuff. I'll wait.
You'll find there's one constant - the Death Guard always maintained their equipment. It was simple, not very ornate and functional. Even AFTER their fall to Chaos the weapons and equipment they used are simple to maintain and functional. They're not scavenging armour. They're not desperate for new equipment, weapons or gear. The Death Guard actually maintain their equipment. Because it is simple and straightforward, because it is maintained and functional it isn't rotting away into nothingness.
If you really think that 'OH BUT THEY WORSHIP NURGLE' is a reason to cull options that are still present on other units in the same army then why not jump the shark and model your army with no weapons or armour whatsoever. Because Decay isn't always physical ROT AND RUST. There's a more philosophical aspect with the Death Guard and there always has been - the decay of their very souls.
And you know what's really damn amusing? You try to quote the fact that they have the Plague Planet as a reason NOT to have a functional armoury and equipment.
Um....quite the opposite. The Legions that are scavenging armour, weapons and the like? Night Lords, Alpha Legion, Renegades in general - all of whom do not have their own world and thus do not have their own industry, space to store things and keep things or indeed a moment to settle down and actually maintain things. Those are mobile rag tag warbands or fleet based for the most part. Quite different from a Legion with its own planet.
You know, that was known for having well maintained equipment that though simple was functional.
Are they still making "Death Guard Havocs"?
Were they ever making Blood Angel or Dark Angel Devastators?
Yes yes, because puss filled, pocked marked armor is well maintained and taken care of. Nurglings and necrotic mouths sprouting from the armor is "well maintained", because bodies literally fused with their armor have such an easy time in removing it and polishing it.
Yup, well taken care of.
Old fluff meet new fluff, want to take a guess at which one takes precedence?
Most of those mentioned legions have planets. Hell, I remember a book with Word Bearers complaining about armor and scavenging parts from fallen loyalists
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/15 14:52:52
I mean, it sucks to have your awesome conversions invalidated, but on the other hand don't you think the Biologus Putrifier is the coolest model ever released by GW?
I mean just look at it:
It has a head-water-bottle thing.
EmberlordofFire8 wrote: I mean, it sucks to have your awesome conversions invalidated, but on the other hand don't you think the Biologus Putrifier is the coolest model ever released by GW?
I mean just look at it:
It has a head-water-bottle thing.
Personally, I love that model. Too bad his rules suck.
Edit: Maybe they don't "suck", but they're definitely meh.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/15 15:57:48
WH40K Death Guard 5100 pts.
Daemons 3000 pts.
DT:70+S++G+M-B-I--Pw40K90-D++A++/eWD?R++T(D)DM+
28 successful trades in the Dakka Swap Shop! Check out my latest auction here!
Turns out people don't like having their armies/units invalidated for no good reason.
Who knew? *shrugs*
Seriously,
And there's a bunch of white knights that have the audacity to say that we are wrong for playing a totally fluffy army for the past what like 20 years?
For the record I don't even play Death Guard. But i'll be damned if I'm not going to say something when I see a lazy hack job from GW, just like I would congratulate the when they do something well.
The new DG codex doesn't have the options it should, and many of the units don't even have the special rules associated with the DG like sorcerers and possessed like some people pointed out.
Square Bases for Life!
AoS is pure garbage
Kill Primaris, Kill the Primarchs. They don't belong in 40K
40K is fantasy in space, not sci-fi
EmberlordofFire8 wrote: I mean, it sucks to have your awesome conversions invalidated, but on the other hand don't you think the Biologus Putrifier is the coolest model ever released by GW?
I mean just look at it:
It has a head-water-bottle thing.
Personally, I love that model. Too bad his rules suck.
He's the one that makes your bases better though isn't he?
Ghorros wrote: The moral of the story: Don't park your Imperial Knight in a field of Gretchin carrying power tools.
Marmatag wrote: All the while, my opponent is furious, throwing his codex on the floor, trying to slash his wrists with safety scissors.
I have to say I side with the folks being upset that their army has been largely invalidated. It's shamefully obvious that there's a large "force them to buy the new models" approach going on here. This, coupled with the "no rules without a precise kit" continued approach is really souring me on 40K pretty quickly. Is it easier and more approachable when they go buy this method? Sure. Buy this box. Use these weapons. Done.
From a hobbying, modeling perspective it's pretty crap. While I was initially pretty happy with 8th ed., my enthusiasm has waned quite a bit. I am rapidly going back to 2nd ed. revisions as my preferred method of play.
Turns out people don't like having their armies/units invalidated for no good reason.
Who knew? *shrugs*
Seriously,
And there's a bunch of white knights that have the audacity to say that we are wrong for playing a totally fluffy army for the past what like 20 years?
For the record I don't even play Death Guard. But i'll be damned if I'm not going to say something when I see a lazy hack job from GW, just like I would congratulate the when they do something well.
The new DG codex doesn't have the options it should, and many of the units don't even have the special rules associated with the DG like sorcerers and possessed like some people pointed out.
Ahhh the attacks commence. I am not saying it is wrong that you sued a "fluffy army" no, good on you! However, it is wrong to assume your "fluffy army" would still be valid after it became an actual codex army.
To me, that is just pushing an expectation you had and assumptions onto GW when they have shown in the past that they will shatter that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I mean, come on. The Thousands Sons have their own terminators with non standard options and can't take CSM Termies. Why would the Death Guard be any different?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/15 16:17:09
Turns out people don't like having their armies/units invalidated for no good reason.
Who knew? *shrugs*
Seriously,
And there's a bunch of white knights that have the audacity to say that we are wrong for playing a totally fluffy army for the past what like 20 years?
For the record I don't even play Death Guard. But i'll be damned if I'm not going to say something when I see a lazy hack job from GW, just like I would congratulate the when they do something well.
The new DG codex doesn't have the options it should, and many of the units don't even have the special rules associated with the DG like sorcerers and possessed like some people pointed out.
Ahhh the attacks commence. I am not saying it is wrong that you sued a "fluffy army" no, good on you! However, it is wrong to assume your "fluffy army" would still be valid after it became an actual codex army.
To me, that is just pushing an expectation you had and assumptions onto GW when they have shown in the past that they will shatter that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I mean, come on. The Thousands Sons have their own terminators with non standard options and can't take CSM Termies. Why would the Death Guard be any different?
It's GW's job to accurately portray the fluff and lore of their universe, not ours.
The Deathguard Codex fails spectacularly to do this on so many levels that its just really not funny, and I am likely not going to purchase it. I won't congratulate GW for butchering their own children.
Also, nobody said they handled the TS army right either. Fact is, GW screwed up. You can own it and hold them accountable, and make the game, world and multiverse a better place, or ruin it by insistently preaching GW's praise even when they light the house on fire.
alextroy wrote: I think it is more a "why are you surprised your out of production Forge World Chaos Space Marine kit does not have rules in a new faction codex?"
Ya'll really are trying and I've not seen one of you try to actually justify Assault Cannon Razorbacks which have never had a kit outside of FW.
Mea cupla. Not out of production... but it is still Forge World. Given the number of units removed from 7th and 8th Edition Codexes due to no current (or any) kit and Chaos Terminators not being in the Index, there should be zero surprise here. The rules in the codex cover the kits (soon to be) available and nothing else.
Looks like time to contact Forge World for rules for the upgrade pack.
I agree that people who've been playing for a while have been screwed over. The Primaris didn't really step on any toes as it wasn't rewriting but adding. Whereas this new DG release is a total rewrite of current players' collections. Which I guess they wanted to do to allow new players to come in with a slightly cleaner way of doing so. However, it's probably not the best way of going about it, as it's invalidated a lot of people's models which they've spent a LOT of money on. So I can understand frustration.
I'm one of the lucky ones who has been interested in DG for a while but I've never collected them until now so I can get stuck into the new models without any problems. But I'm really sorry for those who've spent a lot of money and time in their armies and have now got to deal with them being essentially binned.
However, does everyone have to get so triggered by some dudes saying some things on the internet? Luckily the codex is out today so I won't have to worry about this thread being closed at least
If everyone could stop complaining about you models that "you can't use, because they aren't in this codex." It is getting really old and you all sound like whiny little girls who didn't get their Justin Bebber tickets. Get over it, there isn't gak you can do about it now. Either suck it up or go buy new models. We all know we all were going to do that anyway. I don't want to here this, " I shouldn't have too buy new models" because it isn't a secret that GW is in it to make money, so stop complaining and move on good lord. This thread has turned into one giant cry fest.
Turns out people don't like having their armies/units invalidated for no good reason.
Who knew? *shrugs*
Seriously,
And there's a bunch of white knights that have the audacity to say that we are wrong for playing a totally fluffy army for the past what like 20 years?
For the record I don't even play Death Guard. But i'll be damned if I'm not going to say something when I see a lazy hack job from GW, just like I would congratulate the when they do something well.
The new DG codex doesn't have the options it should, and many of the units don't even have the special rules associated with the DG like sorcerers and possessed like some people pointed out.
Ahhh the attacks commence. I am not saying it is wrong that you sued a "fluffy army" no, good on you! However, it is wrong to assume your "fluffy army" would still be valid after it became an actual codex army.
To me, that is just pushing an expectation you had and assumptions onto GW when they have shown in the past that they will shatter that.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I mean, come on. The Thousands Sons have their own terminators with non standard options and can't take CSM Termies. Why would the Death Guard be any different?
It's GW's job to accurately portray the fluff and lore of their universe, not ours.
The Deathguard Codex fails spectacularly to do this on so many levels that its just really not funny, and I am likely not going to purchase it. I won't congratulate GW for butchering their own children.
Also, nobody said they handled the TS army right either. Fact is, GW screwed up. You can own it and hold them accountable, and make the game, world and multiverse a better place, or ruin it by insistently preaching GW's praise even when they light the house on fire.
Oi vey. It isn't GW's job to honor the fluff you want. Why don't you see what the Blightlord fluff and Deathshroud fluff is and see why they did what they did.
Other than that, it STILL your expectations and assumptions that are pissing in your cereal. GW followed their prior trends and the Index was a HUGE hint on what would or would not be in the codex.
Urgh, what a profoundly disappointing release, a wasted opportunity of staggering magnitude
Decades of collecting Death Guard and I will not be buying a single thing from this release.
Look back through every Death Guard model ever released and you may find the odd tentacle, maybe an occasional bell. You will not find bells everywhere and tentacles growing from every orifice.
The background has been shredded and discarded in favour of the new aesthetic, and everyone who collected Death Guard before 8th can go hang as far as GW is concerned
"Mortarion preferred to utilise huge waves of infantry, well-equipped and highly-trained on an individual level. He demanded that they be able to function and fight in almost any kind of atmosphere, and gave little emphasis on specialised units using jump packs or bikes. In fact, the Death Guard did not have dedicated Assault and Tactical squads as such; all his Space Marines were expected by Mortarion to be equally adept with bolter, pistol and close combat weapon, to fight with whatever weapon circumstance dictated."
Now, we don't even have bolt pistols, and some of his warriors discard their bolters in favour of medieval close combat weapons
"Their weapons and armor were rarely the most expertly artificed, certainly not the most beautifully-ornamented, but functioned without flaw"
...and yet all of our Vindicators spontaneously combusted. As, apparently, did our Terminator powerfists. Maybe they got redistributed to all the Plague Champions who are now wielding them.
"The combat doctrine which served the Death Guard so well in life now suits the damned character of the Plague Marines to perfection."
...Up until the Indomitus crusade, when Mortarion finally emerged from the Plague Planet, and coincidentally his legion decided to utterly abandon his teachings.
EmberlordofFire8 wrote: I mean, it sucks to have your awesome conversions invalidated, but on the other hand don't you think the Biologus Putrifier is the coolest model ever released by GW?
I mean just look at it:
Spoiler:
It has a head-water-bottle thing.
Personally, I love that model. Too bad his rules suck.
He's the one that makes your bases better though isn't he?
He's the one that makes your grenades better.
WH40K Death Guard 5100 pts.
Daemons 3000 pts.
DT:70+S++G+M-B-I--Pw40K90-D++A++/eWD?R++T(D)DM+
28 successful trades in the Dakka Swap Shop! Check out my latest auction here!
Reading this thread it's hard to believe people are even discussing the same release. Either people utterly loathe it or they love it. There seems to be no inbetween at all.
zerosignal wrote: Just feel completely let down, having built my army along the Vectorium lines in January, pretty much everything is invalidated.
I bought Grave Wardens from FW as I loved the models, but for some reason (GEEDERPDERPDERP) death guard terminators have forgotten how to use power fists.
Might as well sell up. Really just don't feel any enthusiasm for the hobby right now. Thoroughly let down.
I think this is the bit that annoys me the most. We've had GW release rules for a bunch of DG units less than a year ago, only for those units to not even be usable by DG anymore. It's one thing to invalidate a model someone bought a decade ago, they still got a lot of usage out of it. But if you bought DG havocs or raptors or whatever due to traitor legions, you had those in your army for less than 6 months. It's really obnoxious and something that continues to anger me when I'm reminded of it.
DarkStarSabre wrote: Really, they should have been rolled into the LoC and Plaguecaster entries and those should have been given more options. It would made far more sense - sure, we lose the Lord's reroll ability....but that is instead on the Daemon Prince. It's sort of a price to pay and hey, that would actually add variety to us rather than a cut and paste character which is inherently weaker than its surroundings.
I also feel Cultists could have been merged with Poxwalkers and options thrown in there. A bit more costly but a bit more reslient and again, a unique unit with a unique feel, not a cut and paste job that we got.
I also find people actively upset that our army was not made worse for arbitrary fluff reasons kinda annoying. They gave us the units as DG. I'm okay with that. If you don't like the rules, don't use them, but don't ask they remove variety from our army. The fact you are asking them to remove good units to force people to use bad ones baffles me.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Qlanth wrote: Reading this thread it's hard to believe people are even discussing the same release. Either people utterly loathe it or they love it. There seems to be no inbetween at all.
I'm in the middle
Pros:
New models are great
Many of the new units have interesting rules
A lot of fluffy and thematic elements
Cons:
My old DG army barely qualifies as DG Some removed units and loadouts are very arbitrary, despite being included in the DG army list released 9 months ago
Some shared units lacking thematic abilities (this bothers me very little personally, but it is a valid critique)
It's an excellent release for new players. For older players with existing DG armies it's a lot more questionable.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/15 18:01:38
Well, it appears my laziness in assembling my two units of Forgeworld Plague marine terminators has PAID OFF!!
So, would much of this argument be sated if GW just said you could use Power fists and Chainfists (and I guess heavy flamers too) with blightlord terminators? Aside from the HF, they do seem pretty nurgly, I mean, the forgeworld dread... sorry, HELL BRUTES!!!!!... Had a nurgly power fist & Chainfist option (las cannon & heavy bolter too), so why not dem Termies? Oh well.
Speaking of the blightlords, does anyone know if their shoulder pads are attached to their arms? I will probably add their arms to my FW Plaguemarine terminator bodies, and the FW shoulder plates are separate, so, if the blightlord ones are attached, I could use them somewhere else.
I'm kind of hoping GW does something like that skull basing pack they just did, but with Nurglings when the Nurgle demons come out. That would be AMAZING!!
Death Guard 5100 pts.
Daemons 3000 pts.
Had a nurgly power fist & Chainfist option (las cannon & heavy bolter too), so why not dem Termies? Oh well.
, 
, 
, 
<Dynasty> 
War Coven of the Coruscating Gaze 
Thrice-Damned Plague Corps 
Admech (TBN) 