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 Sqorgar wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:
The delaque bits look great, as does most of the art. I like those jester looking people the most. It looks like they have plenty of room to see to it that the game has a bright future. But i'm most interested in more plastic kits, especially if the implication is all the gangs get a second sprue (which I wish they had done in the first place).

I'm not really sure how Specialist Games gets to do plastic sprues, but it appears they are rather limited in what and when they can do it. It could be that a second sprue per gang would've just ended up delaying the release of the gangs even more, and it was already an excruciating wait as it was.

Personally, I'm hoping GW's production expansion will give Specialist Games more slots in the schedule. Necromunda, especially, is hamstrung by a stupidly slow rollout and the availability (and price) of ForgeWorld expansions - but they'd probably just give the slots to AT.

Yes they can't do everything at same time. And hey GW wants releases steadily. Kit sells most of it lifetime sales in few months so basically they frontload necromunda to have everything at front they would have no income from necromunda for a long time. They want steady income so steady releases.

Rather funny. If they don't release new kits they get accused of no support. They release new kits and people say they should have been put out right away?-)

AT players could say release all warlord weapons and titans in release as well.

 Flashman wrote:

 Grot 6 wrote:

Great Job, GW. You did a great job, but at the same time, I'm having a hard time keeping motivated because you are just doing to much busy-body stuff before you get the ground floor finished. It's like building a house, and worrying about a garden before you even have the roof on the house.

I dunno, the 6 main Houses are out now. The core rule sets are complete.

For me, anything else that comes out is a bonus.

We need a proper campaign. And juves need fixing, instead of additional juve and champion types.

The Delaque heads & weapons look great. Kinda wish there were more than 3 female heads but what the hell. Love the variety of weapons. Now cant wait until whatever the "pet" is going to be.

I almost crapped my pants when I saw Ragnir. Glad to see my forgotten Squats aren't so forgotten at all(at least GW's memory).

tneva82 wrote:
Yes they can't do everything at same time. And hey GW wants releases steadily. Kit sells most of it lifetime sales in few months so basically they frontload necromunda to have everything at front they would have no income from necromunda for a long time. They want steady income so steady releases.

There's not a shortage of things they could release for Necromunda. Based just on the art released today, they could support Necromunda as a full time game system with monthly releases for YEARS. And then you've got the reliance on ForgeWorld for fundamental game elements. Resin heads and weapons should push players towards ForgeWorld, but it is pushing players away from Necromunda. If they could've released just one new sprue a month, even just upgrade sprues, they'd easily sell it, and the game would've sold a lot better, the players would be a lot happier, and it would be a lot more popular right now.

Rather funny. If they don't release new kits they get accused of no support. They release new kits and people say they should have been put out right away?-)

The problem is that the game has largely felt incomplete. You'd read about hired guns that don't have models. Or you'd want a gang that wouldn't be released for a year that still lacks juvie models and most of the guns in the book. I think people are fine with waiting on expansions, but less fine about waiting on things they consider the game incomplete without. I'd say 9 out of 10 people saw the slow release of models and said they'd wait and check out the game once all the gangs were released.

tneva82 wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:
The delaque bits look great, as does most of the art. I like those jester looking people the most. It looks like they have plenty of room to see to it that the game has a bright future. But i'm most interested in more plastic kits, especially if the implication is all the gangs get a second sprue (which I wish they had done in the first place).

I'm not really sure how Specialist Games gets to do plastic sprues, but it appears they are rather limited in what and when they can do it. It could be that a second sprue per gang would've just ended up delaying the release of the gangs even more, and it was already an excruciating wait as it was.

Personally, I'm hoping GW's production expansion will give Specialist Games more slots in the schedule. Necromunda, especially, is hamstrung by a stupidly slow rollout and the availability (and price) of ForgeWorld expansions - but they'd probably just give the slots to AT.

Yes they can't do everything at same time. And hey GW wants releases steadily. Kit sells most of it lifetime sales in few months so basically they frontload necromunda to have everything at front they would have no income from necromunda for a long time. They want steady income so steady releases.

Rather funny. If they don't release new kits they get accused of no support. They release new kits and people say they should have been put out right away?-)

AT players could say release all warlord weapons and titans in release as well.

What's funny is that the thing you find funny is in no way contradictory

The complain is that some critical elements of the game weren't available for a long time (and some still ain't). Nobody was asking for all expansions and new gangs to be available at the birth of the game

Danny76 wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Then we'd have three gangs released with two sprues each, and three gangs still to be released. This way's better.

I think he means both released at the same time..

Not two releases covering each gang, that’d take ages..

 Sqorgar wrote:
If they could've released just one new sprue a month, even just upgrade sprues, they'd easily sell it

Well, no point wishing for things that would never have happened. We got one plastic sprue every quarter because that's what they had the sculpting capacity available for. Two sprues per gang? That'll take twice as long.

 Sqorgar wrote:

The problem is that the game has largely felt incomplete. You'd read about hired guns that don't have models. Or you'd want a gang that wouldn't be released for a year that still lacks juvie models and most of the guns in the book. I think people are fine with waiting on expansions, but less fine about waiting on things they consider the game incomplete without. I'd say 9 out of 10 people saw the slow release of models and said they'd wait and check out the game once all the gangs were released.

There are Juve models, just as there are Leader and Champion models - you build the plastic kits appropriately. I don't think the old idea, that juves are children, applies any more. The weekender seminar mentioned "juve prospects", which might be that idea - people fresh from the underhive settlements looking to join a gang. There might be models for those down the line.

As for hired guns, since the popular opinion is that they're not worth the credits, I don't think the lack of models for those put anyone off.

While upgrade sprues would be gold for some (including me), GW has done them often enough that they will have got data on how well they sell, and how well units with added upgrade sprues sell compared to the upgrade free versions

the fact that they don't offer more of them pretty much confirms that they don't make enough financial sense to do more (even allowing for extra sales if they packaged them up and offered them for retail instead of direct only)

folk like us who congregate on Dakka are just too small a part of the buying public

The reason they do so many bounty hunters, hangers-on, brutes, etc is because it’s easy as pie to crank out single sculpts for resin casting. And people love them. Free money! As opposed to doing entirely new gangs in plastic which is orders of magnitude harder for them. From what I remember they also got basically free reign to do as many single character sculpts as they want because the first few bounty hunters sold like hotcakes, way above expectations.

Anyhoo... what's our interpretation of this slide.

The new set up of a House gang or is it how Guilds integrate into the game? (or both)

My thinking for Guilds is that you have a small number of Guild personnel who replace normal leaders and they hire some gang members from the main Houses to make up the "gang"

 Thargrim wrote:
The delaque bits look great, as does most of the art. I like those jester looking people the most. It looks like they have plenty of room to see to it that the game has a bright future. But i'm most interested in more plastic kits, especially if the implication is all the gangs get a second sprue (which I wish they had done in the first place).

Agreed on the jesters. Maybe they step a bit too much on the harlquin theme, but I'd really like to see a plastic gang of them

 Mymearan wrote:
The reason they do so many bounty hunters, hangers-on, brutes, etc is because it’s easy as pie to crank out single sculpts for resin casting. And people love them. Free money! As opposed to doing entirely new gangs in plastic which is orders of magnitude harder for them. From what I remember they also got basically free reign to do as many single character sculpts as they want because the first few bounty hunters sold like hotcakes, way above expectations.

Yeah, but that may change with all the variety we got now. I got 8 bounty hunters / hive scum painted up so far. But only ever played with one of them. The beastman, first one to be released. Because in the start, Necromunda was extremely weak on diversity. We only had 2 gangs, no weapon options to speak of and a campaign so bad it was aborted without even a notice. I think most people who was eager for Necromunda 1 year back bought everything, and that only included the escher box, goliath box and that beastman.

 Flashman wrote:

 Grot 6 wrote:

Great Job, GW. You did a great job, but at the same time, I'm having a hard time keeping motivated because you are just doing to much busy-body stuff before you get the ground floor finished. It's like building a house, and worrying about a garden before you even have the roof on the house.

I dunno, the 6 main Houses are out now. The core rule sets are complete.

For me, anything else that comes out is a bonus.

Bingo.

As of now this version of Necromunda is deeper, richer, crunchier, more complex , more diverse and more cohesive than the original version was at any point. And we wrung, what, 25 years out of the original?

 AndrewGPaul wrote:


There are Juve models, just as there are Leader and Champion models - you build the plastic kits appropriately. I don't think the old idea, that juves are children, applies any more. The weekender seminar mentioned "juve prospects", which might be that idea - people fresh from the underhive settlements looking to join a gang. There might be models for those down the line.

As for hired guns, since the popular opinion is that they're not worth the credits, I don't think the lack of models for those put anyone off.

Yeah, it sure seems like people are arguing from a fundamentally dishonest/misleading position when they talk about how "essential things are still not available" or whatever.

Most people don't want to have or use those things. And anyone who does want them has access to an abundance of material to solve the problem themselves.

Classic Necromunda never released a Van Saar model with a plasmagun. I had to make my own. Was classic Necromunda "unfinished" this whole time?

Vorian wrote:
Forgeworld should be pretty simple in the US now.

They've been taking on plenty of sculptors for the specialist games, so worries about seeing stuff sound a bit misplaced. They need things for these guys to get on with.

A second round of plastics for the main gangs sounds like a good thing for the second year to me.

FW is pretty simple in the United States, simply overpriced with a 30 percent price rise when they switched to their own conversion rate. They can keep it for those prices. Once they switched over they made the choice of whether or not to buy knock offs pretty simple. I used to get all my stuff from FW before they switched and now when it is actually affordable with the pound taking a heafty dive they screw us. Makes other options a lot more viable.

I got in on Necromunda early in 2018 so i had to go back and buy GW1 and GW2 I think GW3 was just coming out. Either way having known they would just combine and simplify the rules and gangs into two books I would have waited. There seems to be more a benefit to wait with Necromunda and I am sure that those who waited until now are so happy they didn't throw away an extra $200 in books.

 Flashman wrote:
Wasn't aware that Forgeworld was a bum pain for people ordering from outside the UK. That's a shame.

Well they basically doubled their prices overnight for anyone in Oz, NZ, Japan and so on. So yeah, kind of a pain.

 aka_mythos wrote:
Their presentation last year seem to make it pretty apparent that they're focused on spiraling up and out of the under hives.

And, as others have said, this basically amounts to working on the garden before they've finished building the house.

The "Early Access" method in which Newcromunda was birthed unto the world wasn't especially popular with a lot of people. Moving onto new fields of battle without completing the first part is like what WB did with Arkham Knight, throwing their hands up in the air and giving up on patching the bugs in the game so they could go and make DLC.

Racerguy180 wrote:
The Delaque heads & weapons look great. Kinda wish there were more than 3 female heads but what the hell. Love the variety of weapons.

Really? You call that a variety? Delaque get a single heavy weapon choice and their armoury all but invalidates all the previous (real) Delaque miniatures. We get the same heavy weapon in both weapon packs, and the weapon - a heavy flamer - is grossly overpriced in Newcromunda (as are all flamers).

Give me back my mother fething Heavy Stubber! And if you won't let me have a Lascannon, then call it a 'Mining Laser' and let me use the one GSCs get!

I'm noting the words "Guild Criminal Enterprise" in that top box. Everything below that is standard gang stuff.

Normal Guilders activities are non-criminal enterprises (mostly ) Looks like these guys might hire a gang for some seriously criminal stuff like raiding Guilder caravans or the between Hive caravans. Could be the beginnings of the set up for outlawed gangs? Hopefully they are setting a full social structure with room for LOTS of factions on both sides of the law. The listing of Narco Lords, Fallen Houses, Psy-Syndica, Cold Traders, Imperial Imposters and Rogue Factoria, which are all criminal enterprises, seems to be heading in this direction.

There was also a slide titled "The Great Web Of Necromunda" with a subtitle of "Guild Allies". I guess Guild Allies can be criminal or not, but will give some kind of bonus to the gang.

T

 Flashman wrote:
Anyhoo... what's our interpretation of this slide.

The new set up of a House gang or is it how Guilds integrate into the game? (or both)

My thinking for Guilds is that you have a small number of Guild personnel who replace normal leaders and they hire some gang members from the main Houses to make up the "gang"

 Altruizine wrote:
Yeah, it sure seems like people are arguing from a fundamentally dishonest/misleading position when they talk about how "essential things are still not available" or whatever.

It's not dishonest to say that the game still doesn't have Juve miniatures.

 Altruizine wrote:
Classic Necromunda never released a Van Saar model with a plasmagun. I had to make my own. Was classic Necromunda "unfinished" this whole time?

Well... yeah. Just like the old Cadians never got a Grenade Launcher, and the old Mordians never got a Plasma Gun. Their lines were incomplete. We just dealt with it, sure, but it's the truth.

timd wrote:
I'm noting the words "Guild Criminal Enterprise" in that top box. Everything below that is standard gang stuff.

I interpreted that as 'Alliance' categories (looks like Alliance is in bold maybe...). Suggesting that a gang would be funded/directed by/allied with one of the three types- Nobles, Criminal Groups, or a Guild.

In the Guilder fluff from the Core Rulebook (p26), it suggests that they wander the Underhive as individuals rather than in a group, hiring protection where necessary.

"In the Badzones, Guilders often hire gang fighters to protect them from outlaws and mutants."

This seems to suggest that the Guilder stuff won't be a gang per se, but individual miniatures. This would fit the non-plastic release model we've seen for Necromunda thus far. They would then be supported by gang members of your choosing.

This is my interpretation anyway.

EDIT - The fluff also places great emphasis that Guilders don't own territory/property, so how they would work in a campaign is anyone's guess.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:
Yeah, it sure seems like people are arguing from a fundamentally dishonest/misleading position when they talk about how "essential things are still not available" or whatever.

It's not dishonest to say that the game still doesn't have Juve miniatures.

 Altruizine wrote:
Classic Necromunda never released a Van Saar model with a plasmagun. I had to make my own. Was classic Necromunda "unfinished" this whole time?

Well... yeah. Just like the old Cadians never got a Grenade Launcher, and the old Mordians never got a Plasma Gun. Their lines were incomplete. We just dealt with it, sure, but it's the truth.

exactly

Saying you "can convert it" is on no way a good counterargument (even if converting is not that big of a deal)

Maybe there's a reluctance to release 'child soldiers' on GWs part; the blowback from the Cawdor character was fairly extreme, and it by and large, its influences were not that blatant.

I can easily see people condemning GW for the same reasons, despite them not truly being 'children.'

Awesome news... great ideas.. nice models so far... hats off. The paint job on those rats is embarrassing though. Also... Spyrers?? Muties??

FTL

From Garro




Automatically Appended Next Post:

from Garros Facebook

Delaque weapons on the minis

Is that an infra sight attached to the silenced stub pistol on this mini from left (and hand flamer on model next to it)?

Man, the two-handed weapons really illustrate just how utterly ludicrous the Delaque pistols are.

The Van Saar pistols are pretty stupidly big too. Especially the subcarbines where the pistol back end is not substantially smaller than the rifle stock version.

The real problem is that all weapons in 40k and adjacent settings are massively oversized, even bolters. It’s a trade off to make the details visible across the table, that’s all. Holstered weapons tend to be more realistic, though not always. Of course that could just mean the Imperium has been using folding weapons tech a la Mass Effect and Continuum etc. this whole time but no-one bothered to mention it.

 Dr Mathias wrote:

timd wrote:
I'm noting the words "Guild Criminal Enterprise" in that top box. Everything below that is standard gang stuff.

I interpreted that as 'Alliance' categories (looks like Alliance is in bold maybe...). Suggesting that a gang would be funded/directed by/allied with one of the three types- Nobles, Criminal Groups, or a Guild.

From a post on FB Necrumunda 2017:

James Drummond: "From the seminar today the twins arnt from a fallen house but kinda got kicked out. There's going to be 6 guilds and 6 crime factions which includes fallen house/fake house, drugs runners, smugglers etc. The really good bit was the talk of battles outside hive primas us ash wastes eta"

T

If I was writing them I'd have them as a double edged sword.

They hire gangs as guards as they go about their business (maybe some custom missions) and they have some reasonable self defense abilities but expect not to use them.

You can add them to your gang for a nominal cost (representing, I dunno, the bribes you paid to market yourself to get their attention), and earn a bodyguard bonus for every mission you bring them on (with an extra bonus if they never fire a shot or get into combat).

But if they get captured or killed... you're in serious trouble.

tneva82 wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Thargrim wrote:
The delaque bits look great, as does most of the art. I like those jester looking people the most. It looks like they have plenty of room to see to it that the game has a bright future. But i'm most interested in more plastic kits, especially if the implication is all the gangs get a second sprue (which I wish they had done in the first place).

I'm not really sure how Specialist Games gets to do plastic sprues, but it appears they are rather limited in what and when they can do it. It could be that a second sprue per gang would've just ended up delaying the release of the gangs even more, and it was already an excruciating wait as it was.

Personally, I'm hoping GW's production expansion will give Specialist Games more slots in the schedule. Necromunda, especially, is hamstrung by a stupidly slow rollout and the availability (and price) of ForgeWorld expansions - but they'd probably just give the slots to AT.

Yes they can't do everything at same time. And hey GW wants releases steadily. Kit sells most of it lifetime sales in few months so basically they frontload necromunda to have everything at front they would have no income from necromunda for a long time. They want steady income so steady releases.

Rather funny. If they don't release new kits they get accused of no support. They release new kits and people say they should have been put out right away?-)

AT players could say release all warlord weapons and titans in release as well.

When they first announced Specialist games and started talking about getting to do plastics the game designers were consistently saying tha they got a dedicated machine. And I think the fact they were so specific about it being a singular machine that it is the case. It explains why we had a stretch of no plastic SG releases leading upto Titanicus and why it took some time after Titanicus’ release before we got Warhounds.