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Does anyone remember this rumor from about a year ago?



Interesting how it manifested as Leviathans adaptation.

I am pretty sure that they will FAQ the Spore mine Rule. But honestly who has 120 spore mines? Lol

Dynas wrote:
I am pretty sure that they will FAQ the Spore mine Rule. But honestly who has 120 spore mines? Lol

I have about 20ish built and maybe another dozen on sprus.

 Lance845 wrote:
Does anyone remember this rumor from about a year ago?
Interesting how it manifested as Leviathans adaptation.

Throw enough darts blindfolded and you'll hit something.

 pretre wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Does anyone remember this rumor from about a year ago?
Interesting how it manifested as Leviathans adaptation.

Throw enough darts blindfolded and you'll hit something.

It was rumored to be a snippet from a play test document for the new nid dex.

Bunch of people said the document image looked fake. I don't think so anymore. I think it's pretty likely they were testing that before they got direction to start work on 8th.

I love the Adaptions.. Far far more then either other codex I have for my armies.

They are all good, but there doesnt seem to be obviously better ones, like Alpha Legion/RavenGuard/Alitoic and Ultramarines.

I Also love how Warriors are now amazing. If strats are to be trusted,

10 warriors with Deathspitters can, shoot 30 s5 -1 d2 shots, rerolling 1s to hit, and hit on a 2+. On math thats 6.5 damage to Mortarian or 8 to a leman russ. As well as 6 dead Hellblasters.

In addition, for a CP they can spread some anti-smite hate around for a good 25% of a 6*4 board

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/31/codex-tyranids-preview-hive-fleet-adaptations-oct-31gw-homepage-post-2/

I know having the whole codex spoiled baaically killed any rumor hype but c'mon lads. Also Kraken isn't as bad as we first though. Looks like a pretty decent for a melee heavy army.

Seems like Jormungandr will be the strongest out of the gates. Much like Alpha Legion/Raven Guard/Alaitoc trait, any passive defensive trait that you don't need to meet a requirement to get is going to be good. The only requirement is "don't run", and honestly there's enough speed and movement tricks in Tyranids do not really care about it that much.

Though Behemoth reroll charges will probably be next best, since you can make those 9" SUA charges a bit more reliable.

 Astmeister wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:
I agree with Str00dles1. Imho it is just too punishing to put everything really close. Also since when is anyone playing swarms of Gants to fill the whole board?

Well, it happened in 3rd edition.

This is why I have zero interest in my Tyranids these days. Spent far too many editions overhauling my army to fit whatever the new paradigm was for that edition. And too many of them didn't look especially Tyranid-y to me.

Hope you folks have fun with them, though.

I am usually playing Tyranids with a lot of different units, which also includes 60 or so Gants. But this does not mean that I would like to play an army that floods the board with 200+ bodies. That is just too cumbersome for me and also very one dimensional.

It doesn't have to be 200 bodies. I just want something *in the ballpark* of how Tyranids are presented in the fluff. GW got Tyranids so wrong in the last edition that we ended up with low-model count, spore mine-heavy combat-avoidance armies being dominant.

I just personally can't be bothered with the pendulum swings they put Tyranids through with every codex anymore. To be clear, it's because I'm a Tyranid old-head that goes back to 2nd edition and at this point I've been through more direction changes than most. So I'm sure it bothers others a whole lot less. I'll be sticking with my GCult (even if the index rules kinda suck) and WE.

 gorgon wrote:

It doesn't have to be 200 bodies. I just want something *in the ballpark* of how Tyranids are presented in the fluff. GW got Tyranids so wrong in the last edition that we ended up with low-model count, spore mine-heavy combat-avoidance armies being dominant.

I just personally can't be bothered with the pendulum swings they put Tyranids through with every codex anymore. To be clear, it's because I'm a Tyranid old-head that goes back to 2nd edition and at this point I've been through more direction changes than most. So I'm sure it bothers others a whole lot less. I'll be sticking with my GCult (even if the index rules kinda suck) and WE.

Honestly, Tyranids are like Guard.

They don't have a single "set" method of warfare. We had the Skyswarms that showed up in Leviathan, the Genestealer Infiltration bits, the Trygon and Ravener swarms...

And all of those were fluffy.

Dynas wrote:
I am pretty sure that they will FAQ the Spore mine Rule. But honestly who has 120 spore mines? Lol

Spore Mine Rule isn't going to change. Too many things use them as ammo.

If anything the wording on the Strategem will likely read "at the end of the movement phase" or something like that. And Even then, it might be intended to spend as many CP as you want to throw down a bunch of anti-alpha strike deterants.

Time to trawl ebay for Carnifexes, Spore Mines, and commision some Hive Fleet Tokens.

Or the strategem itself might say "can only use once per battle" similar to the Eldar Webway infiltration one.

Spore mine anti outflank stuff was already solid and used heavily. There was a guy at Nova who used sporemines to dominate the Elysium heavy lists that he ran into. Ended up 7/2 or 7/3.

The ability to do them at 3 cp. Seems rather expensive, considering how quality the strats seem to be. I cant really imagine spending 9 cp on a glorified bubble wrap.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

It doesn't have to be 200 bodies. I just want something *in the ballpark* of how Tyranids are presented in the fluff. GW got Tyranids so wrong in the last edition that we ended up with low-model count, spore mine-heavy combat-avoidance armies being dominant.

I just personally can't be bothered with the pendulum swings they put Tyranids through with every codex anymore. To be clear, it's because I'm a Tyranid old-head that goes back to 2nd edition and at this point I've been through more direction changes than most. So I'm sure it bothers others a whole lot less. I'll be sticking with my GCult (even if the index rules kinda suck) and WE.

Honestly, Tyranids are like Guard.

They don't have a single "set" method of warfare. We had the Skyswarms that showed up in Leviathan, the Genestealer Infiltration bits, the Trygon and Ravener swarms...

And all of those were fluffy.

The problem is they were all dominant in different editions as the army was overhauled time after time, forcing you to buy different things each edition while the old models got put on the shelf hoping the next edition was kinder to them.

It would be a nice change to have one edition where all of those are viable ways to build the army.

jimmyjames2112 wrote:
Spore mine anti outflank stuff was already solid and used heavily. There was a guy at Nova who used sporemines to dominate the Elysium heavy lists that he ran into. Ended up 7/2 or 7/3.

The ability to do them at 3 cp. Seems rather expensive, considering how quality the strats seem to be. I cant really imagine spending 9 cp on a glorified bubble wrap.

Two units could be 12 spore mines since one unit is up to 6. Until we see the wording in the book, we won't know if it means full units or not.

Spread them out and you've got a decent amount of coverage just from 3 cp.

 Carnikang wrote:

jimmyjames2112 wrote:
Spore mine anti outflank stuff was already solid and used heavily. There was a guy at Nova who used sporemines to dominate the Elysium heavy lists that he ran into. Ended up 7/2 or 7/3.

The ability to do them at 3 cp. Seems rather expensive, considering how quality the strats seem to be. I cant really imagine spending 9 cp on a glorified bubble wrap.

Two units could be 12 spore mines since one unit is up to 6. Until we see the wording in the book, we won't know if it means full units or not.

Spread them out and you've got a decent amount of coverage just from 3 cp.

Exactly never underestimate the coverage. I made a cultist alpha legion khorne deathstar and man when you can deny reserve units woth the only rule being 9’ or more away it really limits reserve units from dropping in. I have actually dropped 9 CP on a bubble wrap in a casual game and it was pretty entertaining. Tyranids will probably have a similar strategems so just remember outside of synapse they still can drop 2 cp to auto pass morale tests from book.

I usually bring a couple units of spore mines anyways just to throw down during deployment and mess with deep strikers.

I'm worried that more Fearless swarms (orks too) are going to strain the meta even more. Guard has already shown us that other armies struggle to field anti horde firepower and anti armor firepower in the same list efficiently. I'm concerned that space marines will have to choose between enough anti horde to fight nids/orks, and enough anti armor to fight guard. Whereas Guard is able to manage both pretty effectively right now.

It seems that a big factor overlooked in 8th is the massive drop in anti horde firepower (especially for space marines.) We used to have flamers and blasts that were very effective and cheap. Now they are neither. And more, we used to be able to count on basic bolter fire to thin down stuff like boyz blobs. But with the changes to AP and saves, Bolters lost a LOT of their effectiveness as anti horde. Guants and Boyz don't have great saves, but ap5 used to ignore them entirely.

I believe the new Morale system was supposed to compensate for this drop in anti horde firepower, and it would on its own. But with all the major horde armies having easy sources of Fearless, what's going to happen? It hasn't been an issue so far only because those armies don't have their codices yet.

It seems that we're going to need a change to anti horde weapons if Marines are going to be able to compete without major list tailoring. If we still had old style Template and Blast rules this wouldn't be a problem. But 1d6 hits vs a horde is a joke compared to getting 5-9 in the past (and ignoring cover, on a free or 5pt weapon.) If flamers were 1d3+1 hits per 5 models in the target unit, then perhaps things would work.

Anyone else worried about this, or am I missing something?

Yeah, Anti-Horde firepower on 8th is severely lacking. More bonuses per group of models like the Grav Bombard of the leviathan Dread has could help to fix that.

Obviously, the objetive is to make them effective Anti-horde weapons, not to erase Hordes from the game, like before happened. So they should try to reach a middle point.

Flamers being 1d6 hits, +1 hit for every 5/10 models past the first 10 could be something good as you said, etc...

I can say that after Tyranid Synapse is gone (and they're not that inaccesible/defensible) Leadership in our army is pretty garbage. 5 and less I believe on swarm monsters.

Not worried about it, and not because I usually don't have to worry about it. If something's up, I'm optimistic that GW is going to fix it. They've already shown they're willing to change things.

Throw in a universal 1cp stratagem 'Cleaving Blows' that makes one unit's damage carry over from model to model in a single fight phase. So a 3-damage thunder hammer kills 3 guardsman for each successful attack, for example. Adds anti-horde to everyone in a limited capacity and makes melee more useful at the same time.

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
But with the changes to AP and saves, Bolters lost a LOT of their effectiveness as anti horde. Guants and Boyz don't have great saves, but ap5 used to ignore them entirely.

It was an issue when the basic Space Marine weapon ignored the most common armor employed by anything that wasn't a Space Marine.

 adamsouza wrote:

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
But with the changes to AP and saves, Bolters lost a LOT of their effectiveness as anti horde. Guants and Boyz don't have great saves, but ap5 used to ignore them entirely.

It was an issue when the basic Space Marine weapon ignored the most common armor employed by anything that wasn't a Space Marine.

I played 4th, 5th, and 6th but not 7th, so perhaps I'm missing something, but "Bolters are too powerful against hordes" is not something anyone ever said. This was not an issue.

Doesn't matter really.

The Assault Cannon Razorback may as well be the new Tac Marine anyway. 12 Str. 6 AP -1 shots on a 10 Wounds, T7 platform for 100 points is hard to beat. Even double-shooting Leman Russes, Fire Prism, etc. in anti-infantry mode. nothing quite matches that raw damage output/per point. Shiny new Primaris Tactials for the same 100 points are just 10 Str. 4 AP -1 shots with 10 Wounds at T, and only if you are in rapid fire range.. Old school Tac Marines barely get 2 extra crappy bolters shots over the Razorback at 100 points. And a H/K Missile is also far cheaper than a heavy weapon in a Tac Squad, doesn't reduce your anti-infantry firepower and is largely sufficient these days, when 40K games are mostly 2 turn affairs.

Bubble wrap a bit against charges/mortal wounds and you're good.

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
But with the changes to AP and saves, Bolters lost a LOT of their effectiveness as anti horde. Guants and Boyz don't have great saves, but ap5 used to ignore them entirely.

It was an issue when the basic Space Marine weapon ignored the most common armor employed by anything that wasn't a Space Marine.

I played 4th, 5th, and 6th but not 7th, so perhaps I'm missing something, but "Bolters are too powerful against hordes" is not something anyone ever said. This was not an issue.

I played those same editions and bolters were a big reason as to why genestealers weren't fielded after 4th and even then you didn't take them without extended carapace.

Just wondering, do we know the official colour schemes of the newer hive fleets yet?

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

I played 4th, 5th, and 6th but not 7th, so perhaps I'm missing something, but "Bolters are too powerful against hordes" is not something anyone ever said. This was not an issue.

Did you ever wonder why Orks either show in Mega Armor or Green Tides ?

See many Eldar Guardians ?

Imperial Guard in numbers soo large they hope you don't have enough turns to gun them all down ?

This game has spent decades conditioning anyone who fields anything out of power armor in large enough numbers to take casualties and still have models left.

Also, I didn't say "Bolters are too powerful against hordes" either. It's no fun dying without an armor save. Heavy Weapons should deny armor saves, basic weapons should not.

Marleymoo wrote:
Just wondering, do we know the official colour schemes of the newer hive fleets yet?

I don't think so; I don't think there's even anything much on it in the new WD as most of it is the stuff already leaked on the community pages. I think that we might see the new fleet in colour later this week if not on the weekend. That said I don't think GW will push it too hard; the paint scheem we have now on the front of the box is the "Face" of tyranids likely for a long while yet - probably until they update the gaunt boxes (not that I forsee them doing that for many more years)

 Sim-Life wrote:


I played those same editions and bolters were a big reason as to why genestealers weren't fielded after 4th and even then you didn't take them without extended carapace.

That's true. I was very sad when Stealers not only lost grenades, but they also gave tac marines Overwatch. Having a stealer rapid fired up as it popped from outflank, then, again as it charged, to only go last caused my 20 box to sit in my basement for the last 8 years.

As a marine player tho, its annoying that the most expensive MEQ troop, has the worst gun. Why not have something like, 3 shots in Rapid Fire range. or, exploding 6s to wound.

Codex Tyranid Preview: Commanding your Swarm

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/01/codex-tyranids-preview-day-3-commanding-your-swarm-nov-1gw-homepage-post-2/