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 Lance845 wrote:
Well then those Tourneys are not actually following the rules. Once you declare what your doing your supposed to be doing it. It's like chess. You put your hand on the piece your moving that piece.

Has nothing to do with tourneys. Has to do with being a good sport. If someone changes their mind before finishing an action, are you going to be the dick who tells them they have to do it? Gonna waste 15 minutes of a game to call a TO and force them to roll those dice or forfeit?

That's a great way to get a 0 on sportsmanship.

Marma was just pointing out that the typical sportsman like thing to do (Allow someone to change their decision before the dice roll) can be stretched to the point of problems.

No one is saying that a TO won't come over and tell them they have to roll a 1 dice if you argue it. We're just saying that unless you make it very clear what the order of operations is ahead of time, there is a good opportunity for a clash.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Aside;

Pathogenic slime does not have to be used before firing. RAW you could use it after you determine saves, then double the damage after they roll poorly.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Well then those Tourneys are not actually following the rules. Once you declare what your doing your supposed to be doing it. It's like chess. You put your hand on the piece your moving that piece.

Has nothing to do with tourneys. Has to do with being a good sport. If someone changes their mind before finishing an action, are you going to be the dick who tells them they have to do it? Gonna waste 15 minutes of a game to call a TO and force them to roll those dice or forfeit?

That's a great way to get a 0 on sportsmanship.

Apply all those same arguments to Chess.

Is it bad sportsmanship to expect that people playing in a professional/strict environment keep their hands off their pieces unless they intend to use them? Or is it good sportsmanship to understand the consequences of your actions and follow through with them if you happen to have made a mistake.

Marma was just pointing out that the typical sportsman like thing to do (Allow someone to change their decision before the dice roll) can be stretched to the point of problems.

No one is saying that a TO won't come over and tell them they have to roll a 1 dice if you argue it. We're just saying that unless you make it very clear what the order of operations is ahead of time, there is a good opportunity for a clash.

The idea that the sporting thing to do is to be super nice and forgiving of all mistakes in what is supposed to be a tactical and strategic game is odd since it places NONE of the sportsmanship responsibility on the person who is making tactical errors. I am not saying how I would treat it. I am super forgiving in my games. I am saying good sportsmanship swings both ways and there should be no take-backsies if your playing in a truly sporting manner.

Gents - please take discussion of 'take backs' or not to the appropriate sub-forum.

edit - removed, will take it somewhere else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

Pathogenic slime does not have to be used before firing. RAW you could use it after you determine saves, then double the damage after they roll poorly.

That is a good catch. I can't know if that is intended, but right now that makes it very, very good.

I can't see a tyranid list without a unit of dakkagants right now.

Welp, one of the heads for carns gives em BS3+. Also Genestealers can take either a powersword or fleshhooks for every four models in a unit.

Edit: and apparently OOE is now 9 wounds
Edit again: I figured out how to do images!

 Marmatag wrote:
edit - removed, will take it somewhere else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

Pathogenic slime does not have to be used before firing. RAW you could use it after you determine saves, then double the damage after they roll poorly.

That is a good catch. I can't know if that is intended, but right now that makes it very, very good.

I can't see a tyranid list without a unit of dakkagants right now.

Can't use it on gaunts. Only monsters.

I'm looking foward to using Caustic Blood Termagants to screen Berzerkers..... Add in Leviathan for lol...

 Zimko wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
edit - removed, will take it somewhere else.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

Pathogenic slime does not have to be used before firing. RAW you could use it after you determine saves, then double the damage after they roll poorly.

That is a good catch. I can't know if that is intended, but right now that makes it very, very good.

I can't see a tyranid list without a unit of dakkagants right now.

Can't use it on gaunts. Only monsters.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Still Dakkafex is 24 shots. A good use case.

So, looks like Kronos Tyranids are more effective vs. Chaos Daemons than Grey Knights?

 D6Damager wrote:
So, looks like Kronos Tyranids are more effective vs. Chaos Daemons than Grey Knights?

It makes sense. Grey Knights are ultimately just a product of the engineering of the imperium of man. Tyranids are purpose built on a genetic level to be bad news for chaos. The shadow wrecks them. They don't have souls for them to corrupt. And now they have adapted an entire hive fleet for the sole purpose of not putting up with their gak. No amount of equipment or training is going to help the grey knights do what the tyranids are literally adapted and bred to do.

Here's some of the Stratagems:

 D6Damager wrote:
So, looks like Kronos Tyranids are more effective vs. Chaos Daemons than Grey Knights?

I mean nids have full biologic mastery of themselves. Being a Psyker is a genetic thing so of course they can really mess with the warp. Not to mention there mere presence cast the shadow.

Not really tactics, but did anyone grab the link to the new hive fleet colors? I swore I saw an article from warhammer community on Kronos colors etc but now I cant find it...

str00dles1 wrote:
Not really tactics, but did anyone grab the link to the new hive fleet colors? I swore I saw an article from warhammer community on Kronos colors etc but now I cant find it...

Apparently I already had my GSC painted up Kronos style. Even had them fluffed up to be Psyker heavy so that's just gravy.

Is that a new gun in the hands of the Chronos warrior or just a creative take on the venom cannon

Lance845 wrote: He never specified a hive fleet. I assume he was deepstriking the tyrants wing wings.

I did. Remade the list. Don't know how i'm going to 'tool' the hive tyrants but most likely shootie.

Command detachment KRAKEN
HQ: Flying Hive tyrant (shooting)
HQ: Flying Hive tyrant (shooting)
HQ: Flying Hive tyrant (shooting)

Command Detachment KRAKEN
HQ: Flying Hive tyrant (shooting)
HQ: Flying Hive tyrant (shooting)
HQ: Neurothrope (babysitting biovores)

Spearhead detachment JORMUNGANDR

HQ: Swarmlord
TRANSPORT: tyrannocyte

ELITE: tyrant guard x5
TRANSPORT: tyrannocyte

HEAVY SUPPORT: 1 biovore
HEAVY SUPPORT: 1 biovore
HEAVY SUPPORT: 1 biovore
HEAVY SUPPORT: 1 biovore
HEAVY SUPPORT: 1 biovore
HEAVY SUPPORT: 1 biovore

Lance845 wrote:I was going to say any tank heavy list would eat you up.... but nevermind. You have smite spam.

But I still think a vehicle heavy list is going to cause you a lot of problems.

If the Hive tyrants can surpass the bubble wrap and get in close combat with the vehicles then the can force them to 'fall back' and unable to shoot.

I might just remove the swarmlord and replace him with a malanthrope + another flying hive tyrant. Dunno, got the wait for the codex for the final details. But Hive tyrants that can smite, shoot, assault, fall back and repeat, are nice. I think that more and more enemy armies are going to add 'get of my lawn' units. Units that deploy in the field or 'scout' forward and push back the 'deep strike' bubble.

 Overread wrote:
Is that a new gun in the hands of the Chronos warrior or just a creative take on the venom cannon

Might be the relic cannon that ignores invulnerable saves

I don't like any of those color schemes at all.

I'll probably do the usual bone coloring, seraphim sepia on white, with blue (macragge blue) backing. Hive fleet <Aquafina> lol

I kinda like the Black yellow but not a fan of the others. Kronus looks a lot like Kraken to me.

@ shogun, you have no synapse for your biovores.

I like the colours schemes.

Hydra is a homage to the original tyranid. I love that.

Both Gorgon and Jormundgandir looks veyr much like old forge world tyranid colour schemes. Lots of brown and orange.

Kronos is the new kid on the block. But bold red and alpha legion blue with black. Looks sweet.

Rrrrrr.....

So how about those Carnifex heads?

I asume bone head = old on eye.

But tusk is one more attack on the turn you charge. In aditional to the other charge bonuses.

Acid maw is -5 AP S User and 1d3 damage. The damage is a bit disapointing. But S6 is a bit low. Good vs marines?

Screamer killer head is plasma head.

Enchanted sences is BS 3+

Is enchanted sences always the include if I wanne go shooting fexes?

What are people opinions on the carpaces? The one that shoots, or the one that makes it harder to shoot.

Is the way to do carnifexes dakka with venom cannon, enchanted sences and hard to hit?

My thought would be, you should envision how you're going to use your 'fex.

If go with a dakkafex, it's ideal position will be at near maximum range. I'll have the BS3+ upgrade on it, so i can drop him out of synapse and take the hit penalty, or advance him and shoot with 4+.

With that in mind, the hard to hit upgrade makes logical sense. If i was building a close-range fex, I would probably opt for the plasma upgrade, because you'll be in range to use it, and the best defense is a good offense.

Can I use the Tyranid Stratagems on GSC? They share the Tyranid Keyword so unless it specifies Hive Fleet or Monster I should be able to use it right? Rerolling wounds for a Patriarch or regen for a transport/russ sounds nice

@Niiai
I think I'd rather go for Deathspitters or Devouerers for my DakkaCarn but otherwise yeah that looks like the setup.

Mr.Pengwinn wrote:
Can I use the Tyranid Stratagems on GSC? They share the Tyranid Keyword so unless it specifies Hive Fleet or Monster I should be able to use it right? Rerolling wounds for a Patriarch or regen for a transport/russ sounds nice

@Niiai
I think I'd rather go for Deathspitters or Devouerers for my DakkaCarn but otherwise yeah that looks like the setup.

I would infer that no, you cannot, because my guess will be that it will have a line that mentions when it says Tyranids they mean specifically something with the <Hive Fleet> keyword. Similar to how "Adeptus Astartes" stratagems can't be used by Grey Knights, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, or Dark Angels.

 Marmatag wrote:

Mr.Pengwinn wrote:
Can I use the Tyranid Stratagems on GSC? They share the Tyranid Keyword so unless it specifies Hive Fleet or Monster I should be able to use it right? Rerolling wounds for a Patriarch or regen for a transport/russ sounds nice

@Niiai
I think I'd rather go for Deathspitters or Devouerers for my DakkaCarn but otherwise yeah that looks like the setup.

I would infer that no, you cannot, because my guess will be that it will have a line that mentions when it says Tyranids they mean specifically something with the <Hive Fleet> keyword. Similar to how "Adeptus Astartes" stratagems can't be used by Grey Knights, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, or Dark Angels.

when it says <TYRANIDS> it means units with the <TYRANIDS> keyword, which GSC have. <HIVE FLEET> is more specific.

What melee weapons do you guys recommend for the Hive Tyrant?

 Marmatag wrote:

Mr.Pengwinn wrote:
Can I use the Tyranid Stratagems on GSC? They share the Tyranid Keyword so unless it specifies Hive Fleet or Monster I should be able to use it right? Rerolling wounds for a Patriarch or regen for a transport/russ sounds nice

@Niiai
I think I'd rather go for Deathspitters or Devouerers for my DakkaCarn but otherwise yeah that looks like the setup.

I would infer that no, you cannot, because my guess will be that it will have a line that mentions when it says Tyranids they mean specifically something with the <Hive Fleet> keyword. Similar to how "Adeptus Astartes" stratagems can't be used by Grey Knights, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, or Dark Angels.

Ya but, other factions properly specify. IG have <REGIMENT> and Eldar have <CRAFTWORLD> Keywords for stratagems. <TYRANIDS> mean the faction keyword which GSC have, and they have used <HIVEFLEET> for stuff like Synapse so there shouldnt be any confusion. It might not be their intent, but until they put out a FAQ it seems like fair game. (A Leman Russ regening like a fex seems silly but I can fluff it out as a Magus repairing it with his mind.)

Mr.Pengwinn wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

Mr.Pengwinn wrote:
Can I use the Tyranid Stratagems on GSC? They share the Tyranid Keyword so unless it specifies Hive Fleet or Monster I should be able to use it right? Rerolling wounds for a Patriarch or regen for a transport/russ sounds nice

@Niiai
I think I'd rather go for Deathspitters or Devouerers for my DakkaCarn but otherwise yeah that looks like the setup.

I would infer that no, you cannot, because my guess will be that it will have a line that mentions when it says Tyranids they mean specifically something with the <Hive Fleet> keyword. Similar to how "Adeptus Astartes" stratagems can't be used by Grey Knights, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, or Dark Angels.

Ya but, other factions properly specify. IG have <REGIMENT> and Eldar have <CRAFTWORLD> Keywords for stratagems. <TYRANIDS> mean the faction keyword which GSC have, and they have used <HIVEFLEET> for stuff like Synapse so there shouldnt be any confusion. It might not be their intent, but until they put out a FAQ it seems like fair game. (A Leman Russ regening like a Cran seems silly but I can fluff it out as a Magus repairing it with his mind.)

Well again we can't infer without seeing the book. My *guess* would be it will specifically say Tyranids to mean Jormungandr, Hydra, et al, specifically excluding genestealer cults.

They've done a fairly solid job drawing the lines between the vegetables in the soup so far.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 dan2026 wrote:
What melee weapons do you guys recommend for the Hive Tyrant?

It's not possible to really say without seeing the costs and updated weapons, but a monstrous rending claw would be good to have for the rerolled wounds as it stands right now. With strength 6, you're going to be wounding ideal targets on 5s, so rerolling wounds effectively brings you up to a ~4+ to wound. Which is great for T8, meh for T7, and for T6 and below you're doing solid hurt.

of course you get more attacks with monstrous scything talons. equipping 2 pairs gets you to 6 attacks + the tail.

 Marmatag wrote:

Mr.Pengwinn wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

Mr.Pengwinn wrote:
Can I use the Tyranid Stratagems on GSC? They share the Tyranid Keyword so unless it specifies Hive Fleet or Monster I should be able to use it right? Rerolling wounds for a Patriarch or regen for a transport/russ sounds nice

@Niiai
I think I'd rather go for Deathspitters or Devouerers for my DakkaCarn but otherwise yeah that looks like the setup.

I would infer that no, you cannot, because my guess will be that it will have a line that mentions when it says Tyranids they mean specifically something with the <Hive Fleet> keyword. Similar to how "Adeptus Astartes" stratagems can't be used by Grey Knights, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, or Dark Angels.

Ya but, other factions properly specify. IG have <REGIMENT> and Eldar have <CRAFTWORLD> Keywords for stratagems. <TYRANIDS> mean the faction keyword which GSC have, and they have used <HIVEFLEET> for stuff like Synapse so there shouldnt be any confusion. It might not be their intent, but until they put out a FAQ it seems like fair game. (A Leman Russ regening like a Cran seems silly but I can fluff it out as a Magus repairing it with his mind.)

Well again we can't infer without seeing the book. My *guess* would be it will specifically say Tyranids to mean Jormungandr, Hydra, et al, specifically excluding genestealer cults.

They've done a fairly solid job drawing the lines between the vegetables in the soup so far.

I suppose. I've yet to see <Hive Fleet> for a stratagem yet but have seen specific hive fleets mentioned in a stratagem like:
Until we get the full book we can only speculate. It would be nice though. GSC need all the help they can get.

As its written, anything that specifies the Tyranid keyword also applies to GSC. Look at it similar to how Bobby G buffs both <Imperium> and <Ultramarines>. Some things, like synapse only apply to <Hive Fleet> and some, like a lot of the stratagems we’ve seen applies to <Tyranid>, which all tyranids and GSC have. Remember the GSC don’t have a subfaction <keyword>, they just have <Tyranid> and <Genestealer Cult>

C4790M wrote:
As its written, anything that specifies the Tyranid keyword also applies to GSC. Look at it similar to how Bobby G buffs both <Imperium> and <Ultramarines>. Some things, like synapse only apply to <Hive Fleet> and some, like a lot of the stratagems we’ve seen applies to <Tyranid>, which all tyranids and GSC have. Remember the GSC don’t have a subfaction <keyword>, they just have <Tyranid> and <Genestealer Cult>

So using this logic this allows GSC to use Tyranid kw Stratagems and possibly even relics as well as their allied Guard to use Non regimental Stratagems and relics.
That sounds interesting.

Hardly, i think that this is the same situation of the SM codex. They have the <Chapter> keyword and the adeptus astartes keyword. Theyr stratagems and relics RAW would apply also to Blood Angels since they share the Adeptus Astartes keyword, but they don't since in the codex it specifies that only the Adeptus Astartes from that book can benefit from it.
We could have an identical situation for tyranid keyword.