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The narrative of unit X is bad does not really lend much to the discussion. I think having a different focus would be better.

But I do not think the Mawlock is that bad. It is the cheapest soruce of T6 3+ wounds. They are mobile. It does have the pop up attack. Combine it with other units that are though to kill and you can have a really good meaty list that is hard to kill. Focus on survival and it can become hard to kill all the nids.

The maleceptor is also surprisingly competitive. Cheap synapse with two casts and a 4++ on a tough platform. It needs to be Kraken of course but it also hits decently hard (even though WS 4+ with 3 attacks is nothing to really write home about).

In a vacuum it looks bad, but when you combine it with prepared positions and the fact that first turn Tyranids are almost certainly charging something, probably tying something else up, and generally greatly reducing enemy firepower plus making them deal with a giant blob of genestealers in their back line....well let’s just say that the maleceptor is going to be just fine for the time being. Additionally he likely will be -1 to hit from your friendly local malanthrope/venomthropes. Anyone want to shoot at a T7 -1 to hit 2+/4++?

Are there more efficient things to do with the points? Surely. But you could do a lot worse. I wouldn’t take it if I were trying to win a GT, but saying that I can’t win casual games with one or two in my list is categorically untrue.

I win local tournaments with a Maleceptor in my list. I’m not gonna say it’s bleeding edge ultra competitive in my scene, but anything that wins me thirty bucks is okay in my book.

I also like the walkrant (mrc and venom canon) for my current Levi lists. He is is very durable with the Levi trait (reroll one roll per round, I usually reroll an invul save on a high dmg wound). He babysits the warrior spam lists (3*9 warriors) for when 1 big thing crashes into them

Hi Folks!

Fledgling Tyranid player here. A few of my local stores had some boxing day sales so I'm putting together (literally) a Nidzilla list to start out with. So far, here's what I've got for my Spearhead Detachment:

1x Flyrant - Heavy Venom Cannon
1x Tyrannofex - Acid Spray
1x Tyrannofex - Acid Spray
1x Trygon

If my math is correct, that's about 750 points exactly. A few questions for the Tyranid veterans out there ...

1) Would Kraken or Leviathan suit that list better?
2) Acid Spray or Rupture Cannon for the Tyrannofexes?
3) Recommendations for 250 points to fill out to 1000? The Swarmlord seems like the quickest option, but I'm wondering if there are more effective alternatives.

Thanks!

I would not recomend leviathan. You need more synaose for that.

Kronos i bad because the acid sprayvdoes not roll to hit.

At 1000 points the kraken item is quite good. As you increase the points of the games, less so.

 orchewer wrote:
Hi Folks!

Fledgling Tyranid player here. A few of my local stores had some boxing day sales so I'm putting together (literally) a Nidzilla list to start out with. So far, here's what I've got for my Spearhead Detachment:

1x Flyrant - Heavy Venom Cannon
1x Tyrannofex - Acid Spray
1x Tyrannofex - Acid Spray
1x Trygon

If my math is correct, that's about 750 points exactly. A few questions for the Tyranid veterans out there ...

1) Would Kraken or Leviathan suit that list better?
2) Acid Spray or Rupture Cannon for the Tyrannofexes?
3) Recommendations for 250 points to fill out to 1000? The Swarmlord seems like the quickest option, but I'm wondering if there are more effective alternatives.

Thanks!

I replied to you other post, but here it goes:

Swarmlord would be a good choice here I think. It could slingshot himse4lf into combat quickly and wreck things without getting shot too much. The Acid Spray Fexes could try to clear any screen in front of targets.

I would go for Leviathan here myself. Very few models, but all the army will benefit from it and would be harder to take down. And if you elect the Flyrant as the Warlord, Levi trait cold be nice and possibly the Miasma Cannon for him too!

You can never go wrong with some gants to cover your monsters from charges. If you want more monsters then I would say Carnifexes.

The weapons depends on the meta. The Acid Spray is an amazing defensive weapon, but the Rupture Cannon is better if your have to deal with enemy T8.

I’d honestly say go Jormungandr instead. The 2+ cover save on those tyrannofexes will prevent more damage than the 6+ FNP, and you can bring in a ton of units with the Trygon to alpha strike something.

I’m thinking of trying out two Tyrannocytes full of Pyrovores. They’re 10” flamers so they can reach out and touch what they want to, and crowding them around the tyrannocyte means you have to charge both units which is a ton of str 5 overwatch.

Tyrannocites are too expensive for 3 Pyrovores.

One of the biggest problems of the unit is it low model count. GW should increase to at least 6 max (plus they would get to sell even more Pyrovores).

We have similar problems with Lictors and Biovores.

Niiai wrote:I would not recomend leviathan. You need more synaose for that.

Kronos i bad because the acid sprayvdoes not roll to hit.

At 1000 points the kraken item is quite good. As you increase the points of the games, less so.

Skywave wrote:
I replied to you other post, but here it goes:

Swarmlord would be a good choice here I think. It could slingshot himse4lf into combat quickly and wreck things without getting shot too much. The Acid Spray Fexes could try to clear any screen in front of targets.

I would go for Leviathan here myself. Very few models, but all the army will benefit from it and would be harder to take down. And if you elect the Flyrant as the Warlord, Levi trait cold be nice and possibly the Miasma Cannon for him too!

Tyran wrote:You can never go wrong with some gants to cover your monsters from charges. If you want more monsters then I would say Carnifexes.

The weapons depends on the meta. The Acid Spray is an amazing defensive weapon, but the Rupture Cannon is better if your have to deal with enemy T8.

Badablack wrote:I’d honestly say go Jormungandr instead. The 2+ cover save on those tyrannofexes will prevent more damage than the 6+ FNP, and you can bring in a ton of units with the Trygon to alpha strike something.

Thanks for all the advice! I played a team game yesterday where I had the Swarmlord to fill in and Jormungandr Hive Fleet. I'm kind of eyeing Leviathan or Kraken for my next one just to see how much I miss the 2+ cover save. A few follow-up questions:

1) Should I even bother aiming the Acid Spray at T7 or T8 vehicles or reserve them solely for infantry? I was able to fire a few potshots at an enemy Falcon, but the results were a little underwhelming. It's looking to me like the Acid Spray is mainly for taking out chaff while my other stuff go for the harder targets ...

2) On that note, what are the ideal targets for my Swarmlord to be aiming at? He absorbed a metric ton of fire before finally falling, but it felt like I under-used him by not aiming him at the harder targets and getting bogged down in the screens.

The Acid Spray can do wonders against T7, but it will be mediocre against T8. But you want it to double fire, which is tricky with the poor range.

Is there a google doc/excel thats sortable with all our stats?

Arkengate wrote:
Is there a google doc/excel thats sortable with all our stats?

Not that i know of, but i bet you can make your own in 20min

Has anyone here used Movement trays? How were they? did they work at all for you and nids?

Arkengate wrote:
Has anyone here used Movement trays? How were they? did they work at all for you and nids?

Yep, they work fine, i use the 5 man ones that are staggered, i also have beastmen and goblins so another reason why i got them. The 10man ones are not very good for 40k, but great for AoS.

I tried out a Jormungandr gunline this weekend with some pretty great results. No real deepstrike to speak of, just tyrannofexes and dakkafexes with lots of shooty chaff and malanthrope support. -1 hit 2+ save monster mash is tough to dislodge, though there were some tough decisions in having short range guns and only a few ways to move it up the board quickly.

One big star was a tyrannofex with the fleshborer hive as an antivehicle/anti elite clearer. Popping the scorch bugs and pathogenic slime strats let it do some nasty damage to enemy knights, obelisks, and other stuff that could shrug off bigger hits but we’re vulnerable to mass small stuff. Wounding on a 2+ on infantry and 4+ on knights is what raised it above acid spray for me, though the acid would still be superior in many instances.

 Badablack wrote:
One big star was a tyrannofex with the fleshborer hive as an antivehicle/anti elite clearer. Popping the scorch bugs and pathogenic slime strats let it do some nasty damage to enemy knights, obelisks, and other stuff that could shrug off bigger hits but we’re vulnerable to mass small stuff. Wounding on a 2+ on infantry and 4+ on knights is what raised it above acid spray for me, though the acid would still be superior in many instances.

Nice! I've been wondering about the Fleshborer Hive's viability with the cost drops. Good to see it got some work done. I might have to reconfigure my own T-fexes to do a few test runs...

Even with scorch bugs, acid spray averages more damage vs a knight. And both of those are better than the rupture (assuming a 3++ of a castellan, at 4 or 5++ it's #2, and 6++ #1). If we had some way to get the Tyranno +1 to hit, the fleshborer hive may be a real competitive choice, but as it stands, I don't think Tyrannos are remotely competitive for anti-tank.

Being good anti-infantry is a role that the codex has no issues filling, so at the end of the day the Tyrannofex remains shelfed for me.

Bring back the stock 2+ on the Tyranno and suddenly it fills an interesting role where it can threaten all targets a little less efficiently than a Carnifex, but is far more durable with T8 and 2+.

I think their versatility (of Acid Spray / Fleshborer Fex) can't be ignored. They don't just hunt tanks they can put the hurt on whatever. They are just real bruisers. I don't think they can solely handle AT duties on their own though.

I personally don't like the Close range TFexes in this edition of piling in to other units


In the case of the Rupture Fex... 48" and 2+ save in Jorm is just a gotdamn brick, and I think they are perfectly viable AT, though I'd still take Hive Guard next to them.

Hive Guard definitely put more of a hurt on targets, but they are far squishier than a tyrannofex. Also their main defense, shooting from out of LOS, isn’t always available or can be negated. And once they start getting shot at they crumple fast.

 Badablack wrote:
Hive Guard definitely put more of a hurt on targets, but they are far squishier than a tyrannofex. Also their main defense, shooting from out of LOS, isn’t always available or can be negated. And once they start getting shot at they crumple fast.

With 36" shooting, if you cant get LoS then you need to add more terrain on the table.

Post Chapter approved, how good an army base of 3x9 Kronos warriors with deathspitters/venom cannons + tyranid prime for the buff would be?

On paper that's 9 venom cannons plus 25 deathspitters, hitting at 3+ with reroll 1's. Or, 9d3 missile launchers and 25 heavy bolters with added mobility for 850ish pts. Then supplement the rest of the list as needed.

You can also pay the rending claws and now your gunline can protect itself as well.

Do you think something like that could work?

Why take rending claws when the boneswords are much better? And Kronos is the wrong fleet, Warriors want to be moving so they can use their deathspitters and their melee.

Tyran wrote:
Why take rending claws when the boneswords are much better? And Kronos is the wrong fleet, Warriors want to be moving so they can use their deathspitters and their melee.

Rending Claws are, correct me if I'm wrong, cheaper.

Tyran wrote:
Why take rending claws when the boneswords are much better? And Kronos is the wrong fleet, Warriors want to be moving so they can use their deathspitters and their melee.

With the huge volume of attacks from 28 warriors and Ws 2+, I prefer to have the occational -4 ap to rend through a 2+ armor rather than the static +1 ap. Maybe I'm wrong, but sometimes I need to be able to open some metal cans.

The main source of 2+ you'd be looking at are Custodes, who are 2+/4++.

 JNAProductions wrote:
The main source of 2+ you'd be looking at are Custodes, who are 2+/4++.

At any rate, that's secondary. The main question is, how would sinking 800+ pts into warriors fare as a backbone shooting base to keep your part of the table intact? Then I could fill the board with an extra 80-100 gants for forward objective capping and the remaining points with synapse and utility.

Are 9 venom cannons enough as AV shooting or will I need hive guard support? Will 20 deathspitters be enough anti-infantry shooting or will I need more?

Boneswords are far better.

For 1 extra point you gain another attack and -1ap all the time.

I'd almost rather scything talons that the rending claws on warriors if I was trying to save points.


Venom cannons are not bad with the points reduction, but they don't put out much more damage than deathspitters on average actually. They pull ahead againgst primaris equivalent and armor, but loose out againgst most anything else for the points.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Boneswords are far better.

For 1 extra point you gain another attack and -1ap all the time.

I'd almost rather scything talons that the rending claws on warriors if I was trying to save points.


Venom cannons are not bad with the points reduction, but they don't put out much more damage than deathspitters on average actually. They pull ahead againgst primaris equivalent and armor, but loose out againgst most anything else for the points.

How do you get an extra attack with boneswords over rending claws?