New Tyranid Codex (preorder 4th Nov, release 11th Nov)

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**Galas**

Kanluwen wrote:
Eihnlazer wrote:
As for swarmy, you could still give him the one relic that gives him a random stat every turn (ymgarl thing) since you don't trade it out for anything and hope he rolls toughness. T8 on a 4++ with 5+ fnp (catalyst) is hard to take out.

Named characters can't take Relics anywhere else, so I would be super annoyed if Swarmlord was able to take one.

No other Named Character is like the Swarmlord. I don't think he will have the option to take relics, nor Old-One Eye's, etc... but... who knows.

**Niiai**

Is T7 a big cut of point?

**gigasnail**

Doesn't do anything for small arms, but S6 wounds on a 5, S7 on a 4. It's not bad at all.

**DarthDiggler**

Oh I don’t know. I figure a unit of 3 carnifexes with Kraken can move 7” and advance the highest of 3d6. Then in the psychic phase cast onslaught on them. Then in the shooting phase the Swarmlord can have them move again 7 more inches and advance the highest of 3D6 again. This is a 24” move right and then the unit can still assault. You can do the same trick with a large unit of Genestealers but get 28” up the board and assault and you don’t need catalyst to help.

**Hulksmash**

Carnifex aren't units. They are only deployed together as a single drop. After deployment they are individual units.

**Eihnlazer**

Yep atm genestealers are the best unit to buff other than hive tyrants and superheavies.

20 stealers/w toxin and catalyst, a second move by swarmy, and a broodlord nearbye deal out enough dmg to kill almost anything.

80 str 4 -1 armor attacks that hit on 2 and do 2 dmg and -4 armor +1 more damage on a 5 to wound kill something or somethings and probably survive the retaliation.

Granted setting that up will probably cost 5 command points or more.

**Arachnofiend**

Niiai wrote:
Is T7 a big cut of point?

Not... really, to be honest. T6 and T7 are the same against the S8 and S9 things that usually get shot at a big monster like a hive tyrant. In fact the only good weapon that's coming to mind that it'd make any difference on is razorback assault cannons.

**Eihnlazer**

T7 helps againgst all str6 and 7 weaponry, but that's it.

Honestly theres a lot of str6 in assault so its a buff there, and autocannons are probably the most common str7 guns I worry about.

Oh it also helps against str12 melee, but not a huge amount of that.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Lance845 wrote:
Tau have a 30" rapid fire 1 str 5 dmg 1
Bolters are 24" rapid fire 1 str 4 dmg 1
Fleshborers are 12" assault 1 str 4 dmg 1
Lasguns are 24 rapid fire 1 str 3 dmg 1
Shoota are 18" assault 2 str 4 dmg 1

Lasguns are weaker, come on cheaper platforms and those platforms die a lot faster

Shootas and fleshborers loose some to a lot on range to gain assault with shootas getting an extra shot to have categorically worse chance to hit.

Tau are clearly the best but come on less durable platforms with a 4+ BS, no chances for any of the special or heavy weapons, and they crumple instantly in melee.

Across the board. Those guns on their platforms seem balanced to me. You have space marines with good (for infantry) toughness and (for anyone) saves running around with a 0 point rapid fire gun with a range that is second only to the tau and the higher end of the str spectrum for free infantry guns that tips them over the critical point of wounding on 3+ against GEQ and 4+ against MEQ and only wounding on a 6 against T8+.

I honestly believe what SM players are seeing is a hold over from 7th. Your used to having ap6 from 7th meaning all those gribbly hordes lost all their saves. But str 4 over 3 is a big deal. And it's even bigger on a 3+ BS platform with a 3+ save that can fair decently enough in melee whether geared for it or not.

Any buff to a bolter would be insanity.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

On topic, loving these previews. Strategems are pretty damn fluffy and neato as a whole.

My only concern is Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors being a hard counter to that one Hive Fleet. It makes the two former attractive, but I dunno. Just wish the Hive Fleet had a differing bonus of some kind.

Its only a hard counter to the adaptation. Jormungdr's rumored stratagem is going to make for some very diverse and incredible tactics on the table. I wouldn't even care if I lost my cover fighting them with what I intend to pull off with the stratagem.

S4 really isn't a big deal as much as you'd think. The profile of a Bolter is better than the Fleshborer and Lasgun by itself, but Mathhammer shows that those platforms perform better with the lesser weaponry, because the numbers are better. Then we have the better profiles of the Shoota (Assault 2 18" is better), the Tau S5 30" range, the Dire Avenger 18" Assault 2 but with Bladestorm, and the S4/-1 or S5/-2 of the Necron troops.

Would it really hurt to throw Bolt weaponry a bone at this point?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Niiai wrote:
Is T7 a big cut of point?

Nah. It's fair.

**Galas**

Bolters are actually fine in Sisters of Battle, because their cost and stats make the bolter as efective as a Marine. Then, they are worse at receiving fire and at meele, but those things aren't as important.

But this is offtopic!

**Slayer-Fan123**

Galas wrote:
Bolters are actually fine in Sisters of Battle, because their cost and stats make the bolter as efective as a Marine. Then, they are worse at receiving fire and at meele, but those things aren't as important.

But this is offtopic!

Sisters work because they get more special weapons that are doing the heavy lifting for the cost. They're one of the better designed troop choices, but I would still want that Bolter change on them as well.

**NinthMusketeer**

Put the bolter discussion to rest guys, it's way off topic.

**Carnikang**

All that's left is the codex really... that and them announcing the new Start collecting and any additional products (be they dice or card).

**NinthMusketeer**

Tyranid dice; made from real biomass!

**Mr_Rose**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
Tyranid dice; made from real biomass!

Make 'em two-part like the Nurgle dice and make the pips squishy eyes.

**Carnikang**

I'd settle for each side to have a number off tiny mouths. But eyes would be cool too.

**cuda1179**

Tougness 7 can make a difference against some armies.

Tau Missiles and plasma are strength 6 and 7. Kroot rifles

Any Imperial/Chaos plasma weapon, autocannon, grenade launcher, multilaser, imperial guard power fist, krak grenades, assault cannons. If you are facing Knights, their Gatling weapon

Eldar scatter lasers, shuriken cannons, star cannons, plasma weapons, scorpion claws.

Sure, it's not the best thing out there, but it does help.

**xttz**

T7 also helps a bit against some of the strength 12 weapons out there which are becoming more common, such as D-cannons, Prism cannon and Dreadnought CCWs

**Lance845**

Yeah. T7 is a clear step up from 6. It's not the critical junction that 8 is, but it's definitely nice.

**xttz**

Plus there are a couple of options to get +1T on Hive Tyrants, so they can reach that crucial T8

**N.I.B.**

skarsol wrote:
Jin wrote:
These strats are pretty solid overall.

Feeder Tendrils is essentially a 'must use' since you pretty much are giving yourself 67% chance of gaining CPs if you hit the pre-reqs.

The Psychic Barrage, while amusing, seems a pain in the ass to try to pull off. Not to mention that it apparently also affects friendlies (easy to mitigate, but still).

Pathogenic Slime is gonna be really good. I'm expecting my Exocrines/Tfexes to make good use of it.

Hyper-Toxicity will make Gorgon stealers w/ toxin sacs nastier.

Deepest Shadow will be nice against psyker spam.

Caustic Blood will be nice to use when someone is trying to (and likely going to) slice through Horms or Termas.

Tendrils is kind of silly since it's 'must use'.

Barrage is way too many hoops to jump through (like most of the other full unit shooting stratagems for other armies).

Slime is great. As is Hyper-Toxicity.

Deepest Shadow is almost worthless against psyker spam. It's great against armies with a low number of powerful psykers. If your opponent has 10 guys casting Smite, possibly stopping one of them isn't that great.

Caustic Blood is crazy cause you can use it on your fight phase and the opponent can't opt not to fight back.

Tendrils is awesome because it's a win situation - you can't possible lose any CP on it.

Deepest Shadow has matchup limits (no Psykers at all, cheap Psyker spam) which doesn't matter since it's a stratagem and thus optional.

Caustic Blood isn't that great (18 bodies ~3 MWs), although a nice on-the-fly tool when the situation calls for it.

Togusa wrote:
Lance845 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Dynas wrote:
The Hive Tyrant Adaptive Biology seems really good. With the increase toughness and invul save, stacked with that, you can never take more than 1 damage per attack. No more lascannons dropping multi wounds. You now will have to actually wound 12 separate times.

Not that good. It's after END of first phase. So alpha striking tyranids becomes more important than ever(sigh). First shooting phase it's T7 4++ W12. If you can get those 12 wounds on first shooting phase neither of bonuses matter.

To be fair, the 4++ is going to make it pretty rough. You will need a LOT of shots dedicated to shooting it down to accomplish that.

I wanted to draw some attention to this comment for a second. Speaking as someone who loves his Swarmy, you are very correct. I've played over 50 games since 8th dropped with my Swarmy, and he goes down like [MOD EDIT - There has to be a better way to express that. - Alpharius] It has been awful to watch him run down the field, only to have 6/10 times him die before ever reaching a viable charging target. For a 300 point investment, I'm so happy Swarmy now has this ability!

Sorry to rain on your parade, but Swarmy is locked into the lame 're-deploy' Warlord trait. Pretty useless for a guy that has to sit in a pod 8/10 times or with Guards 2/10 times.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Luke_Prowler wrote:
Caustic blood is a pretty mean spirited stratagem. Anything that can wipe out a gaunt or genestrealer unit in one turn via assault will get wiped out in kind for only one CP

It completely turns off Khorne Berzerkers... that stratagem might be overtuned.

Dunno.

Even if I’ve got a full unit of 40 Gaunts, and lose them all in a single round of combat from having their heads kicked in (as opposed to Battleshock), I’m only inflicting an average of 6 or 7 Wounds, depending on whether you round up or down.

It’s useful, sure. But hardly game or deal breaking. I mean, I’ve still lost 40 Gaunts to pull that off.

Gants are max 30 so max 5 MWs. Not good, maybe bad, even.

Hulksmash wrote:
Why take anything other than a dakka fex that has 24 shots, 2+ save, -1 to hit, and bs3+ for all of 110pts?

This. Let the Kronos backline deal with vehicles. Dakkafexes melts the rest.

**tneva82**

N.I.B. wrote:

Tendrils is awesome because it's a win situation - you can't possible lose any CP on it.

Which is why it's stupid and shouldn't have been done. If something is autotake/autouse you know there's something wrong.

Gants are max 30 so max 5 MWs. Not good, maybe bad, even.

Umm it's random roll so rather than max 5MW it's average 5MW, max 30. On 40k general topic there's discussion about probability vs average calculations.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

tneva82 wrote:
N.I.B. wrote:

Tendrils is awesome because it's a win situation - you can't possible lose any CP on it.

Which is why it's stupid and shouldn't have been done. If something is autotake/autouse you know there's something wrong.

Gants are max 30 so max 5 MWs. Not good, maybe bad, even.

Umm it's random roll so rather than max 5MW it's average 5MW, max 30. On 40k general topic there's discussion about probability vs average calculations.

It's not autowin on Tendrils though. I need to get the right gribbly eating the right brain. That's not terribly difficult for my opponent to dodge.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for the acid, that has to be declared before the combat. It's not one I can simply save up as a petty revenge tactic should a given combat be horribly one sided. As I said, it's useful, but not game breaking.

**tneva82**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It's not autowin on Tendrils though. I need to get the right gribbly eating the right brain. That's not terribly difficult for my opponent to dodge.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for the acid, that has to be declared before the combat. It's not one I can simply save up as a petty revenge tactic should a given combat be horribly one sided. As I said, it's useful, but not game breaking.

Yes but if you kill character it's auto-use. It's not "use before attacking". It's "use if you kill character". In other words only MAYBE loss tyranids have from that is if there's fixed number of strategems Tyranids ever will have and this replaced even better one...In game there's only anything to claim.

And didn't say acid is broken or anything. Just noted max wounds is hardly 5. I have got more 6's than 5 with far less dices than 30.

**Requizen**

tneva82 wrote:
N.I.B. wrote:

Tendrils is awesome because it's a win situation - you can't possible lose any CP on it.

Which is why it's stupid and shouldn't have been done. If something is autotake/autouse you know there's something wrong.

There's nothing wrong, it's just a bonus you get for being pure Tyranids and meeting a certain condition. That's like saying Chapter Tactics or Warlord Traits are stupid and shouldn't be done because you always get them.

**tneva82**

Requizen wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
N.I.B. wrote:

Tendrils is awesome because it's a win situation - you can't possible lose any CP on it.

Which is why it's stupid and shouldn't have been done. If something is autotake/autouse you know there's something wrong.

There's nothing wrong, it's just a bonus you get for being pure Tyranids and meeting a certain condition. That's like saying Chapter Tactics or Warlord Traits are stupid and shouldn't be done because you always get them.

Chapter tactic at least sacrifices OTHER chapter tactic. This one sacrifices nothing. Do other factions have free CP with no drawback strategems?

Free stuff was curse word in this forum during 7th ed(gladius etc). Suddenly it's okay because it's on tyranids?

**xttz**

tneva82 wrote:

Chapter tactic at least sacrifices OTHER chapter tactic. This one sacrifices nothing. Do other factions have free CP with no drawback strategems?

No, they just get a chance at free CP just from choosing certain units, warlord traits or relics: Gulliman, Abaddon, Tallyman, Kurov's Aquila, Fate Reader

Tyranids can get free CP from both choosing specific units and successfully performing a specific action with them.

What's the difference?

**Lythrandire Biehrellian**

Yup, most armies so far can get command points back somehow, the tyranid one requires your assassin's to go hunting as opposed to the commander simply being good at it.

**Dynas**

I wonder if they Malanthrope will be added to the Feeder Tendrils strategem. Only time will tell.

**Kanluwen**

Dynas wrote:
I wonder if they Malanthrope will be added to the Feeder Tendrils strategem. Only time will tell.

Is the Malanthrope in the Codex?

No. It very likely will not be.