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Timeshadow wrote:
For my Hive Fleet Psythe (Psychic Scythe) I'm thinking a strong Kronos influence for my Hive tyrants and backfield guns with a sprinkling of Behemoith for my first striking genestealers ect so they can re roll assault.

Are you running them? Would not a bigger tyreath range be better then the re-roll?

Ok so let's talk about Hive Fleets. I'm having difficulty figuring out which ones to use (except for Kronos. Re-rolling 1's when stationary and the psychic denial is just way too good right now)

In my dreams, I can have a Kronos detachment (probably a spearhead but hopefully a battalion) PLUS a brigade of something else.

BUT WHAT ELSE?

I do like GSC for their alternate deployment options, but I really want to benefit from these awesome hive fleet adaptions!

In my dreams, I would have a perfect deep strike/alternative deployment list, where nothing is on the table that can be targeted except for screening units and backline gun units like exocrines/hive guard.

So clearly, Jormungdr is less beneficial for the first turn alpha strike protection (since they would be in reserve) but to ditch the Trygon taxi, I think I have to use that hive fleet for the alternate deployment CP for my gene stealers. But having that cover is really important for later turns. I just don't see it benefitting Genestealers very much because they're almost always making a charge move/advancing, or both.

I think Kraken is a great option if my units start on the board. You're not protected from the alpha strike, but you move SO FREAKING FAST. That plus swarmy means that you MOST CERTAINLY are where you want to be. Always. And it has the added benefit of being able to fall back and charge, so if you can manage to tie yourself up, then you're really cooking for the next turn! My worry is that you have to completely surround a model, and then not kill that model (which is a problem since the opponent chooses which models to remove).

Behemoth speaks for itself. I think it is the "I want to deep strike and make a 9" charge" army. Or just generally make longer charges. But I struggle to see this working out in light of all of the screening units. If I kill the screening unit, then re-rolling my charge distance isn't really that important. And usually, the screening unit isn't worth as much as my unit.

What do you guys think? How are you getting your bugs to the action? Even with a good shooting backline (exocrines, hive guard, biovores, carnifex, etc) I feel like we really have so much stuff that can (and should) get up in the opponent's face.

Well my armies so far have generally consisted of a forward deapstrike force and a rear artillery force.

Forward force is all my deepstrikers 1st turn assaulters such as Swarmlord, Genestealers, Trygon/Prime, Tyrannocytes ect... This will have the reroll charge adaptation

Rear force would be my biovores, exocrene, Malanthrope, Hive guard...Though now I'm going to include at least one Hive Tyrant or nerothrope warlord to get the sweet anti psyker action from Kronos.

I may add a third hive fleet to get the extra resilience of cover for my bubble wrap and for more options but it depends on wether I have the points for it or not.

Well I am really liking the mega anti psycher Fleet. I may go with a Supreme command of 3 Winged tyrants with a Relic or two.....just might take a myasma cannon. Swooping down on a smite spam AM...that seems like a very nice afternoon.

One thing I keep seeing people misunderstanding (Not in this thread, specifically) is basic charge, pile in and consolidate rules, and how these apply to Hormagaunts. I've made some pics to illustrate the strength of the 6" pile in.

The world serpent fleet looks like an amazing beta striker...Venothropes give -1 to hit, Jormungandr gives always cover...sturdy!

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
One thing I keep seeing people misunderstanding (Not in this thread, specifically) is basic charge, pile in and consolidate rules, and how these apply to Hormagaunts. I've made some pics to illustrate the strength of the 6" pile in.

Spoiler:

That is really nicely done, and could be required reading for assault armies. Thanks for the effort. A+

That illustration is great and really highlights why Hormagants are worth it in 8th edition.

It's also worth remembering that 20 genestealers = 240 points... 60 hormagants = 300 points.

Hormagants are the more flexible unit. Genstealers are super vulnerable to beta strike, or fall back shoot.

Genestealers are a great unit, to be sure. But I can't imagine a tyranids list without hormagants.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
One thing I keep seeing people misunderstanding (Not in this thread, specifically) is basic charge, pile in and consolidate rules, and how these apply to Hormagaunts. I've made some pics to illustrate the strength of the 6" pile in.

Spoiler:

If you don't mind i would like to add this to the op when the codex drops and it gets changed to reflect tactics. Would you mind PMing me however you would like it set up and i will get it on there for the good of all.

So what're folks' thoughts on the Venomthropes?

Assuming the rumors are correct, seems like it'll be ~93 points for a min sized unit that at least starts off giving all your units the Shrouds. The extended range on a 6-strong unit seems sort of appealing....but it also seems like a really quick way to be back down to the 3" range.

 Jin wrote:
So what're folks' thoughts on the Venomthropes?

Assuming the rumors are correct, seems like it'll be ~93 points for a min sized unit that at least starts off giving all your units the Shrouds. The extended range on a 6-strong unit seems sort of appealing....but it also seems like a really quick way to be back down to the 3" range.

It is cheaper to buy a malanthrope. If you (understandably) want the larger coverage, it is cheaper to buy two malanthropes. There is nothing else to say.

 jifel wrote:

 Jin wrote:
So what're folks' thoughts on the Venomthropes?

Assuming the rumors are correct, seems like it'll be ~93 points for a min sized unit that at least starts off giving all your units the Shrouds. The extended range on a 6-strong unit seems sort of appealing....but it also seems like a really quick way to be back down to the 3" range.

It is cheaper to buy a malanthrope. If you (understandably) want the larger coverage, it is cheaper to buy two malanthropes. There is nothing else to say.

Yup. A degrading shround on not particularly tough or fast models or shroud and synapse on a 9 wound character.

Il take the one that cant be targetted please.

 jifel wrote:

 Jin wrote:
So what're folks' thoughts on the Venomthropes?

Assuming the rumors are correct, seems like it'll be ~93 points for a min sized unit that at least starts off giving all your units the Shrouds. The extended range on a 6-strong unit seems sort of appealing....but it also seems like a really quick way to be back down to the 3" range.

It is cheaper to buy a malanthrope. If you (understandably) want the larger coverage, it is cheaper to buy two malanthropes. There is nothing else to say.

Do we know if Venomthropes are still the same points?
Also we don't know if Malanthropes will still stay as cheap as they are after Chapter Approved comes out.

They are not cheap. They are often 90 points for only -1 for a few units. Their movement is bad.

I dont like Venomthropes, even if the Malanthrope is 110pts i would still take it over Venomthropes.

 Sim-Life wrote:

 jifel wrote:

 Jin wrote:
So what're folks' thoughts on the Venomthropes?

Assuming the rumors are correct, seems like it'll be ~93 points for a min sized unit that at least starts off giving all your units the Shrouds. The extended range on a 6-strong unit seems sort of appealing....but it also seems like a really quick way to be back down to the 3" range.

It is cheaper to buy a malanthrope. If you (understandably) want the larger coverage, it is cheaper to buy two malanthropes. There is nothing else to say.

Do we know if Venomthropes are still the same points?
Also we don't know if Malanthropes will still stay as cheap as they are after Chapter Approved comes out.

If you think chapter approved is going to mention anything forgeworld I think your out of your mind. GW proper never, NEVER, acknowledges that FW exists.

GW stated it will include FW adjustments.

 Lance845 wrote:

If you don't mind i would like to add this to the op when the codex drops and it gets changed to reflect tactics. Would you mind PMing me however you would like it set up and i will get it on there for the good of all.

Feel free to just quote it or whatever is easiest.

I made it to be distributed, please use it.

I will say I must be counted among the “don’t understand pile in and consolidation” group, so thank you for the demonstration Traceoftoxin. Coming back to this edition I do miss a lot of the illustrations the 3rd edition book had.

Each "unit" follows the Fight phase rules, on page 182

You pick 1 unit and follow these steps for that 1 unit, if you have 2 units against the same enemy, only 1 can pile in and that same one can only consolidate.

Your 1st unit Piles in, fights, then Consolidates. If that unit died the 2nd unit doesnt get to do anything at all. If that unit did not die, then you 2nd unit can Fight... "pile in, fight, consolidate"

Each phase is a VERY strick and has a list what you can and cant do and each of these "Actions" is only for "1 unit at a time"

The one unit has to fully resolve the step before another unit can.

Note* Your allowed to Consolidate into another combat, you can not fight again "Unless you have a rule that lets you" BUT the enemy can fight you still. Remember you can fight anyone your within 1" of in the fight phaes as long as A: You didnt fight yet and B: If you charged for that turn you can only fight those you target for a charge.
Note 2* You can multi-charge, even with 1 model unit, as long as you can get within 1" of the multiple units you are counted as being in combat with them, if not move to the unit you can get into combat with, but they get to fire overwatch fora ll units that are not in combat, and can fire it unlimited amount of times, so if you fail they can shoot again.

So Hormagants has a 6" consolidate, that means they can tie up other units about 7" away (you only need to get within 1") but remember you have to "move closer to the closest enemy unit" and not in any direction you want.


It you still are confused, look up Miniwargaming video of 8th combat rules.

That’s quite clear, thank you. I just didn’t really apply any strategic thought to the ways you could legally throw wrenches into your opponents plans with consolidations is the crux of my problem lol.

Yep, its a tactic they want in the game to punish poor placements.

Amish, remember charging units can always activate, even if the unit the charged is already dead!

Yeah, the fight phase is the most craziest for sure, easy to miss a detail here or there.

Absolutely. I've had to check it a bunch of times since the edition dropped. Just now starting to get it down pat.

So many old charging rules I've had to forget.

Preview of strategems are up.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/11/02/codex-tyranids-preview-stratagems/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Termagants "40-strong block"

OP updated

 jifel wrote:

 Jin wrote:
So what're folks' thoughts on the Venomthropes?

Assuming the rumors are correct, seems like it'll be ~93 points for a min sized unit that at least starts off giving all your units the Shrouds. The extended range on a 6-strong unit seems sort of appealing....but it also seems like a really quick way to be back down to the 3" range.

It is cheaper to buy a malanthrope. If you (understandably) want the larger coverage, it is cheaper to buy two malanthropes. There is nothing else to say.

I've seen a big point increase hinted for the Malanthrope. But you have at least a month to enjoy the cheap ones.

I've have been thinking about the following list:

Command detachment
HQ: Hive tyrant with deathspitters
HQ: Hive tyrant with deathspitters
HQ: Hive tyrant with deathspitters

Battalion Detachment
HQ: Hive tyrant with deathspitters
HQ: Hive tyrant with deathspitters

HQ: swarmlord
TRANSPORT: tyrannocyte

ELITE: tyrant guard x5
TRANSPORT: tyrannocyte

TROOPS: rippers
TROOPS: rippers
TROOPS: rippers
TROOPS: rippers

HEAVY SUPPORT: 1 biovore
HEAVY SUPPORT: 1 biovore
HEAVY SUPPORT: 1 biovore

Using the +1 coversave ymargl bla bla....

Deploy the rippers and biovores. The rest drops out of the sky with the tyrant guards in the middle with a 2+ save and catalyst if it works. Don't play a lot of tournaments that allow forgeworld but I could switch a single tyrant with a malanthrope + tyrannocyte. Could also switch the biovores with regular spore mines so that the could deploy outside 12 inch of the enemy to make sure the mark a nice drop spot for the tyrant bomb. would like to try this...