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 Kilkrazy wrote:
It remains to be seen if Rey will try to use the Jedi Texts stolen from the Tree Temple to become a new Jedi.

Apparently, this would be redundant. Yoda tells Luke that Rey already knows everything in the texts.

 Gen. Lee Losing wrote:
I did not like the writing of this movie.

At least twice they referenced a "god" (I think more than twice, really)

Saying "God help us" or "Godspeed" in star Wars is just wrong. They don't have God. They have the Force. "May the Force be with us" and "Force be with you".

The whole script felt like the Superman Returns movie, t where the director later confessed that he wanted to make a different movie than a super hero one so he tried to twist the movie he had been given into what he wanted to make.

So we kill off Admiral Ackbar but introduce Admiral Feminist (purple hair and all) to shut down the "flyboy" (ignoring that the series is based on reckless flyboys saving the day with Han Solo in the Falcon, or Luke disengaging the targeting computer, etc).

And force powers that have never been seen even in the days of the Jedi at their height. Having the force suddenly able to converse across distances ( would have been helpful in the Clone wars, right?) is like Resurrection Magic suddenly showing up in the Harry Potter universe. It retroactively creates plot holes in the past. Why didn't Harry just resurrect his parents? Why didn't Yoda continue training Luke via Force communication? Why do Jedi use sabers to block blasters if they can just hold them with the force? Its stupid and bad writing.

I know I've been harping on what bothers me about the movie, but to be fair to the Disney movies, I always assumed Force powers were ill-understood and sometimes considered dangerous. Like the Jedi block blaster bolts, but that's only because Kylo Ren's 'freezing' force power is a Dark Side one that the Jedi forbid or do not even know about. Or the trans-galactic communication: perhaps that's corruptive in some way after all. I mean Snoke uses it to connect Rey and Ren, and he probably wouldn't care if it was Dark Side or Light Side. It could also have been a newly discovered power to everyone; I think it's stated somewhere that Snoke and Ren are not "Sith" in the sense that they're not religious.

The Force is essentially magic, and that makes me okay with it. It follows laws that are ill-explained and unclear (is the force in "balance" ala Yin-Yang or is the Dark Side a corruption of an otherwise balanced, and wholly good/light-side Force?), but that's fine, because it's magic. I have no problem with the specific Force powers used in the films. You could, however, argue that we don't know where they came from - the Emperor clearly couldn't force-communicate, so is Snoke more powerful? If so, where did he come from, since he's explicitly not a Sith? Etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
It remains to be seen if Rey will try to use the Jedi Texts stolen from the Tree Temple to become a new Jedi.

Apparently, this would be redundant. Yoda tells Luke that Rey already knows everything in the texts.

I actually thought he said "There is no knowledge in there that Rey does not already have." or something like that, which at the time I took to mean Rey knew everything, but he may actually have meant "rey has all the PHYSICAL knowledge that was in the tree" as in she has physical copies. I thought it was Yoda doing a Obi-Wan "Vader killed your father" moment, where it's sort of "technically" true but not really.

 Manchu wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
It remains to be seen if Rey will try to use the Jedi Texts stolen from the Tree Temple to become a new Jedi.

Apparently, this would be redundant. Yoda tells Luke that Rey already knows everything in the texts.

The fact that Rey pinched the books shows that she invests some important meaning and value in them.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The fact that Rey pinched the books shows that she invests some important meaning and value in them.

Of course she does. She doesn't know that she already knows everything.

And please, no more talk about the supposed novelty of feminism in these movies. In 1977, Princess Leia subverted the expectation that her role was to be passive and submissive. Forty years later, TFA and TLJ are NOT breaking any new ground, doing anything brave, or standing up dor what's right. This is pure marketing patter and so is trying to cast criticism as misogyny.

Similarly, criticism of the film is not that it was insufficiently "intellectual" or failed to deliver enough trivial exposition. The film was poorly paced, undermined otherwise likable characters, leaned on nonsensical contrivances, and failed to adequately explain major developments. These problems cannot be waived away by some variation of "it's just a Star Wars movie." Again, you're just conceding that the movie is bad but excusing it because of its genre.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
It remains to be seen if Rey will try to use the Jedi Texts stolen from the Tree Temple to become a new Jedi.

Apparently, this would be redundant. Yoda tells Luke that Rey already knows everything in the texts.

The fact that Rey pinched the books shows that she invests some important meaning and value in them.

I wouldn't be suprized if they don't even play a part in the next movie. It would be par for the course for this series. Calling it right now - the Jedi books are the knights of Ren on episode 8.

The books are already weird. Obi-Wan didn't have books. Yoda didn't have books. Why does Luke need books? I guess it must be because the writers insisted that Luke not train Rey. So the manifestation of the Jedi legacy could not be a personal transmission of knowledge, a.k.a., a meaningful, memorable relationship between characters, but has to be externalized as a pathetic armful of texts?

I strongly suspect this was done for commercial purposes. Doubtless, these books will show up in other media. I bet we'll be able to buy our very own "Journal of the Whills" at the store at some point.

 Manchu wrote:
The books are already weird. Obi-Wan didn't have books. Yoda didn't have books. Why does Luke need books? I guess it must be because the writers insisted that Luke not train Rey. So the manifestation of the Jedi legacy could not be a personal transmission of knowledge, a.k.a., a meaningful, memorable relationship between characters, but has to be externalized as a pathetic armful of texts?

I strongly suspect this was done for commercial purposes. Doubtless, these books will show up in other media. I bet we'll be able to buy our very own "Journal of the Whills" at the store at some point.

If only they had Leia train Rey in TFA. This would have:
- Shown that Leia used her force sensitiveness, and trained for it
- Consequently, had a setup for Mary Popppins Leia in TLJ
- Made Rey more logic in her nature. Now she is a"nobody", but trained by 2 skywalker. People would accept easily her power
- Had for once a female teacher

But nope. We have to leave the writing to the guy who created Lost.

 Manchu wrote:
The books are already weird. Obi-Wan didn't have books. Yoda didn't have books. Why does Luke need books? I guess it must be because the writers insisted that Luke not train Rey. So the manifestation of the Jedi legacy could not be a personal transmission of knowledge, a.k.a., a meaningful, memorable relationship between characters, but has to be externalized as a pathetic armful of texts?

I strongly suspect this was done for commercial purposes. Doubtless, these books will show up in other media. I bet we'll be able to buy our very own "Journal of the Whills" at the store at some point.

Yoda and Obi-Wan both had books in their closets offscreen. You didn't know that? Pfft.

And doesn't it stand to reason that the books serve the same role as the holocrons in the EU? Luke had to have sought out and acquired additional Jedi knowledge after Yoda's death, correct? I would have thought the presence of the journals would score a point for the Disney movies, given the stated need by some for completeness and clarity.

Leia training Rey would be bizarre since we have no indication that Leia has been trained. (That's also one of the reasons her space fairy antics were so jarring.) It would have made more sense to have Leia train Poe into being a good leader. But honestly, is Leia even shown to be a good leader?

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Well, the film presents a lot of strong female characters.

does it? I have to disagree with you here.

I stated earlier how the admiral was a unbelievable character and failed at her job.

rose? nope. hey look they cast a Asian for technical maintenance, no sterotyping there.

Leia? not this time.

rey? sure she's the mary sue after all. she's already bested kylo twice, Does she have any challenge to overcome? no, she's a shallow action hero with no depth a truly 2d character befitting most action hero movies.

the girl in the bomber? turns out they could have just used the bombers to hyperspace into all the star destroyers then gotten away easily, instead of wasting all that effort and lives on trying to drop bombs on the ships.

In terms of intellectual complaints, I take it to mean that the film doesn't present a strongly founded factual basis for the timeline, logistics, and so on that are displayed. Which of course is because it is a space/opera/fantasy and doesn't need such an intellectual underpinning.

they do if they want to create a vibrant living world and not just reused back drops.

This is subversive within the context of it being a space/opera/fantasy/tale in which female characters traditionally are relatively passive

what movies are you watching? amazon women on the moon? remember the alien series? strong female character, believable character and did a better job world building and trying to be factually based. It's hard to even think of a sci fi movie that doesn't have strong female leads unless you go back to the flash gorden age and B movies.

 Manchu wrote:
Leia training Rey would be bizarre since we have no indication that Leia has been trained. (That's also one of the reasons her space fairy antics were so jarring.) It would have made more sense to have Leia train Poe into being a good leader. But honestly, is Leia even shown to be a good leader?

This would have been one of the thing that made sense after 30 years because
- Is personal. Does not need a galactic organisation like the FO
- It has a good setup in the last OT movies. Leia was "the other hope" since ESB so makes sense that in the downtime she trained with Luke, maybe not to be a Jedi but to to be at least sensitive.
This of course with a better Luke, not the one Johnson wrote.

I agree that even if they filled the movie with females, they are awful examples of leaders. As I posted previously, compare Holdo with Lando and Ackbar in RotJ. Male Holdo would have been labelled "toxic masculinity".

Also, one observation about the "passive female characters" in space operas - Leia and arguably Mothma (adjusted for the screentime) in the OT were way better than anything in the ST.
Arguably better than Padme "I ADORE Dark Triad men" Amidala in the PT. Btw Rey in TLJ is close to that.

@Gorgon

Glad you mentioned holocrons. A holocron is a record of the personality of masters. As a narrative device, a holocron allows the story to transport a character from the distant past of the setting to its present. It is essentially a vehicle for bringing characters together so they can have relationships.

By contrast, the books in TLJ are just props used to mutely symbolize Jedi tradition and legacy. Unlike a personal relationship. the books are items that can pass from one hand to another with no need for dialog or characterization and indeed almost nothing in the way of plot development. A holocron can be used in the same way, but that's not the point of it as a narrative device.

Far from offering any completeness of clarity, the books are ambiguous. We have no clue what actual insights they contain, other than Rey already (without consulting them) has the knowledge they purportedly contain. In this sense, the books aren't even practically useful as books; they are more like relics. And that's why they will be very useful as macguffins in comics and novels and cartoon shows.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:
Leia was "the other hope" since ESB so makes sense that in the downtime she trained with Luke, maybe not to be a Jedi but to to be at least sensitive.

Leia was shown to be force sensitive in ROTJ. She had felt the family link between her and Luke before he told her of it and she felt that he wasn't on the Death Star when it was destroyed. Then in TFA she felt it when Han was killed.

People acting like her being able to pull herself back into the ship came completely out of nowhere appear to be operating under the assumption that she had previously displayed no connection to the Force (false) or that, once she was actively aware of it, she wouldn't train herself to use it in some capacity.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:
Leia was "the other hope" since ESB so makes sense that in the downtime she trained with Luke, maybe not to be a Jedi but to to be at least sensitive.

Leia was shown to be force sensitive in ROTJ. She had felt the family link between her and Luke before he told her of it and she felt that he wasn't on the Death Star when it was destroyed. Then in TFA she felt it when Han was killed.

People acting like her being able to pull herself back into the ship came completely out of nowhere appear to be operating under the assumption that she had previously displayed no connection to the Force (false) or that, once she was actively aware of it, she wouldn't train herself to use it in some capacity.

I think the issue is that "training yourself" is supposedly impossible, hence the need for the Jedi and Sith training codes. I think it's implied that it takes immense concentration and wisdom (light side), or intense emotion and force of personality (dark side) to actually control your force powers. This means that it is possible for a Force-sensitive individual to exist, giving them the sort of "passive" abilities of being Force-sensitive (such as being able to "search one's feelings" or limited and reflexive precognition, a'la untrained Anakin and his podracer) without the ability to actually focus and extend their grasp of the Force to otherwise affect the world around them.

Essentially, the Jedi are Clerics with the "Force" deity, who have Wisdom as their primary stat, and the Sith are Warlocks with the "Dark Side of the Force" patron with Charisma as their primary stat, to put it in 5e D&D terms. To push the analogy a bit, in order to unlock the "spell slot" to control your powers, you have to be whatever'th level, and you can only get there through rigorous and advanced training.

Unless you're Rey or Leia, then you just have it because the Force is different now or something.

 Manchu wrote:

other than Rey already (without consulting them) has the knowledge they purportedly contain.

That's a heck of an assumption....she has the knowledge contained within, because she has the books. Yoda detonated the tree so Luke wouldn't know she'd pinched them.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:
Leia was "the other hope" since ESB so makes sense that in the downtime she trained with Luke, maybe not to be a Jedi but to to be at least sensitive.

Leia was shown to be force sensitive in ROTJ. She had felt the family link between her and Luke before he told her of it and she felt that he wasn't on the Death Star when it was destroyed. Then in TFA she felt it when Han was killed.

People acting like her being able to pull herself back into the ship came completely out of nowhere appear to be operating under the assumption that she had previously displayed no connection to the Force (false) or that, once she was actively aware of it, she wouldn't train herself to use it in some capacity.

Leia Poppins is absolutely not out of the blue but it has an horrible setup. In the OT this aspect of Leia is more for flavour. I think it has a, to say, mechanical effect on the plot in ESB when they have to rescue Luke - she feels he is "there". But is all perception and intuition. It makes sense in the universe that she trained in 30 years.
But they lost a chance to foreshadow it correctly in TLJ or even better in TFA. Showing that she went further. Even better with Luke, setting up more interaction between the two. As it is, it looks like a contrivance, and the real life happenings make it even more baffling as a narrative choice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

other than Rey already (without consulting them) has the knowledge they purportedly contain.

Yoda detonated the tree so Luke wouldn't know she'd pinched them.

And this is another "just because" nonsense from the writers.

 Manchu wrote:
@Gorgon

Glad you mentioned holocrons. A holocron is a record of the personality of masters. As a narrative device, a holocron allows the story to transport a character from the distant past of the setting to its present. It is essentially a vehicle for bringing characters together so they can have relationships.

By contrast, the books in TLJ are just props used to mutely symbolize Jedi tradition and legacy. Unlike a personal relationship. the books are items that can pass from one hand to another with no need for dialog or characterization and indeed almost nothing in the way of plot development. A holocron can be used in the same way, but that's not the point of it as a narrative device.

Far from offering any completeness of clarity, the books are ambiguous. We have no clue what actual insights they contain, other than Rey already (without consulting them) has the knowledge they purportedly contain. In this sense, the books aren't even practically useful as books; they are more like relics. And that's why they will be very useful as macguffins in comics and novels and cartoon shows.

My response was to your question about why Luke needs books. And that's because it answers the simple question that the 'need more information' crowd would have if he lacked them. Luke does not appear ready to be a Jedi Grand Master at the end of RotJ, given how easily Palpatine owned him.

You can argue that holocrons would be a better symbol of Luke's growth and inherited knowledge...but books are a concept that you don't have to use valuable minutes to explain onscreen.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

I think the issue is that "training yourself" is supposedly impossible

But that is demonstrably false, else the Jedi would not exist. Go back far enough and somewhere down the line, somebody had to train themselves in order to create those training techniques.

A major component of Jedi training is learning to feel the force between all things, which is just done by letting go and reaching out with your feelings. Once you reach that point and can feel how the force flows and moves, how things affect it, you then start to try and affect that flow to move objects etc.

Also, Luke is capable of pulling his lightsaber to him in the Wampa cave despite such an ability never being demonstrated in the films prior to that point. On screen Obi-Wan only teaches him about the ability of the Force to augment your abilities (deflecting blaster bolts) and affect minds ("Not the droids you're looking for").

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:
Leia was "the other hope" since ESB so makes sense that in the downtime she trained with Luke, maybe not to be a Jedi but to to be at least sensitive.

Leia was shown to be force sensitive in ROTJ. She had felt the family link between her and Luke before he told her of it and she felt that he wasn't on the Death Star when it was destroyed. Then in TFA she felt it when Han was killed.

People acting like her being able to pull herself back into the ship came completely out of nowhere appear to be operating under the assumption that she had previously displayed no connection to the Force (false) or that, once she was actively aware of it, she wouldn't train herself to use it in some capacity.

use in some capacity? sure, that would have been cool to see.

The force keeping you alive in space and pulling you back to your ship? ridiculous.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/survival-in-space-unprotected-possible/

The lack of oxygen to the brain renders you unconscious in less than 15 seconds, eventually killing you. "When the pressure gets very low there is just not enough oxygen. That is really the first and most important concern," Buckey says.

No one is laboring under the error that Leia isn't Force sensitive. But there is no logical progression from being extra intuitive to telekinesis and having the ability to survive the vacuum of space.

So are Deathstar lasers. And ships like the TIE Fighter. And anti-grav vehicles. And lightsabers.

So what's your point?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

I think the issue is that "training yourself" is supposedly impossible

But that is demonstrably false, else the Jedi would not exist. Go back far enough and somewhere down the line, somebody had to train themselves in order to create those training techniques.

A major component of Jedi training is learning to feel the force between all things, which is just done by letting go and reaching out with your feelings. Once you reach that point and can feel how the force flows and moves, how things affect it, you then start to try and affect that flow to move objects etc.

No, it's not demonstrably false. It's possible for a few people who understand something vaguely to get together and discuss about it until they learn more from each other. That's my headcanon for how the Jedi formed. It wasn't some single gifted individual who somehow trained himself, but even several individuals who were vaguely aware something weird was happening with them, and got together to learn from each other and discuss things. There is no reason a "single individual" suddenly learned to Force-lightning without help.

Yes, right... a major component of Jedi training is how to do this. But it's a major part of Jedi training, and is not a major part of Sith training at all, afaik (I can't imagine Darth Maul sitting around meditating). This tells me that there's more to the Force than "I can feel it = I can move things with it."

 Kaiyanwang wrote:


And this is another "just because" nonsense from the writers.

No, it's you refusing to accept an explanation, and therefore claiming it wasn't explained.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So are Deathstar lasers. And ships like the TIE Fighter. And anti-grav vehicles. And lightsabers.

So what's your point?

The point is all of those were either handwaved/explained away in either the Prequels or OT. If you don't accept Death Star Lasers, Tie Fighters, repulsor vehicles, and lightsabres, you were never going to accept star wars.

Some people's line is at floaty space leia.

My line is instead at not being able to make any sense of what is going on in the story. Floatyleia didn't bother me that much, but I see where people are coming from. I just chalked it up to "magic".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:


And this is another "just because" nonsense from the writers.

No, it's you refusing to accept an explanation, and therefore claiming it wasn't explained.

He's refusing to accept an explanation offered by someone on the Internet that really wasn't explained in the story.

How hard is it to grasp the "a good story would indicate this, but this doesn't, so it's bad"?

sirlynchmob wrote:


use in some capacity? sure, that would have been cool to see.

The force keeping you alive in space and pulling you back to your ship? ridiculous.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/survival-in-space-unprotected-possible/

The lack of oxygen to the brain renders you unconscious in less than 15 seconds, eventually killing you. "When the pressure gets very low there is just not enough oxygen. That is really the first and most important concern," Buckey says.

Why do you assume Leia was in space longer than 15 seconds? Do you also regard the airlock scene from 2001: A Space Odyssey as impossible to believe as he was exposed to (accounting for time to pressurize the airlock after the door shuts) a vacuum for over 15 seconds?

Also, Leia would not need to be conscious for the entire time it takes for her to get back into the ship. Once she is moving towards the ship she will keep moving towards it, even if she falls unconscious. So as long as she began her journey back to the ship within the 15 seconds, and it didn't take more than a few minutes for here to get within the shield of the ship which keeps the atmosphere contained, she would survive.

 gorgon wrote:


You can argue that holocrons would be a better symbol of Luke's growth and inherited knowledge...but books are a concept that you don't have to use valuable minutes to explain onscreen.

How many minutes did R2-D2's hologram message in A New Hope take to explain on-screen? That was back in a time when the average member of the public interacted with holograms much less than they do now.

Holocrons are great for a visual medium since you can have Samuel L. Jackson show up and speak what needs to be imparted directly to Rey (with a special effect filter over him in post) rather than doing flashbacks or another contrivance while Rey sits around reading a book.

 Manchu wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
It remains to be seen if Rey will try to use the Jedi Texts stolen from the Tree Temple to become a new Jedi.

Apparently, this would be redundant. Yoda tells Luke that Rey already knows everything in the texts.

I think his exact words were "There is nothing in this library that the girl Rey does not already possess." On a second viewing, it comes across more like Yoda knows she stole the books and is trolling Luke while covering for her.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:


How hard is it to grasp the "a good story would indicate this, but this doesn't, so it's bad"?

Reading the thread, harder than self-train as a Jedi.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So are Deathstar lasers. And ships like the TIE Fighter. And anti-grav vehicles. And lightsabers.

So what's your point?

ion drives are already a thing, light sabers are being made, lasers are a thing.

anti gravity is theoretically possible.

flying unprotected in space is just ridiculous. suspension of disbelief is one thing, but that needs a lobotomy to believe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:


use in some capacity? sure, that would have been cool to see.

The force keeping you alive in space and pulling you back to your ship? ridiculous.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/survival-in-space-unprotected-possible/

The lack of oxygen to the brain renders you unconscious in less than 15 seconds, eventually killing you. "When the pressure gets very low there is just not enough oxygen. That is really the first and most important concern," Buckey says.

Why do you assume Leia was in space longer than 15 seconds? Do you also regard the airlock scene from 2001: A Space Odyssey as impossible to believe as he was exposed to (accounting for time to pressurize the airlock after the door shuts) a vacuum for over 15 seconds?

because it took longer than 15 seconds of film time to show the sequence. and 15 seconds is the maximum, odds are she'd be out as soon as she was sucked out the window.

never saw space odyssey, but you can live longer than 15 seconds, a minute or two if you're lucky, so if he was in the airlock already he could be fine.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:
Leia was "the other hope" since ESB so makes sense that in the downtime she trained with Luke, maybe not to be a Jedi but to to be at least sensitive.

Leia was shown to be force sensitive in ROTJ. She had felt the family link between her and Luke before he told her of it and she felt that he wasn't on the Death Star when it was destroyed. Then in TFA she felt it when Han was killed.

People acting like her being able to pull herself back into the ship came completely out of nowhere appear to be operating under the assumption that she had previously displayed no connection to the Force (false) or that, once she was actively aware of it, she wouldn't train herself to use it in some capacity.

I think the issue is that "training yourself" is supposedly impossible, hence the need for the Jedi and Sith training codes. I think it's implied that it takes immense concentration and wisdom (light side), or intense emotion and force of personality (dark side) to actually control your force powers. This means that it is possible for a Force-sensitive individual to exist, giving them the sort of "passive" abilities of being Force-sensitive (such as being able to "search one's feelings" or limited and reflexive precognition, a'la untrained Anakin and his podracer) without the ability to actually focus and extend their grasp of the Force to otherwise affect the world around them.

Essentially, the Jedi are Clerics with the "Force" deity, who have Wisdom as their primary stat, and the Sith are Warlocks with the "Dark Side of the Force" patron with Charisma as their primary stat, to put it in 5e D&D terms. To push the analogy a bit, in order to unlock the "spell slot" to control your powers, you have to be whatever'th level, and you can only get there through rigorous and advanced training.

Unless you're Rey or Leia, then you just have it because the Force is different now or something.

I disagree. I don't think Jedi training is required to learn how to use force powers. I think the primary reason for Jedi training is to control what people do with their force powers. Jedi training is designed to keep new Jedi from succumbing to the temptations of the Dark Side of the force and to keep them working as a force for good underneath the umbrella of the Senate and not seek power by creating a Jedi cabal to run the galaxy. Jedi training curbs the abuse of Jedi power. It's not about being able to move rocks, it's about learning precise control over your ability to move rocks thereby mastering control over yourself. Emotions lead to the Dark Side so controlling your emotions and yourself is the primary concern for Jedi and the primary objective of their training.

The big question in TLJ is that now that Rey and Ben are exercising their Force superpowers what will they do with them? In a lot of ways TLJ is similar to a Marvel universe movie more so than previous SW movies. In a moviemaking sense it certainly felt like a SW spectacle more than a continuation of the SW saga narrative. Witty banter/jokes, fight scenes, chase scene, heist/mission subplot, training montage, moral dilemma of how to use superpowers, the whole checklist is there which isn't surprising given that it's now a Disney property. The Marvel universe films aren't a faithful adaptation of the comic book storylines, they're spectacles that draw on the source material. The new trilogy isn't faithful to the OT the way that the Harry Potter movies are faithful to the books. I think whether or not you can enjoy a SW spectacle that's only loosely attached to the OT is a big determiner for whether or not you enjoyed watching TLJ.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

sirlynchmob wrote:


use in some capacity? sure, that would have been cool to see.

The force keeping you alive in space and pulling you back to your ship? ridiculous.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/survival-in-space-unprotected-possible/

The lack of oxygen to the brain renders you unconscious in less than 15 seconds, eventually killing you. "When the pressure gets very low there is just not enough oxygen. That is really the first and most important concern," Buckey says.

Why do you assume Leia was in space longer than 15 seconds? Do you also regard the airlock scene from 2001: A Space Odyssey as impossible to believe as he was exposed to (accounting for time to pressurize the airlock after the door shuts) a vacuum for over 15 seconds?

I find it more bothersome that Leia survived her time in space completely unscathed more so than the amount of time she spent in space. If she suffered ill effects from being space, like in the scene in Event Horizon, I wouldn't mind Leia being in space for what felt like a long time. The fact that she got sucked into space, floated around a bit, then "woke up" and decided to force pull her way back to the air lock, then got taken to the med bay and hours later she was walking around fine with no visible ill effects is what strains my credulity. Exercising force powers to a more powerful extent than previously seen due to a sudden life threatening emergency is believable. Leia being immune to the harmful effects of deep space vacuum is not.