Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2019/12/27 15:16:27
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Nitro Zeus wrote: That's because my list isn't so one dimensional forced to duke it out in a shootout from across the board with a RepEx.....
Meanwhile you still don't give any reasons why that hierodule would survive the first round of shooting and why the rest would survive after that. I gave you a bunch of enemies army-lists that could take you out without a sweat and the only thing you got to say about that is: 'well, the rest is so tough and I got great board control'
BTW: I play ITC rules so with that kind of setup it doesn't matter if you got board control. The enemy simply keep killing more units and get extra points for that (big game hunter, marked for death..) and you wont claim any enemies objectives turn 1 or 2 so you are already behind.
Ironically I would probably take out your list with my 'fun carnifex list' because your damage output is so low and I could simply take out your hierodule with my double shooting kronos hive guard and carnifexes. After that it is just shooting fish in a barrel.
BTW you said that your hierodule get's a 4++ from dermic symbiosis but that gives him a 5++, so maybe I'am missing something (it happens..) but if not, he is not that tough.
I made one mistake in my carnifex list BTW: I would give it 'Synaptic Augmentation' so that every single carnifex can reroll a single to hit. That really works nicely with heavy venom cannons. But I'am not going to find out any time soon because I already know nidzilla is doomed. So no reason in playing it outside casual play.
2019/12/27 16:01:41
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Boltstorm is just too real out here. No matter how much infantry you take, there's match ups that can shred it. Nidzilla has all the tools needed to work now. Malanthrope + The Horror + Resonance Barb + Dermic Symbiosis is so nice.
I'll still play infantry heavy too with Cult allies because it's still strong in other match ups, but I think Nidzilla is the real star atm.
Beside all the discussion, I think this is a great list, how would you play this list vs IH or other heavy gunlines?
Spoiler:
I think this list is great too. The way a list like this plays in general is just the move MC's up under the Malanthrope bubble, cover the wings and spread around the board with fast advancing Termagants in front of Dakkafexes, while the ball of MC's advances under the the Malanthrope bubble. They will likely be in range of SOMETHING after a turn, but definitely in your opponent's face by turn 2 unless it encounters significant speedbumps, which should be ideal anyway to such a close range high volume shooting army.
Run forward and set up out front of your opponent's gunline. It's easier to play vs guys who can't threaten your Hierodule in melee. You want to be casting Horror on whatever in range could do the most damage to him. You want to end your turn with the Hierodule either beneath the Malanthrope bubble, or in combat with something that can't fall back. But not being able to lock something down doesn't mean you can't use him earlier though - Resonance Barb on the Onslaught isn't a typo, it's a really reliable cast with +1 to cast, re-roll natural 1s, so you can advance the Hierodule up in their face with flat 18", charge, kill something, maybe even fight twice, or get a flamer off if you see the opportunity, and the use Overrun stratagem to fall all the way back to the Malanthrope. If your opponent is playing a castle or doesn't have any one great target for The Horror, you can also consider the new Kraken power to make those charges go even further, as you may not be able to get any value off the Horror until like turn 3 if at all. For ease during gameplay, the rough math on Hierodule's 3D6 drop lowest is basically a regular charge +2", with a cap of 12" obviously. With re-rolls from Kraken you safely risk 9" charges or more. So just try to dance him in and out of combat until you can safely get stuck in.
The Toxicrene is included in the list because it's about the same price and similar damage at times as a Dakkafex, but is chosen instead of one because there is room for another bug under the Malanthrope umbrella (Carnifexes use their own spores and spread out a little) and if your opponent is forced to try deal with everything else first, a Toxicrene can be a punishing thing to have to deal with charging you. And if they set-up anything midfield, well, if you get a Toxicrene in range of that you can potentially charge that thing with all your bugs and use it as a lighthouse for a turn in the right circumstances. Don't see it as something you rely on, but still keep one there just for that coverage on the games where they can't safely deal with a bunch of high T -1 to hit wounds.
The list has plenty of CP, you probably want to be using both Metabolic Overdrive and Opportunistic Advance both most turns on something, even if it's just Termagants. Use the move and shoot stratagem on the Exocrine just to keep him in range of the Malanthrope without penalty. Saving CP for double fighting Hierodule and Overrun is your impact strats. A single biovore is just low investment tech, but can be used to severely limit the movement of a Knight, which is important when you're playing a Hierodule, you can block a melee Knight or at least make them go a long way and miss their change. Move and shoot him for 5+ to hit and likely drop a Spore, double shoot him if it saves your Hierodule getting charged by a Knight, that's a game altering play for just 40 points.
Against Iron Hands, or SM in general, a couple of things - if they have Eliminators with a Phobos captain, your Malanthrope goes down by their second turn without even requiring LoS - look at terrain and try to deploy and advance in a way that will force them to sit somewhere that your Hierodule will be able to reach out and touch. If not, consider picking up the Kraken relic on him, maybe using your Catalyst cast on him instead of the Hierodule (don't do this lightly), and remembering that while Venomthropes are infantry, the Malanthrope IS an MC for the purpose of Rapid Regeneration, and a full Eliminator set-up only has a 3/4 chance or so to kill him by turn 2 - even an extra wound or two will make those chances shrink phenomenally, and even that 1 extra shooting phase of defensive bubble can basically make all the difference. If they roll hot on the first shooting phase and leave him on like 2 wounds don't bother though obviously. But if you can use that extra turn to kill the Eliminators, 1 wound on a Malanthrope is basically full wounds since nothing else (except greed!) can touch him really. And if this happened you've basically invalidated his entire points investment on that one there. On the topic of Malanthrope greed - getting re-roll 1s army wide is good, but -1 to hit to is more important especially when a good portion of your damage is auto-hitting with flamers anyway, so only go for that when it's safe.
Iron Hands specifically, use the Lictor to counter the Overwatch when their castle is at it's strongest - probably the first time you charge with the Hierodule. Don't overthink it, take the opportunity to lower some damage while it's on the available, and remember that Kraken means that if for some reason the Lictor survives that combat till the next turn, or if they put max dice on your actual threats since you're probably bearing down hard at this point, then you can fallback to into terrain (DOESN'T have to be cover, just as long as you're on a terrain feature) and then use the stratagem to do it again. May not happen all the time but whatever it's enough to be relevant.
Vs Iron Hands, the Dakkafexes want to get in melee with AP5 maws and a Bonemace. If you can lock stuff down with a Toxicrene, or just base up multiple things, you can safely fallback and charge just to add on those Mortal Wound dice and the +1 to hit.
If they are running Repulsors just try to get a Hierodule in combat with one, fight twice, and Overrun back to safety. Do this twice and you are doing well. If they have a bunch of Flyers I dunno. Try to position the Tyrannofex so that the flyers will land in range I guess, and protect the Exocrine the most, and remember to add 1 damage to his shooting (just in general a good thing to do anyway). Chase them down on your side of the board with Hierodule flamer, and try to use your big base sizes to limit their movement. Focus less on your Malanthrope here since they will be coming to you, but again keep the Exocrine in range of it most likely and try hold the objectives with MC's, save your troops for the ones that need to be contested by ObSec.
Using a very similar list, I went undefeated in an event recently that had multiple SM lists in. My path took me through four Power Armour lists and one Knight + Ad Mech gunline. And this was pre-Blood of Baal stuff, which makes a MASSIVE difference in our favor. I have full confidence in this list to perform, if you as a general are up to it. I also think infantry Nids is still equally as good on paper, but its just a meta call at the moment because boltstorm is so common that you may just get shredded off the table in too many matchups.
THANK YOU, for an exhaustive and informative answer on the list. I be been watching your results from afar and I believe you are a skilled and Intuitive player. I've would like to discuss the list further in the near future. I put in an order just before x-mas, so by the time I build and paint,maybe next month, I'll start to play this competitively. I will pm you if you want to.
For the rest, I've been pretty active on this forum and too often there is the one guy with talent and results discussing and having to defend his positivity with a bunch on nayers and doomsday caller that fail to grasp why THEY are loosing and others are winning.
You obviously have been thinking about this deep and hard, those who counter your think process presents no evidence or, again, results, to back up their thoughts and all in all it fall back in everybody having their own echo chamber of thought process and other different opinions are simplified in "so what are you saying is". This problem is all over internet and is getting worst everyday.
Although is not all doom and gloom, and for those, like you Nitro, that can still kick some ass being the underdog, the situation is just a deeper and more satisfying way of achieving something in a passion and/or obsession as this game we all love, or hate is. Sometimes is good enough to hate something together too.
All in all, keep on the good work, for once, I support you. People like you helped me taking a whole new army and never playing anything competitive, to be ranking 250 ITC with orks and no Lootas. Kudos dude
2019/12/27 20:59:26
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Emicrania wrote: For the rest, I've been pretty active on this forum and too often there is the one guy with talent and results........
Then please give me the battle reports and results and if I'am really missing something then I'am going to shut up. And I will give him the credit he deserves and take my hat off.
Is Nitro Zeus a bigshot 40k player with a great record? I don't know? Please tell me if so.
Emicrania wrote: You obviously have been thinking about this deep and hard, those who counter your think process presents no evidence...
I don't need to bring evidence against the player that claims his nidzilla list is so great. That is his job. Do I need to bring evidence on how his list doesn't work?
2019/12/27 21:57:29
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Hahaha. Well, I have a record that I'm very happy with so far in 8th, including multiple tournament wins under my belt so far, no Major's though so feel free to ignore me I guess? I'm not going to dox myself as I've made that mistake in the past, people who know me know me, and plus I am of the belief opinions should be valued for their own merit, not from who says them. I've heard some pretty questionable stuff from a great player at least once before, and I've found insight from even random nobodies. Everyone is wrong sometimes, and even a broken clock is right at least twice a day. But I will share this list from another player that got top 4 at a GT a few weeks ago, that had two other Iron Hands players in the top 4.
+ Lord of War [22 PL, 410pts] + Scythed Hierodule [22 PL, 410pts]: 2x Massive Scything Talons [60pts]
++ Total: [110 PL, 8CP, 2,000pts] ++
He also beat some scary lists including an Imperial Fist list running multiple Repulsor Executioners that you claimed Nidzilla or anything running a Hierodule can't possibly beat. That Fist went on to do quite well, and ironically, beat a different Nid player who was making heavy use of Carnifexes and Mawlocs.
And this was all PRE-BoB, and PRE-CA, so as of now his list has only gotten significantly stronger.
And I personally think that my list, while a similar concept, is a bit more improved and refined, but different players will inevitably have different approaches and I respect his.
But hey, what do I know. HiErOdUlE cAnT sUrViVe PaSt TuRn 1, so what he did is literally impossible and all that.
I wonder if people will actually hold true to their word and admit when they are wrong. There's more to the game than setting up on the back of the board and shooting anything in the middle, but that's something we each have to figure out for ourselves.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2019/12/28 07:20:28
2019/12/27 21:58:08
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Boltstorm is just too real out here. No matter how much infantry you take, there's match ups that can shred it. Nidzilla has all the tools needed to work now. Malanthrope + The Horror + Resonance Barb + Dermic Symbiosis is so nice.
I'll still play infantry heavy too with Cult allies because it's still strong in other match ups, but I think Nidzilla is the real star atm.
Beside all the discussion, I think this is a great list, how would you play this list vs IH or other heavy gunlines?
Spoiler:
I think this list is great too. The way a list like this plays in general is just the move MC's up under the Malanthrope bubble, cover the wings and spread around the board with fast advancing Termagants in front of Dakkafexes, while the ball of MC's advances under the the Malanthrope bubble. They will likely be in range of SOMETHING after a turn, but definitely in your opponent's face by turn 2 unless it encounters significant speedbumps, which should be ideal anyway to such a close range high volume shooting army.
Run forward and set up out front of your opponent's gunline. It's easier to play vs guys who can't threaten your Hierodule in melee. You want to be casting Horror on whatever in range could do the most damage to him. You want to end your turn with the Hierodule either beneath the Malanthrope bubble, or in combat with something that can't fall back. But not being able to lock something down doesn't mean you can't use him earlier though - Resonance Barb on the Onslaught isn't a typo, it's a really reliable cast with +1 to cast, re-roll natural 1s, so you can advance the Hierodule up in their face with flat 18", charge, kill something, maybe even fight twice, or get a flamer off if you see the opportunity, and the use Overrun stratagem to fall all the way back to the Malanthrope. If your opponent is playing a castle or doesn't have any one great target for The Horror, you can also consider the new Kraken power to make those charges go even further, as you may not be able to get any value off the Horror until like turn 3 if at all. For ease during gameplay, the rough math on Hierodule's 3D6 drop lowest is basically a regular charge +2", with a cap of 12" obviously. With re-rolls from Kraken you safely risk 9" charges or more. So just try to dance him in and out of combat until you can safely get stuck in.
The Toxicrene is included in the list because it's about the same price and similar damage at times as a Dakkafex, but is chosen instead of one because there is room for another bug under the Malanthrope umbrella (Carnifexes use their own spores and spread out a little) and if your opponent is forced to try deal with everything else first, a Toxicrene can be a punishing thing to have to deal with charging you. And if they set-up anything midfield, well, if you get a Toxicrene in range of that you can potentially charge that thing with all your bugs and use it as a lighthouse for a turn in the right circumstances. Don't see it as something you rely on, but still keep one there just for that coverage on the games where they can't safely deal with a bunch of high T -1 to hit wounds.
The list has plenty of CP, you probably want to be using both Metabolic Overdrive and Opportunistic Advance both most turns on something, even if it's just Termagants. Use the move and shoot stratagem on the Exocrine just to keep him in range of the Malanthrope without penalty. Saving CP for double fighting Hierodule and Overrun is your impact strats. A single biovore is just low investment tech, but can be used to severely limit the movement of a Knight, which is important when you're playing a Hierodule, you can block a melee Knight or at least make them go a long way and miss their change. Move and shoot him for 5+ to hit and likely drop a Spore, double shoot him if it saves your Hierodule getting charged by a Knight, that's a game altering play for just 40 points.
Against Iron Hands, or SM in general, a couple of things - if they have Eliminators with a Phobos captain, your Malanthrope goes down by their second turn without even requiring LoS - look at terrain and try to deploy and advance in a way that will force them to sit somewhere that your Hierodule will be able to reach out and touch. If not, consider picking up the Kraken relic on him, maybe using your Catalyst cast on him instead of the Hierodule (don't do this lightly), and remembering that while Venomthropes are infantry, the Malanthrope IS an MC for the purpose of Rapid Regeneration, and a full Eliminator set-up only has a 3/4 chance or so to kill him by turn 2 - even an extra wound or two will make those chances shrink phenomenally, and even that 1 extra shooting phase of defensive bubble can basically make all the difference. If they roll hot on the first shooting phase and leave him on like 2 wounds don't bother though obviously. But if you can use that extra turn to kill the Eliminators, 1 wound on a Malanthrope is basically full wounds since nothing else (except greed!) can touch him really. And if this happened you've basically invalidated his entire points investment on that one there. On the topic of Malanthrope greed - getting re-roll 1s army wide is good, but -1 to hit to is more important especially when a good portion of your damage is auto-hitting with flamers anyway, so only go for that when it's safe.
Iron Hands specifically, use the Lictor to counter the Overwatch when their castle is at it's strongest - probably the first time you charge with the Hierodule. Don't overthink it, take the opportunity to lower some damage while it's on the available, and remember that Kraken means that if for some reason the Lictor survives that combat till the next turn, or if they put max dice on your actual threats since you're probably bearing down hard at this point, then you can fallback to into terrain (DOESN'T have to be cover, just as long as you're on a terrain feature) and then use the stratagem to do it again. May not happen all the time but whatever it's enough to be relevant.
Vs Iron Hands, the Dakkafexes want to get in melee with AP5 maws and a Bonemace. If you can lock stuff down with a Toxicrene, or just base up multiple things, you can safely fallback and charge just to add on those Mortal Wound dice and the +1 to hit.
If they are running Repulsors just try to get a Hierodule in combat with one, fight twice, and Overrun back to safety. Do this twice and you are doing well. If they have a bunch of Flyers I dunno. Try to position the Tyrannofex so that the flyers will land in range I guess, and protect the Exocrine the most, and remember to add 1 damage to his shooting (just in general a good thing to do anyway). Chase them down on your side of the board with Hierodule flamer, and try to use your big base sizes to limit their movement. Focus less on your Malanthrope here since they will be coming to you, but again keep the Exocrine in range of it most likely and try hold the objectives with MC's, save your troops for the ones that need to be contested by ObSec.
Using a very similar list, I went undefeated in an event recently that had multiple SM lists in. My path took me through four Power Armour lists and one Knight + Ad Mech gunline. And this was pre-Blood of Baal stuff, which makes a MASSIVE difference in our favor. I have full confidence in this list to perform, if you as a general are up to it. I also think infantry Nids is still equally as good on paper, but its just a meta call at the moment because boltstorm is so common that you may just get shredded off the table in too many matchups.
THANK YOU, for an exhaustive and informative answer on the list. I be been watching your results from afar and I believe you are a skilled and Intuitive player. I've would like to discuss the list further in the near future. I put in an order just before x-mas, so by the time I build and paint,maybe next month, I'll start to play this competitively. I will pm you if you want to.
For the rest, I've been pretty active on this forum and too often there is the one guy with talent and results discussing and having to defend his positivity with a bunch on nayers and doomsday caller that fail to grasp why THEY are loosing and others are winning.
You obviously have been thinking about this deep and hard, those who counter your think process presents no evidence or, again, results, to back up their thoughts and all in all it fall back in everybody having their own echo chamber of thought process and other different opinions are simplified in "so what are you saying is". This problem is all over internet and is getting worst everyday.
Although is not all doom and gloom, and for those, like you Nitro, that can still kick some ass being the underdog, the situation is just a deeper and more satisfying way of achieving something in a passion and/or obsession as this game we all love, or hate is. Sometimes is good enough to hate something together too.
All in all, keep on the good work, for once, I support you. People like you helped me taking a whole new army and never playing anything competitive, to be ranking 250 ITC with orks and no Lootas. Kudos dude
Thanks mate. I'm done responding to the people who swear up and down there's a better way to do it, but cannot coherently explain that alternative or provide any sort of list that does it better. It's clear that could happily be extended forever, and It's pretty clear to me what might motivate such a person to argue a point so relentlessly.
I appreciate the moderate head, and consideration to thought and experience before deciding upon something to be a certain way. There's a certain level of play some people seem to reach and never seem to be able to step past it, because they can't see past what the groupthink is telling them. Most top players of every game will tell you that a long time ago they stopped listening to the unbreakable 'rules' of the game that the internetheads seem to try press on everything they see, and this game in particular is far less rigid than mid to low level players seem to think. I don't luck my way through my games, I know exactly what is considered strong, but I put a lot of thought and consideration into every aspect of my list building and gameplay and acknowledgment of the likely meta. The number one thing that helped me improve as a player was building a deeper understanding to make these calls myself rather after realising the majority of advice out there is just people parroting what they've seen said the most. And people are especially quick to write off their own army after a few losses because it's easier than accepting that they might have been able to do something differently for a better outcome.
Feel free to ask me anything at any time. I'm playing this list for the perceivable future and my experience with it will be building going forward over the next month or two. I'd love to hear your experience even running something similar. Put it in here, that's what this thread is for! Don't let one or two loud voices shout you out of the conversation. But feel free to PM me if you'd prefer.
This message was edited 11 times. Last update was at 2019/12/27 23:07:38
2019/12/28 00:08:09
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
grouchoben wrote: Hey everyone, I've long eyed up horde-nid as a new army option, and Hormagaunts in particular. I know, I know.
But does the new custom hive ruleset make them viable?
You can tech them to have -2AP on their attacks, which transforms the unit's role pretty drastically, or go -1ap and 6++.
So yeah, assuming you go bleeding edge with the rest of your army (Kronos hiveguards et al), could you see a list with 90 hormagaunts doing good work?
It is worth noting raveners benefit from this. They can have 2 sets of scything tallons getting an exstra attack, does not need to pay for rending claw and they got point drops in the chapter aproved. So go for massed scything tallons can be nice.
It is worth noting raveners benefit from this. They can have 2 sets of scything tallons getting an extra attack, does not need to pay for rending claw and they got point drops in the chapter aproved. So go for massed scything tallons can be nice.
This is actually something I've been musing over. Raveners bring a lot of attacks per model with the additional benefit of WS 3+ and a 12'' move, and are reasonable at killing screens prior to a charge if given Spinefists. With AP on their talons they should be a genuine threat and their current cost isn't too bad (+6 points over a 'stealer for +2 wounds and +2 attacks, flat 12'' move instead of 8 + D6'').
Hypothetically, a core of Hormagaunts and Raveners is part of the way towards building a Brigade. Could easily fill the Elites with some Lictors to help mitigate overwatch, leaving Heavy Support and HQ to be filled.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/12/28 01:56:14
2019/12/28 03:58:10
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
It is worth noting raveners benefit from this. They can have 2 sets of scything tallons getting an extra attack, does not need to pay for rending claw and they got point drops in the chapter aproved. So go for massed scything tallons can be nice.
This is actually something I've been musing over. Raveners bring a lot of attacks per model with the additional benefit of WS 3+ and a 12'' move, and are reasonable at killing screens prior to a charge if given Spinefists. With AP on their talons they should be a genuine threat and their current cost isn't too bad (+6 points over a 'stealer for +2 wounds and +2 attacks, flat 12'' move instead of 8 + D6'').
Hypothetically, a core of Hormagaunts and Raveners is part of the way towards building a Brigade. Could easily fill the Elites with some Lictors to help mitigate overwatch, leaving Heavy Support and HQ to be filled.
Good point maybe Ravagers can return to their former reputation.
The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER
2019/12/28 08:58:04
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Emicrania wrote: We ll talk more once i can play the list Nitro, I think it is a very strong list with a lot of potential and hidden tricks.
Also I think it is a great counter vs Marines. My horde ork get smashed vs bolter and TFC
Yup thats the big threat right now. Bolter spam is just too much for infantry to do anything but get shredded off the table. As much as I love my bodies, I don't think it's viable for a while. Nidzilla gives us a running chance vs this kind of thing. It's the only way Tyranids have been seeing success lately as well. I think it's the best option. Good luck with it! Can't wait to hear your experience, it trumps theoryhammer any day.
2019/12/28 09:00:53
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
grouchoben wrote: Hey everyone, I've long eyed up horde-nid as a new army option, and Hormagaunts in particular. I know, I know.
But does the new custom hive ruleset make them viable?
You can tech them to have -2AP on their attacks, which transforms the unit's role pretty drastically, or go -1ap and 6++.
So yeah, assuming you go bleeding edge with the rest of your army (Kronos hiveguards et al), could you see a list with 90 hormagaunts doing good work?
It is worth noting raveners benefit from this. They can have 2 sets of scything tallons getting an exstra attack, does not need to pay for rending claw and they got point drops in the chapter aproved. So go for massed scything tallons can be nice.
Yeah, i think that many of us have been thinking of that point, they seem really cost efficient now. Remember that the Gorgon power affects all friendly models, not only Gorgon, so it is possible to give -2AP to them.
Another thing to notice is that you can now really spam warriors with the same concept. They have 1 less attack and are obviously not as fast, but they are troops, have a 4+ and are synapses. Against bolters they are better tanks than infantry squads, even if those bolters are -2AP.
Also, i can easily see a big warrior squad being the norm in many lists, they are simply too hard to take down efficiently. Ignore -1/-2 on them and be ready for a -1 damage. It does not fear bolters, stalker bolters, TFC, plasma, executioners (rolls of 1 2 and 3 damage don't kill the warrior on those cannons), It is a troop that can occupy the midfield, provide synapse, shoots quite well and is a reasonably dangerous melee threat. Previously this wouldn't work because everyone had a smashcaptain in the pocket ready to make a carnage, but now they don't.
2019/12/28 22:11:23
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Current total: 1655 (if I haven't forgotten anything - still in the process of memorizing new costs)
Still need 1 HQ to make it a legal brigade, but there are still a fair amount of points left over. The Mawloc's are admittedly somewhat of a whimsical choice for the heavy support slot, but they do benefit from the strictest interpretation of Bio-metallic Cysts and have their uses for positional dominance (drop them in behind the enemy so they can't fall back as effectively) while being fairly cheap heavy supports. I'm not sure what to do for the second half of the custom trait. On one hand the Pack Hunters would be nifty as a way to double down on the added AP, but it suffers the same problem as Hydra's adaptation with its trigger condition.
I'm going to keep playing around a bit with points. I think I should be able to make a variant with more fire support (Hive Guard and Biovores in place of Mawlocs) that might be a bit more take-all-comers.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/28 22:28:02
2019/12/29 08:10:26
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Nitro Zeus: how do you get a 4++ on your Heirodule? I would love to see him work in my games and a 4++ would do wonders.
Haven't tested it yet, since I did not play a game since the new supplement, but the Biosphere Consumption adaptation looks nice for Nidzilla as well. It gives a 6+++ On the first battle round (when you most need it) and for monster artillery in subsequent rounds. Thought it nice on top of the 5++ for the Heirodule giving him a better chance to get there (24 wounds sorta becomes 37 with the 5++ and 6+++). Better then the regeneration adaptation in my book.
Singleton Mosby wrote: Nitro Zeus: how do you get a 4++ on your Heirodule? I would love to see him work in my games and a 4++ would do wonders.
Haven't tested it yet, since I did not play a game since the new supplement, but the Biosphere Consumption adaptation looks nice for Nidzilla as well. It gives a 6+++ On the first battle round (when you most need it) and for monster artillery in subsequent rounds. Thought it nice on top of the 5++ for the Heirodule giving him a better chance to get there (24 wounds sorta becomes 37 with the 5++ and 6+++). Better then the regeneration adaptation in my book.
I meant 5++, that was my bad, shogun pointed that out earlier before he stopped posting. It's a force of habit from being used to Flyrants being the only thing with invuls for us that I write out 4++, I do the same thing with Genestealers and Zoanthropes, please discount any instances of me describing Nid models as having a 4++ going forward the 5++ is great it's why I'm taking the Dermic Symbiosis, the big one is the bracket ignoring though
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/12/29 11:32:10
2019/12/29 11:25:16
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Singleton Mosby wrote: Nitro Zeus: how do you get a 4++ on your Heirodule? I would love to see him work in my games and a 4++ would do wonders.
Haven't tested it yet, since I did not play a game since the new supplement, but the Biosphere Consumption adaptation looks nice for Nidzilla as well. It gives a 6+++ On the first battle round (when you most need it) and for monster artillery in subsequent rounds. Thought it nice on top of the 5++ for the Heirodule giving him a better chance to get there (24 wounds sorta becomes 37 with the 5++ and 6+++). Better then the regeneration adaptation in my book.
I meant 5++, that was my bad, shogun pointed that out earlier before he stopped posting. It's a force of habit from being used to Flyrants being the only thing with invuls for us that I write out 4++, I do the same thing with Genestealers and Zoanthropes, please discount any instances of me describing Nid models as having a 4++ going forward the 5++ is great it's why I'm taking the Dermic Symbiosis
Good to know.
A 5++, 6+++ (first turn) and minus 1 to hit makes the Heirodule quite resilient I suppose. Hope to give it a try next week.
I recently won an RTT with this against top meta armies (Marines, Imperial soup, Eldar/DE).
Good job! Did you manage to dodge TFC's gunning for your Genestealers? Can you tell us more about your games? Did you give Synaptic Lure to the Swarmlord and if so did you get any use of it? I imagine Symbiostorm on the Hive Guards was boss?
2019/12/30 00:08:21
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
-Typically the warriors get +1 cover adaptive physiology and park themselves in the middle of the table. Only time I took ignore -1/-2 was against 9x Dark Reapers. Sometimes I'll catalyst one unit and -1 damage the other so there isn't an obvious target against lots of multi-damage weapons.
-I go back and forth on the genestealers due to the TFC issue but honestly I still think you need at least one unit. Without assault jank what exactly are Tyranids good at? I'm considering dropping them for gargoyles though.
Nuero (1): Symbiostorm (Exocrine or HG depending on target)
Nuero (2): Catalyst or Onslaught (Depends on opponent also gets res barb)
Swarmlord: Catalsys or Onslught & psyhcic scream
Last round I played Spears, Reapers, 18x Grotesques, characters, etc.
2019/12/30 04:02:15
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I recently won an RTT with this against top meta armies (Marines, Imperial soup, Eldar/DE).
Really nice. This is sort of where I am at.
My swap on this would be to swap the vanguard for a spearhead, drop the 2 lictors for a biovore and double up on exocrines for ablative wounds and T1/2.
Deepest Shadow is so good and biovore enables this T1 where the lictors are unlikely to be in position for it at any turn unless they survive combat.
Also with a single stealer unit, broodlord with catalyst and resonance barb might find better value. Character rule helps both BL and OOE up the board and you can always chase OOE with the onslaught neurothrope from Jorm detachment.
Brings is to 1999 with i think better alpha and board presence but I could be wrong.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/30 11:26:10
2019/12/30 16:24:28
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I like resonance barb on the nuerothrope who usually has onslaught. It is the one power that HAS to go off since it likely involves Old One Eye charging and blowing up a key unit like spears or a knight vs staring at them 1 inch away. Casting on a 5 re rolling 1 is almost automatic.
-1 damage is a strat...the warriors usually get +1 cover.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/12/30 17:45:22
2019/12/30 19:17:36
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I love the exocrine, but he's pretty vunerable in this list. I might drop him to fill out the third garg unit to max and drop the levi rippers to get a screening hormagaunt unit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/31 01:34:29
JOIN MY CRUSADE and gain 4000 RT points!
http://www.eternalcrusade.com/account/sign-up/?ref_code=EC-PLCIKYCABW8PG
2019/12/31 03:28:26
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
-The value in the lictors is the ability to ignore overwatch and charge out of reserve. Deepest shadow is nice, and perhaps not as good on lictors as spore mines, but can still be used on them. Spore mines cant do what lictors do, but lictors can do what spore mines do.
-I like one exocrine personally because its a low cost investment. Some games its just going to get ripped off the board immediately by armies with absurd anti tank, oh well its 155 points. Some games however, it will shoot all game and be a major MVP. Having only one also allows it to move around the board without becoming totally useless because of the strat. You can deploy it behind a wall or 42 inches away from a juicy target.
-I'm really only crazy about Kraken broodlords because of their absurd speed. I rather have the reliability of re-roll ones psychic tests and the durability of a 3++.
-Also i moved to LW/BS on the warriors instead of 2x bonesword, much better.
2019/12/31 04:07:13
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
997Turbo wrote: -The value in the lictors is the ability to ignore overwatch and charge out of reserve. Deepest shadow is nice, and perhaps not as good on lictors as spore mines, but can still be used on them. Spore mines cant do what lictors do, but lictors can do what spore mines do.
-I like one exocrine personally because its a low cost investment. Some games its just going to get ripped off the board immediately by armies with absurd anti tank, oh well its 155 points. Some games however, it will shoot all game and be a major MVP. Having only one also allows it to move around the board without becoming totally useless because of the strat. You can deploy it behind a wall or 42 inches away from a juicy target.
-I'm really only crazy about Kraken broodlords because of their absurd speed. I rather have the reliability of re-roll ones psychic tests and the durability of a 3++.
-Also i moved to LW/BS on the warriors instead of 2x bonesword, much better.
So i have been out of the game for six months (real life sucks like that sometimes) so I'm in listening mode instead of delivered wisdom from on high mode.
When i was playing, the need to counter Knight and IG superheavy lists resulted in everybody having the absurd firepower needed to make that Exocrine get shot of the table every time it went second. Has the meta shift + protection from the Malenthrope changed that?
Why are you liking the LW/BS over 2x bonesword? Is there enough melee threat now that LW are useful?
2019/12/31 12:58:29
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
So my flgs is going to be doing an escalation league this year starting in January and I am going to go tyranids for a few different reasons. (1 my flgs has a lot of nids available to purchase for cheap and 2 there are no longer any nid players really there).
I am going to go swarm for this trial, 60 hormagaunts, 30 termagaunts, and 30 gargoyles is my initial idea.
Which brings me to this post. I look at gargoyles and think "5 pts a model, they have some utility use it seems to me" then I look online and people say "absolute hot garbage, pass".
So what's the real issue here? Is it meta based that people don't care for them? I can see vs marines them not being very effective, though at 30 models they dont have to kill to be effective. Move blocking is a thing, as well as deep strike denial. But vs any t3 unit I can see them doing well.
Also what hive fleet really works best for swarms? I was thinking of going custom and doing the 6++/4+++ vs overwatch but am not 100% sure yet.
2019/12/31 13:18:34
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Gargs are great now with the BoB book additions. They really were pretty bad before.
They combined high speed, shooting, and a gimicky melee into an extremely fragile unit that did no damage.
Now however, with the custom hive traits, you can give them -1 to hit in melee and -1 ap on their melee. This makes it more likely for their blinding venom to go off and make them a fairly resistant tarpit unit. If you can get them to charge something and wrap it (not super hard since they have fly) you only have to inflict one wound with the whole unit to get -2 to hit it in melee and immune to being shot. If you then cast the horror on the engaged unit your at -3 to be hit.
Even a squad of ork boys will struggle to do any meaningful damage to them in this situation.
Take an outrider with 2-3 squads of gargs backed up by a flying Hive tyrant and mabey a squad of shrikes for a fairly cheap detachment that can really mess up your opponents plans.
JOIN MY CRUSADE and gain 4000 RT points!
http://www.eternalcrusade.com/account/sign-up/?ref_code=EC-PLCIKYCABW8PG
2019/12/31 13:45:35
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I love the exocrine, but he's pretty vunerable in this list. I might drop him to fill out the third garg unit to max and drop the levi rippers to get a screening hormagaunt unit.
I actually really like this list. I think the exocrine needs to stay, hes basically a cheaper leman russ, and with the +1 to hit can get the exploding hits on 5's, move him and still shoot twice.
I really like the gargoyoles, with blinding venom you could be getting-2 to hit.
Something you may want to try, is to get a few zoanthropes in this detachemnt. SInce they can fly, the could be a solid anvil unit. You can get them in on the charge, they got the -1 to hit, 3++ invul, and can smite whatever they are in CC with and heal up off it.
Also, if you can get a lictor in here somewhere to abosrb/deny overwatch that could certainly be helpful
10000+
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
the 5++ is great it's why I'm taking the Dermic Symbiosis, the big one is the bracket ignoring though
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
