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 admironheart wrote:
Can someone tell me where in the faq this is? I can no longer find it.

I am asking about the Call the Brood Strat. I think...The one that brings in 5 genestealers. I read you had to pay for them out of reinforcement points. The faq clearly states you have to pay for the strat that brings in spore mines. I cannot find the one about the genestealers.

The reason I was wondering was the 3CP strat the Green Tide.(??) I was told they did not have to pay reinforcement points for their free models. That seems un consistent. Is that correct?

You don't need a FAQ to tell you that you need to pay. You are setting up a new unit, so the general rule is that you have to pay.
Green tide does not set up a new unit, but removes one from the field and resets it to full strenght, so it doesn't pay.

 admironheart wrote:
Can someone tell me where in the faq this is? I can no longer find it.

I am asking about the Call the Brood Strat. I think...The one that brings in 5 genestealers. I read you had to pay for them out of reinforcement points. The faq clearly states you have to pay for the strat that brings in spore mines. I cannot find the one about the genestealers.

The reason I was wondering was the 3CP strat the Green Tide.(??) I was told they did not have to pay reinforcement points for their free models. That seems un consistent. Is that correct?

Its in the basic rule book FAQ, the commentary pages, and in Xeno's, Nids faqs, and many others. Also its noted in the actual rules that you pay for reinforcements.

ALL rules that adds a unit cost reinforcement points UNLESS otherwise noted, aka spores.

Rules that bring back models into units still left do not

FYI, the Sporefield stratagem is the worst stratagem in game, the community has asked for it to be change, its not meant for Match play, not all rules are for match some are there mostly for open/narrative. Spore field strat is literally pointless as FW spores HAS that rule already.

Sporefield strat was fine like it was when the book came out if used like it was meant (i.e. for basic spore mines).

GW realized that it was a bit broken with the FW mines and kneejerk nerfed it.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Sporefield strat was fine like it was when the book came out if used like it was meant (i.e. for basic spore mines).

GW realized that it was a bit broken with the FW mines and kneejerk nerfed it.

No it wasnt, it was just as complained about and just as bad, again the FW spore HAS this rule, why spend the same points AND 3CP for the same thing? You literally are wasting 3 CP. And the Spore field was a formation from 7th, it was used in almost every nids list, that is the real "Knee jerk" decision, they saw how popular it was in 7th and like everything that was popular in 7th it was nerfed.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Sporefield strat was fine like it was when the book came out if used like it was meant (i.e. for basic spore mines).

GW realized that it was a bit broken with the FW mines and kneejerk nerfed it.

No it wasnt, it was just as complained about and just as bad, again the FW spore HAS this rule, why spend the same points AND 3CP for the same thing? You literally are wasting 3 CP. And the Spore field was a formation from 7th, it was used in almost every nids list, that is the real "Knee jerk" decision, they saw how popular it was in 7th and like everything that was popular in 7th it was nerfed.

You really should take the time to read the posts you respond to.

Anyone tried spamming 3 units of 9 spore mines to take on a knight? If my math is right (might not be) that would be 27 mortal wounds on average assuming you get all 27 within exploding range.

You could use sporefield, pray for first turn, then double move a single unit of them into explode range. But it’s unlikely your opponent will let the others get near him after that. And spore mines are rather easy to kill. Meiotic Spores are better for that sort of thing anyway, since they do D3 a pop. But that’s 162 points for an average of 18 mortal wounds, only if you get first turn and your opponent doesn’t screen his knight.

 Badablack wrote:
You could use sporefield, pray for first turn, then double move a single unit of them into explode range. But it’s unlikely your opponent will let the others get near him after that. And spore mines are rather easy to kill. Meiotic Spores are better for that sort of thing anyway, since they do D3 a pop. But that’s 162 points for an average of 18 mortal wounds, only if you get first turn and your opponent doesn’t screen his knight.

And he forgets that he can save mortal wounds on 5+

Biovores are better, 48" range no LoS, re-roll htis of 1 cans hoot twice.

Spoletta wrote:

 Badablack wrote:
You could use sporefield, pray for first turn, then double move a single unit of them into explode range. But it’s unlikely your opponent will let the others get near him after that. And spore mines are rather easy to kill. Meiotic Spores are better for that sort of thing anyway, since they do D3 a pop. But that’s 162 points for an average of 18 mortal wounds, only if you get first turn and your opponent doesn’t screen his knight.

And he forgets that he can save mortal wounds on 5+

Not as House Raven, isnt that Taranis household trait?

 Dynas wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

 Badablack wrote:
You could use sporefield, pray for first turn, then double move a single unit of them into explode range. But it’s unlikely your opponent will let the others get near him after that. And spore mines are rather easy to kill. Meiotic Spores are better for that sort of thing anyway, since they do D3 a pop. But that’s 162 points for an average of 18 mortal wounds, only if you get first turn and your opponent doesn’t screen his knight.

And he forgets that he can save mortal wounds on 5+

Not as House Raven, isnt that Taranis household trait?

It's the 'Benevolence Of The Machine God' stratagem, which any mechanicus house can use.

Arson Fire wrote:

 Dynas wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

 Badablack wrote:
You could use sporefield, pray for first turn, then double move a single unit of them into explode range. But it’s unlikely your opponent will let the others get near him after that. And spore mines are rather easy to kill. Meiotic Spores are better for that sort of thing anyway, since they do D3 a pop. But that’s 162 points for an average of 18 mortal wounds, only if you get first turn and your opponent doesn’t screen his knight.

And he forgets that he can save mortal wounds on 5+

Not as House Raven, isnt that Taranis household trait?

It's the 'Benevolence Of The Machine God' stratagem, which any mechanicus house can use.

Oh damn. Never seen that one used before. Man the Mechanicus really did get all the good strats. Imperialis traditions are gak maybe hawkshroud, but you might as well pay 1 cp for top shelf.

Hi. Is there a breakdown of list archtypes of nid lists?

 Niiai wrote:
Hi. Is there a breakdown of list archtypes of nid lists?

I mean they're mostly just buzzwords and at this point not really the same as they once were. Nidzilla used to be genuine Nidzilla, nothing more than mandatory minimum troops, and just maxed out Flyrants and Carnifexes. Things are a lot more balanced out now, even if you go slightly heavier on MC's you need a bunch of bodies and still want Hive Guard etc, at least in competitive play its by far the better call. Lictorshame isn't a thing anymore, and just spamming a unit in general isn't even an option or a good choice even if it was, 8th is more about taking a mixture of tools. Or maybe that's because of Ro3, hard to know, either way, these strong "archetypes" aren't really a thing. StealerShock used to be like literally nothing but Genestealers and some anti-tank, even that term has been tuned down into 2-3 units of Stealers + a Swarmlord.

I guess Horde and Nidzilla, StealerShock all have some meaning. Gunline isnt really competitive as we have some great shooting units but they generally come with diminishing returns but I guess it is an option. There's probably one or two of these that I'm forgetting. Is that what you were asking about?

I was more thinking of list examples, probably at warius point values.

If they do come i packages I suppose that is handy as well. A genestealer lists needs 40 genestealers and swarmlord for 730 points. That sort of thing.

Like what does a nidzilla army look like? What do you use as anti tank in such a list. Is it just 27 carnifexes with neuronthropes?

 Niiai wrote:
I was more thinking of list examples, probably at warius point values.

If they do come i packages I suppose that is handy as well. A genestealer lists needs 40 genestealers and swarmlord for 730 points. That sort of thing.

Like what does a nidzilla army look like? What do you use as anti tank in such a list. Is it just 27 carnifexes with neuronthropes?

Nidzilla is any list that runs close to pure monstrous creatures. 20ish Carnifexes with Neurothropes, Carnifiexes and Hive Tyrants, Tyrants and Trygons, so forth and so on. Classic nidzilla is Carnifex and Hive Tyrant heavy, because when it was invented Neurothropes didn't exist and Trygon's were a FW superheavy.

A modern casual and fluffy version would run walking Hive Tyrants, Trygons, Malanthropes, and Carnifexes, with lots of scything talons, bone swords, devourers, and venom cannons. Detachment wise it would likely be 3x3 heavy detachments, and likely look to either Jorgmr. for the +2 save or Leviathan for the FnP.

A competitive version of it would be built around twin devouerer armed Jorgmr. Carnifexes and Neurothropes, and likely run 2-3 squads of Hive Guard. At least two squads of the Hive Guard would be carrying shock cannons, with the expected use being to tunnel them in and alpha down a Knight. You can use a Trygon for this, in order to keep to the theme, but Raveners are much cheaper, and the Trygon will likely get killed before it can do anything besides deliver the Hive Guard. The third Hive Guard unit would be hanging out somewere out of LOS, using Impaler cannons and double tapping (because it is your only infantry shooting for the strat to go on besides the shock cannon guard) at 36". You would attempt to structure the army as twin Jorgmr. (because 2+ save Carnifexes) battalions (because CP), with 6 units of Rippers in the troops slots, and Neurothropes as the HQ. You are likely taking a broodlord (cheap) or flying Hive Tyrant (useful, can get the -1 to hit relic) as the 4th HQ.

It is possible to build a shooty Nidzilla army, based around Exocrines, acid spray Tyranofexes, and dakka Carnifexes. This build runs Malanthropes as HQs in order to help keep the Exocrines and Tyranofexes alive, and suffers because it can't absorb going second to a halfway decent shooting army. The detachment structure can get a bit weird, as you want to run a lot of HS choices. The build also really wants (a) Hive Guard and (b) to be both Kronos (Hive Guard and Exocrines) and Jorgmr. (T-fexes, Carnifexes, shock Hive Guard).

I'm finally Back Info nids after I Sold them all off last time because painting 200 Models scared me.

This is what I got myself for a brutal cc nidzilla list:

2 Broodlords, Old one Eye, 5 Carnifexes, 1 Maleceptor, 1 Trygon, 2 Mawlocs, 1 Tyrannofex and a Scythed Hierodule

I'm pretty pumped to build an Play this

Thanx babelfish, that was very insightfull.

I mostly play cassual games. I do not like pickup games at the local club. If I run to competetive my opponent probably will only lose until he does the same. Stil it ss not bad to have that option if I ever play competetive.

The 'competetive list' you describe needs to be johrm for the delivery of the hive guards right? Othervice the list has no delivery system, and harder to reach brigade. I finaly wanted to have an official colouracheme so at some point I painted all my nids in the leviathan colours. I feel compelled to stick with them. A bit bad since behemot and jorm er the most competetive of them. Fornleviathan to pay off I need to engage the stratgem with flyers (well worth 1cp) or have synapse near the distraction carnifexes.

I was thinking of braching into GSC. The dozer truck seems like a good melee unit. And a squad that can charge from out of deepstrike also seems goo, vs a high prioraty target. There are also some good utilaty models. Like the sniper, the pistoler and the CP regaining one. But by then I might be diluting the army a bit.

I asume the only horde clearing weapon in the nidzilla army are devourers? (Perhaps the fleshborer hive?)

PS: Has anyone done any mathhammer on the varius shooting options after chapter aproved did the point decrease?

Depends on your meta, is it knight and anti-knight meta or not. If not Nids CA worked wonders for them via Tfex. Harpies are are good if you already take venoms/malanthropes otherwise still costly with the nature -1 to hit.

Nidzilia will take Devs for anti-horde, and a Tfex with Flamer, tho thats also really good to hit -1/-2 to hit Fly units as well.

Non-traditional Nidzilia can still play with smaller units like Pyrovores, Broodlords, etc.. if going for Brigade and all Rippers as troops (6x3) Rippers are in almost all fluff as clean up crews so it doesnt break fluff.

Fex spam is a thing, but sadly due to knights and anti-knights they die really fast, even if you do have 18-20 of them, you will lose 3 a turn easily if not more.

 Niiai wrote:
Thanx babelfish, that was very insightfull.

I mostly play cassual games. I do not like pickup games at the local club. If I run to competetive my opponent probably will only lose until he does the same. Stil it ss not bad to have that option if I ever play competetive.

The 'competetive list' you describe needs to be johrm for the delivery of the hive guards right? Othervice the list has no delivery system, and harder to reach brigade. I finaly wanted to have an official colouracheme so at some point I painted all my nids in the leviathan colours. I feel compelled to stick with them. A bit bad since behemot and jorm er the most competetive of them. Fornleviathan to pay off I need to engage the stratgem with flyers (well worth 1cp) or have synapse near the distraction carnifexes.

I was thinking of braching into GSC. The dozer truck seems like a good melee unit. And a squad that can charge from out of deepstrike also seems goo, vs a high prioraty target. There are also some good utilaty models. Like the sniper, the pistoler and the CP regaining one. But by then I might be diluting the army a bit.

I asume the only horde clearing weapon in the nidzilla army are devourers? (Perhaps the fleshborer hive?)

PS: Has anyone done any mathhammer on the varius shooting options after chapter aproved did the point decrease?

Small nitpick, kraken and jorgmdr are the most competative hive fleets. Jorgmdr because we have some really useful things to deep strike and the +1 save is a strong default trait. Kraken because mass Kraken genestealers are really good.

As far as fluff and painting go, being flexable and responding to change is one of the defining traits of Tyranids. A Leviathan force facing mass pskyers will evolve ways to kill pskyers (i.e., become Kronos). It is rare to run into a non-tyranid player who can tell the hive fleets apart, much less cares if your paint scheme matches the fleet rules. TLDR, dont worry too much about it, do what makes you happy.

GSC has some interesting tools. They have a block of useful characters, and several ways to deliver powerful CC units. I recomend you look at saw equipped Acolytes. A 20 man unit with max saws with the correct character support can get a all but guaranteed charge out of deep strike and can kill a knight on the charge. The build that enables it costs around 800 points, which gives you room for lots of monster's on the bug side.

Is there an 'established' build that dies it? The 800 GSC that is.

From what I understand there are some ways to get there. From abberants to the mining troops. Some amount of varius support characters from primus to magus. Even the banner guy.

Also, there is some discussion about what cult. Twisted helix for S. Four armed emperor for the safer charge and counterspell. Pauper princes for hitting. Rusted claw for survivabilaty afterwards. Even bladed cog has that stratagem that lets them generate new attacks on an unmodefied 5+ vs knight. (Also good with sniper and mining lasers.)

Here's what I've been having fun with both in casual play and tournaments (above 50% win ratio in tournaments):

Beerzilla

Kraken batallion
Hive Tyrant – Wings, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, 2 Devourers, The Reaper of Obliterax
Old One Eye warlord (Adaptive Biology)

3 Ripper Swarm
3 Ripper Swarm
10 Termagants

Deathleaper

Kraken batallion
Hive Tyrant – Wings, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, 2 Devourers, Monsterous Rending Claws, Chameleonic Mutation
Hive Tyrant – Wings, Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, 2 Devourers, Monsterous Rending Claws

3 Ripper Swarm
3 Ripper Swarm
10 Termagants

Carnifex – Adrenal Glands, 2x Monsterous Scything Talons, Bone Mace, Spore Cysts, Tusks
Carnifex – Adrenal Glands, 2x Monsterous Scything Talons, Bone Mace, Spore Cysts, Tusks
Dakkafex – Adrenal Glands, 4 Devourers, Spore Cysts, Enhanced Senses, Bone Mace

Dakkafex – 4 Devourers, Spore Cysts, Enhanced Senses
Dakkafex – 4 Devourers, Spore Cysts, Enhanced Senses

Tyrannofex – Acid Spray

Kronos Fortification
Sporocyst – Barbed Strangler

2000pts


I sometimes swap Reaper + Deathleaper for 3 Pyrovores, now that they are so cheap and have ok synergy with Kraken (they can advance and shoot and be annoying in cc).

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/b37tdi/better_late_than_never_lvo_2019_primary_faction/?ref=readnext

So apparently Tyranids are worse than Space Marines right now....

How can this be?

 Dynas wrote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/b37tdi/better_late_than_never_lvo_2019_primary_faction/?ref=readnext

So apparently Tyranids are worse than Space Marines right now....

How can this be?

That is looking at primary factions. So if someone takes Girlyman with 3 leviathon dreads... then fills 2 battalions with AM and Admech... well their primary faction may still technically be Adeptus Astartes. This faction stuff is hard to figure out when anything Imperium has access to 15 codexes.

 Dynas wrote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/b37tdi/better_late_than_never_lvo_2019_primary_faction/?ref=readnext

So apparently Tyranids are worse than Space Marines right now....

How can this be?

By looking at Primary factions instead of how the game is actually played. This is absolutely not representative of who is "best" at all.

 Zimko wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/b37tdi/better_late_than_never_lvo_2019_primary_faction/?ref=readnext

So apparently Tyranids are worse than Space Marines right now....

How can this be?

That is looking at primary factions. So if someone takes Girlyman with 3 leviathon dreads... then fills 2 battalions with AM and Admech... well their primary faction may still technically be Adeptus Astartes. This faction stuff is hard to figure out when anything Imperium has access to 15 codexes.

Agreed, but you usually don't see soup Nids, maybe GSC/Nids.

But you definitely see soup Space Marines

 Niiai wrote:
Is there an 'established' build that dies it? The 800 GSC that is.

From what I understand there are some ways to get there. From abberants to the mining troops. Some amount of varius support characters from primus to magus. Even the banner guy.

Also, there is some discussion about what cult. Twisted helix for S. Four armed emperor for the safer charge and counterspell. Pauper princes for hitting. Rusted claw for survivabilaty afterwards. Even bladed cog has that stratagem that lets them generate new attacks on an unmodefied 5+ vs knight. (Also good with sniper and mining lasers.)

So if you are going to soup in GSC you have to look at what they bring that you don't already have.

The shooting builds that GSC players are excited about don't mesh well with Tyranids, because you already have ways to get almost everything they bring, and don't want to spend 3/4 of your points chasing the synergies that make the pure GSC shooting builds interesting.

In particular, shooting wise, GSC and bugs can both bring substantial amounts of reasonably durable anti-infantry (cultist blobs, mortor teams, devourers on gaunts/tyrants/Carnifexes, biovores) and decent anti-medium tank shhoting (mining lasers, hive guard, demo charges, hive guard, exocrines). Both lack good heavy anti tank shooting. GSC has some ability to bring Guard as a solution, Tyranids have shock cannon Hive Guard. GSC does have a pair of very solid snipers, something Tyranids lack, and the Kellermorph, who fills a similar target characters role.

The big thing Tyranids lack that GSC can provide is the ability to counter the IG+ Knight builds. My preferred version is a Cult of the Four Armed Emperor battalion. I see the argument for the +1S from Twisted Helix, but I think that having the dent strat as an option and threat is more important. In a pure GSC force I would run my big assault units as Twisted Helix and a small detachment as C4AE. Souping doesn't permit that luxury, so C4AE it is.

The key parts are:

20 Hybrids with Banner and 8x Saws. Big punching unit, lots of high S attacks. Can deep strike and move d6 inches using a stratagem, then charge. Used for deleting knights. Costs ~230 points.

Patriarch. HQ, deep strikes, brings two very useful powers: might from beyond (+1S and A on the Hybrids) and mental onslaught, the leadership roll of for mortal wounds that has everyone losing their minds. Needs to bring at least one familiar so he can cast both the turn he lands. ~135 points.

Primus. HQ, deep strikes. Reroll 1's to the Hybrids the turn he lands. 75 points.

Magus. HQ. Brings a no overwatch power and enables giving all three of the HQ's a warlord trait via the Broodcoven stratagem. Very useful. 80 points.

Two units of Neophytes. Cheap troops to fill in the battalion. Around 70 points depending on if you try to make them useful by giving them lasers. Stand on objectives or screen.

Clamavus. Elite. +1 charge bubble (so 1d6+2 out of the deep strike for the Hybrids). Leadership buff bubble, synergizes with the Patriarch for Ld11 mental onslaught. 55 points.

This gives you a nasty deep strike and murder unit that cannot be ignored. With the various characters, it costs just over 800 points. You also get access to a strong cc threat and one of the nastiest spells in the fame on the Patriarch.

It is worth thinking about adding in a Kellermorph, a Nexos and a Sancutus. At around 60 each, they provide character removal and CP regen that Tyranids otherwise struggle to get. I would personally run all three, and use the 1050 or so remaining points on sweet sweet genestealers.

Oh, is that what the established list looks like. ^_^

Yeha, I agree there are some cool things in there, that will make sence in most lists and as natural inclusions. I think you are going a bit over board. The primus and Clamavus seems redundant. There is little for them to do once all the 20 hybrids gets wiped out. (And they will.)

Neophytes does little that ripper swarms do not already do. What you want from GSC is mostly a unit of Hybrids and some elite choises. Patriarch and Magus for some cool psykick powers and more snipe.

Hi there,

I've been wanting to play Nids for a long time but never got around to do it. Now I've bought a Flyrant and the Start collecting set.

Since Nids are for me all about the looks I don't want any Nids in my army holding guns or swords. This thus leaves Talons and claws mostly. As playing style I would like them to be as heavy CC as possible with a lot of Deeptstrik 'tunneling' pressure.

I am thinking of fielding the following. Could you please advice me where to go from here?
- Flyrant
- Broodlord
- Large unit genestealers
- 2 small units Hormagaunts
- 2 Trygons
- 2 Melee fexes
- Screamer Killer