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If they make us pay for the caimpaign rules, thos probably means it will not be gakky streamlined ones.a la swa. That is pretty much my biggest concern with thks new version.

Just reread the product description and it says "extremely detailed campaign rules" so i guess we're safe


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Did anybody realised thst there is a rules summary sheet on the website???

Seems like overwatch is out

The hiding and overwatch may be in the extras supplement. They best be!

Maybe theyll be in the gang tactics cards!!!!

Again, the demo is clearly a quick ‘run and gun’ to show off the underlying mechanics.

The more technical stuff doesn’t really suit a fast paced demo designed to whet appetites.

The reference rule sheets on website doesn't have hiding and overwatch you know.

I think that gw spoke about overwatch. But I don't remember what they said about it. Maybe action card.

With IGOUGO, the need for Overwatch is all but removed. When it’s that style of activation, you can plan Overwatch style shots into your tactics. No need to perform them as an interrupt.

Take Cover sounds an awful lot like hiding. Make a half move then go pinned. Lying down screws with LoS, no?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
With IGOUGO, the need for Overwatch is all but removed. When it’s that style of activation, you can plan Overwatch style shots into your tactics. No need to perform them as an interrupt.

Take Cover sounds an awful lot like hiding. Make a half move then go pinned. Lying down screws with LoS, no?

You can recover from being pinned and shoot now too, so it's not like being pinned to hide is too big of a deal

Prone (pinned) models are -1 to be hit at long range too. So, yeah, quite close to hiding, if not quite.

 streetsamurai wrote:

 Souleater wrote:
I hope we will see female models included in the other houses.

I get Goliath being all male as an opposite to Escher's all female.

hopeully we won't, unless for a few specific gangs were they fit (maybe van saar, spyrer, ratskin and scavvies)

Hopefully we will. I can't see any reason at all why other gangs wouldn't include women.


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 Galas wrote:
The problem with mixed gendered gangs is that all of sudden you don't have ultra compatible and modular kits. Many parts won't be possible to use in the other gender models of the gang.

It wouldn't really be a problem if the boxes had a 50/50 split, or even a 70/30 split. As long as there are multiple male models and multiple female models there should be plenty of room for customization and part switching. Also, there's nothing stopping GW from adding an extra arm or three to the sprues. And of course, we already know there will be upgrade kits, which offer even more room for diversity.

You'd imagine Ratskins would at least given the prominence of the female Ratskin artwork.

And the Spyrers have always had females, so you'd imagine they'd be back again.

 Thargrim wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Geifer wrote:


Depends. Generally agreed, but then Dark Eldar exist and don't have that problem.

Only because the existing plastic DE kits slapped boobs on a male torso and called it a day. It kinda works because we're fine with Space Elves being a little androgynous and even then Hesperax blows every supposedly female DE model out of contention precisely because she doesn't have to contend with limitations of a multipart kit mixing genders.

I want female Van Saar and Delaque and Orlocks, but I think I'd rather have good models over varied ones, so here's hoping GW doesn't try to force too much modular design if the deign to make a mixed gender gang in the future.

Plus eldar by nature are already more slender sculpt wise. The Escher models are more muscular and thick by comparison. I definitely agree i'd rather the models be good than pander to male/female variety ratios or something. I'm more worried GW will leave out or redesign the redemtionists or more blanche esque gothic/medieval gangs too much. I really like the classic medieval fanatic wacko in space with a gun kind of thing. It's important each gang be characterful and unique, and not simply bland.

Eldar I think work because the more androgynous space elf physique is coupled with a bulky chest plate (especially from the back) that is gender neutral. Lelith doesn't have that, so she sticks out next to other Dark Eldar.

The reason I think this could work better for Necromunda gangers is that Dark Eldar modular kits are, as said, made by sticking boobs on a torso and an otherwise androgynous design. This is likely not an issue with Necromunda (I haven't watch the how to build videos yet) as torsos and legs are not interchangeable, so the difference is in the arms. It could be possible to design generic arms without compromising much to fit both male and female bodies, and of course there's the other option of having male and female arms specific to to their respective bodies with the interchangeable parts being generic hands and weapons.

The biggest issue I see isn't actually the females but the male arms because of the heroic proportions. GW has a thing for super buff builds, at least on bare arms (see their history of Fantasy marauders, also Catachans). Sleeveless humans usually look heavily muscled and you would see a significant size difference between males and females hat you wouldn't get on more realistically sculpted 32mm models. Compare that to the one size fits all sleeves of Delaque gangers. There really shouldn't be an issue there.

I agree though that to me, retaining their style is much more important than having a mixed gender gang. Not the least because I don't play at a GW store and can use 3rd party models to supplement the official one if I feel like it. Also, Orlock is my house of choice and they are very generic.


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 jake wrote:

 Galas wrote:
The problem with mixed gendered gangs is that all of sudden you don't have ultra compatible and modular kits. Many parts won't be possible to use in the other gender models of the gang.

It wouldn't really be a problem if the boxes had a 50/50 split, or even a 70/30 split. As long as there are multiple male models and multiple female models there should be plenty of room for customization and part switching. Also, there's nothing stopping GW from adding an extra arm or three to the sprues. And of course, we already know there will be upgrade kits, which offer even more room for diversity.

Realistically you'd be looking at a 60/40 split as it looks like the gangs are designed around five unique bodies and the box doubling up on sprues to make ten models.

Yodhrin wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
COuld you name a few. Been looking for some and I never was able to find one

Yeah people keep claiming that, but I've yet to see any named much less argued.

I think the problem is quite simple, The Infinite - you didn't want to play Necromunda, so you're not happy with the game Necromunda. The clue would appear to be there in the name.

You know what they say about when you assume...

Neronoxx wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
COuld you name a few. Been looking for some and I never was able to find one

Yeah people keep claiming that, but I've yet to see any named much less argued.

I think the problem is quite simple, The Infinite - you didn't want to play Necromunda, so you're not happy with the game Necromunda. The clue would appear to be there in the name.

Yeah, I've seen nothing like necromunda in 2 decades. Gonna call that BS as it stands.
Necromunda is not the 'best' game, but no tabletop has told better stories than it.
Not even frostgrave comes close.

You need to branch out of purely mini gaming then, Shadows off Brimstone (either Hexcrawl or using the now-available expansions) runs an awesome campaign.

TheAuldGrump wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
COuld you name a few. Been looking for some and I never was able to find one

Yeah people keep claiming that, but I've yet to see any named much less argued.

I think the problem is quite simple, The Infinite - you didn't want to play Necromunda, so you're not happy with the game Necromunda. The clue would appear to be there in the name.

Yeah, I've seen nothing like necromunda in 2 decades. Gonna call that BS as it stands.
Necromunda is not the 'best' game, but no tabletop has told better stories than it.
Not even frostgrave comes close.

Decades later, the only tabletop game that I have enjoyed more than Necromunda has been Mordheim.

It all comes down to the campaign play, and Necromunda has a lot of flavor. Even Mordheim is not quite as tasty in that regard.

The Auld Grump

I seriously loved Mordheim, though its campaign benefitted from a "GM-like" influence (and the massive support it got to "fix" it in various publications)>

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Again, the demo is clearly a quick ‘run and gun’ to show off the underlying mechanics.

The more technical stuff doesn’t really suit a fast paced demo designed to whet appetites.

Fine, but not to BoW who feature full game vids of more complex systems on their site. The GW staffer did a poor job of pitching to his audience if there is more to the game than he showed.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:With IGOUGO, the need for Overwatch is all but removed. When it’s that style of activation, you can plan Overwatch style shots into your tactics. No need to perform them as an interrupt.

Take Cover sounds an awful lot like hiding. Make a half move then go pinned. Lying down screws with LoS, no?

Yeah...no.
I disagree entirely, IGOUGO with no interrupts, reactions, coordination etc. is simply unacceptable when compared with what else is available.

As it stands, the stuff left out had better be almost game changing to drag the quality up to a level I'd want to play more than a couple of times. The chances of the campaign being the main "game" with the tactical combat only being a mini-game (like XCom, where base management is the "game" and the tactical combat, air combat (first game) and map exploration (second game) are the mini-games) seems unlikely.

Not a big fan of the "DLC" model making it's way to tabletop. Looking forward to the miniatures, but I'll be using them with This Is Not a Test...

The more "in-depth" BoW videos are hosted at BoW's own venue, though. This video is simply them muscling into a demo table at a show - exactly the sort of place where you should be offering a quickie game to the punters because they've got other things to see and you've got other people to demo to. There'll be a queue of people waiting for these numpties with a camcorder to get out of the way; not the time to be running an hour-long game and explaining all the mechanics.

It's better to wait for folks who know what they're doing and have their hands on a review copy to properly dissect it all.

 The Infinite wrote:

Yodhrin wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
COuld you name a few. Been looking for some and I never was able to find one

Yeah people keep claiming that, but I've yet to see any named much less argued.

I think the problem is quite simple, The Infinite - you didn't want to play Necromunda, so you're not happy with the game Necromunda. The clue would appear to be there in the name.

You know what they say about when you assume...

That you're making the best guess you can from whatever information you have available? Yeah, that sounds about right. I mean if there's something more to your objection feel free to lay it out, but your argument seemed to pretty much boil down to "this is too much like Necromunda, I wanted a totally different 'modern' game".

You need to branch out of purely mini gaming then, Shadows off Brimstone (either Hexcrawl or using the now-available expansions) runs an awesome campaign.

Total War: Warhammer II has a great campaign as well so long as we're listing cool things that don't have any bearing on the discussion, but responding to "nobody has actually pointed out the superior alternative to Necromunda yet" with "well all you have to do is look in an entirely different genre of product" is farcical.

I seriously loved Mordheim, though its campaign benefitted from a "GM-like" influence (and the massive support it got to "fix" it in various publications)>

Mordheim didn't have a GM-like anything, it was a straight-up scenario-based "PvP" campaign game like Necromunda, and they both got extensive post-launch support initially from GW magazines and websites and eventually via the community. In fact your comment is really weird to me since in terms of the type of support each game received Mordheim seemed to get much more campaign and story content than rules fixes especially from the community side of things, while the Necromunda community seems to have put far more effort into revising the core rules - there's a full "Community Edition" rulebook and supplements available for Necromunda, no such thing exists for Mordheim which is still reliant on groups adopting "best practice" house rules to fix the issues(and no, that abominable horror show that occasionally pops up which is just a stitched-together compilation of every official and fan warband, scenario, and bit of gear with zero indication what's official or not or even what's been playtested or not is in no way equivalent to the NCE).

Yeah...no.
I disagree entirely, IGOUGO with no interrupts, reactions, coordination etc. is simply unacceptable when compared with what else is available.

First, it's not IGOUGO, that's what we had in the previous version of Necromunda and virtually every other GW game, it's Alternating Activation, and the entirely point of using that system is that you don't need to bog down the turn sequence with ten different interrupts and exceptions because your opportunity to act and react is built-in to the sequence. The "game" is in positioning your models to give you the most opportunities to react while also achieving your own goals. And you've still to point out exactly "what else is available" that's so much better - if you want to draw comparisons, you have to provide us with at least a clue to what it is your drawing them against.

Yeah, why are people calling this IGOUGO. It's not that at all.

It's an initiative/priority based system. It's more akin to combat in the 40K RPGs than traditional GW games.

And if they are going to have Hiding and Overwatch, I'd rather they be skills than permanent standard rules.

Oh, also, from the GW Community Site:

Finally, we’ve had loads of questions from Necromunda fans about when Delaque, Cawdor, Orlock and Van Saar will be joining Goliath and Escher in glorious plastic. We’re pleased to say that Necromunda: Underhive and Gang War will be but the first of many Necromunda releases. While Goliath and Escher will be available in their own boxes from day one, they’ll be followed by the four other Great Houses in 2018. If you’re eager to get stuck in straight away, make sure to like the Necromunda Facebook page for the latest news and updates about the game, and be sure to check out the Necromunda website.

So… Gang War isn’t DLC? There is a strong implication that one could buy the book and a gang and be done there. Maybe templates and dice would be an issue?

 Mr_Rose wrote:
So… Gang War isn’t DLC? There is a strong implication that one could buy the book and a gang and be done there. Maybe templates and dice would be an issue?

I fail to see a strong indication. Did I miss something? The book covers read "rule book" for the one in the boxed set and "gaming supplement" for Gang War. That to me suggests that you need both.

Pictures spoilered for size:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
So… Gang War isn’t DLC? There is a strong implication that one could buy the book and a gang and be done there. Maybe templates and dice would be an issue?

Definitely seems that way. But I doubt they won't start selling the dice and templates separately again. I hope so at least as the other gangs interest me far more.

On thee 18th of November, there will be two products for sale; the Necromunda Underhive box and the Gang War book.

The Underhive box will be required for everyone* It will have the core rules, the rules for recruiting a gang (i.e. how many points a ganger costs, weapons, etc) and the dice and templates. It'll be a complete single-purchase game in a box - you could happily buy that, assemble the two pre-designed gangs from the models included and play as many games as you like with just that.

Gang War adds rules for 3D terrain and the campaign rules (essentially, it's the old Sourcebook sold separately). It's not the complete rulebook.

*At the moment. The rulebook and dice and templates may be available separately. But there's been no word on if that will be the case. Taking Blood Bowl as an example, you can buy the rules digitally through the iOS app, but you still need to buy the box set to get the dice and templates.

Two gangs seems to be on their own from day 1 too

While Goliath and Escher will be available in their own boxes from day one, they’ll be followed by the four other Great Houses in 2018.

Well, I'm glad they narrowed down a timeframe for us at last...

Was always going to be thus. Bang out the Core box for Christmas, extra gangs in the New Year. Keep the cash flow trickling in.

I hear the Goosebumps pick your own adventure books have a great campaign.
Checkmate Necromunda!

 Yodhrin wrote:


That you're making the best guess you can from whatever information you have available? Yeah, that sounds about right. I mean if there's something more to your objection feel free to lay it out, but your argument seemed to pretty much boil down to "this is too much like Necromunda, I wanted a totally different 'modern' game".

What argument? You're literally reading my name and my dissatisfaction with the game system presented in the video and extrapolating down some seemingly random path.

I liked the two actions on activation (and the different action choices), I liked the addition of aiming as an action in place of movement, I liked the jam mechanic, I liked the different stats for the models rather than every house having the same base stats.
(mainly QOL changes/additions to the original system)

I didn't like that models couldn't react to being shot, or that seeing an enemy move/act in line of sight didn't enable any triggers/interrupts (though those may still be available), or that there were no conditional/delayed skills (again, thus far).
I didn't like the flat to hit stats in close combat (better suited to mass battle games rather than skirmish scale IMO), or that it resolved on charge order rather than being an actual contest (arguably one of the better mechanics 40K 2nd Ed ported to Necromunda).
I didn't like there was no seize/steal initiative mechanic (so far).
(all developments that have been successfully implemented over the past two decades in a variety of miniature games to great improvement over 1990's game design)

I'm in two minds as to whether I like the the cover template/ruler or not, on the one hand it simplifies cover mechanics somewhat, on the other it looks like complexity for its own sake rather than writing a solid ruleset.
I'm in two minds as to whether I like a stat card for each model, table space is always a premium and having to find space for a lot of supplementary cards instead of an app or print-out seems backwards.

I could go on, but you get the gist.

The game as presented appears incredibly basic and as I said, I hope the stuff left out actually enables player choice and brings about a lot more depth of play.

 Yodhrin wrote:

Total War: Warhammer II has a great campaign as well so long as we're listing cool things that don't have any bearing on the discussion, but responding to "nobody has actually pointed out the superior alternative to Necromunda yet" with "well all you have to do is look in an entirely different genre of product" is farcical.

Oh yeah a miniature game played on card tiles with extensive campaign and character advancement systems is entirely different to the new Necromunda, I see exactly what you're saying [/sarcasm]

 Yodhrin wrote:

Mordheim didn't have a GM-like anything, it was a straight-up scenario-based "PvP" campaign game like Necromunda, and they both got extensive post-launch support initially from GW magazines and websites and eventually via the community. In fact your comment is really weird to me since in terms of the type of support each game received Mordheim seemed to get much more campaign and story content than rules fixes especially from the community side of things, while the Necromunda community seems to have put far more effort into revising the core rules - there's a full "Community Edition" rulebook and supplements available for Necromunda, no such thing exists for Mordheim which is still reliant on groups adopting "best practice" house rules to fix the issues(and no, that abominable horror show that occasionally pops up which is just a stitched-together compilation of every official and fan warband, scenario, and bit of gear with zero indication what's official or not or even what's been playtested or not is in no way equivalent to the NCE).

I'm guessing from your flag that English isn't your native language so let me explain. I was saying that Mordheim was made even better when a player took up the mantle of the GM role and managed the campaign actively rather than everyone just playing the game as a "scenario-based "PvP"" system. The post launch support is the best thing Mordheim received, it took a solid enough game and made it a whole lot better.

 Yodhrin wrote:
First, it's not IGOUGO, that's what we had in the previous version of Necromunda and virtually every other GW game, it's Alternating Activation, and the entirely point of using that system is that you don't need to bog down the turn sequence with ten different interrupts and exceptions because your opportunity to act and react is built-in to the sequence. The "game" is in positioning your models to give you the most opportunities to react while also achieving your own goals. And you've still to point out exactly "what else is available" that's so much better - if you want to draw comparisons, you have to provide us with at least a clue to what it is your drawing them against.

That is a semantic argument at best; alternating activation just masks the major problems with an IGOUGO system, it doesn't actually address them inasmuch as hopes you don't notice them.

I'm waiting to see what else there is from this release, and will now certainly wait for reviews rather than take a chance on buying this game day one.

 The Infinite wrote:


That is a semantic argument at best; alternating activation just masks the major problems with an IGOUGO system, it doesn't actually address them inasmuch as hopes you don't notice them.

Ignoring the above statement which I simply cannot take seriously, you still haven't provided any examples of systems that are so clearly superior to the alternate activation with tactics card system Necromunda seems to be going for.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 The Infinite wrote:


That is a semantic argument at best; alternating activation just masks the major problems with an IGOUGO system, it doesn't actually address them inasmuch as hopes you don't notice them.

Ignoring the above statement which I simply cannot take seriously, you still haven't provided any examples of systems that are so clearly superior to the alternate activation with tactics card system Necromunda seems to be going for.

Guess same model needs to be moving like 5 times in a turn for game to be modern and respectable rules

 Groundh0g wrote:
Not a big fan of the "DLC" model making it's way to tabletop.

Well, you're about 40 years to late then. Tabletop gaming has been operating on a "DLC model" since the 80's.