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 luke1705 wrote:

Tyran wrote:
A full unit of devilgants with the shoot twice stratagem should do a nice amount of damage to fodder, and we have plenty of ways to deliver that to the enemy.

Another option is to go crazy with big monsters with a list full of Dakkafexes, Exocrines and Tyrannofexes.

Actually I really like the devil gant idea. I didn’t run the numbers before because they died to an Alpha strike and delivery methods were too expensive, but now we can just jormungdr them and then....ravener or lictor them into place right? That seems pretty solid. It’s actually our single best anti infantry unit for just piling on wounds. Heck, even just throwing wounds onto Magnus or Mortarion is no joke. Morty takes 7-8 wounds on average (that’s how many FNP he fails, I mean). Even at -1 to hit, he’s looking at 5 failed FNP. Magnus takes 7 wounds even with his invuln increased and the assumed 6+ FNP warlord trait. Magnus with 3++ re-rolling 1’s and a changeling nearby is 4.5 failed FNP.

Like I’m really not mad at that output.

Is there any way to put them into reserves except for Jormungdr or a Trygon?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Whoops I did my math wrong. Was re-rolling 1’s to hit, not to wound. I think it’s a little worse but it’s in that same ballpark I think (+/- like 1 wound)

Well...how exactly does Lictor trail work now...?

Tyran wrote:

Whoops I did my math wrong. Was re-rolling 1’s to hit, not to wound. I think it’s a little worse but it’s in that same ballpark I think (+/- like 1 wound)

Rerolling ones to hit or one is exactly the same thing. Your damage increases by a factor of 7/6 either way.

A full unit of devourer gaunts kills this many IG with the strategem on average: 180 * 1/2 * 2/3 * 2/3 *7/6 = 46.67 . Similarily, they kill 58.32 gaunts or 17.52 marines. I'd say that this is great at clearing screens. It's even somewhat efficient at killing conscripts.

Killing a unit and almost a 2nd unit of conscripts is pretty good, especially when you can DS them for more 1 CP.

How does it work when you have multiple "At the end of the movement phase" abilities. Can I as a player choose in which order they happen?

For example. Can I drop a Tervigon in a Tyrannocyte and then spawn 10 Termagants?

Also, let me see if I got this right.
The Kraken trait lets you roll 3d6 when advancing, chosing the highest. If I combine this with the Kraken strategem "Opportunistic Advance" I can first move my unit of Genestealers up 8", then roll 3ds, pick the highest and double what i rolled? So if i roll a 5 as my highest i can advance 10"?

Phase 178 covers this (left side, Sequencing rules), if it is your turn you pick the order.

And yes for the Genestealer question, but your spending a CP to do that.

Couple questions based on the community/FLG previews. Do spore mines from the strat come onto the board before AL infiltrators? Second, does the Caustic Blood strat only work on the first fight phase for Khorne Berzerkers or both of them? The way it's written seems to suggest that during the second fight phase, the Berzerkers will be fine since it's a separate fight phase.

IDK the wording on AL, but if they are the same wording then you roll off, the winner gets to place 1 unit 1st, then the other places 1 unit and go back and forth.

I also dont know the other rule, is that where they attack again? or is that the CP that lets them attack again?

The pheremontrail abilaty does not work they way you think it works when you first read it.

It are 3 parts that are confusing:

1. The unit must already have a way of getting in reserve, or spawn on the map. This stratagem does not let you place things in reserve. Genestealer nodes come to mind.

2. It is unclear if the lictor can be placed in the same round. No matter raw/rai this will get clearified in an faq.

3. It is unclear if cultists can use this. This will be clearified in an faq.

When I say unclear I mean it spawn so much discussion, don't build an army around it before you know.

RogueApiary wrote:
Couple questions based on the community/FLG previews. Do spore mines from the strat come onto the board before AL infiltrators? Second, does the Caustic Blood strat only work on the first fight phase for Khorne Berzerkers or both of them? The way it's written seems to suggest that during the second fight phase, the Berzerkers will be fine since it's a separate fight phase.

For the Berzerkers, I'd say caustic blood works both times, as it is the same fight phase. The second time fighting is not a second fight phase, it's a second activation in the same fight-phase.

The lictor ability likely will get an FAQ just because of how many people will ask, but it is pretty clear how it works currently. People are just wary because of how things like that used to work. The wording is unambiguous.

Normal spore mines do not come down before infiltrators. If the stratagem says “this happens at the beginning of the first battle round”, then there is no roll off. Whomever has first turn is allowed to infiltrate their units first

 Xenomancers wrote:
warriors needed a buff more than anything in the codex and they didn't get it.

Maleceptor.
Haruspex.
Toxicrene.
Raveners.
Venomthropes.
Zoanthropes.
Lictors.
Tyranid Prime.
Tyrant Guards.
Tervigon.


All of the above were, and still are, in a worse place than Warriors.

Lictors are fine IMO, but the rest are not in a good place lol.

Both Lictors and Raveners suddenly got a job as Jormungandr-cabs, but they didn't get any buffs on their own that allows you to theme an army around them.

Heck, Raveners didn't even get close combat biomorphs like adrenal glands or toxin sacs.

But, as long as they can drive a cab, right?

I think raveners got a boost. Deathspitters went down by 3 points, and got range 24". Good for popping up and shooting devestators squads. Probably need hive crone or other synapse. Also, the guns went down to 1 point. So for 1 point they get 4 S3 gun attacks.

If anybody is running ravaners they will buy one of those 2. 1 points for 4 shots is a good bargein if you are running snakes. The only reason not using them is because you buy the heavy bolter.

Do people think it matters that harpies and hive crones are in the flyer slot in the codex, rather than fast attack? I think it'll have a number of effects:

- They won't be any use to fill out a brigade. Not sure that matters much as they are pretty pricey for that role.

- You'll be able to have a flyer wing if you have three of them. Again not much of a big deal as HQs seem good, and neurothropes are cheap as well. HQs aren't much of a "tax" for Nids.

- They won't be able to score once chapter approved comes out. This is a really big deal for a unit with a 30" move. Pretty major nerf.

- It will be possible to table you without killing them. This could well matter, especially if you take 3+ of them. That's close to 25% of your points at 2k, which your opponent can ignore if going for a tabling.

Mandragola wrote:
Do people think it matters that harpies and hive crones are in the flyer slot in the codex, rather than fast attack? I think it'll have a number of effects:

- They won't be any use to fill out a brigade. Not sure that matters much as they are pretty pricey for that role.

- You'll be able to have a flyer wing if you have three of them. Again not much of a big deal as HQs seem good, and neurothropes are cheap as well. HQs aren't much of a "tax" for Nids.

- They won't be able to score once chapter approved comes out. This is a really big deal for a unit with a 30" move. Pretty major nerf.

- It will be possible to table you without killing them. This could well matter, especially if you take 3+ of them. That's close to 25% of your points at 2k, which your opponent can ignore if going for a tabling.

You have valid points there. It is also anoying that they are apparently the only "flyers" who do not have the -1 to hit built in.

So I've been thinking that a Kronos gunline with screening bodies is going to be ugly. I'm thinking three Exocrines, two T-fexes, 6-8 Hive Guard, two Malanthropes, and an absurd amount of termagants + some warriors for keeping synapse happy.

Is it worth trying to put in 'stealer nodes and a big squad of 'stealers for countercharge?

Are primes preferable to warriors for this build?

Is a drop devilgaunt squad feasible? It would synergyze well, and the double tap stratagem is too good to pass up, but I would need the points for the 30 gaunts and the Trygon/Raveners to deliver them.

 Astmeister wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Do people think it matters that harpies and hive crones are in the flyer slot in the codex, rather than fast attack? I think it'll have a number of effects:

- They won't be any use to fill out a brigade. Not sure that matters much as they are pretty pricey for that role.

- You'll be able to have a flyer wing if you have three of them. Again not much of a big deal as HQs seem good, and neurothropes are cheap as well. HQs aren't much of a "tax" for Nids.

- They won't be able to score once chapter approved comes out. This is a really big deal for a unit with a 30" move. Pretty major nerf.

- It will be possible to table you without killing them. This could well matter, especially if you take 3+ of them. That's close to 25% of your points at 2k, which your opponent can ignore if going for a tabling.

You have valid points there. It is also anoying that they are apparently the only "flyers" who do not have the -1 to hit built in.

Helldrakes also lack the -1 to hit. Helldrakes also are a "melee" flyer like the Harpy and Hive Crone.

I dont mind honestly, i still like the Harpy better over all and most likely will still take 2 of them time to time.

I dont do brigades anyways since i'll most likely be playing 2 Fleets, so its 2 Battalions for me.

Tho.. I might do a Brigade once or twice for fun

What ways are best to get command points?

From what I can see. It might be worth it to take 2 battalions. It is 9 command points, 3 less then Brigade detcahment.

Both needs 3 warlord and 6 troops. But 2x battalion needs only 1 more HQ. While in a brigade you need to fill out 3 elites, 3 fast attack and 3 heavy support.

Unless your army is spotting a heavy elite and fast attack slot already they can be hard to fill.

Minimum elite = lictors
Minimum fast attack = 3 spore mines, 1 mycolit, 3 ravaners (guns otimal) or 10 gargoyles.
Minimum heavy support = 3 biovores.

3 biovores can be usefull. So heavy suport is not so hard to fill. Lictors and the fast attack options seems a bit lackluster though. Only ravaners seems remotly usefull.

Any opinions?

Carnifex's are so good now i do dont mind taking 2 of them. And spores are easy, i just want 2 fleets lol

Edit: I have a brigade list for sure tho, 12 CP can be really nice, tho it would most likely all by Jormungandr shooting, DakkaFex's, Dakkaflyrants, Mawloc+lictor+Devilgants, Exocrine, Hive guard and a Tfex. with lots of Rippers

Something I noticed that may need to be clarified by GW. Sporefield allows you to add up to 2 units of Spore Mines. All 3 spore mine types have the Spore Mine keyword. You may be able to use that stratagem to add units of the bigger more damaging mines.

 Lance845 wrote:
Something I noticed that may need to be clarified by GW. Sporefield allows you to add up to 2 units of Spore Mines. All 3 spore mine types have the Spore Mine keyword. You may be able to use that stratagem to add units of the bigger more damaging mines.

Aprarantly the way that sporemines are worded is that you don't need to pay for them if they are made by other units. But not by stratagems.

 Niiai wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Something I noticed that may need to be clarified by GW. Sporefield allows you to add up to 2 units of Spore Mines. All 3 spore mine types have the Spore Mine keyword. You may be able to use that stratagem to add units of the bigger more damaging mines.

Aprarantly the way that sporemines are worded is that you don't need to pay for them if they are made by other units. But not by stratagems.

If that was true the strategem would be pointless. Spore mines already have a float down rule which says they are not deployed with the rest of your army. They deploy via deepstrike 12" + away from enemy models. So... you would pay 3 CP to do what spore mines do anyway but slightly sooner?

Nope.

What is the problem with warriors these days?

There are probably good reasons - but has anyone tried just bonesword warriors? Maybe chuck in spinefists if they are only a point now.

It seems to me on paper they do reasonable damage. Its not the level of Genestealers - and they are a bit slower - but on the other hand you are dramatically more survivable versus small arms. Something like 5 times as survivable by my count for half the damage.

Genestealers are better if you are reliably first turn charging I guess - but if your opponent gets first turn those genestealers should be target number 1 (or would be if people were still not getting distracted by big stuff).

No... they are worded "no reinforcement points" anything that would take reinforcement points means you dont pay for them, this includes stratagems.

Is it just me or does a kronos tyrannofex with a rupture cannon seem like a best in slot for anti tank?

Or is an exocrine actually better?

I am kind of surprised that with all of 7th nobody ever made 3rd party spore mines/mucolid spore models.

*Edit*- Added Thematic Overall notes.

Not sure if this has been consolidated anywhere, but I got tired of flipping back and forth and scanning multiple threads. This is a combine HIVE FLEET Warlord Traits, Adaptation, and Strategems. This doesn't include the Generics, but hopefully is easier to see/read and give you a better idea of the flavor of each of the fleets.

WL Warlord Traits (Warlord Only)
HFA Hive Fleet adapations (apply to everything)
STRAT Stratagems (cost CP)
RELIC Relics

KRAKEN - Theme is Fast Advance and Maneuver, fastest Fleet
HFA Kraken: When a unit with this adaptation Advances, roll three dice instead of one and pick the highest to add to the Move characteristic of all models in the unit for that Movement phase. In addition, such units can Fall Back and charge in the same turn.
WL Kraken: 1 friendly kraken unit within 6 of wlt, can fight first in fight phase even without charging
STRAT 1cp Opportunistic Advance- Use in the Movement Phase. Choose a Kraken unit that does not have the Fly keyword. When Advancing you can double number you roll when determining how much to add to the unit's Movement characteristic.
RELIC Chameleonic Mutations (Kraken): -1 to hit from shooting attacks

GORGON - Theme is great on WOUNDING in Fight Phase
HFA Gorgon: You can re-roll wound rolls of 1 in the Fight phase for units with this adaptation
WL Gorgon: end of fight phase. roll d6 for every enemy within 1" of warlord. on 4+, that unit suffer a MW.
STRAT 1cp Hypertoxicity (Gorgon)- fight phase. choose gorgon wiht toxin sac, the biomorph do 1 additional dmg on wounds roll of 5+ instead of 6
RELIC Hyperadaptive Biology (Gorgon): From the end of the first phase in which this model suffers any wounds, add 1 to its Toughness for the remainder of the battle

JORMUNGANDR - Theme is Deepstriking/Tunnels, Cover bonus/ignoring enemy cover
HFA Jormungandr: A unit with this adaptation (other than units that can fly) always has the benefit of cover for the purpose of shooting attacks. If the unit advances or charges, however, it loses the benefits of this adaptation until the start of your movement phase.
WL Jormungandr: Enemy unit dont gain bonus to saving throw for being in cover by attacks from wl, or friendly Jormungandr units within 3 of wl.
STRAT 1cp the enemy below (Jormungandr) -use strat when jor inf set up, put it undergorund. whenever you set up raveners mawloc trygon or trygon prime. any no of its unit can be set up within the tunnels, 3 inch from burrowing unit ,9 inch away enemy.
RELIC Infrasonic Roar (Jorgmungandr) : Monster only. Enemy unit within 6 inch of this model must subtract 1 from LD.

HYDRA - Theme is Swarm Tactics, to HIT's in Fight Phase, Regeneration
HFA Hydra: You can re-roll hit rolls in the Fight phase for units with this adaptation that target units containing fewer models than their own
WL Hydra: Beginning of each of your turn, roll a dice for each wound WL suffered, on a 6, heal.
STRAT 2cp Endless Swarm -(Hydra) Select a destroyed unit of gants, horms, garg or any hydra inf unit that has been completely destroyted. Add an identical unit to your army and set it up as reinforcement wholly 6inch of any board edge , more than 9 inch from enemy
RELIC Slimer Maggot Infestatation (Hydra): Replaces pair of slimer deathspitters. Re-rolls failed wounds

KRONUS - Theme is Pysker/Anti Pysker and Shooting Buffs
HFA Kronos: You can re-roll hit rolls of 1 for units with this adaptation in your Shooting phase if they did not move in the preceding Movement phase
WL Kronos: Enemy psyker fail a psychic test within 18 of your wl, they suffer D3 MW
STRAT 1cp Against Shadow (Kronos)- enemy psyker attempts to cast a spell within 24 inch of kronos unit. that psyker can only use 1 dice for his psyk test.
RELIC Balethorn Cannon (Kronos): Replaces Stranglethorn. Ignores invuln saves

LEVIATHAN - Theme is army Feel no Pain and Lots of Universal Rerolls
HFA Leviathan: Roll a D6 each time a unit with the adaptation loses a wound whilst it is within 6" of a friendly Synapse unit from the same hive fleet. On a 6, the damage is ignored and the unit does not lose a wound. Ignore this adaptation on a unit that is currently affected by the Catalyst psychic power.
WL Leviathan : 1 per battle round. you can reroll a single hit/wound/dmg /advance charge or saving throw for the wl.
STRAT 1cp war on all fronts (leviathan)-fight phase. select enemy within 1inch of 1 flying and 1 nonflying leviathan unit. can reroll hits & wound rolls of 1 for levi attacks against the enemy unit
RELIC Slayer Sabres (Leviathan): Replaces monstrous boneswords. If against infantry or biker model suffers dmg from this weapon but not slain at end of fight phase, roll d3. if result is greater than wounds remaining on the model, the model is slain. 

BEHEMOTH - Theme is Devastating CHARGES and bonus attacks in the Fight Phase
HFA Behemoth: You can re-roll failed charge rolls for units with this adaptation
WL Behemoth: WOund roll of 6 in fight phase. that attack +1 dmg
STRAT 1cp brute force (behemoth)-use when benemoth unit complete charge . roll d6 for each behemoth charging model within 1inch of enemy. each roll of 6, 1 MW on enemy unit. 2+ for a behemoth monster charging; (30 man gant charge in, roll d6 for all, on a 6 chuck a mw)
RELIC Scythes of Tyran (Behemoth): Replaces massive scything talons. Adds +1S and generates extra attack on to hit of 6+