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The ladies doth protest too much methinks.

A lot of arguments used, which are valid, but so much one sided posting it's laughable.

Legion isn't the next coming of The Emperor, but it's not the downfall of the Empire with what people are saying.

The quality is just fine for tabletop miniatures from what I have in hand. The amount of modeling I'd need to do is no different from 90% of what I'd have to do for other games, GW included.

For @ $200 I have 2 x 800 point armies which is the standard army size. It also includes everything I need to play. Pretty good value IMO.

The models are not at current GW quality, but I also think this is on purpose. These models are very easy and quick to assemble. In a pinch, assemble and play all in a single day.

Looking at some of my older GW models still in production (Warp Spiders for example), I think the mini quality is just fine, especially for the price point. Not that I am one, but talented painters can do a lot with these

Not say it will surpass 40K, but the game is refreshing and a nice change of pace.

Got my hands on some of them today, I was pleasantly surprised with the models.

I might grab some of them up, but I have a lot of other things that need taking care of first.

I don't know what everyone is making a fuss about. The minis are just fine.

ElvisJuice wrote:
Glad I passed on this now. FFG just aren't up to doing a mass battle tabletop game to modern standards.

Legion is a skirmish game?
WTF is your definition of mass battle?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jake wrote:
It looks like at least one of these models is just a Trooper from the first set with a cloak sculpted on.



its harder to tell with the others. Some of them look like they may be older sculpts with cloaks, and possibly new heads or arms. A few of them look like they're older sculpts that have been mirrored. But as I said, its hard to tell.

Variety is really nice, but there's no good reason to be repeating sculpts like this.

I doubt its a resculpt (still not bothered too much if it is tbh) but there are only so many ways to do that pose, it could just be a similar sculpt.
Tbf if it is a resculpt that's pretty cheap of ffg though.

Does anyone remember the Star Wars Command figures? I was cleaning up my game room and found a ton of them I'd bought when the price tanked on them a few years back.

I wonder if they're about the right size for Legion?

S'blocked for size...

angel of death 007 wrote:

 jake wrote:

angel of death 007 wrote:


It all comes down to you get what you pay for, if you want diamonds buy diamonds, if you are happy with looks like diamonds buy cubic z's. The fact of the matter is yes had GW done starwars they would have been a lot better but a squad of 7 storm troopers would also be around $50 USD. So at half that for rank and file models.... I think it is a no brainer. Some people are happy paying Lexus prices for a Toyota. Others are more reasonable with their money.

Yes, you obviously get what you pay for. My argument is that Fantasy Flight could have made something better that I actually would have been excited to pay a little more for. Saying "Its not very good, but it only costs $25" isn't a really compelling argument. It's not a "no brainer" if the models are so poor that I regret buying them.

I know not everyone is going to feel that way, but I do. I want the models I invest my limited resources into to actually be good. I'm not interested in "good enough". Thats why this product has been a letdown for me.

At the end of the day you are going to have people who are going to get them to play with for the game... these models may or may not be painted more then likely won't be. And seeing how it is meant to be a multi minature wargame several boxes of squads or whatever add up and are needed to make an army much like GW.

The other way to look at it is for people who want to collect or display. Here is where painting and conversion comes in big. They are not painting one model and putting it under a magnifying glass on a display they are painting several. So are you only going to paint 3 or 4 storm troopers or will you want like 20. A dileramma is a bit different then I can understand this but even for those they require a lot of modifications on the original models.

So to play an army based game lets look at the pros and cons. Having to buy multiple rank and file models... Legion wins here, cheaper prices... oh and wait... Legion also comes with everything to use the models in the box. So if you want a squad of storm troopers you buy a squad of storm troopers for $20 (online) or $25 in store.

GW... you want a squad.. you buy one to 4 boxes of models at $30-50 each box, a $40 ish dollar codex, just to use said models, and pay an extra $15 if you want their cards... So basically min around $70 to field one squad or up to around $240... and this is just 1 squad of rank and file troopers.

I really don't see your argument, if you are getting them for gaming then you can get an army or the majority of it for the cost of one squad which you need numerous others to play. I am saying that if you want army scale wargaming and you have a budget, this gives you an option that GW just doesn't offer. This could be the game for the every man.... where GW is geared toward the plastic crack addicts who will pay anything to get their fix.

Fantasy Flight could have produced better quality models without resorting to GW prices. Lots of companies do. If you find these models acceptable, thats fine for you. And probably a lot of other people. But their quality is notably sub-par compared to many, many other miniatures lines, not just GWs stuff. Wouldn't it have been nice if Fantasy Flight HAD made better quality models for this game? Wouldn't you have preferred that? Wouldn't everyone? I think they could have done a better job and still kept the price point the same or not much higher. I don't really understand the "I don't want better models" argument. If mediocre models are good enough for gaming than surely good models are better, right? And if you can have good models for the same price (or maybe slightly more) why would you want mediocre ones?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Neronoxx wrote:

ElvisJuice wrote:
Glad I passed on this now. FFG just aren't up to doing a mass battle tabletop game to modern standards.

Legion is a skirmish game?
WTF is your definition of mass battle?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jake wrote:
It looks like at least one of these models is just a Trooper from the first set with a cloak sculpted on.



its harder to tell with the others. Some of them look like they may be older sculpts with cloaks, and possibly new heads or arms. A few of them look like they're older sculpts that have been mirrored. But as I said, its hard to tell.

Variety is really nice, but there's no good reason to be repeating sculpts like this.

I doubt its a resculpt (still not bothered too much if it is tbh) but there are only so many ways to do that pose, it could just be a similar sculpt.
Tbf if it is a resculpt that's pretty cheap of ffg though.

its literally the same model with a cloak sculpted over it. If you own the model and compare it to the photo its REALLY obvious. Its not just a similar pose.

Fantasy Flight could have produced better quality models without resorting to GW prices. Lots of companies do. If you find these models acceptable, thats fine for you. And probably a lot of other people. But their quality is notably sub-par compared to many, many other miniatures lines, not just GWs stuff. Wouldn't it have been nice if Fantasy Flight HAD made better quality models for this game? Wouldn't you have preferred that? Wouldn't everyone? I think they could have done a better job and still kept the price point the same or not much higher. I don't really understand the "I don't want better models" argument. If mediocre models are good enough for gaming than surely good models are better, right? And if you can have good models for the same price (or maybe slightly more) why would you want mediocre ones?

So... is the theory here that repeating the word 'mediocre' over and over will somehow change other people's opinions? Seems like wishful thinking tbh.

You've yet to demonstrate that they're "mediocre" by any objective standard, just in your opinion. Which is fine, you're entitled to it, but unless you can actually demonstrate all these "many, many other" superior plastic miniature lines, or show in what way specifically the Legions models are "mediocre" there's no reason for anyone to treat it as more than that.

To my eye, these are not mediocre:





They're not the greatest models ever to grace the face of planet earth, but they look like what they're supposed to look like, they're well detailed, and that detail is sufficiently sharp and deep that I can use the same painting techniques I use on GW models and get solid results.

Now like I said, for all I know FFG shipped out a lot of sub-par product and you got a dud box or something, but if you're looking at photos like that and telling me the subjects are "mediocre" and lacking detail, that they're substantially worse than most other plastic wargaming models floating around out there, I'd have to suggest it's your standards that are unreasonable rather than ours.

 ScarletRose wrote:

Fantasy Flight could have produced better quality models without resorting to GW prices. Lots of companies do. If you find these models acceptable, thats fine for you. And probably a lot of other people. But their quality is notably sub-par compared to many, many other miniatures lines, not just GWs stuff. Wouldn't it have been nice if Fantasy Flight HAD made better quality models for this game? Wouldn't you have preferred that? Wouldn't everyone? I think they could have done a better job and still kept the price point the same or not much higher. I don't really understand the "I don't want better models" argument. If mediocre models are good enough for gaming than surely good models are better, right? And if you can have good models for the same price (or maybe slightly more) why would you want mediocre ones?

So... is the theory here that repeating the word 'mediocre' over and over will somehow change other people's opinions? Seems like wishful thinking tbh.

I'm just stating my own. Obviously different people are going to have different standards, and some people simply won't care about sharper details, better quality plastic or cleaner casting (for any number of reasons). And thats fine. But if you do care about that stuff and you were hoping for a set of well done, quality models, I think its understandable to be disappointed.

For those of you who don't actually own the models yet but think they look great based on Fantasy Flight's photos or videos of models given to painters before the release, I'd really recommend taking a close look at the models in person before you decide to buy (or buy more than you already have.

I've said enough n this topic. I hope none of you regret your purchases and I hope you enjoy the game.

 jake wrote:


I've said enough n this topic. I hope none of you regret your purchases and I hope you enjoy the game.

And the grapes were probably sour anyway...

--

To my eye, these are not mediocre:

Thanks for more pics. It looks like a few mold lines and maybe some greenstuff on the shoulder joints, but it shouldn't be a problem at all.

Neronoxx wrote:

ElvisJuice wrote:
Glad I passed on this now. FFG just aren't up to doing a mass battle tabletop game to modern standards.

Legion is a skirmish game?
WTF is your definition of mass battle?

Lol, no it isn't. Imperial Assault is a skirmish game. Legion is a wargame, multiple squads and vehicles per side. And I was using mass battle as a catch-all to include this and that cruddy Runewars thing they did, since that's another example of a (in my opinion, I realise this is subjective, please calm down) bold attempt let down by the models.

Are there any other companies making star wars minis? I had another game yesterday and liking the system more and more. But those minis stink.

Happy to pay a premium for better, has anyone got any good leads?

ElvisJuice wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:

ElvisJuice wrote:
Glad I passed on this now. FFG just aren't up to doing a mass battle tabletop game to modern standards.

Legion is a skirmish game?
WTF is your definition of mass battle?

Lol, no it isn't. Imperial Assault is a skirmish game. Legion is a wargame, multiple squads and vehicles per side. And I was using mass battle as a catch-all to include this and that cruddy Runewars thing they did, since that's another example of a (in my opinion, I realise this is subjective, please calm down) bold attempt let down by the models.

There's no ISO committee to define terminology; it's pretty common to describe a game as a "skirmish game" if the models are individually based. Others take it to mean a game with a small model count, or alternatively one where models are not grouped into units. All three of those definithions can overlap, but have significant differences too.

A confrontation involving twenty soldiers and a single light recce vehicle is a skirmish, really.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Smellingsalts wrote:
I think if you are a painter or modeler this game is not for you. There are metal kits and plastic model kits for Star Wars and they are great.

I know there's model kits available from Revell, but metal models? Only West End Games, WotC and Knight models ever made metal Star Wars miniatures to my knowledge, and they're all long out of production.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Thebiggesthat wrote:
Are there any other companies making star wars minis? I had another game yesterday and liking the system more and more. But those minis stink.

Happy to pay a premium for better, has anyone got any good leads?

At the moment, the only people making Star Wars infantry models are Fantasy Flight Games and LEGO. And whoever it is makes the 4" toys these days.

The Wizkids pre-painted collectible figures should still be reasonably easy to come by on Ebay, but they're not "better". Knight Models made some good miniatures, but the range was limited (A squad of five Stormtroopers, a squad of five Sandtroopers, two Royal Guard, a Scouttrooper on speeder bike and Darth Vader for the Imperials, and RotJ Luke, ANH Leia, ANH Han and ESB Chewie with disassembled Threepio for the Rebels, plus Boba Fett and a load of Clone Wars Jedi and battle droids). Nice for painting, useless for gaming.

My ten cents worth: for the price - and in the UK the comparison to GW is much closer - it's pretty good. The models don't require much cleanup - I did 2 cores worth of rebels and the speeder in under an hour and no parts required straightening. The monopose issue is easily sorted - snip off the connector peg and just glue in the hole as required. I managed to give all 4 squad leaders a different look just by doing this .

Granted it seems quality control is an issue but this is not unique to FFG and is also seen with Warlord, mantic and Privateer, to name a few. GW quality control is excellent and in 25 years of buying I've had 2 sprue issues and one mispack.

It's actually nice to have a game where it doesnt require assembling 100 odd bits to make ten troopers.

The rebrl spec ops look good, they're realistic in the context of the universe - and it's cool you have s couple of unit options in the box with the rules / cards. Han will, I think , have a dual slot option.

Oh I absolutely agree with the ease of building thing, as someone that has built 30 primaris, each one with about 20 bits, I like an easy assemble mini.

But it's just the lack of detail. And the miscasting.

I think I'll just end up accepting it, and enjoying the gameplay.

 ScarletRose wrote:

 jake wrote:


I've said enough n this topic. I hope none of you regret your purchases and I hope you enjoy the game.

And the grapes were probably sour anyway...

--

To my eye, these are not mediocre:

Thanks for more pics. It looks like a few mold lines and maybe some greenstuff on the shoulder joints, but it shouldn't be a problem at all.

NP, and note that they are not FFG promo pics but from a review, though obviously there's still a danger FFG chose the best possible casts for all the review copies it sent out or which just happened to be bought by reviewers and Elvis is working at a game store in North Dakota etc etc EDIT: And if someone has got a gak quality box, why just accept it? The promo and review images out there are pretty universally similar, if the models you were sold don't meet that standard then contact the retailer and demand a replacement.

I pre-ordered and have now assembled all of my Rebels.

As someone who has handled/assembled/painted miniatures from at least 30+ lines over the last 15 years, these minis are the jam. They're solid, they're clean, they're easy to assemble, they have minimal (and easily fixed) mold lines, and the sculpts are really sharp. Even the bases are really nice and thick/solid.

I will concede that they look considerably better in person, but I still really can't understand why these models are getting such hate.

I've had them in my hand. I've assembled models from most game systems released in the last 10 years, and painted on commission for quite a few.

It's opinion. More importantly, it's what you as a hobbyist is happy with. But you are no more right than me or anyone else in this thread

 Pugnacious_Cee wrote:
I pre-ordered and have now assembled all of my Rebels.

As someone who has handled/assembled/painted miniatures from at least 30+ lines over the last 15 years, these minis are the jam. They're solid, they're clean, they're easy to assemble, they have minimal (and easily fixed) mold lines, and the sculpts are really sharp. Even the bases are really nice and thick/solid.

I will concede that they look considerably better in person, but I still really can't understand why these models are getting such hate.

As I said earlier it is the character models that are the problem. The vehicles look great and the troops look decent but the character models look really poor.
In most games the character models get the most attention and the best sculpts, but the opposite is true here. The faces are the worst part but the poses are not great either.

I'd bet that they don't have the nessesary personal image likenesses from the actors (or actors estates) to actually have the characters who aren't; covered in masks/makeup look like the people, you see much the same problem with action figures etc

If we ever get to the new movies they probably will as the movie companies are much better about tying that sort of stuff up nowadays when a lot of blockbusters make as much in toys and other merch as in ticket sales

 Pugnacious_Cee wrote:

I will concede that they look considerably better in person, but I still really can't understand why these models are getting such hate.

A lot of FFGs promo material doesn't have the best paint jobs and for whatever reason makes them look a lot shorter than they are in person. From the pictures I've seen I was expecting something squatty like the Walking Dead minis. In person they stand out better, they're taller and feel better proportioned and the faces feel like there's better detail to work with. I have been finding more and more that people are often fooled by exceptional paint jobs or blown up renders and the FFG pictures definitely aren't pulling that trick.

That said, they're not GREAT by any means. They are the newer PVC that's harder and holds detail better than the soft stuff we saw at the dawn of Kickstarter, but they're still PVC for the most part. They're easy to work with though and look properly iconic once you get some paint on them and that makes the whole thing more exciting than it would be otherwise. It's also worth noting that the larger stuff is made in a nicer styrene. It's done thicker than GW or Wyrd and feels closer to PP's stuff, but it means stuff like the AT-ST is sporting nice sharp lines and the speeder bikes are pretty spot on perfect.

Anyway, overall I'm happy with my purchase, but a lot of that is because the game itself is fun. The models are good enough and I was pretty happy with what I was able to pull out of this guy:

I'd rate the models as "middling" myself; they look like they're supposed to and are slightly more detailed than what one would find in a true mass-market offering. Someone said they're reminiscent of Mantic's initial DeadZone offerings and that's about where I'd situate them myself. Nothing to be ashamed of from a gaming perspective, but unlikely to be something where individual models really get held up as display pieces, especially the characters who I think Orlando has the right of that they're not actually allowed to make them look like the actors.

They're not up to the standards of a high-end GW kit, but it's also not priced as such. I do think that in terms of detailing/execution, Dreamforge's stormtroopers are far superior, but they're not "the" Star Wars stormtrooper either (for obvious reasons). They can (obviously) still be made to look nice, but I think they are a comparatively weaker foundation for it than other offerings. Grey Knights, as an example, can be made to look very nice with minimal skills because the foundation provided by the model is that much stronger. With Legion it feels like the onus is much more on the painter to make them look their best, and the ceiling of how good they can be made to look is likely a bit lower. At the end of the day though, they're being manufactured to be gaming pieces and not display pieces per se, so that will likely be sufficient for the market.

While most of the infantry models assemble easily enough, I do wonder if the AT-ST and similar kits will be off-putting to the board game crowd. I've heard anecdotes that there's a good chance for resistance to even the assembly of the infantry in that segment of the market.

 Krinsath wrote:

While most of the infantry models assemble easily enough, I do wonder if the AT-ST and similar kits will be off-putting to the board game crowd. I've heard anecdotes that there's a good chance for resistance to even the assembly of the infantry in that segment of the market.

They did a surprising amount of assembly ahead of time. The AT-ST head, for example, is obviously a 12ish piece sprue and comes completely assembled. The speeder bikes too have some parts already done. Not that that matters to people that panic at the sight of super glue, but just something that surprised me when I was putting it together.

 LunarSol wrote:

 Pugnacious_Cee wrote:

I will concede that they look considerably better in person, but I still really can't understand why these models are getting such hate.

A lot of FFGs promo material doesn't have the best paint jobs and for whatever reason makes them look a lot shorter than they are in person. From the pictures I've seen I was expecting something squatty like the Walking Dead minis. In person they stand out better, they're taller and feel better proportioned and the faces feel like there's better detail to work with. I have been finding more and more that people are often fooled by exceptional paint jobs or blown up renders and the FFG pictures definitely aren't pulling that trick.

That said, they're not GREAT by any means. They are the newer PVC that's harder and holds detail better than the soft stuff we saw at the dawn of Kickstarter, but they're still PVC for the most part. They're easy to work with though and look properly iconic once you get some paint on them and that makes the whole thing more exciting than it would be otherwise. It's also worth noting that the larger stuff is made in a nicer styrene. It's done thicker than GW or Wyrd and feels closer to PP's stuff, but it means stuff like the AT-ST is sporting nice sharp lines and the speeder bikes are pretty spot on perfect.

Anyway, overall I'm happy with my purchase, but a lot of that is because the game itself is fun. The models are good enough and I was pretty happy with what I was able to pull out of this guy:

Spoiler:

Well done on that paint job. Captures it brilliantly.

My only gripe with the model (not your efforts) is the usual FFG 'droop' on the lightsaber. It's like watching Spaceballs.

The droop is easily countered by just dipping it in hot water for a few seconds. The assembly guide even says as much. In the case of both sabers from the core set mine straightened right out on their own in the hot water with no need to fiddle. PVC isn't the best medium but this is some of the better PVC I've dealt with.

I also really like the scale and I feel like the detail is exactly where it needs to be and channels the source material perfectly. I like that the minis don't have to be overburdened with skulls, scrollwork, sculpted smoke like Warhammer stuff nor straps, buckles, bags, etc like Infinity stuff. That isn't a dig on those visual styles as I play and paint those games as well.

I painted up my Vader in about 2 hours of the most fun, least stressful painting I've had in the last 27 years of painting minis:


Did any news or previews come out of Adepticon for Legion or are we still too close to the initial release? I'd really love to hear if they intend to release minis for other eras in the future. I want some First Order stormtroopers!

JimmyWolf87 wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 Pugnacious_Cee wrote:

I will concede that they look considerably better in person, but I still really can't understand why these models are getting such hate.

A lot of FFGs promo material doesn't have the best paint jobs and for whatever reason makes them look a lot shorter than they are in person. From the pictures I've seen I was expecting something squatty like the Walking Dead minis. In person they stand out better, they're taller and feel better proportioned and the faces feel like there's better detail to work with. I have been finding more and more that people are often fooled by exceptional paint jobs or blown up renders and the FFG pictures definitely aren't pulling that trick.

That said, they're not GREAT by any means. They are the newer PVC that's harder and holds detail better than the soft stuff we saw at the dawn of Kickstarter, but they're still PVC for the most part. They're easy to work with though and look properly iconic once you get some paint on them and that makes the whole thing more exciting than it would be otherwise. It's also worth noting that the larger stuff is made in a nicer styrene. It's done thicker than GW or Wyrd and feels closer to PP's stuff, but it means stuff like the AT-ST is sporting nice sharp lines and the speeder bikes are pretty spot on perfect.

Anyway, overall I'm happy with my purchase, but a lot of that is because the game itself is fun. The models are good enough and I was pretty happy with what I was able to pull out of this guy:

Spoiler:

Well done on that paint job. Captures it brilliantly.

My only gripe with the model (not your efforts) is the usual FFG 'droop' on the lightsaber. It's like watching Spaceballs.

Thanks! Definitely could have straightened the saber but in person I find it only really noticeable from certain angles and I rushed him a bit to make sure I got him primed while the weather was still permitting.

Miniature quality aside, has anyone actually played the game yet? It came out a while ago, but I have yet to see anybody say whether the game itself is worth playing. I've only seen reviews from board gamers, and even those weren't exactly overwhelmed with excitement.

I'd argue that they're right where they need to be for detail vs ease of use. Remember, there's going to be a lot of new people that have never touched a model before, just because of the Star Wars brand. The figures assemble very quickly and have plenty of deep, relatively sharp detail for the material. I bought heavily into Deadzone KS, and this PVC is miles ahead of that. The style and scale is a fair bit cartoony, maybe that's where the complaints are coming from?

That stinks some people aren't happy, but I'm glad I'm not one of them. I spent my weekend building and painting my core set and like the models enough I already ordered a second core set. I'm perfectly content with the level of detail vs the time expenditure to get them on table.

There's an online list builder that has the cards scanned already, so I'll likely just print out the cards and use my WotC AT-STs and snowspeeders, so a complete game for 2 players for $140. And it's FREAKING STAR WARS! I don't feel like that aspect is mentioned enough


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sqorgar wrote:
Miniature quality aside, has anyone actually played the game yet? It came out a while ago, but I have yet to see anybody say whether the game itself is worth playing. I've only seen reviews from board gamers, and even those weren't exactly overwhelmed with excitement.

there's been a few people that mentioned playing it just a few posts ago and said they enjoyed it. My FLGS was completely sold out by the time I stopped in yesterday, but there were two of the 40k players doing a single core set game and after they finished they both went up to the counter and ordered enough for a full army, if that's any indicator.

 Sqorgar wrote:
Miniature quality aside, has anyone actually played the game yet? It came out a while ago, but I have yet to see anybody say whether the game itself is worth playing. I've only seen reviews from board gamers, and even those weren't exactly overwhelmed with excitement.

It came out Thurs.

That said, a lot of people have played it because demo copies went out a couple weeks ago. I personally was very on the fence until I played the demo. The gameplay sold me on it more than the models (I actually kind of shy away from painting licensed models for fear of not getting the colors right).

My first impression of the game was that it was basically someone's personal "if I made 40k this is how I'd fix it" game. Alternating activations because those are popular but otherwise just move, roll to hit, armor save, standard stuff. What sold me on the game was the suppression system. It works on a couple levels. When you shoot at something, they are likely to lose an action when they activate but they also gain cover and become harder to kill. What this does in practice is break up the value in focus firing things off the table and makes it more worthwhile to spread damage around, both because attacking causes a debuff and because there's less value in attacking something with the cover bonus. It breaks up a lot of the usual decisions in alternating activations, as sometimes its best to let a wounded unit die to activate a unit before its suppressed or attacking something you can't kill just because doing so will likely prevent it from getting to where it needs to go.

The other surprising aspect of this is just how easy it is to make units flee. Courage stats on units are super low, but they can use their commander's while in range. This in a lot of ways creates something that feels similar to how Warmachine works, with units needing to stay within your leader's control and even a bit of an assassination system, where you can kill the commander to make units break and flee.

The game certainly needs more variety, but the built in scenario system is better than a lot of games I've played out of the box and upgrades feel better designed than past FFG games I've played. I'm regularly surprised at how often I find myself wishing I had taken an option I had dismissed initially. I don't love all the proprietary stuff, but its pretty easy to play with a tape measure and only use the movement gauges for vehicles (hint: range 1 = 6", move 1 = 4", move 2 = 6", move 3 = 8"). I'll probably switch to tape measure pretty quickly. How the game grows will certainly matter, but right now the game is fun, people are excited and even with the limited selection, armies feel pretty cool and iconic. Regardless of where the game ends up, I'm happy with what I got and what I'm playing and hoping FFG can keep the ball rolling on this one for a while.