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Kinda hopping the Carnifex goes up to T8 11-12w and 2+ save.

It is about the same size as the Hive Tyrant after all.

 Overread wrote:
It's a change that reflects how much bigger and diverse the army has become that the once king of tough outside of the Hive Tyrant, is now stepping down a bit.

I completely agree with what you've said about the Carnifex and it's place within the Tyranid roster.

But it should still be tougher than a frickin' Rhino!!!

Rhino: T7 W10 Sv3+
Carnifex (now): T7 W8 Sv3+
Carnifex (what it should be): T8 W12 Sv2+ and perhaps with some kind of shrug.

I would have even been happy with no save in the entire 'Dex being higher than 3+ except on the Carnifex. That should have the best armour. Now I fear that with all the big bugs going to 2+, the 'Fex will continue to exist within this limbo state, even if it gets a 2+ save.

I'd be ok with them becoming a unit if they have creeped past them being the frontline battering ram monster of yesteryear.

Well, my Hope is that the Carnifex becomes our Dreadnought monster...keep the 3+, add in a carapace upgrade to 2+ keep all the goofy mods currently available, and build your own. Add in Screamer-killer Plasma as a option, and it's all "good".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh. but drop the price of the base bug...so they can build out without being a "trap"...

Welp, Harpy is back in stock so with luck should have it by end of the week and can see if they've tweaked it and how.

Warriors still out of stock atm though so 2 boxes of those still waiting to be ordered in...

So... odds on 3+ saves for Warriors?

Perhaps a 4+ for Raveners, or some sort of Invul to show their speed?

This is merely my own thoughts, but I kinda like that the Carnifex has single-digit wounds because of the damage table that comes with 10+. A Carnifex will keep fighting on to the bitter end at full effectiveness regardless of how much damage it has suffered while other monsters do feel the effects of injury.

I do think the main problem with the Carnifex isn't that it isn't tough enough (relative to other things in its weight class - classic Dreadnaughts, Wraithlords, and Kans), it just doesn't hit hard enough in melee or shooting to really justify the cost. I think the Crusher Stampede kinda underscores this, as it cranks defense up considerably and Carnifexes still don't see a huge amount of play in it.

 Strat_N8 wrote:
This is merely my own thoughts, but I kinda like that the Carnifex has single-digit wounds because of the damage table that comes with 10+. A Carnifex will keep fighting on to the bitter end at full effectiveness regardless of how much damage it has suffered while other monsters do feel the effects of injury.

I do think the main problem with the Carnifex isn't that it isn't tough enough (relative to other things in its weight class - classic Dreadnaughts, Wraithlords, and Kans), it just doesn't hit hard enough in melee or shooting to really justify the cost. I think the Crusher Stampede kinda underscores this, as it cranks defense up considerably and Carnifexes still don't see a huge amount of play in it.

I’ve actually been using the Carnifex a lot since Crusher Stampede with some good success. I’ll usually play a brood of three Screamer Killers and another brood of some combination of shooty Carnifex. This really makes it tough for your opponent and gives them a headache. It’s not quite the 4-5 marine dread lists, but it still pretty damn effective. And don’t believe the negative replies of “too slow” or “he gets shot off the table.” Yeah that’s true for one maybe two at a time...but 6 to 8...yeah have fun with that.

I agree that the Carnifex should stay under 10 wounds, but I don’t necessarily think the Toughness should be 8. I think 7 is perfectly fine since it’s kinda playing the roll of the sudo marine dread these days. Having the -1D and 5++ is a great start, but if you really want to shake things up, his stats should go back to the olden days of S10 and weapon skills of 7+ (which would translate to 2+) and a 2+ save. That’s what made the Carnifex sooooo brutal back in 2nd and 3rd. This would also be consistent with the lore of ripping Rhinos and Leman Russ tanks in two. His attacks are good at 4, but maybe increasing his base damage from 3 to say 4 would be great too, but not OP. I seriously don’t think the Screamer Killer or Base Monstrous Scything Talons get the respect they deserve.

 nordsturmking wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah I'm less concerned with what we're getting, and more worried about what we're losing.

Tyrannofex to LoW status? Possible.
Hive Guard shooting without LoS? That's gonna be a strat.
Any weapon that isn't part of a specific kit? Gonesky! Say goodbye to Tyrant Deathspitters and Devourers.

I hope we get a new plastic LOW.
I don't mind loosing out of LOS shooting.IMO it sould be in the game except for maybe mortars and in a casual games its often a feels bad situation.
I think we will keep the Deathspitters and Devourers on tyrants and other stuff.


We are already getting alot of stuff, much more 2+ AS, T8, more attacks +3 on the SL.

haruspex:

Spoiler:

I hope this is all true about the Haurspex since I own three!


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 nordsturmking wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah I'm less concerned with what we're getting, and more worried about what we're losing.

Tyrannofex to LoW status? Possible.
Hive Guard shooting without LoS? That's gonna be a strat.
Any weapon that isn't part of a specific kit? Gonesky! Say goodbye to Tyrant Deathspitters and Devourers.

I hope we get a new plastic LOW.

haruspex:

Spoiler:

My bet is on the Dominatrix...Titanic Psychic Bug



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 nordsturmking wrote:
New HT, Swarmlord, Winged HT and Exocrine Data sheet:

Spoiler:

pretty great

Man is this true? Don’t get my hopes up! There are some pretty good Photoshop Wizards out there.

I think anyone expecting more than Single Miniature/Codex/Cards/Dice is setting themselves up for disappointment.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I think anyone expecting more than Single Miniature/Codex/Cards/Dice is setting themselves up for disappointment.

Even Valkrak seemed to indicate that we were getting the Parasite of Mortex + new Gaunts.

That being said, if this is a small release, which signs appear to point to, I think that adds to the speculation that Nids may be the big bad for 10th down the line with a large refresh like Crons got.

 Sasori wrote:
Even Valkrak seemed to indicate that we were getting the Parasite of Mortex + new Gaunts.

He's also been saying that the new Horus Heresy was any day now. Guy's about as reliable as Doomcock.

 Sasori wrote:
That being said, if this is a small release, which signs appear to point to, I think that adds to the speculation that Nids may be the big bad for 10th down the line with a large refresh like Crons got.

Chaos need to be the Big Bad.

Gah. So I am now trying to make a decision...

Haruspex... or Exocrine.

Current lot of things is as follows...

Slayer Flyrant - Twin Boneswords - Synaptic Hive Blades
Foot Tyrant - Scytals, HVC
Swarmlord

6 Warriors - LW & Bonesword, 4 Deathspitters, 2 Barbed Stranglers
6 Warriors - Twin Boneswords, 4 Deathspitters, 2 Venom Cannons - Rapid Adaptation
3 Warriors - 2 x Scytals

Dimachaeron

Tyrannofex - Rupture Cannon
2 Carnifexes - Scytals, Tusked, Spore Cysts

Harpy - Two HVC.

- Planned Additions (not bought yet) -

Venomthropes
Maleceptor


- Just trying to figure if the Exocrine be what I want or a Haruspex. Seeing the new stats for stuff does make me happy...

And I'm leaning toward the Exocrine simply because 2+ save, T8 and that ridiculous gun in the new book.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Haruspex... or Exocrine.

It is nice that that's actually a decision we have to make.

Until the Codex shows up that is and everything that's been bumped to T8/Sv2+ is Land Raider costed...

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Gah. So I am now trying to make a decision...

Haruspex... or Exocrine.

Current lot of things is as follows...

Slayer Flyrant - Twin Boneswords - Synaptic Hive Blades
Foot Tyrant - Scytals, HVC
Swarmlord

6 Warriors - LW & Bonesword, 4 Deathspitters, 2 Barbed Stranglers
6 Warriors - Twin Boneswords, 4 Deathspitters, 2 Venom Cannons - Rapid Adaptation
3 Warriors - 2 x Scytals

Dimachaeron

Tyrannofex - Rupture Cannon
2 Carnifexes - Scytals, Tusked, Spore Cysts

Harpy - Two HVC.

- Planned Additions (not bought yet) -

Venomthropes
Maleceptor


- Just trying to figure if the Exocrine be what I want or a Haruspex. Seeing the new stats for stuff does make me happy...

And I'm leaning toward the Exocrine simply because 2+ save, T8 and that ridiculous gun in the new book.

Magnets are your friends doubly so when a codex is in the horizan..

pinecone77 wrote:

Magnets are your friends doubly so when a codex is in the horizan..

Magnets are the cowards way out.

Ride or die. Ride or die!

For what it is worth the Haruspex and Exocrine are probably one of the easiest creatures to magnetize since the main difference is the head (which is one piece for both) and first pair of limbs. I have 1 magnetized and 1 of each build as-is.

I do think it is probably best to wait before committing to one or the other since there are a lot of unknowns. The biggest one for me is whether the Haruspex will stay as an Elites choice, given the Riptide was shifted from Elites to Heavy Support in the new Tau book and was previously a monster with similar wound count (if greater size overall). As an Elite it has niche benefit of giving another monster in a less congested slot (like the Malceptor) but as a Heavy it will have to compete with almost all of our fire support options.

If you must build one now (pre book), the Exocrine has always been the stronger of the two in each book since they first released so it is probably a safe bet.

more nid leaks/rumors
Synaptic Links are changing to once per game effects that work on every unit within 6" of a Synapse Unit.
- Zoanthropes give 4++ to Synapse and 5++ to non-Synapse.
- Tervigon link gives +2" movement
- All other units have changed Links.

A lot of buffs trigger off the Synapse keyword (Warriors are insane)

Unit Changes:
Swarmlord - Loses Hive Commander and 3++. Gains Chapter Master Re-rolls and gives a unit Obsec.
Hive Tyrant - Captain Re-rolls aura.
Tervigon - +1 to hit for Termagants in range (don't know what). If there is a 15+ model Termagant unit within 1" of her she is untargetable.

Termagants - Devourers are garbage now. Fleshborers go to 18" Assault 1 S5 AP1 D1
Tyranid Warriors - S5/T5 base. Access to -1D strat in all phases. Can get to A4 S8 AP2 D2.

Wargear Changes:
Boneswords - S+2 AP2 D2
Adrenal Glands - +1S/+1Mv
[9:02 AM]
Oh yeah also just for you guys: leviathan gives non-synapse units mini-transhuman (can't be wounded on 2s) and actual synapse units true transhuman

Sounds awesome!


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I have been painting some Tyrant Guard with Bonesabre/ Lashwhip recently in hopes that it would be useful...maybe it will be

I do not like giving up unique and fun mechanics for another rerolls bot. And losing 3++ sucks but doesn't matter as much in a world full of ignore invulnerable saves units/weapons. Not a fan of the new synapse links, but will reserve judgment right now.

Well the leaks are a leaking. They show the cover art for the Codex, so I am guessing it is all done, and the new patrol box is out. A Tyrant, three Warriors and a passel of Gaunts (termas). Looks like a good purchase for getting started, so well done!

 nordsturmking wrote:
New HT, Swarmlord, Winged HT and Exocrine Data sheet:

Spoiler:

pretty great

Swamlord Sabres only being s9 while HT sword is s10 makes no goddamn sense to me

Swarmlord does get 9 attacks and might still deal mortals on 6's to wound. He's still better.

pinecone77 wrote:
Well the leaks are a leaking. They show the cover art for the Codex, so I am guessing it is all done, and the new patrol box is out. A Tyrant, three Warriors and a passel of Gaunts (termas). Looks like a good purchase for getting started, so well done!

Book including cover have been done for a very long time

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:


Swamlord Sabres only being s9 while HT sword is s10 makes no goddamn sense to me

The bonesword is larger than the Sabres, a larger and heavier weapon will likely carry more strength.

Given the leaks/rumors with CSM and how you can no longer can equip units with options not in the box, does this mean HT with quad devourers will no longer be valid?

It is a possibility, specially for the flyrant.

But GW is consistently inconsistent, so who knows what will actually happen.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Given the leaks/rumors with CSM and how you can no longer can equip units with options not in the box, does this mean HT with quad devourers will no longer be valid?

I can almost guarantee 100% that it will not have any options in the box. Which is really sad, but at this point I would be shocked if it was the other way around.

the datasheet leaks specifically show them using barbed stranglers and heavy venom canons only for ranged.

It looks like either form can take Monstrous scyth talons and/or M Boneswords.

FHT gets MRC on his feet with one other option

Walkrant gets 2 options but likely not double ranged.