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 TommyBoy13 wrote:
Is a Tyrannofex with acid spray in the drop pod dream of mine gone with the beta rules? I have been play testing this and it's remarkably effective. T8, weapon beasts,2d6 strength user ap-1, plus stinger slavo, with drop pod deathspitters is a huge pain in the ass. Both would soke up so much firepower while my cc elements move into place. Can't see this working a turn later. Thoughts?

It would be nice but AFAIK deepstrike counts as having means they don't get to weapon beast on the turn they enter.I think it needs somestuff coming in with it just to make sure it gets to do its thing, and then you've already spent a ton of points, so I dunno

It can still work. One of the main uses for acid spray tyrannofexes is killing flyers, who like to zoom into your deployment zone turn 1 and blow stuff up. You can still drop the ’Fex in your zone turn 1 to roast it.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 TommyBoy13 wrote:
Is a Tyrannofex with acid spray in the drop pod dream of mine gone with the beta rules? I have been play testing this and it's remarkably effective. T8, weapon beasts,2d6 strength user ap-1, plus stinger slavo, with drop pod deathspitters is a huge pain in the ass. Both would soke up so much firepower while my cc elements move into place. Can't see this working a turn later. Thoughts?

It would be nice but AFAIK deepstrike counts as having means they don't get to weapon beast on the turn they enter.I think it needs somestuff coming in with it just to make sure it gets to do its thing, and then you've already spent a ton of points, so I dunno

Your right for sure. Another aspect is of it is the old 'distraction Carnefex' idea. A decent amount of fire power has to be used to bring it down, this gives your GS's a decent amount of breathing space to do what they need to do. Also resilient to charges.

It can still work. One of the main uses for acid spray tyrannofexes is killing flyers, who like to zoom into your deployment zone turn 1 and blow stuff up. You can still drop the ’Fex in your zone turn 1 to roast it.

That's a great use!! Always forget about auto-hit and flyers!

 Sinful Hero wrote:

Unfortunately for Zoans, Hive Guard, and Venomthropes their minimum unit size is 3 now.

Ah, that's unfortunate. The Venomthrope isn't assembled yet, maybe I could swap out the arms and use it as a Neurothrope?

 Sinful Hero wrote:
I’d go with your Carnifexes, Tyrant, Broodlord, and Genestealers for sure. Warriors can be fun with Boneswords, Deathspitters, and Venom Cannons in my experience. The Prime nearby can help land those hits, but he’s a bit pricey for what he brings to a list.

Okay, thanks, I'll have a go at making a list out of those.

Is there any Hive Fleet that would work well with those units? I like the Hydra and Kronos warlord traits, but neither of them seem like a good fit in terms of their army-wide bonuses.

 Xenomancers wrote:


Typically I am shoving haruspex into opponents with swarmlord turn 1. Something most people will not realize until it's too late is this puppy blows up like a boss. auto 3 mortals to everything in range when you roll a 6 to explode (yeah you are going to want to reroll this every time). He will pay for himself on an explosion usually and he can also do some serious damage before that if you get lucky (why this thing hits on 4's...I have no freaking clue) Anyways - T8 is marginally helpful for this guy.

I've also been running Toxicrines (which are surprisingly awesome for me) I ran 3 last game. Same as Haruspex it's a great mortal wound generator. Except he excels in CC where the haruspex is kind of middling but has higher damage potential. He also shoots pretty well. He loses a wound and goes to t7 but is much cheaper too. Personally I think the Toxicrine is the best CC unit in the game for it's cost certainly in the nid codex anyways.

Harr harr, nice trolling!

About Shuppets cries for Genestealer nerfs -

 SHUPPET wrote:
I haven't played the new edition of Nids yet

I see... Well, get back to us then after a solid round of games against Eldar, Drukhari, Tau, AM gunlines, Nurgle hordes, etc, and let's see if you stll want to pluck out the teeth of Tyranid cc.

I agree with the rest of you, nerfing the viable cc units for Tyranids would only make sense if Tyranids were the only faction in the game.

 Badablack wrote:
I put chameleonic mutation on Tyrants and run them next to venom/malanthropes for something that never dies. The miasma cannon is nice to get around your degrading profile. The old one eye Talons in combination with the right trait are excellent for one-shotting nearly anything.

Would you take Miasma or Stanglethorn cannon? The Stranglethorn ignores invul and can tear through some good untis like daemons, drukhari, necron wraiths, bikers, etc...I keep going back and forth. Looking at deciding for a tourney which one to take.

I've been having some success with the relic heavy venom cannon.
Really like the auto hits within 8" for the overwatch. Has got me out of a few sticky situations. Also makes my flyrant even better at hunting fliers.

 vipoid wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

Unfortunately for Zoans, Hive Guard, and Venomthropes their minimum unit size is 3 now.

Ah, that's unfortunate. The Venomthrope isn't assembled yet, maybe I could swap out the arms and use it as a Neurothrope?

If your group doesn’t care about WYSIWYG just use your Zoanthrope- it’d be more similar in size. Venomthropes are in a good spot right now- you might be better off adding more to your list than converting it to something else.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
I’d go with your Carnifexes, Tyrant, Broodlord, and Genestealers for sure. Warriors can be fun with Boneswords, Deathspitters, and Venom Cannons in my experience. The Prime nearby can help land those hits, but he’s a bit pricey for what he brings to a list.

Okay, thanks, I'll have a go at making a list out of those.

Is there any Hive Fleet that would work well with those units? I like the Hydra and Kronos warlord traits, but neither of them seem like a good fit in terms of their army-wide bonuses.

Kraken is the best generalist Trait imo- helps you get your Nids where they need to be, plus Chameonlic Mutation(-1 to ranged Hits) is perfect for a Hive Tyrant. Kronos is good too if you play against quite a few psykers. Jormundgandr helps out a shooty list well, and anything that doesn’t fly or Advance. Don’t forget that separate detachments can have different traits, so you could put your tyrant, Broodlord, and Genestealers/hormagaunts in a Kraken detachment for better Advance rolls and chameleonic mutation, then Carnifexes, Neurothrope, and Termagants/Warriors in Jormungandr to better protect them.

Sneggy wrote:
I've been having some success with the relic heavy venom cannon.
Really like the auto hits within 8" for the overwatch. Has got me out of a few sticky situations. Also makes my flyrant even better at hunting fliers.

You are getting charged lol? Normally Im doing the charging.

as shocking as it may seem there are plenty of armies out there which enjoy charging just as much as we do. Not least the massive abundance of shield captains/regular custodes on jetbikes who love themselves a bit of flyrant skewering.

 SHUPPET wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

I have multiple armies and actively nerfing a well design CQC unit to mediocre levels is not something a game designer should aim to. It's like asking every shooting unit to be useless like a Tactical Space Marine or the equivalent Assault Space Marine in the other case. You always try to improve units to decent levels of usability, not the other way around (aka nerf them into the oblivion without a reason to do so)

Yeah there's definitely a middle ground between "so strong it pretty much invalidates every other cc unit in the dex" and "nerfed into oblivion". The measure of competence is being able to find it.

Geensteelers perform at the top level but they aren't overpowering other powerful armies so I wouldn't say they are a problem. Gaunts are much worse than other armies infantry but they are ultimately immune to morale so that makes them worth their points IMO. Warriors should probably have a 3+ save - that's about the only change I would make to Nid infantry.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

If your group doesn’t care about WYSIWYG just use your Zoanthrope- it’d be more similar in size.

That's true. However, it's one of the old metal ones and I just really hate the design.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Venomthropes are in a good spot right now- you might be better off adding more to your list than converting it to something else.

Ah, okay. I guess if I got the box of 3, I could turn 2 into Venomthropes and make the third into a proper Neurothrope. Might hold off on that, though. I'd like to play some test games before investing £40 into 3 models.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

Kraken is the best generalist Trait imo- helps you get your Nids where they need to be, plus Chameonlic Mutation(-1 to ranged Hits) is perfect for a Hive Tyrant. Kronos is good too if you play against quite a few psykers. Jormundgandr helps out a shooty list well, and anything that doesn’t fly or Advance. Don’t forget that separate detachments can have different traits, so you could put your tyrant, Broodlord, and Genestealers/hormagaunts in a Kraken detachment for better Advance rolls and chameleonic mutation, then Carnifexes, Neurothrope, and Termagants/Warriors in Jormungandr to better protect them.

Thanks, that's a great help.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

I have multiple armies and actively nerfing a well design CQC unit to mediocre levels is not something a game designer should aim to. It's like asking every shooting unit to be useless like a Tactical Space Marine or the equivalent Assault Space Marine in the other case. You always try to improve units to decent levels of usability, not the other way around (aka nerf them into the oblivion without a reason to do so)

Yeah there's definitely a middle ground between "so strong it pretty much invalidates every other cc unit in the dex" and "nerfed into oblivion". The measure of competence is being able to find it.

Geensteelers perform at the top level but they aren't overpowering other powerful armies so I wouldn't say they are a problem. Gaunts are much worse than other armies infantry but they are ultimately immune to morale so that makes them worth their points IMO. Warriors should probably have a 3+ save - that's about the only change I would make to Nid infantry.

Only if in synapse. I have had hormies charge outside synapse by mistake before. That sucked. I think if hormies had a 5+ then we would see more of them. Same with termies. That would put them in line with guardsmen.

Getting into wish listing though.

Overall all out troop choices are solid and each has its own niche.

 N.I.B. wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:


Typically I am shoving haruspex into opponents with swarmlord turn 1. Something most people will not realize until it's too late is this puppy blows up like a boss. auto 3 mortals to everything in range when you roll a 6 to explode (yeah you are going to want to reroll this every time). He will pay for himself on an explosion usually and he can also do some serious damage before that if you get lucky (why this thing hits on 4's...I have no freaking clue) Anyways - T8 is marginally helpful for this guy.

I've also been running Toxicrines (which are surprisingly awesome for me) I ran 3 last game. Same as Haruspex it's a great mortal wound generator. Except he excels in CC where the haruspex is kind of middling but has higher damage potential. He also shoots pretty well. He loses a wound and goes to t7 but is much cheaper too. Personally I think the Toxicrine is the best CC unit in the game for it's cost certainly in the nid codex anyways.

Harr harr, nice trolling!

NIB, if you talk about Haruspex and Toxicrene in regards of trolling, they have their uses. And seeing them so seldom makes them sometimes very great, because noone expects them.
The damage output of a Toxicrene in close combat is nothing to laught about, especially if its in combat with multiple models. Its more like a suicide bomber, but still durable. The only problem is to get it reliable into cc range. I tested them myself a couple of times, with a bit of dice luck they can lay out a lot of hurt on expensive units and screens. The closer the enemy comes, the better for you.

 geffthegoat wrote:
Some of the Hive Fleet choices seem kinda weird IMO.

Good points, I need to moving things around to take advantage of the Hive Fleets better. I like the Kronos Warlord for the Trait, but having the Tyrant be warlord gives up lots of easy target priority.

About the Hive Tyrant points. I knew the FAQ changed it, I complained about the FAQ changing it, but I forgot update my list building spreadsheet and got it wrong. Thanks for the catch, keeps me from being embarrassed bringing an illegal list to another event.

I think I'm going to have to drop the Hive Guard to keep the Tyrants. Maybe run a small unit of them, or put in a warriors squad for objective camping.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ultrapogo wrote:


Are you planning on putting anything in the Trygons?

No, I love the model and I'm just going for a smashy face list that lets me put the model on the table while I paint Genestealers.

 Dynas wrote:

 Badablack wrote:
I put chameleonic mutation on Tyrants and run them next to venom/malanthropes for something that never dies. The miasma cannon is nice to get around your degrading profile. The old one eye Talons in combination with the right trait are excellent for one-shotting nearly anything.

Would you take Miasma or Stanglethorn cannon? The Stranglethorn ignores invul and can tear through some good untis like daemons, drukhari, necron wraiths, bikers, etc...I keep going back and forth. Looking at deciding for a tourney which one to take.

I’d say the miasma cannon beats out the balethorn. Balethorn ignores invulns but it’s only -1 ap, which severely limits its usefulness against most targets. Youre also not limited to a Kronos Detachment.

 N.I.B. wrote:


About Shuppets cries for Genestealer nerfs -

 SHUPPET wrote:
I haven't played the new edition of Nids yet

I see... Well, get back to us then after a solid round of games against Eldar, Drukhari, Tau, AM gunlines, Nurgle hordes, etc, and let's see if you stll want to pluck out the teeth of Tyranid cc.

I agree with the rest of you, nerfing the viable cc units for Tyranids would only make sense if Tyranids were the only faction in the game.

You really went back to my post from way back in April, when we're just about to hit June now? I've been playing games throughout the week + multiple games on the weekend since. I've played against everything you listed except for Eldar. Which is also a matter of time as my Eldar opponent been out of town, but we'll get there. What sort of immature checkmate was this meant to be?

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Don't bother commenting on SHUPPET views, he clearly has no knowledge of the game

I have a decade of knowledge on the game. Aren't you the guy who recommended Genestealers back 6TH, and to use them with Swarmlord? And gets upset at people who took three or more of the same unit? Lol. You've been spamming these downright terrible opinions on here years now, but when you start attacking me just because you disagree with what I say, that's when I start chuckling. And insult from someone like you is probably more of a compliment.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

I have multiple armies and actively nerfing a well design CQC unit to mediocre levels is not something a game designer should aim to. It's like asking every shooting unit to be useless like a Tactical Space Marine or the equivalent Assault Space Marine in the other case. You always try to improve units to decent levels of usability, not the other way around (aka nerf them into the oblivion without a reason to do so)

Yeah there's definitely a middle ground between "so strong it pretty much invalidates every other cc unit in the dex" and "nerfed into oblivion". The measure of competence is being able to find it.

Geensteelers perform at the top level but they aren't overpowering other powerful armies so I wouldn't say they are a problem. Gaunts are much worse than other armies infantry but they are ultimately immune to morale so that makes them worth their points IMO. Warriors should probably have a 3+ save - that's about the only change I would make to Nid infantry.

A reasonable approach - but my problem is that Genestealers outclass the rest of the dex, and are unbalanced internally, and are also one of the strongest CC's units in the meta currently. What the people pointing outside of the dex at other OP things are missing, is that I would like points reductions to that too. I would like everything brought down to a sensible level, and with that, I think Genestealers are the offending unit in our dex.

Hi all,

I've posted 3 armies I'm considering using this weekend in a 1500pt tournament. I would love some Comments and advice on them if you would go to the army lists section. Thx

 SHUPPET wrote:

 N.I.B. wrote:


About Shuppets cries for Genestealer nerfs -

 SHUPPET wrote:
I haven't played the new edition of Nids yet

I see... Well, get back to us then after a solid round of games against Eldar, Drukhari, Tau, AM gunlines, Nurgle hordes, etc, and let's see if you stll want to pluck out the teeth of Tyranid cc.

I agree with the rest of you, nerfing the viable cc units for Tyranids would only make sense if Tyranids were the only faction in the game.

You really went back to my post from way back in April, when we're just about to hit June now? I've been playing games throughout the week + multiple games on the weekend since. I've played against everything you listed except for Eldar. Which is also a matter of time as my Eldar opponent been out of time, but we'll get there.

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Don't bother commenting on SHUPPET views, he clearly has no knowledge of the game

I have a decade of knowledge on the game. Aren't you the guy who recommended Genestealers back 6TH, and to use them with Swarmlord? And gets upset at people who took three or more of the same unit? Lol. You've been spamming these downright terrible opinions on here years now, but when you start attacking me just because you disagree with what I say, that's when I start chuckling. And insult from someone like you is probably more of a compliment.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

I have multiple armies and actively nerfing a well design CQC unit to mediocre levels is not something a game designer should aim to. It's like asking every shooting unit to be useless like a Tactical Space Marine or the equivalent Assault Space Marine in the other case. You always try to improve units to decent levels of usability, not the other way around (aka nerf them into the oblivion without a reason to do so)

Yeah there's definitely a middle ground between "so strong it pretty much invalidates every other cc unit in the dex" and "nerfed into oblivion". The measure of competence is being able to find it.

Geensteelers perform at the top level but they aren't overpowering other powerful armies so I wouldn't say they are a problem. Gaunts are much worse than other armies infantry but they are ultimately immune to morale so that makes them worth their points IMO. Warriors should probably have a 3+ save - that's about the only change I would make to Nid infantry.

A reasonable approach - but my problem is that Genestealers outclass the rest of the dex, and are unbalanced internally, and are also one of the strongest CC's units in the meta currently. What the people pointing outside of the dex at other OP things are missing, is that I would like points reductions to that too. I would like everything brought down to a sensible level, and with that, I think Genestealers are the offending unit in our dex.

I've never used Genestealers until their first "new" iteration in Genestealer Cult 7TH Codex, you can't even recognize people properly

KurtAngle2 wrote:


I've never used Genestealers until their first "new" iteration in Genestealer Cult 7TH Codex, you can't even recognize people properly

damn, so when you made this post here

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/601276.page#6954878

would that have been "you talking about something you have zero understanding of"?


I don't remember every post you've made but I definitely remember the ones you've made in response to me


lets call it a day, brother.

Can I ask how this list looks?

Kraken Battalion (+5CP):
Broodlord - 162
Neurothrope - 70 (Warlord: Adaptive Biology)
5 Genestealers w/ 1x Acid Maw - 60
5 Genestealers w/ 1x Acid Maw - 60
5 Genestealers w/ 1x Acid Maw - 60
5 Ripper Swarms - 55
Lictor - 45
Lictor - 45

Kraken Battalion (+5CP):
Hive Tyrant w/ Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Scything Talons, AG, TS, Chameleonic Mutation - 192
Tyranid Prime w/ Boneswords, Deathspitter, AG, TS - 112
3 Warriors w/ 3x Boneswords, 2x Deathspitter, 1x Venom Cannon, 3x AG - 99
3 Warriors w/ 3x Boneswords, 2x Deathspitter, 1x Venom Cannon, 3x AG - 99
3 Warriors w/ 3x Boneswords, 2x Deathspitter, 1x Venom Cannon, 3x AG - 99
20 Termagants - 80
Carnifex w/ Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Scything Talons, Enhanced Senses, Spore Cysts, AG - 131
Carnifex w/ Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Scything Talons, Enhanced Senses, Spore Cysts, AG - 131

1500pts (13CP)

 vipoid wrote:
Can I ask how this list looks?

Kraken Battalion (+5CP):
Broodlord - 162
Neurothrope - 70 (Warlord: Adaptive Biology)
5 Genestealers w/ 1x Acid Maw - 60
5 Genestealers w/ 1x Acid Maw - 60
5 Genestealers w/ 1x Acid Maw - 60
5 Ripper Swarms - 55
Lictor - 45
Lictor - 45

Kraken Battalion (+5CP):
Hive Tyrant w/ Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Scything Talons, AG, TS, Chameleonic Mutation - 192
Tyranid Prime w/ Boneswords, Deathspitter, AG, TS - 112
3 Warriors w/ 3x Boneswords, 2x Deathspitter, 1x Venom Cannon, 3x AG - 99
3 Warriors w/ 3x Boneswords, 2x Deathspitter, 1x Venom Cannon, 3x AG - 99
3 Warriors w/ 3x Boneswords, 2x Deathspitter, 1x Venom Cannon, 3x AG - 99
20 Termagants - 80
Carnifex w/ Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Scything Talons, Enhanced Senses, Spore Cysts, AG - 131
Carnifex w/ Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Scything Talons, Enhanced Senses, Spore Cysts, AG - 131

1500pts (13CP)

I know you’re kinda limited to models right now, but something you can do is run your Genestealers in one blob(they’ll hit much harder with the +1 Attack), and move the Termagants to that detachment to stay legal. Give your fexes 2x Devourers or Deathspitters instead of Scything Talons to take better advantage of Enhanced Senses.

 vipoid wrote:
Can I ask how this list looks?

Kraken Battalion (+5CP):
Broodlord - 162
Neurothrope - 70 (Warlord: Adaptive Biology)
5 Genestealers w/ 1x Acid Maw - 60
5 Genestealers w/ 1x Acid Maw - 60
5 Genestealers w/ 1x Acid Maw - 60
5 Ripper Swarms - 55
Lictor - 45
Lictor - 45

Kraken Battalion (+5CP):
Hive Tyrant w/ Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Scything Talons, AG, TS, Chameleonic Mutation - 192
Tyranid Prime w/ Boneswords, Deathspitter, AG, TS - 112
3 Warriors w/ 3x Boneswords, 2x Deathspitter, 1x Venom Cannon, 3x AG - 99
3 Warriors w/ 3x Boneswords, 2x Deathspitter, 1x Venom Cannon, 3x AG - 99
3 Warriors w/ 3x Boneswords, 2x Deathspitter, 1x Venom Cannon, 3x AG - 99
20 Termagants - 80
Carnifex w/ Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Scything Talons, Enhanced Senses, Spore Cysts, AG - 131
Carnifex w/ Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Scything Talons, Enhanced Senses, Spore Cysts, AG - 131

1500pts (13CP)

It's a strange build...I think if I ran a bunch of Warriors, I'd go Leviathan, maybe swap the Wing'rant into the Krakon? The MSU Stealers just look odd to me, why are you using them that way?

 vipoid wrote:
Can I ask how this list looks?

Kraken Battalion (+5CP):
Broodlord - 162
Neurothrope - 70 (Warlord: Adaptive Biology)
5 Genestealers w/ 1x Acid Maw - 60
5 Genestealers w/ 1x Acid Maw - 60
5 Genestealers w/ 1x Acid Maw - 60
5 Ripper Swarms - 55
Lictor - 45
Lictor - 45

Kraken Battalion (+5CP):
Hive Tyrant w/ Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Scything Talons, AG, TS, Chameleonic Mutation - 192
Tyranid Prime w/ Boneswords, Deathspitter, AG, TS - 112
3 Warriors w/ 3x Boneswords, 2x Deathspitter, 1x Venom Cannon, 3x AG - 99
3 Warriors w/ 3x Boneswords, 2x Deathspitter, 1x Venom Cannon, 3x AG - 99
3 Warriors w/ 3x Boneswords, 2x Deathspitter, 1x Venom Cannon, 3x AG - 99
20 Termagants - 80
Carnifex w/ Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Scything Talons, Enhanced Senses, Spore Cysts, AG - 131
Carnifex w/ Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Scything Talons, Enhanced Senses, Spore Cysts, AG - 131

1500pts (13CP)

I agree with the earlier posters that you should consolidate the Genestealers into one large unit. 5 Genestealers are going to get picked off by bolter fire, and won't do all that much even if they get into CC.

Even as one big unit, they might not work that well. My experience has been that a single unit of Genestealers only works if you go first and get the charge. Most opponents know how hard they hit, and will focus fire into the unit. Once it drops below ten models they lose the extra attack, which hurts a lot, and then they tend to bounce off of things. I would advise running 2x20 if you run Genestealers at all, and having Venomthropes to support them. If you go second, you expect to lose most of one squad, but not many armies can do enough shooting to kill the Venomthropes and both 'stealer squads. At 1500 it will be easier to get away with one unit of 'stealers, but even then its iffy.

The Lictors won't do much either. Awesome models, but hard to get value out of. They are mostly fielded by people looking to fill in slots for a Brigade, and with the new CP rules Brigades are less attractive than they were. .

If you have the models, I would recommend trading the Lictors and Genestealers for Rippers and a third Carnifex. If you are set on using the Genestealers, you should swap the Lictors for 3 Venomthropes, run the 'stealers as a 15 man unit, and move the Termagants into the other Battalion to keep it legal. Dropping two of the Ripper bases for more Genestealers is a good idea as well. Genestealers are very much a unit that wants to be as big as possible.

Venomthropes are going to be very useful in this list. They want to be shot at by big guns like lascannons, which keeps fire away from the Carnifiexes and Hive Tyrant. If there is decent terrain, they can often be hidden out of line of sight first turn. Careful positioning can leave your opponent with nothing to shoot at that isn't -1 to hit. A good opponent will prioritize them, which normally results in you losing the Venomthropes but not much else on the first turn you get shot at. They are the same size as the Lictors, so if you don't have Venomthrope models you should be able to proxy Lictors for them.

vipoid wrote:Can I ask how this list looks?

Kraken Battalion (+5CP):
Broodlord - 162
Neurothrope - 70 (Warlord: Adaptive Biology)
5 Genestealers w/ 1x Acid Maw - 60
5 Genestealers w/ 1x Acid Maw - 60
5 Genestealers w/ 1x Acid Maw - 60
5 Ripper Swarms - 55
Lictor - 45
Lictor - 45

Kraken Battalion (+5CP):
Hive Tyrant w/ Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Scything Talons, AG, TS, Chameleonic Mutation - 192
Tyranid Prime w/ Boneswords, Deathspitter, AG, TS - 112
3 Warriors w/ 3x Boneswords, 2x Deathspitter, 1x Venom Cannon, 3x AG - 99
3 Warriors w/ 3x Boneswords, 2x Deathspitter, 1x Venom Cannon, 3x AG - 99
3 Warriors w/ 3x Boneswords, 2x Deathspitter, 1x Venom Cannon, 3x AG - 99
20 Termagants - 80
Carnifex w/ Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Scything Talons, Enhanced Senses, Spore Cysts, AG - 131
Carnifex w/ Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Scything Talons, Enhanced Senses, Spore Cysts, AG - 131

1500pts (13CP)

I think if you are paying for the most expensive weapon and for another expensive upgrade to shooting, it's not a good idea to make the Carnifexes Kraken, because they will ideally not be advancing to make use of those points. In fact I'd recommend picking between CC or shooty with them. Genestealers get benefit from being in larger squads, so you should consolidate them down, and perhaps add a few more. Warriors are probably better off with Stranglers as well, it's cheaper and better.

Otherwise it looks pretty good to me. If you don't own anymore Genestealers, and your paint scheme is Kraken, then disregard what I said entirely haha.

KurtAngle2 wrote:

You do not even understand trolling, rotfl

Then please stop trolling this thread. It's meant to be a great place to read tactics. Thanks.

Wow, thanks for all the replies, everyone.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

I know you’re kinda limited to models right now, but something you can do is run your Genestealers in one blob(they’ll hit much harder with the +1 Attack), and move the Termagants to that detachment to stay legal. Give your fexes 2x Devourers or Deathspitters instead of Scything Talons to take better advantage of Enhanced Senses.

I'm happy to do both of those, but does it not make the Carnifexes vulnerable to being tied up in melee?

pinecone77 wrote:

It's a strange build...I think if I ran a bunch of Warriors, I'd go Leviathan, maybe swap the Wing'rant into the Krakon? The MSU Stealers just look odd to me, why are you using them that way?

Since I didn't have that many of them, I thought 3 small groups might survive a bit better than one big one.

babelfish wrote:

I agree with the earlier posters that you should consolidate the Genestealers into one large unit. 5 Genestealers are going to get picked off by bolter fire, and won't do all that much even if they get into CC.

Okay, I'll do that.

babelfish wrote:

Even as one big unit, they might not work that well. My experience has been that a single unit of Genestealers only works if you go first and get the charge. Most opponents know how hard they hit, and will focus fire into the unit. Once it drops below ten models they lose the extra attack, which hurts a lot, and then they tend to bounce off of things. I would advise running 2x20 if you run Genestealers at all, and having Venomthropes to support them. If you go second, you expect to lose most of one squad, but not many armies can do enough shooting to kill the Venomthropes and both 'stealer squads. At 1500 it will be easier to get away with one unit of 'stealers, but even then its iffy.

The Lictors won't do much either. Awesome models, but hard to get value out of. They are mostly fielded by people looking to fill in slots for a Brigade, and with the new CP rules Brigades are less attractive than they were. .

If you have the models, I would recommend trading the Lictors and Genestealers for Rippers and a third Carnifex. If you are set on using the Genestealers, you should swap the Lictors for 3 Venomthropes, run the 'stealers as a 15 man unit, and move the Termagants into the other Battalion to keep it legal. Dropping two of the Ripper bases for more Genestealers is a good idea as well. Genestealers are very much a unit that wants to be as big as possible.

Venomthropes are going to be very useful in this list. They want to be shot at by big guns like lascannons, which keeps fire away from the Carnifiexes and Hive Tyrant. If there is decent terrain, they can often be hidden out of line of sight first turn. Careful positioning can leave your opponent with nothing to shoot at that isn't -1 to hit. A good opponent will prioritize them, which normally results in you losing the Venomthropes but not much else on the first turn you get shot at. They are the same size as the Lictors, so if you don't have Venomthrope models you should be able to proxy Lictors for them.

Unfortunately, I don't have enough models for what you're suggesting.

These are all the nid models I own:


My group might let me run the Hormagants as genestealers, which would get me 8 more (but still far fewer than the 40 you're recommending). Unfortunately, I can't even use the Hive Guard or Venomthrope, due to the new minimum squad size (so glad i bothered buying them in Finecrap).

 ShredderShards wrote:

I think if you are paying for the most expensive weapon and for another expensive upgrade to shooting, it's not a good idea to make the Carnifexes Kraken, because they will ideally not be advancing to make use of those points. In fact I'd recommend picking between CC or shooty with them.

If I go with Shooty Carnifexes, what Hive Fleet would you recommend instead of Kraken?

 ShredderShards wrote:
Genestealers get benefit from being in larger squads, so you should consolidate them down, and perhaps add a few more. Warriors are probably better off with Stranglers as well, it's cheaper and better.

Can I ask what makes the Strangler better on Warriors?

 ShredderShards wrote:

Otherwise it looks pretty good to me. If you don't own anymore Genestealers, and your paint scheme is Kraken, then disregard what I said entirely haha.

No, I just went with Kracken because it was what someone suggested earlier. Paint scheme notwithstanding, I've really got no clue which one to use for the models I own.

I just think the Venom Cannon is just a less reliable version of Hive Guard, but seeing as you aren't running Hive Guard, ignore me. I went with stranglers last time i used warriors to free up some points. This was a poor suggestion from me. as for hive fleet for shooting carnifexes, depending on what you want to do with them I'd either go Jorm, Levi, or Kronos. Any of these will benefit a carnifex who isn't running up the field. kraken still makes sense for the top fleet though

I’ve tried running Barbed Stranglers several times and they’re always disappointing. At this point I’d rather it just be another Deathspitter. Venom Cannons have always functioned like a more random Hive Guard, but Troops which is nice.

Vipoid, if you’re worried about your Fexes getting tied up in melee switch out the Enhanced Senses for Acid Maws. If you go back a page or two there was a list who ran that build successfully at the London GT(HVCs, Deathspitters, Acid Maw, Sporocyst, and a Bone Mace). If you’re wanting to run two different fleets keep the WalkTyrant and Genestealers Kraken, then run your second Battalion as Jormungadr for better protection.

 DaBraken wrote:

 N.I.B. wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:


Typically I am shoving haruspex into opponents with swarmlord turn 1. Something most people will not realize until it's too late is this puppy blows up like a boss. auto 3 mortals to everything in range when you roll a 6 to explode (yeah you are going to want to reroll this every time). He will pay for himself on an explosion usually and he can also do some serious damage before that if you get lucky (why this thing hits on 4's...I have no freaking clue) Anyways - T8 is marginally helpful for this guy.

I've also been running Toxicrines (which are surprisingly awesome for me) I ran 3 last game. Same as Haruspex it's a great mortal wound generator. Except he excels in CC where the haruspex is kind of middling but has higher damage potential. He also shoots pretty well. He loses a wound and goes to t7 but is much cheaper too. Personally I think the Toxicrine is the best CC unit in the game for it's cost certainly in the nid codex anyways.

Harr harr, nice trolling!

NIB, if you talk about Haruspex and Toxicrene in regards of trolling, they have their uses. And seeing them so seldom makes them sometimes very great, because noone expects them.
The damage output of a Toxicrene in close combat is nothing to laught about, especially if its in combat with multiple models. Its more like a suicide bomber, but still durable. The only problem is to get it reliable into cc range. I tested them myself a couple of times, with a bit of dice luck they can lay out a lot of hurt on expensive units and screens. The closer the enemy comes, the better for you.

I wouldn't rate any unit with the assumption my opponents will be be unknowledgeable about them. I've played a fair share of games with the Toxicrene. Against elite style cc heavy armies it's usually my first model to die, after I explain to my opponent what it does, It's not neuro science to figure out that it's best to shoot it dead. I'd go so far as to say it makes a decent DISTRACTION CARNIFEX in casual games. But to say it's the best CC unit in the codex, not to mention in the entire game - nuts, man. And Haruspex, why even bother bringing up something that might happen on a single roll of a '6'? It's too rare to have any meaningful bearing on how the unit performs as a whole, and it makes no sense. Haruspex is an overcosted 'cc specialized' monster that basically suck in cc.

pinecone77 wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
Can I ask how this list looks?

Kraken Battalion (+5CP):
Broodlord - 162
Neurothrope - 70 (Warlord: Adaptive Biology)
5 Genestealers w/ 1x Acid Maw - 60
5 Genestealers w/ 1x Acid Maw - 60
5 Genestealers w/ 1x Acid Maw - 60
5 Ripper Swarms - 55
Lictor - 45
Lictor - 45

Kraken Battalion (+5CP):
Hive Tyrant w/ Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Scything Talons, AG, TS, Chameleonic Mutation - 192
Tyranid Prime w/ Boneswords, Deathspitter, AG, TS - 112
3 Warriors w/ 3x Boneswords, 2x Deathspitter, 1x Venom Cannon, 3x AG - 99
3 Warriors w/ 3x Boneswords, 2x Deathspitter, 1x Venom Cannon, 3x AG - 99
3 Warriors w/ 3x Boneswords, 2x Deathspitter, 1x Venom Cannon, 3x AG - 99
20 Termagants - 80
Carnifex w/ Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Scything Talons, Enhanced Senses, Spore Cysts, AG - 131
Carnifex w/ Heavy Venom Cannon, Monstrous Scything Talons, Enhanced Senses, Spore Cysts, AG - 131

1500pts (13CP)

I would change it to this. If WYSIWYG don't matter.

Spoiler:

Kraken Battalion (+5CP):
Broodlord - 162, Catalyst (Warlord Ygmral Factor)
Swarmlord -300, Paroxsym, Catalyst
16 Genestealers w/ 4x Acid Maw - 192
19 Termagants-76
5 Ripper Swarms - 55
Total 709

Leviathan or Kronos Battalion (+5CP):

Neurothrope - 70, Onslaught
Tyranid Prime w/ Boneswords, Deathspitter, AG, TS - 112
3 Warriors w/ 3x Boneswords, 2x Deathspitter, 1x Venom Cannon, 3x AG - 99
3 Warriors w/ 3x Boneswords, 2x Deathspitter, 1x Venom Cannon, 3x AG - 99
3 Warriors w/ 3x Boneswords, 2x Deathspitter, 1x Venom Cannon, 3x AG - 99
Carnifex w/ 2x Two Dev w/ Brain Leech Worms, Enhanced Senses, Spore Cysts -117
Carnifex w/ 2x Two Dev w/ Brain Leech Worms, Enhanced Senses, Spore Cysts -117
Total 789
Grand Total 1498

If you can proxy hormies as termies, drop the rippers to 3x and add 5 more termagants. Use these guys to screen.
Broodlord, GS, Swarmlord (since you said wysiwg dont matter) are your T1 charge. With Kraken use Opportunitic Advance on the Broodlord to get him up close. Move your GS up and use the Hive commander ability on them. If possible try to kill a cheap character with the GS/BL and use feeder tendrils. Also consider fight again stratagem. (may need to wait for your gunline to clear screeners before moving them in during that shooting phase). Cast Paroxysm on his most deadly unit you charge to force it to fight last. Give catalyst to GS. If you want or need to, consider metabolic Overdrive on the Swarmlord to get him up close for a turn 2 charge. G

If you find yourself needing surviablity go for Levithan, you have lots of synapse and that will give you shooting gunline a lot more survivabilty. If you think you can get a good setup and not move your guys too much, go Kronos for reroll of 1s. Use pathoenic slime on one of your dakkafex (that didn't move) to get 2 damage output and target multiwound models. Rippers DS onto objectives T2


Edit: Forgot to move the termagants to the other detachment.