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 streetsamurai wrote:

Bye, you'll be sorely miss. Don't let the door hit you

Did you actually just encourage a new person who was being positive to leave? Congratz on being the shining beacon of negativity that he was referring to.

On topic, I like the release overall but there have been a few things that bugged me. 7-man plague marine squad is definitely one, lack of weapon options is two, and a few of the points costs / rules (trash tier plague surgeon wtf?) is the last main part. Still it's a huge step in the right direction compared to the old GW we are used to. I'll count my blessings, do some resin casting to fill in the gaps left by GW, and hope they keep improving in future releases.

 Scrub wrote:
I picked it out on my second attempt, I can scarcely believe that Concussors are an unit! Nice models, though!

That's the one I thought was fake!

 streetsamurai wrote:

RIPferdy wrote:
But I am happy that everyone I talk to irl is super happy with recent GW releases and where the company is headed.

I do find myself going to non-dakka sites more often as the complaining here gets worse, so maybe others are doing that as well leaving a bigger mass of complainers here? Dunno

Bye, you'll be sorely miss. Don't let the door hit you

*missed

Qlanth wrote:
... but the pricing doesn't really seem that off compared to other things I've seen released.

Then you haven't looked hard enough. These are releases that cost the same as the equivalent previous Chaos release (1KSons) yet almost all mono-pose without many options to speak of. And you're aware that there's a box of 7 Plague Marines that costs as much as other army's infantry kits that both have more options and more posability? You know the Plague Marine box is 7 models, right?

Qlanth wrote:
It feels like the prices have all been comparable to other releases I've seen so far.

That's the point. They're comparable for less.

Qlanth wrote:
I've seen people compare it to Rubric Marines. The Plague Marines have far more options than Rubric Marines. The models are also larger in size, and each of them is extremely distinct. The minimum unit size is 5, and really that is what everyone is running anyway (5 models in a unit with 3 plas, or with 2xBlight Launcher 1x Plas, melee with Flail, etc) so with a box of these you can make a minimum unit size plus have two options to swap in or out... or just add the two to a unit and run 5. You're getting a unit PLUS some extras which is honestly way better than 95% of other boxes being sold.

It's not. It's objectively less. Fewer models and fewer options, and some models don't even have options.

As I've brought up a number of times, compare this to this.

Both are the same cost. Both are three miniatures. One is a multipart kit that allows you to build 3 models in a variety of weapons, with different poses, weapon details, heads and even an optional Disc of Tzeentch. The other is a three-pack of mono-pose characters where you get a few extra heads, one extra chest, one extra scythe head and I think one extra gauntlet gun. That's it. They'll always be in the same three poses.

And I'd've been fine with that if they didn't cost the same.

What I do when I have multiples of the same model (cultists, metal plague Marines, rhinos orkz, more orkz, trukks etc) is paint them in different color schemes. My Loyalist marine army is the only one that's uniformly painted.

Just a suggestion!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
People see hung up on lack of variation in the kit, but how often do we really have them in the table (for a mechanized list) and how often do we actually keep units intact? I find casualties start real early in this edition. Are we really gonna notice that two of the same tentacle maw Marines are on the table together and get confused?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Don't get me wrong I OCD made sure not to have the same ork heads on the same irk bodies and Divvied up each unit to be as evenly distributed as possible for my Orks!

 streetsamurai wrote:

RIPferdy wrote:
But I am happy that everyone I talk to irl is super happy with recent GW releases and where the company is headed.

I do find myself going to non-dakka sites more often as the complaining here gets worse, so maybe others are doing that as well leaving a bigger mass of complainers here? Dunno

Bye, you'll be sorely miss. Don't let the door hit you

I'll be joining him too, not that it matters to you.

This forum has become so toxic it's simply not worth contributing any longer. People trying to enjoy any release are shouted down by everyone with a bone to pick with GW and the mods sit by and allow it to happen time and time again.

 Starfarer wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:

RIPferdy wrote:
But I am happy that everyone I talk to irl is super happy with recent GW releases and where the company is headed.

I do find myself going to non-dakka sites more often as the complaining here gets worse, so maybe others are doing that as well leaving a bigger mass of complainers here? Dunno

Bye, you'll be sorely miss. Don't let the door hit you

I'll be joining him too, not that it matters to you.

This forum has become so toxic it's simply not worth contributing any longer. People trying to enjoy any release are shouted down by everyone with a bone to pick with GW and the mods sit by and allow it to happen time and time again.

Thats why I don't recommend this forum to new people to this hobby, but after you have hair in yours... and one has pased that purity phase where everything is shiny and beautifull, one that your friends should try to make it last as long as they can, is time to come here and play in the mud!
And always repeat, before login in DakkaDakka, the mantra "This people is living all around the world. I will never meet them personally. Their opinions have no power over me"

FWIW I've also been turned off by the constant negativity. I like to get excited about new toys but this thread seems to make me feel worse. I'm a recent addition to the forum but it's honestly turning me away. (I looked for a better thread/sub-forum to mention this but didn't see one.)

On topic I actually find the number of releases overall to be overwhelming. As a wargame newbie, a smaller release window would make it feel even more insurmountable. But I can understand the desire to move on. I just want to know if that Nurgle tummy-mouth art is for a new model!!

 Clanan wrote:
FWIW I've also been turned off by the constant negativity. I like to get excited about new toys but this thread seems to make me feel worse. I'm a recent addition to the forum but it's honestly turning me away. (I looked for a better thread/sub-forum to mention this but didn't see one.)

On topic I actually find the number of releases overall to be overwhelming. As a wargame newbie, a smaller release window would make it feel even more insurmountable. But I can understand the desire to move on. I just want to know if that Nurgle tummy-mouth art is for a new model!!

I beg your pardon but what's the point of discussing something in a thread if everybody agrees that everything is awesome.
We would fall asleep after 5 minutes.

Secondly, I do ask what is "toxic" in posts like the one of H.B.M.C. above. The guy listed objective, measurable arguments to state that the kit sold is inferior. One can not agree but you cannot dismiss that as "toxic" just because you disagree and that hurts your delicate feelings. I do hope one can discuss the quality of a kit in a thread dedicated to such kit.

I have the feel that label any answer that is not positive "toxic" is a way to shut it down and to depict anyone that is not WOWSUPEREXCITED100% for a new kit as a naysayer, while there is way more nuance to that. People could have appreciated the models but not the release schedule, some don't care about the release but find some of the models too busy (not that cannot be fixed). I sounded at one moment as a GW employe myself stating that you can improve the Plagues buying... another GW kit (Blightkings)! Seriously do it, or at least find the bits.

I suppose that unless a Genestealer Cult took over were are not an hive mind so it happens we like and dislike different things.
I see that nowadays being critic is always seen as negative but discussion is an healthy way to analyse thing and perhaps change one mind in a direction or another. I do wonder if these reaction and this "toxic" labeling aren't an aftereffect of this excessively politically correct zeitgeist.

Consider that albeit I have to modify them, I acquired some PM because I find the "basics" of the models well executed, even if at the beginning I was not interested (too busy). Guess how I changed my mind? Dakka. As Galas and I stated some post above, those who criticize end up buying

Kaiyan, your post is a great example of why I come out of these threads feeling worse. I put forward honest newbie feedback which I hope is useful (because I like this forum and want to get more into wargaming). Then you tear into me with strawman arguments and insults. Anyway, this thread probably isn't the place for this so I'll cease the conversation. You win.

 Clanan wrote:
Kaiyan, your post is a great example of why I come out of these threads feeling worse. I put forward honest newbie feedback which I hope is useful (because I like this forum and want to get more into wargaming). Then you tear into me with strawman arguments and insults. Anyway, this thread probably isn't the place for this so I'll cease the conversation. You win.

Well you know what? You win. I prefer boards where people don't feel bad just because other have a different opinion. But hey. Is how it works nowadays.

Personally, i find that the forum is too positive

Always seems to be a few posters defending gw no matter what they do.

Though, when the unbridled positivity start to get on my nerves, i just leave for a few days/weeks, without feeling the need to act like a drama queen

I have a feeling we are headed for a "back on topic" warning here folks.

My 2 cents is that I like to see people's takes on all the new models but I'm also very weary of people who voice extreme opinions. When emotional arguments like "I've been in this hobby for 30+ years but this kit is the final straw, I am giving away all my mini's and moving to a different game system" I can't help but cringe a little bit.

Anyway, my thoughts on the 7 man box;

1) Pricing is pretty off base but is definitely expected given the Primaris release prices and based on the fact DI was so cheap. (without the book and Primaris value, $50 US for 7 marines, 20 pox walkers, 1 drone and 3 characters!) I believe they call this "baiting" in the sales world; buying in is cheap and once you're committed they can ask any price so that you complete your collection. While I really dislike it, it's a good sales strategy as all of us who want the unique DG poses will begrudgingly buy in. Don't get me wrong, I love that there are 18-19 unique PM sculpts, but the price point is ridiculous. I justify it (very slightly) by thinking that the 7 PM's in DI only cost about one to two dollars each.

2) CAD and mirroring; main body poses being mirrored is a slight annoyance but at least they used different arms/accessories/heads. I am hoping to flex my modelling muscle and change up a few of the mirrored sculpts enough to alter the pose.

3) Weapon options in boxes of this release. Yes they are limited, yes this has been a trend with GW, and yes it's always been annoying, but again; not something that can't be fixed with a little bit of modelling. There are literally hundreds of sellers online offering bits for plasma/flamer/melta weapons that can easily be subbed into this release with minimal converting work. Yes, it's harder than getting it out of the box, but if I'm gonna spend $60 on a 5 man squad, paying $3.50 for come extra bits online will not be the deal breaker for me.


On the topic of next week's releases:

Any indication at all of Blight Hauler's release date? I'm itching to get one or two ASAP.

I think there's been a lot of whining in this thread, but also a lot of legitimate criticism. Not all of it is toxic, though some certainly is.

At any rate, checked out the close ups on the new miniatures. Still love the tallyman, my favorite model by far, and that nurgling is just great. Crawler is also pretty cool, I would personally sculpt some daemon fleshy bits in places but the overall slug shape and the gear mechanism behind the gun is really cool. Also looks way better than in the initial white paint job we saw early on.

Doctor is really flat for me. Solid sculpt quality but if it's gunna be that price for a single mini I'd expect something less bland. Bloat drone looks great, bit expensive for what is ultimately a small vehicle but people's idea of getting two DI drones with one drone kit saves that for the most part.

I personally love the sculpts and the overall aesthetic they went with, and I'm annoyed at the lack of customization but I'm used to converting things. The pricing is a bit much for me to justify being "all in" on this release, though. I was originally going to buy all of my army as genuine NIB GW product so I could play it at the GW store or wherever I wanted to, but I'm inclined to cut some corners now.

I'm a little sad the Blight Hauler has 0 options. A rocket launcher and a multi-melta I believe? Why didn't they add a little more customization, like with the Drone? I don't know. Some heavy vile-flamer equivalents, or something like that.

Blight hauler to me is infantry support piece. I like the limited options because they’re good and paired up with pox walkers moving the festering horde across the field sounds great.

Just need the model to be released...

Blight Hauler is the Land Speeder equivalent for DG. Gives them some AT firepower which the army traditionally is lacking.

Hopefully they come in a box of 3, but now not so sure. Probably come individually at the Rhino price point

People are getting their models in and already a few interesting conversions that improve the Typhus sculpt are online.

This one is my favorite: (Credit to http://bitteroldpainters.blogspot.com)

 Hive City Dweller wrote:
People are getting their models in and already a few interesting conversions that improve the Typhus sculpt are online.

This one is my favorite: (Credit to http://bitteroldpainters.blogspot.com)

Spoiler:

Honestly when I eventually get Typhus I will probably only remove the silly Nurgling from him, but otherwise I'm okay with the pose. I just wish the Nurgling was a separate detail so that I could use it on a more appropriate model, but oh well... That said, that conversion in the pic you shared is amazing!

 Galas wrote:
I'm a little sad the Blight Hauler has 0 options. A rocket launcher and a multi-melta I believe? Why didn't they add a little more customization, like with the Drone? I don't know. Some heavy vile-flamer equivalents, or something like that.

Yeah, it's weird they decided on those weapons as well. It's the only of new daemon engines to feature normal guns, and I'm not sure why. They didn't want to give it idk an entropy cannon like the crawler has, plus a heavy blight launcher?

I'm pretty sure models come before rules, correct? Because I could see the logic in giving it conventional weapons if you wanted to avoid it being overly efficient with weapons prices for 4+ bs when it is taken in sets of three. But it seems more likely they decided to give it conventional weapons, then felt the need to shoehorn in a way to give it a 3+ bs.

Plus it's just bad luck they gave it two of the worst AT weapons out there right now. That's why alternate options are nice, the default ones may not be very useful.

It's strange that that a vehicle that has, essentially, Dreadnought weapons wasn't given a few other Dread-like options. I mean, looking at the Helbrute sprues shows off how simple the weapons are.

Given all GW can do with CAD, it's bizarre that they'd release something so option-less.

SilverAlien wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I'm a little sad the Blight Hauler has 0 options. A rocket launcher and a multi-melta I believe? Why didn't they add a little more customization, like with the Drone? I don't know. Some heavy vile-flamer equivalents, or something like that.

Yeah, it's weird they decided on those weapons as well. It's the only of new daemon engines to feature normal guns, and I'm not sure why. They didn't want to give it idk an entropy cannon like the crawler has, plus a heavy blight launcher?

I'm pretty sure models come before rules, correct? Because I could see the logic in giving it conventional weapons if you wanted to avoid it being overly efficient with weapons prices for 4+ bs when it is taken in sets of three. But it seems more likely they decided to give it conventional weapons, then felt the need to shoehorn in a way to give it a 3+ bs.

Plus it's just bad luck they gave it two of the worst AT weapons out there right now. That's why alternate options are nice, the default ones may not be very useful.

Another symptom of the Codex feeling rushed.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's strange that that a vehicle that has, essentially, Dreadnought weapons wasn't given a few other Dread-like options. I mean, looking at the Helbrute sprues shows off how simple the weapons are.

Given all GW can do with CAD, it's bizarre that they'd release something so option-less.

Is like the fact that the Deathsrouds come in three small hero-sice sprues. Even if I like the models, the release in general, etc... all this totally arbitrary things are like... WTF GW?!

Deathshrouds was a wasted opportunity to have a cool dual kit - manreapers for one config, and chem weapons (some sort of super plague spewer) for the other (ala Grave Wardens)

Keep Blightlords as the generic terminators and give them back their fething powerfists lol

 puma713 wrote:

SilverAlien wrote:

 Galas wrote:
I'm a little sad the Blight Hauler has 0 options. A rocket launcher and a multi-melta I believe? Why didn't they add a little more customization, like with the Drone? I don't know. Some heavy vile-flamer equivalents, or something like that.

Yeah, it's weird they decided on those weapons as well. It's the only of new daemon engines to feature normal guns, and I'm not sure why. They didn't want to give it idk an entropy cannon like the crawler has, plus a heavy blight launcher?

I'm pretty sure models come before rules, correct? Because I could see the logic in giving it conventional weapons if you wanted to avoid it being overly efficient with weapons prices for 4+ bs when it is taken in sets of three. But it seems more likely they decided to give it conventional weapons, then felt the need to shoehorn in a way to give it a 3+ bs.

Plus it's just bad luck they gave it two of the worst AT weapons out there right now. That's why alternate options are nice, the default ones may not be very useful.

Another symptom of the Codex feeling rushed.

In a business like this, it's normal that things are rushed. You have the design phase, prototypes, production, development, marketing, etc., each with their own deadlines and all of them scheduling months ahead. And that's for a single release, then you have to insert it in a wider yearly release schedule.

A mere one week delay can cause huge problems. So yeah things are always rushed. I can't think of any big videogame, movie, toy you name it that wasn't rushed.

Well there's some (thinking of Mad Max Fury Road) but they are the exception, not the rule. Companies this big have generally tight deadlines and have to follow them, there's no "it'll come out when it's ready".

 Hive City Dweller wrote:
People are getting their models in and already a few interesting conversions that improve the Typhus sculpt are online.

This one is my favorite: (Credit to http://bitteroldpainters.blogspot.com)

Spoiler:

Heck, I picked up Typhus.

Even the base sculpt is miles better without the stupid ass fly swarm.

Willing to bet it's also hugely improved by not having a bright pink nurgling on the gut.

I'll be honest, I really like the fly swarm!

You can leave the fly swarm off, it's entirely optional. Per the sculptor in the latest WD.

 Clanan wrote:
I just want to know if that Nurgle tummy-mouth art is for a new model!!

If you're referring to the rumor engine art, I believe that has been identified as belonging to the Beast of Nurgle artwork in the Death Guard codex, with a model coming supposedly when daemons get their codex or an Age of Sigmar release.