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 kendoka wrote:
... or they could release a dual purpose kit based on the *brilliant* Jes Goodwyn 2nd edition Adeptus Arbites - so we can build both real Arbites (for Necro, Kill Team, Blackstone and 40k) and local wannabes...

This would sell 100 X an Enforcer pack...

Lots of things would sell 100 times an Enforcer pack, but none of them are Enforcers, rather defeating the purpose of releasing Enforcers...

I get it, people want Arbites. I want Arbites. I don't really want them in Necromunda, and certainly not at the expense of an actual Necromunda-specific faction with, hopefully, its own unique and mental aesthetic.

In defense of the Fantatic Enforcers they were brilliant for their ability to swap weapons. Almost any model could take a 2 handed weapon or two 1 handed weapons. No need to sculpt bolter and shotgun dudes when any model could take either weapon.

And I've now painted enough of both to say they're on par, detail wise, with the Goodwyn ones.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
In defense of the Fantatic Enforcers they were brilliant for their ability to swap weapons. Almost any model could take a 2 handed weapon or two 1 handed weapons. No need to sculpt bolter and shotgun dudes when any model could take either weapon.

And I've now painted enough of both to say they're on par, detail wise, with the Goodwyn ones.

They look awkward but nonetheless, looking at them with your rose tinted glasses on you can't fail to notice they have extra guns, a cyber dog, and heavy stubbers (these were the three main selling points for me). Not a patch on the original 4 or so models, but as definitely as good those weird mohawk ones.
oh and they had riot shields too!

Yay! I'll have another reason to eventually build this totally not an arbites guy now.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Enforcers that look how Enforcers should

What does an Enforcer look like?

 Yodhrin wrote:
ie their own thing, rather than being a zero-effort rebranding of unreleased Arbites models(likely test sculpts considering they're...not brilliant). These are supposed to be the personal thugs of the planetary governor, they deserve something better than Arbites knockoffs.

And hey, given the way 40K is going, soon you'll be able to get actual plastic Arbites to use as totes-not-Arbites-honest-guv Enforcers if that's really your jam.

Lemme ask you this:

Do you think Enforcers are popular?

I personally think they've proven to be quite popular, given that people have been asking about them since Newcromunda came about and that they're the first of the non-core gangs to get a new release. If you agree and also think that Enforcers are popular, then let me follow up with this question:

Do you think Enforcers were popular because of or in spite of their existing miniatures?

I ask this because I believe Enforcers are very popular among Necromunda players, and I doubt there's a single one of them that would ever say "I love me some Enforcers... but I wish they looked completely different!".

 warboss wrote:
Yay! I'll have another reason to eventually build this totally not an arbites guy now.

Spoiler:

I hate you, I wanted to get that model so badly but alas.

I can't wait for the Enforcers to come out. I had a couple of squads of them and 2nd edition arbites in my WitchHunters army back in the day. I loved the sculpts they where nice chunky metal. I know a lot of people here hate metal figgies but I love metal. The detal looks so much better in metal then plastic IN MY OPINION. YMMV. Now if FW would get off of their duffs and give us a resin Enforcers gang my life would be complete.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

I ask this because I believe Enforcers are very popular among Necromunda players, and I doubt there's a single one of them that would ever say "I love me some Enforcers... but I wish they looked completely different!".

Well, they have pretty radically redesigned many of the Necromunda gangs, hell, they have even redesigned the Space Marines! All of these ended up looking much better than the older versions. So there is a good chance that the Enforcers will be improved by this redesign as well.

 Crimson wrote:
Well, they have pretty radically redesigned many of the Necromunda gangs, hell, they have even redesigned the Space Marines! All of these ended up looking much better than the older versions. So there is a good chance that the Enforcers will be improved by this redesign as well.

He said, subjectively. And the Necromunda redesigns aren't that radical. Escher, Orlocks, Goliaths and Cawdor still look like they did, just improved detail. Van Saar changed style that is recognisable but still different compared to the original. Delaques look great, but nothing like Delaques.

And what you said doesn't really address the point I was making either.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
He said, subjectively. And the Necromunda redesigns aren't that radical. Escher, Orlocks, Goliaths and Cawdor still look like they did, just improved detail. Van Saar changed style that is recognisable but still different compared to the original. Delaques look great, but nothing like Delaques.

And what you said doesn't really address the point I was making either.

Doesn't it? These other things got redesigned, and most people are fine with it. I wouldn't expect anything more radical with the Enforcers than what we're already seen. I'm sure they will have at least a passing resemblance to the old models, just like the other redesigned stuff has.

Also, Delaques look like Delaques because that's what the Delaques now look like!

Crossing my fingers. So far the only extreme change has been the inclusion of house Nosferaques. Clearly house Delaques fell to some purge worthy heracy ( blood cultists) and was not so subtly replaced by the new house Nosferaques who have yet to update the name change in the imperial data archives. Hopefully the enforcers will not go from "Judge Dredd" to "Chips" with sunglasses and tight pants.

There is this concept art from Blanche which is explicitly an Enforcer.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
There is this concept art from Blanche which is explicitly an Enforcer.

I would be well happy with something looking like that! Reminds me of a lot of the Goodwin Guard concept art too.

IF thats what they end up looking like they are gonna print money.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Lemme ask you this:

Do you think Enforcers are popular?

I personally think they've proven to be quite popular, given that people have been asking about them since Newcromunda came about and that they're the first of the non-core gangs to get a new release. If you agree and also think that Enforcers are popular, then let me follow up with this question:

Do you think Enforcers were popular because of or in spite of their existing miniatures?

I ask this because I believe Enforcers are very popular among Necromunda players, and I doubt there's a single one of them that would ever say "I love me some Enforcers... but I wish they looked completely different!".

I'd add that for most of us cops/SWAT/tacticool dudes are a much more powerful and relevant icon than, say, Roman Legions. Played a lot of cops and robbers as a kid, not so many games of Legionnaires and Gauls.

40k has always succeeded by taking iconic ideas (Tolkein Elves, Orcs, WWII grunts, Space Knights/Legionnaires/Vikings/Whatever, crazy steampunk dudes) and turning the cool up to 11. No reason to think Space Cops would be any less successful.

Carlovonsexron wrote:
IF thats what they end up looking like they are gonna print money.

Very much this. Want!

T

 Insurgency Walker wrote:
Crossing my fingers. So far the only extreme change has been the inclusion of house Nosferaques. Clearly house Delaques fell to some purge worthy heracy ( blood cultists) and was not so subtly replaced by the new house Nosferaques who have yet to update the name change in the imperial data archives. Hopefully the enforcers will not go from "Judge Dredd" to "Chips" with sunglasses and tight pants.

Oh no! Now I must have Enforcers with sunglasses and tight pants! That needs to be their Juve option.

 Brotherjanus wrote:

 Insurgency Walker wrote:
Crossing my fingers. So far the only extreme change has been the inclusion of house Nosferaques. Clearly house Delaques fell to some purge worthy heracy ( blood cultists) and was not so subtly replaced by the new house Nosferaques who have yet to update the name change in the imperial data archives. Hopefully the enforcers will not go from "Judge Dredd" to "Chips" with sunglasses and tight pants.

Oh no! Now I must have Enforcers with sunglasses and tight pants! That needs to be their Juve option.

Here ya go! https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0499554/mediaviewer/rm2204929024

T

Wow Yodhrin defending for GW to change something that is loved by many old fans because he wants it to catter to his subjetive and personal taste?

Thats something.


Also I doubt enforcers/arbiters will look like Judge Dredd. Maybe some small "easter eggs" but... with nuGW, how are they gonna release a faction that is SO just... another thing? That was 90's GW.

I badly hope they stick with the linear aesthetic from the previous arbites models... I LOVED the look of those guys... modern takes in line with those, I would break down and buy a box even though I haven't painted in like a year lol...

The Blanche piece does nothing for me. Too reminiscent of AM. Hoping they take their cues from the Arbites design wise. Some evolution or variation of that concept I could get behind.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:


I'd add that for most of us cops/SWAT/tacticool dudes are a much more powerful and relevant icon than, say, Roman Legions. Played a lot of cops and robbers as a kid, not so many games of Legionnaires and Gauls.

40k has always succeeded by taking iconic ideas (Tolkein Elves, Orcs, WWII grunts, Space Knights/Legionnaires/Vikings/Whatever, crazy steampunk dudes) and turning the cool up to 11. No reason to think Space Cops would be any less successful.

if you watch some proper riot control operations - footage of football riots is probably the best example to mention without falling foul of the forum rules - the tactics of the police vs rioters are very reminiscent of Roman legions; without the gladii, though.

The Armsmen from Kill Team Rogue trader are a possible point of inspiration, as are elements of the original Arbites models (the ones JWBS doesn't like), or even the original Arbites trooper depicted in the Rogue Trader rulebook.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Lemme ask you this:

Do you think Enforcers are popular?

I personally think they've proven to be quite popular, given that people have been asking about them since Newcromunda came about and that they're the first of the non-core gangs to get a new release. If you agree and also think that Enforcers are popular, then let me follow up with this question:

Do you think Enforcers were popular because of or in spite of their existing miniatures?

Because of the design, but in spite of the miniatures, which were mediocre. You can convert them to hold a pair of pistols, close combat weapons, etc, but anything other than a rifle held across the chest or maul and shield looked rather awkward, and the details looked ... crude, compared to the 1990s ones. I actually found the best conversion fodder was the 1990 RT model with the power maul; the arms were easily removed, the head could be repositioned and you could use the arms from the current style of Space Marines with the shoulder pads left off (as was the original intent in the concept art) to do whatever pose or armament you wanted.

I ask this because I believe Enforcers are very popular among Necromunda players, and I doubt there's a single one of them that would ever say "I love me some Enforcers... but I wish they looked completely different!".

Waves hands I want Arbites models, don't get me wrong. but I also want Enforcers, and I want the two do be different. In fact, I want Palatine enforcers, and Trazior Enforcers and ... all different. And Palatine Enforcers on the Eye of Selene in low-g, low-pressure gear.

Oh hell yeah. 40k cops? I'll buy a team of 40k cops. I've been kind of waiting for enforcers to come out to try necromunda.

I kinda hope they move away from the judge dredd look, which I think was arbites not enforcers anyways. I do like that blanche art though. And the clan icon they showed in the trailer, but man they gave us no hints as to what they will look like.

If they're intedned to be used as a gang for a player to use (rather than an Abriotator tool) hopefully they'll be more interesting to pay as a campaign gang than the Enforcers were in the previous edition. No trading post, no territory, reduced effect of lasting injuries. Not quite as dull as Spyrers, but close.

With the focus now back as a "House Helmawr gang", there's a bit more room for individuality.

 Galas wrote:

Also I doubt enforcers/arbiters will look like Judge Dredd. Maybe some small "easter eggs" but... with nuGW, how are they gonna release a faction that is SO just... another thing? That was 90's GW.

A lot of early Rogue Trader was reskinned or converted GW stuff, some early supplements were for both RT and the Judge Dredd RPG and some 2000AD artists worked on RT. Dredd is as much a part of 40k's DNA as Tolkien, Moorcock, Dune or Starship Troopers. In fact I'd say without the JD game and models there wouldn't be a 40k.

Fun fact, the first Arbites are just Judge Dredd models with some green stuff.

Currently available from Wargames Foundry...
https://www.wargamesfoundry.com/collections/ex-citadel-games-workshop-models/products/ba001-empirical-absolution-and-liquidation-squad

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
Enforcers that look how Enforcers should

What does an Enforcer look like?

 Yodhrin wrote:
ie their own thing, rather than being a zero-effort rebranding of unreleased Arbites models(likely test sculpts considering they're...not brilliant). These are supposed to be the personal thugs of the planetary governor, they deserve something better than Arbites knockoffs.

And hey, given the way 40K is going, soon you'll be able to get actual plastic Arbites to use as totes-not-Arbites-honest-guv Enforcers if that's really your jam.

Lemme ask you this:

Do you think Enforcers are popular?

I personally think they've proven to be quite popular, given that people have been asking about them since Newcromunda came about and that they're the first of the non-core gangs to get a new release. If you agree and also think that Enforcers are popular, then let me follow up with this question:

Do you think Enforcers were popular because of or in spite of their existing miniatures?

I ask this because I believe Enforcers are very popular among Necromunda players, and I doubt there's a single one of them that would ever say "I love me some Enforcers... but I wish they looked completely different!".

I think Arbites are popular, and that people who like Arbites bought into Enforcers because they were a knockoff of that aesthetic. I'm not sure I would call them "popular", in fact I'd go so far as to say the only less popular gang was probably Spyrers and for the same reasons; outside the hands of the Arbitrator/GM - if you had one - they break or ignore too many systems that the other gangs have to abide by and they can get very broken very easily.

Personally, I would rather that my and others' desire for Arbites be met by an actual Arbites release for 40K rather than (again) being fobbed-off with some knockoffs, and the Enforcers get the treatment they always deserved with a bespoke aesthetic.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Enforcers that don't look like Enforcers to go with my Delaques that don't look like Delaques.

Cool.

What would be cool would be the enforcers coming in with bald heads and trench coats, matching the old Delaques

Then you woild have enforcres that look like delaques to go with your delaqies that dont look like delaques... simples.

Ah, yes, Enforcers. The TFGs will swarm like moths to a flame.

I think eventually Enforcers and Arbites should both be in the game... however I think GW should attempt to reinvent Enforcers to make them more visually distinctive from the classic Arbites; I think Enforcers should look more distinctively like they come from Necromunda. There has been a decent amount of artwork for Enforcers... in RPGs, on novel covers, as concepts... etc... mostly for other worlds but most don't look like Arbites.

Enforcers are basically the Planetary Governor's gang and I think treating them more like that solves some the issues from playing in campaigns with them.

 FabricatorGeneralMike wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Yay! I'll have another reason to eventually build this totally not an arbites guy now.

Spoiler:

I hate you, I wanted to get that model so badly but alas.

Well you can get a slightly different, new version of that model. You can also get a totally not Olivia Thirlby in Dredd female officer, not to mention male and female squads and 3 different cyber dogs.