Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Maleceptor is a fun concept, but it needs a few tweaks.

Make it WS3, BS5, St5, T6, W8, A4, Mv9, Sv4+

Give it a 5++ invun from barrier, shadow in the warp, psycher.

Make it only know smite and its own special power which is the 12" d3 mortal wounds on a 4+ to every unit. It also cannot deny.

Give it acid maw and Ravenous Maw for melee weapons. Also make Ravenous Maw a 3 shot pistol with 6" range.

Ravenous Maw gives you D3 attacks for every base attack you make with it and is Str4 ap-1, heals it for every model it kills.


Cost it like 95 points and you have a fun unit.

Umm... that is strictly worse than the current rules for it. You're trading -2S, -1T, -4W, -1 on both armor and invul, the ability to deny, +1 to casting attempts, and Massive Scything Talons for +1 WS, +2Mv, lower strength melee weapons (one of which was stolen from the fellow Elite Haruspex - its kinda its defined by its Maw dontcha know?), a side-grade on Psychic Overload (can hit more targets and does more wounds but is far less reliable), and a 65 point cost reduction.

Honestly I have used my Malceptor a bit in 8th and it did fine apart from one game where it got 1-rounded on the first turn (even still, it took ALL of the opposing army to kill it). It isn't great in melee against squads but it does have the same can-opener talons as a Trygon for taking on transports and does have a 4+ invulnerable to protect it. The main problem I've had is just it is a giant target since people are more scared of its mortal wounds bubble than they really ought to be (it is really only dangerous for MSU where it can tag the full 6 units and each kill hurts more). That and I only have 1 and it would really rather be run in pairs or trios to maximize on its capabilities.

Should also add, I saw the Toxicrene got a nice cost drop too. It already felt decent for its price before whenever I used mine, so I'll be looking forward to seeing if it starts making an appearance in some competitive lists at the new price point.

Ahh sorry, I forgot I would have also given it character trait.

 Strat_N8 wrote:
Umm... that is strictly worse than the current rules for it.

Honestly I have used my Malceptor a bit in 8th and it did fine apart from one game where it got 1-rounded on the first turn (even still, it took ALL of the opposing army to kill it). It isn't great in melee against squads but it does have the same can-opener talons as a Trygon for taking on transports and does have a 4+ invulnerable to protect it. The main problem I've had is just it is a giant target since people are more scared of its mortal wounds bubble than they really ought to be (it is really only dangerous for MSU where it can tag the full 6 units and each kill hurts more). That and I only have 1 and it would really rather be run in pairs or trios to maximize on its capabilities.

Should also add, I saw the Toxicrene got a nice cost drop too. It already felt decent for its price before whenever I used mine, so I'll be looking forward to seeing if it starts making an appearance in some competitive lists at the new price point.

With both swarmy and Toxicrine going down - I think we might see some toxicrine action. Apart from it's very impressive melle (6 str 7 ap -2 d3 damage attacks that reroll wounds) It also has very potent short range shooting and 1 of them can be shot like a pistol in CC. Plus it deals mortals in 3 different ways.

I play with it just cause it's fun now - but I've considered it in competitive lists too. Something that you might have missed if you just glanced at it is that when it explodes it does 3 flat mortals. Basically anytime it explodes in combat it makes up it's points.

Toxicrene is interesting. One concern I have with it is that degradation hits it hard. When it drops a profile it loses in 3 melee stats. Not much else does that.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Something that you might have missed if you just glanced at it is that when it explodes it does 3 flat mortals. Basically anytime it explodes in combat it makes up it's points.

Yep, the Haruspex has the same Frenzied version of the explodes rule (both incidentally also have acid blood). The poor old Haruspex might be worth giving a look over again too. I've always had a bit of a soft spot for them.

 Strat_N8 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Something that you might have missed if you just glanced at it is that when it explodes it does 3 flat mortals. Basically anytime it explodes in combat it makes up it's points.

Yep, the Haruspex has the same Frenzied version of the explodes rule (both incidentally also have acid blood). The poor old Haruspex might be worth giving a look over again too. I've always had a bit of a soft spot for them.

Me too - It just feels so Niddy that I want to like it. Hitting on 4's is garbage though. The first few times I played it I rolled really good and got high on it. After that I realized it's just not very good offensively - which is sad for a 200ish point dedicated melle unit. He did drop some but his main competition is the toxicrine who also went down.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Arson Fire wrote:
Toxicrene is interesting. One concern I have with it is that degradation hits it hard. When it drops a profile it loses in 3 melee stats. Not much else does that.

Well that is true - they can't just ignore it because it shoots pretty good too. You basically want this thing to die anyways and pray for epic explosions.

Anyone have any ideas for a fun melee list at 1500 points? I just need a solid core to get started with really, I'm new to nids this edition.

It's almost exclusively hordes in my local meta.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Anyone have any ideas for a fun melee list at 1500 points? It's almost exclusively hordes in my local meta.

Toxicrines and haruspex will do great in that environment. Give that a shot. Also Trygon + hormagaunts with adrenal glands sounds fun.

Maleceptors have done some work for me in the past, especially when run with Hive Tyrants. I run them Kraken, with the double move strat you can usually get them wherever you want for max carnage. Either the AoE or smite/shriek.

Well yeah but isn't that just worse than using genestealers in almost every conceivable way?

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Well yeah but isn't that just worse than using genestealers in almost every conceivable way?

Well...Geensteelers don't put shadow in the warp and a deny in place. I totally agree with you though - the total damage is going to be low.

Which is why you would run them both, use the double advance stratagem on the genestealers, and have 2 units in the enemy’s face turn 1.

How about the cheaper tyrannocytes? I even consider bringing them with VCs for extra anti tank. Is it worth it and what to transport in it?

 SHUPPET wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
I need to give the pyrovores a go, but the models are in finecast and too costly. Anyone knows of any good conversion?

co-sign, they look really strong now but i'm not using that model

I keep looking at Tyranid Warriors, or possibly Hive Guard, plus some spare biocannons I have from a Tyrannocyte. I'm not too keen on the current for Biovore/Pyrovore models, and I'd like a few.

Yeah I had to just bite the bullet and buy the pyrovores. 6 hive guard and 9 pyrovores ate up $500ish but since im going to LVO I actually need to use the real things since im not gonna buy the Chinese stuff.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Maleceptor is a fun concept, but it needs a few tweaks.

Make it WS3, BS5, St5, T6, W8, A4, Mv9, Sv4+

Give it a 5++ invun from barrier, shadow in the warp, psycher.

Make it only know smite and its own special power which is the 12" d3 mortal wounds on a 4+ to every unit. It also cannot deny.

Give it acid maw and Ravenous Maw for melee weapons. Also make Ravenous Maw a 3 shot pistol with 6" range.

Ravenous Maw gives you D3 attacks for every base attack you make with it and is Str4 ap-1, heals it for every model it kills.


Cost it like 95 points and you have a fun unit.

Maleceptor is hugely underestimated.

I run him regularly, and he is getting almost banned in non-competitive matches

Play leviathan and put that thing turn 1 into your opponent face with a big psy blow. Won't do a lot of damage, 4-5 MWs usually, but then they have this huge thing with SitW and deny stuck into the deploy zone which is a real pain to take down. For it's cost it has always given me huge satisfactions. Now that it also dropped in price, i'm seriously thinking about playing 3 in a competitive list.

Really? I played it twice, my friend a few times, and even when it got in range, it did almost nothing. I wont even play it at all, there is no point to.

It's a disruption beast, doing damage is a bonus for her.

That said, maybe it works just because my leviathan lists avoid having any good target for the enemy. I like high durability in that list.
If you have any high obvious high priority target like a flyrant, Maleceptor will hardly work. It's not her kind of list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SHUPPET wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
I need to give the pyrovores a go, but the models are in finecast and too costly. Anyone knows of any good conversion?

co-sign, they look really strong now but i'm not using that model

Found this https://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/195143-Conversion,%20Pyrovore,%20Tyranids.html

I would consider bringing 1 but not 3. I am pretty sure I am going to be running Zoans though.

Spoletta wrote:


Maleceptor is hugely underestimated.

I run him regularly, and he is getting almost banned in non-competitive matches

Play leviathan and put that thing turn 1 into your opponent face with a big psy blow. Won't do a lot of damage, 4-5 MWs usually, but then they have this huge thing with SitW and deny stuck into the deploy zone which is a real pain to take down. For it's cost it has always given me huge satisfactions. Now that it also dropped in price, i'm seriously thinking about playing 3 in a competitive list.

That's really satisfying to read. I do like the concept of the model a lot, and it seems to have some juicy niche uses.

The Maleceptor still needs a considerable range increase to Psychic Overload. That is my main problem with it.

Tyran wrote:
The Maleceptor still needs a considerable range increase to Psychic Overload. That is my main problem with it.

Yeah...compare it to a Necron Trans Ctan (yeah necrons are just terrible). He can pick a 9" aura of d3 mortals to every unit in range on a 4+. It ether goes off on a 2+ or automatically - don't remember. It's a lot better than the malceptor though. He has a 4++ and actual close combat ability to - plus hes a character with 8 wound so can't just be shot down off the table ether.

The TCtans don't cost 150 points, don't have SitW and don't deny enemy powers.

Spoletta wrote:
The TCtans don't cost 150 points, don't have SitW and don't deny enemy powers.

They also can't be denied themselves. That kind of overrules that. Plus It's three times as effective in CC with better powers and is untargetable to shooting. Yeah it costs 50 more points but if these units are to scale then Ctan should be 350 points. It's pretty clear the Maleceptor should be like...100 points or less compared to the ctan at 200 points.

Yeah that's a pretty solid comparison and really highlights that the Maleceptor is not that great.

Maleceptor's overload also cannot be denied. Besides he also has a 4++ and is synapse. I think that both are reasonably different. You can even drop a Maleceptor with a pod.

 Astmeister wrote:
Maleceptor's overload also cannot be denied. Besides he also has a 4++ and is synapse. I think that both are reasonably different. You can even drop a Maleceptor with a pod.

Now if only it didn't have a gak range. The Maleceptor is fine in general, its only real problem is that Overload is a poor ability because gak range, and the entire point of the monster is the overload.

Since the Neuro is now 90p. I will test Maleceptor again. since it is as tough as a Hive Tyrant every shot at it is not hitting my Tyrant.

pros:
Psychic Overload can't be denied.
one more deny per turn.
more then double the hp
T7
way better melee


Neurothrope:
pros:
CSR
better inv. save
fly rule





you can denie the psychic powers but not Psychic Overload. which does 1.33 wounds to very unit in range. and since the neuro is now 90p the maleceptor seems not so bad. I am going to test it. the neuro can cast two psychis powers and denie one. so the maleceptor

 Astmeister wrote:
Maleceptor's overload also cannot be denied. Besides he also has a 4++ and is synapse. I think that both are reasonably different. You can even drop a Maleceptor with a pod.

But it would be out of range - so that makes no sense.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 nordsturmking wrote:
Since the Neuro is now 90p. I will test Maleceptor again. since it is as tough as a Hive Tyrant every shot at it is not hitting my Tyrant.

pros:
Psychic Overload can't be denied.
one more deny per turn.
more then double the hp
T7
way better melee


Neurothrope:
pros:
CSR
better inv. save
fly rule





you can denie the psychic powers but not Psychic Overload. which does 1.33 wounds to very unit in range. and since the neuro is now 90p the maleceptor seems not so bad. I am going to test it. the neuro can cast two psychis powers and denie one. so the maleceptor

I suppose it doesn't give -1 to smites ether when you use tendrels. So that is another advatage. It's biggest draw back is it is not an HQ IMO.