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 Insectum7 wrote:
Deep striking Tyrants looks pretty juicy, too bad I'm not a huge fan of the model.

The adaptive biology traits are cool too. Makes me wonder what other buffs are going to be available, and how that might make picking a Hive Fleet harder. I can't say that I'm into the idea of combining fleets, my models will be painted in the same scheme, so they will play the same scheme.

I am also not a big fan of the beetle like HT. I spent a bunch of time hunting down forgeworld tyrants to use instead.

I also have no interest in combining fleets. Keeping track of multiple synapse webs sounds awful.

 Lance845 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Deep striking Tyrants looks pretty juicy, too bad I'm not a huge fan of the model.

The adaptive biology traits are cool too. Makes me wonder what other buffs are going to be available, and how that might make picking a Hive Fleet harder. I can't say that I'm into the idea of combining fleets, my models will be painted in the same scheme, so they will play the same scheme.

I am also not a big fan of the beetle like HT. I spent a bunch of time hunting down forgeworld tyrants to use instead.

I also have no interest in combining fleets. Keeping track of multiple synapse webs sounds awful.

I mean maybe. You could run a supreme command, and that detachment would never really worry about it's own synapse coverage.

 Marmatag wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Deep striking Tyrants looks pretty juicy, too bad I'm not a huge fan of the model.

The adaptive biology traits are cool too. Makes me wonder what other buffs are going to be available, and how that might make picking a Hive Fleet harder. I can't say that I'm into the idea of combining fleets, my models will be painted in the same scheme, so they will play the same scheme.

I am also not a big fan of the beetle like HT. I spent a bunch of time hunting down forgeworld tyrants to use instead.

I also have no interest in combining fleets. Keeping track of multiple synapse webs sounds awful.

I mean maybe. You could run a supreme command, and that detachment would never really worry about it's own synapse coverage.

While true they would also be providing synapse for nobody else.

I think of list build not unlike building a deck in MTG. In a 60 card deck you want just a little bit more than 20 mana cards. A little bit extra, or a couple ways to ensure you find the mana you need.

When I build a nid list I need to build in a certain number of synapse units. There has to be a ratio so that I can ensure I have that coverage and that my enemy can't just target my synapse because its inefficient.

Now you have a 1500-2000 point list. And you have to build that ratio TWICE within those point restrictions because the synapse is mutually exclusive. ugh...

Lovely buffs for Hive Tyrants. These things should be tough wrecking machines. Me is happy,

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
What is the purpose of the Mawloc?

You can pop up and maybe do a few mortal wounds to one or two units, then what?

You can't shoot or charge. So you will probably get destroyed the next turn.

I feel I'm missing something.

If they bunker up you could get 4-5 units. Eldar, 2 units of Dark Reapers with a Warlock is a perfect example of why Mawlocs are good. Not only did you kill a couple guys and wounded the Warlock, but now they need to spend 300pts shooting at your 100pt model or die next turn. Or 4 units of Havocs, etc... killing 4-5 SM will get its points back and waste their shooting.

Edit: Grammar

I still feel there is nothing the Mawloc can do that the Trygon can't do better.
I guess the Mawloc is cheap.

Or at least the Mawloc is more at the mercy of good dice roles and bad enemy placement.

 Lance845 wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Deep striking Tyrants looks pretty juicy, too bad I'm not a huge fan of the model.

The adaptive biology traits are cool too. Makes me wonder what other buffs are going to be available, and how that might make picking a Hive Fleet harder. I can't say that I'm into the idea of combining fleets, my models will be painted in the same scheme, so they will play the same scheme.

I am also not a big fan of the beetle like HT. I spent a bunch of time hunting down forgeworld tyrants to use instead.

I also have no interest in combining fleets. Keeping track of multiple synapse webs sounds awful.

I mean maybe. You could run a supreme command, and that detachment would never really worry about it's own synapse coverage.

While true they would also be providing synapse for nobody else.

I think of list build not unlike building a deck in MTG. In a 60 card deck you want just a little bit more than 20 mana cards. A little bit extra, or a couple ways to ensure you find the mana you need.

When I build a nid list I need to build in a certain number of synapse units. There has to be a ratio so that I can ensure I have that coverage and that my enemy can't just target my synapse because its inefficient.

Now you have a 1500-2000 point list. And you have to build that ratio TWICE within those point restrictions because the synapse is mutually exclusive. ugh...

Well I mean let's be real here for 2 seconds, because we can technically bring imperial guard along for the ride, any competitive tyranid list is going to feature plasma scions, taurox primes, and probably manticores. Because, 8th edition is the guard edition, so why not?

 Marmatag wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Deep striking Tyrants looks pretty juicy, too bad I'm not a huge fan of the model.

The adaptive biology traits are cool too. Makes me wonder what other buffs are going to be available, and how that might make picking a Hive Fleet harder. I can't say that I'm into the idea of combining fleets, my models will be painted in the same scheme, so they will play the same scheme.

I am also not a big fan of the beetle like HT. I spent a bunch of time hunting down forgeworld tyrants to use instead.

I also have no interest in combining fleets. Keeping track of multiple synapse webs sounds awful.

I mean maybe. You could run a supreme command, and that detachment would never really worry about it's own synapse coverage.

While true they would also be providing synapse for nobody else.

I think of list build not unlike building a deck in MTG. In a 60 card deck you want just a little bit more than 20 mana cards. A little bit extra, or a couple ways to ensure you find the mana you need.

When I build a nid list I need to build in a certain number of synapse units. There has to be a ratio so that I can ensure I have that coverage and that my enemy can't just target my synapse because its inefficient.

Now you have a 1500-2000 point list. And you have to build that ratio TWICE within those point restrictions because the synapse is mutually exclusive. ugh...

Well I mean let's be real here for 2 seconds, because we can technically bring imperial guard along for the ride, any competitive tyranid list is going to feature plasma scions, taurox primes, and probably manticores. Because, 8th edition is the guard edition, so why not?

I won't be doing that at all. But lets go with that idea anyway.

So, trying to fit 2 hive fleets along with a GSC and a Guard detachment.... Maintaining potentially 2 synapse webs.... nope. Not going to happen. At that point it's impossible to do much of anything with the actual tyranids which means it's not a tyranid list and not part of this tactics thread. I would probably be of the opinion that Nids + GSC belongs here. Nids + GSC + AM probably belongs over in the GSC tactics for the most part because at that point were just a supplement to the GSC forces.

I think Nids on their own have the potential to be competitive in tournaments.

In particular I think Jormungdr is going to be a stand out because of the flexibility it offers between matches. A lot of each game can be decided by turn 1 and Jor offers opportunities, along with other generic command point benefits, not built into your list to pick and choose who, how many, and where they get deployed to maximize against opponent lists, table set up, and game type.

If you are bringing 2 synapse webs, have one Kronos backline with long ranged weapons and a malanthrope.

Your main force can maintain the Norn Crown, that makes the 'don't have to target the closest enemy' 30" range I belive. But rumours have been wrong before. But if the norn crown helps you maintain a synapse web you could use that for you non-backline.

That's a decent question, though. Even including a Hive Tyrant or two, as Kronos, alongside some GSC would be worthwhile to include this now massive psychic disruption, while still allowing you access to imperial psykers if you were so inclined.

How interesting.

 dan2026 wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
What is the purpose of the Mawloc?

You can pop up and maybe do a few mortal wounds to one or two units, then what?

You can't shoot or charge. So you will probably get destroyed the next turn.

I feel I'm missing something.

If they bunker up you could get 4-5 units. Eldar, 2 units of Dark Reapers with a Warlock is a perfect example of why Mawlocs are good. Not only did you kill a couple guys and wounded the Warlock, but now they need to spend 300pts shooting at your 100pt model or die next turn. Or 4 units of Havocs, etc... killing 4-5 SM will get its points back and waste their shooting.

Edit: Grammar

I still feel there is nothing the Mawloc can do that the Trygon can't do better.
I guess the Mawloc is cheap.

Or at least the Mawloc is more at the mercy of good dice roles and bad enemy placement.

The Mawloc (especially a few of them) will directly impact a players deployment. It really punishes spreading out to deny deep strikers (the 9" denial zones) because you can fit a Mawloc into these relatively big gaps.

If a Mawlocs does 2-4 mortal wounds, happy days. They are also very cheap tough wounds.

I can't wait to fight my friends Tyranid army, sounds like it'll be a lot of fun especially given the new powers available. I'm not quite sure how I feel about the tyranids being able to massively disrupt the psychic phase, but it's their thing fluff wise.

I especially like the special cannon that ignores invulnerable saves, gives me hope that Necrons might get something like that.

The whole “allies doesn’t belong in this thread” talk is hopefully something that doesn’t become a sticking point like it did early in 8th.

There is no “right place” for Tyranids + GSC + AM. I get the idea that maybe GSC is the best place because they’re the linking faction, but imperial soup players have the same problem, as do Chaos soup players.

If you have something to add about the tactics involved, by all means do. If you don’t, please just bear with the people who actually would like to discuss those tactics, as saying “go to the other thread” is just going to make them post over there, where other people will want to say the same thing. Allies are a valid choice whether you want to be a purist or not.

Interestingly, what is probably going to turn me away from Nids + AM is the 3 source limit (for most competitive events) at 2k.

I like Leman Russes as much as the next guy, but pound for pound (relative points, durability and offensive output), the dakkafex isn’t that much worse. If the tank commander is an 9/10 infantry killer, then the dakkafex is like a 7.5 or 8/10. I think having Hive Fleet flexibility for shooty units vs assaulty units is more important. Now, if you mean the plasma tank commanders, different story. But exocrines with boosted damage and re-rolling 1’s to hit....I’m really not all that sad. Hive guard shooting twice is really good. Re-rolling 1’s to hit.

I think anything Guard can do, we can do pretty well. Except bring 5+ save models for 3 points. Womp.

 Marmatag wrote:

Well I mean let's be real here for 2 seconds, because we can technically bring imperial guard along for the ride, any competitive tyranid list is going to feature plasma scions, taurox primes, and probably manticores. Because, 8th edition is the guard edition, so why not?

Yeah... I hope not. Not to mention the styles of play would be really different between those armies. The big annoyance with Guard is that it just sits still and shoots a ton. But I see effective Tyranids being loaded with shock assault en-masse. I can see the draw of putting IG artillery in there, but I'm not sure it will be worthwhile to spend the effort getting IG artillery, when the native Nid shooting is getting better.

And while Scions are nice and all, I think masses of Devilgaunts deep striking and potentially firing twice is going to pull its own weight.

Is anyone else seeing the value in Kraken. 3d6 advance. ON genestealers, brood lord, hormagaunts, already base 8" plus 3d6 +2d6 charge, thats a lot of range. Hormies can consolidate 6". You don't even need trygon tunnels. use those for your devil gaunts to shoot in the flanks.

Furthermore, you can fallback and RECHARGE the same turn, which means if your locked in combat, you can breakoff recharge and attack first.

Am i missing something.

Dynas wrote:
Is anyone else seeing the value in Kraken. 3d6 advance. ON genestealers, brood lord, hormagaunts, already base 8" plus 3d6 +2d6 charge, thats a lot of range. Hormies can consolidate 6". You don't even need trygon tunnels. use those for your devil gaunts to shoot in the flanks.

Furthermore, you can fallback and RECHARGE the same turn, which means if your locked in combat, you can breakoff recharge and attack first.

Am i missing something.

Yes, you are missing the stratagem:

'Stratagem: Opportunistic Advance (1CP)
Use in the Movement Phase. Choose a Kraken unit that does not have the Fly keyword. When Advancing you can double number you roll when determining how much to add to the unit's Movemnt characteristic.'

Particurarly good with genestealers small-arms-lead alergy.

Edit: Come to think of it. You people who debate the 2 x synapse networks:

How about: Kronos backline long range with a malanthrope for synapse.

But for the rest of your army use Kraken broodlords and genestealers. Those do not need synapse. Sounds like fun. :-)

It's 3d6 pick the highest, not 3d6.

Dynas wrote:
Is anyone else seeing the value in Kraken. 3d6 advance. ON genestealers, brood lord, hormagaunts, already base 8" plus 3d6 +2d6 charge, thats a lot of range. Hormies can consolidate 6". You don't even need trygon tunnels. use those for your devil gaunts to shoot in the flanks.

Furthermore, you can fallback and RECHARGE the same turn, which means if your locked in combat, you can breakoff recharge and attack first.

Am i missing something.

It's 3d6 and pick the highest.

With regards to allying IG, keep in mind that shadows in the warp affects non-tyranids.

Then I misunderstood you Dynas. I asumed you had the choose hieghest as implisit in your reasoning.

stil good though. An averadge threath range of 25" on a genestealer.

I just made life decision level mistakes getting some new bugs, and equal numbers of custom resin bases. Rebasing is worth it if you're spending 15 minutes in the movement phase every turn.

Also, I didn't mean to open pandora's box regarding guard in the list. It's just a pain point for me since I do not want to play imperial guard, like at all. I'll leave it alone.

One thing i'm really liking is the Ignore Invul HVC relic.

D6 S9 3D shots that Ignore Invuls, on Kronos so you dont move and get re-rolls of 1. Meaning you are 2+ re-roll 1's, us a CP to get 4+ shots and say "bye bye Mortarion/Magnus"

I like Biovores, and having a Kronos Tyrant in back helping them with a gun like that for Psychic support and a Malanthrope.

My idea was dedicated shooting that basically ignore all armor and Invuls with insane DSing melee and turn 1 charge support.

I think i'm doing 2 HT now.... they keep getting better and better, 24 S6 shots, flying, if takes wound +1T and -1 to damage.

IDK, so many options i want to do now.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
One thing i'm really liking is the Ignore Invul HVC relic.

D6 S9 3D shots that Ignore Invuls, on Kronos so you dont move and get re-rolls of 1. Meaning you are 2+ re-roll 1's, us a CP to get 4+ shots and say "bye bye Mortarion/Magnus"

I like Biovores, and having a Kronos Tyrant in back helping them with a gun like that for Psychic support and a Malanthrope.

My idea was dedicated shooting that basically ignore all armor and Invuls with insane DSing melee and turn 1 charge support.

I think i'm doing 2 HT now.... they keep getting better and better, 24 S6 shots, flying, if takes wound +1T and -1 to damage.

IDK, so many options i want to do now.

How are you hitting on 2's? Even our hive tyrants have a BS of 3+.

And I mean, don't get me wrong that's pretty good against most things, but it's only -1 AP. So Mortarion and Magnus are taking a 4+ armor save. For Magnus, that is substantially worse than a 3++ re-rolling 1's, but for Mortarion, that's just the same thing as his 4++. No actual difference.

I like the hive tyrants for dakka that can't be alpha struck, but they're a lot more expensive than Carnifex. I'm thinking maybe I just grab 3 Carnifex instead of 2 Flyrants....plus I don't think I want to do Gorgon, which is the only way to get that +1 T relic. Making the hive tyrant T8 is REALLY nice though. And I guess their 4++ and more wounds is better than the carnifex....hmm will have to think on that one. On the down side, they do degrade and likely aren't -1 to hit...

Is it just me who is in love with the heavy venom cannon? Tyrants and fexes. Does not this make carnifexes the best dreadnought?

Luke: The T8 tyrant. You can combine it with tyrant guards. Have them move up and then drop him into them. If you invest in your T8 tyrant there is a stratgem that heals it for 1d3 if you are invested in it.

 luke1705 wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
One thing i'm really liking is the Ignore Invul HVC relic.

D6 S9 3D shots that Ignore Invuls, on Kronos so you dont move and get re-rolls of 1. Meaning you are 2+ re-roll 1's, us a CP to get 4+ shots and say "bye bye Mortarion/Magnus"

I like Biovores, and having a Kronos Tyrant in back helping them with a gun like that for Psychic support and a Malanthrope.

My idea was dedicated shooting that basically ignore all armor and Invuls with insane DSing melee and turn 1 charge support.

I think i'm doing 2 HT now.... they keep getting better and better, 24 S6 shots, flying, if takes wound +1T and -1 to damage.

IDK, so many options i want to do now.

How are you hitting on 2's? Even our hive tyrants have a BS of 3+.

And I mean, don't get me wrong that's pretty good against most things, but it's only -1 AP. So Mortarion and Magnus are taking a 4+ armor save. For Magnus, that is substantially worse than a 3++ re-rolling 1's, but for Mortarion, that's just the same thing as his 4++. No actual difference.

I like the hive tyrants for dakka that can't be alpha struck, but they're a lot more expensive than Carnifex. I'm thinking maybe I just grab 3 Carnifex instead of 2 Flyrants....plus I don't think I want to do Gorgon, which is the only way to get that +1 T relic. Making the hive tyrant T8 is REALLY nice though. And I guess their 4++ and more wounds is better than the carnifex....hmm will have to think on that one. On the down side, they do degrade and likely aren't -1 to hit...

I meant BS 3+ sorry onlying missing on 2's is pretty darn good.

Also DSing with a 4++ 12 Wounds and Psychic powers is worth the cost i feel.

Be careful you're not crossing your tactics and relics.

Some of the traits you mentioned are Gorgon, with Kronos tactics, and I think Hydra relics.

That said, my core list will have:

Battalion
30x Hormagants
30x Hormagants
30x Dakkagants
1x Swarmlord
1x Flying Hive Tyrant

Spearhead
1x Trygon
1x Tyrannofex
1x 2xCarnifex
1x Neurothrope

I honestly have enough points to make a supreme command and spam some smite, too.

 Marmatag wrote:
Be careful you're not crossing your tactics and relics.

Some of the traits you mentioned are Gorgon, with Kronos tactics, and I think Hydra relics.

That said, my core list will have:

Battalion
30x Hormagants
30x Hormagants
30x Dakkagants
1x Swarmlord
1x Flying Hive Tyrant

Spearhead
1x Trygon
1x Tyrannofex
1x 2xCarnifex
1x Neurothrope

I honestly have enough points to make a supreme command and spam some smite, too.

I'll most likely do 3 Fleets and Detachments. Now its just what works best for me, lots of play testing.....

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Be careful you're not crossing your tactics and relics.

Some of the traits you mentioned are Gorgon, with Kronos tactics, and I think Hydra relics.

That said, my core list will have:

Battalion
30x Hormagants
30x Hormagants
30x Dakkagants
1x Swarmlord
1x Flying Hive Tyrant

Spearhead
1x Trygon
1x Tyrannofex
1x 2xCarnifex
1x Neurothrope

I honestly have enough points to make a supreme command and spam some smite, too.

I'll most likely do 3 Fleets and Detachments. Now its just what works best for me, lots of play testing.....

What're you thinking?

 luke1705 wrote:
The whole “allies doesn’t belong in this thread” talk is hopefully something that doesn’t become a sticking point like it did early in 8th.

There is no “right place” for Tyranids + GSC + AM. I get the idea that maybe GSC is the best place because they’re the linking faction, but imperial soup players have the same problem, as do Chaos soup players.

If you have something to add about the tactics involved, by all means do. If you don’t, please just bear with the people who actually would like to discuss those tactics, as saying “go to the other thread” is just going to make them post over there, where other people will want to say the same thing. Allies are a valid choice whether you want to be a purist or not.

Interestingly, what is probably going to turn me away from Nids + AM is the 3 source limit (for most competitive events) at 2k.

I like Leman Russes as much as the next guy, but pound for pound (relative points, durability and offensive output), the dakkafex isn’t that much worse. If the tank commander is an 9/10 infantry killer, then the dakkafex is like a 7.5 or 8/10. I think having Hive Fleet flexibility for shooty units vs assaulty units is more important. Now, if you mean the plasma tank commanders, different story. But exocrines with boosted damage and re-rolling 1’s to hit....I’m really not all that sad. Hive guard shooting twice is really good. Re-rolling 1’s to hit.

I think anything Guard can do, we can do pretty well. Except bring 5+ save models for 3 points. Womp.

Im not opposed to talking soup tactics here as long as tyranids are actually a relevent part of the soup. But if your army is primarily guard or lime 90% guard/gsc then what relevance does your 2-3 nid units really have?

I’m going to be aiming for a brigade in most of my lists, those stratagems are all just too juicy. Thinking something like this:

Kraken fleet

HQ
Hive Tyrant
Broodlord
Old One Eye

Troops
Mix of Stealers, Horms, Devilgants and Rippers

Elites
Lictors

FA
Gargoyles

HS
Biovores
Dakkafexes

A very melee heavy list, relying on the winged stuff to get in their face T1, lictors to provide a spawn point for the genestealers to get a potential alpha strike. Kraken trait and stratagem lets me get my gants up the board quick for a second wave, along with old one eye and his posse.

For my Hive Fleet Psythe (Psychic Scythe) I'm thinking a strong Kronos influence for my Hive tyrants and backfield guns with a sprinkling of Behemoith for my first striking genestealers ect so they can re roll assault.

Looks like I can finally bring my 2nd edition tyranid army out of retirement after years now.
While it's locked to options mostly due to being old models, it's still viable I guess.
Will be fun seeing a 100% metal army used again too as I love it, but until now it's been largely unusable due to having to spam certain newer units previously.