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Made in us
Nimble Ellyrian Reaver



Longmont, Co

Am I reading this right? Tyrants and carnifex' can have two different bio cannons?

Says you can change one or both their kit with items from the bio cannons list and on the page that lists the bio cannons it just says you can't have multiples of the same one, so...yes?

Is that new?

All of the things. Most of the time. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Cheyenne WY

 luke1705 wrote:
pinecone77 wrote:
 Niiai wrote:
Hi.

Saw over the carnifexes. Is tge screamer killer a bit exspensive? It starts out 90. Now that includes the plasmic scream, range 18, ap 4, yay. But not the scything tallons. So that is a total of 105. 115 with the -1 to hi sporecystt. And 120 for all that and edrenal glands. Is that a bit exspendive?

Regular carnifex with , 4x tresher scythe, Spore cysts, and adrenal glands clock in at 97 points. That is a whopping 23 points cheaper.

If you want to be attacking I think a bone mace at 2 points for S8 is good. It is an extra attack.

But maybi the Monstruc acid maw is good. Only S user, but it has AP -5 and D3 damage. 10 points. Although this might be better vs 2+ troops then T7 S3+. Scything tallons have a flat 3 damage, as opposed to the acid maws averadge 2.
I thought the new write ups included the base equipment...? I've been thinking 90+10 for spore cloud, Adrenals depending, if I run Behemoth, likely won't need them....


What are you basing this on? I don’t see anything that indicates that change
Articles in White Dwarf, Frontline gaming video(s)...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cauthon wrote:
Am I reading this right? Tyrants and carnifex' can have two different bio cannons?

Says you can change one or both their kit with items from the bio cannons list and on the page that lists the bio cannons it just says you can't have multiples of the same one, so...yes?

Is that new?
If that is what is says, that would be new...used to have an see below note that said only one of Venom/Strangle.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/11 19:47:51


The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER 
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

On page 83. Asterix. Can.not have norr then one of these weapons.

Anyway, mellee fex has 4 options. Scything tallon, 2x scything tallons, big claws, and acid maw. Tusks supply for extra attack on several of these.

Ranged fexes can take the bs head, plasma head or the acid maw as it's cc weapon, making it a hybrid. I am finding my head imploding on this. If i mesd around with heavy cannons or devourers with 36 and 24 range respektivly i want the bs head. But if i take the range 18 guns there are big chances there will be mellee.

Also, are the to hit rolls really so bad on claws? If we get the charge it is +1 to hit. Tusks can generate more attackd. Should they not be able to smash T7?

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




I'd kinda like a venom cannon 'fex but don't think there's really an efficient setup for it.
   
Made in us
Tough Tyrant Guard






My spreadsheet shows that crushing claws are worse than the ST all the time (Because of the extra attack and reroll 1s to hit), but not by a huge amount (~10% more efficient) and they cost ~10% more (12 vs 14).

If I was doing melee I'd do 2x MST and Spore cysts. Maybe tusks and/or bone mace if I had points leftover afterwards.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
changemod wrote:
I'd kinda like a venom cannon 'fex but don't think there's really an efficient setup for it.


2x Devourers + HVC is a pretty solid anti-tank platform that is also decent vs a range of other targets.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/11 20:31:15


 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





NJ

pinecone77 wrote:
 luke1705 wrote:
pinecone77 wrote:


I thought the new write ups included the base equipment...? I've been thinking 90+10 for spore cloud, Adrenals depending, if I run Behemoth, likely won't need them....


What are you basing this on? I don’t see anything that indicates that change


Articles in White Dwarf, Frontline gaming video(s)...



This is actually a really big deal if true (and makes much more sense in the context of the screamer killer). If that thing is a flat 100 including weapons and -1 to hit, I think that’s pretty good. Tossing an extra 15 on top makes little sense


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Can someone confirm this? I don’t see that at all in the codex anywhere

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/11 21:18:46


 
   
Made in us
Norn Queen






 luke1705 wrote:
pinecone77 wrote:
 luke1705 wrote:
pinecone77 wrote:


I thought the new write ups included the base equipment...? I've been thinking 90+10 for spore cloud, Adrenals depending, if I run Behemoth, likely won't need them....


What are you basing this on? I don’t see anything that indicates that change


Articles in White Dwarf, Frontline gaming video(s)...



This is actually a really big deal if true (and makes much more sense in the context of the screamer killer). If that thing is a flat 100 including weapons and -1 to hit, I think that’s pretty good. Tossing an extra 15 on top makes little sense


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Can someone confirm this? I don’t see that at all in the codex anywhere


The codex is the only source that matters until a faq errata arrives. If the codex tells you to pay for wargear you pay for wargear.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in us
Tough Tyrant Guard






Screamer killer is listed as 90 under "Does not include wargear"
   
Made in ru
Virulent Space Marine dedicated to Nurgle





Nids got easiest Brigade detachment, but after I made brigade list with neurotropes, termagants, stealers, tyrannofex, biovores, spores, zoantropes, harpies, carnifex and venomtropes, i felt that 2-3 specialized detachments of different hive fleets might be more competitive.

But stratagems are so powerful and CP consuming...

My head hurts.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/11 21:31:12


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I'm still a fan of 3 detachments. The brigade requires too much dedicated to a single adaptation.
   
Made in ru
Virulent Space Marine dedicated to Nurgle





I feel you are right, but will field test brigade first.

I can bet after couple month ig-genecult-nids lists will be most efficient option, especially if chapter approved rumors are true.
Nids will provide cheap fearless screen and stratagems shinanigans, while cult and IG will yield some dakka and assault potential.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/11 21:45:31


 
   
Made in se
Hungry Little Ripper





So the points value list in the Codex says "Does not include weapons", it doesn't say anything about wargear like other codices. Does this mean a Thornback gets its chitin thorns for free since it's part of the base model and isn't a weapon? Obviously other Carnifexes would need to pay for their non-weapon wargear since it isn't part of the base model.

Or do you think this is an oversight from GW?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/11 22:05:57


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Cheyenne WY

 Nighttail wrote:
So the points value list in the Codex says "Does not include weapons", it doesn't say anything about wargear like other codices. Does this mean a Thornback gets its chitin thorns for free since it's part of the base model and isn't a weapon? Obviously other Carnifexes would need to pay for their non-weapon wargear since it isn't part of the base model.

Or do you think this is an oversight from GW?
If thats what it says, likely needs a FAQ, just for clarity. Frontline did a fair bit of playtest, so they know something about RAI. But thats not enough to be Sure. I heard that things that have base equip, just have it, like exocrenes, and a Screamer has no options, exept to upgtade....hmmm


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Traceoftoxin wrote:
Screamer killer is listed as 90 under "Does not include wargear"
Kinda depends on what "wargear" is.....If that means "pay for extras" (like -1 hit, etc) thats all good. Otherwise, I don't see Screamers making a "serious" list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Fan67 wrote:
Nids got easiest Brigade detachment, but after I made brigade list with neurotropes, termagants, stealers, tyrannofex, biovores, spores, zoantropes, harpies, carnifex and venomtropes, i felt that 2-3 specialized detachments of different hive fleets might be more competitive.

But stratagems are so powerful and CP consuming...

My head hurts.
I think it'll come down to "style" Do you like running several Hive Fleets ("Soup") then run 3 detachments. If you like having trump card moves from Strats, then Brigade plus is the way to go.

I think I lean towards Brigade plus, so I can get used to using one (or two) Fleets, so I can avoid making errors. Then use my Strat advantage to control the "tempo" of the battle.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/11/12 00:31:45


The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER 
   
Made in ca
Sneaky Lictor



oromocto

So with our cheapest troop choice (Rippers) and HQ (Nurnthrope) we can fill out 3 battalions for 717 pts with very useful units (6 nurnthrope and 9 broods of 3 rippers) giving us a guaranteed 12 minimum CP. Then we can replace units to upgrade if we want better stuff but is this going to be a standard basic for most Lists now. We have a lot of great Strats now and having a big 12 cp pool is going to make things nasty for our enemies.

On the other hand a min cost regiment is 711pts and again everything is useful (even if it's just so other things can go into reserve...looking at you mucilids) for 6 CP is this worth it?

(2 Battalions and a regiment)711+239+239 = 1189 pts gives us 15 CP leaveing 811pts for "upgrades"

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/12 01:10:20


 
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

People over at the tyranid hive forum are praicing the sporocyst. What are your thoughts on it? Could it be competetive? It dropped in points and can generate spore units.

I would also imagine it in a list with biovores. Spore mines everywhere.

   
Made in ca
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer





British Columbia

I'm planning on using mine for sure. Been advocating them as a strong early game board presence/deep strike denial.

Their cost made it a tough sell in super optimized lists but I think they could factor in especially in lists trying to use them and Gaunts to protect Genestealer nests so they can be launched full strength into the enemy.

My early thoughts are Swarmy/shooting/genestealer heavy so the Stealers can get into the meaty center that the early shooting phase causes.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.


 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






What do you guys think of this list?
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/744322.page

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Putting together some trial lists. Rules are: 2000 points, 'nids only, must only consist if models that I have painted or could paint by next Saturday (local event). Troll potential is a bonus.

Kronos Monster Mash

Kronos Supreme Command Detachment, 902 Points
Flying Hive Tyrant, 4x devourers, adrenal glands
Flying Hive Tyrant, 4x devourers, adrenal glands
Flying Hive Tyrant, 4x devourers, adrenal glands
Flying Hive Tyrant, 4x devourers, adrenal glands
3x Venomthrope

Kronos Spearhead Detachment, 1091 Points

Hive Tyrant, LW/BS, Balethorn Cannon
Exocrine
Exocrine
Tyranofex, rupture cannon
Tyranofex, rupture cannon
   
Made in us
Tough Tyrant Guard






Spore mines are attractive, but I have other places I'd rather spend my points on something I don't forsee generating that much damage over the course of the game.

At least Biovores allow you to project the mines to specific targets and possibly limit their movement.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
babelfish wrote:
Putting together some trial lists. Rules are: 2000 points, 'nids only, must only consist if models that I have painted or could paint by next Saturday (local event). Troll potential is a bonus.

Kronos Monster Mash

Kronos Supreme Command Detachment, 902 Points
Flying Hive Tyrant, 4x devourers, adrenal glands
Flying Hive Tyrant, 4x devourers, adrenal glands
Flying Hive Tyrant, 4x devourers, adrenal glands
Flying Hive Tyrant, 4x devourers, adrenal glands
3x Venomthrope

Kronos Spearhead Detachment, 1091 Points

Hive Tyrant, LW/BS, Balethorn Cannon
Exocrine
Exocrine
Tyranofex, rupture cannon
Tyranofex, rupture cannon


Why Kronos for the first detachment? Why not Kraken? Gives you the ability to fall back and bounce into other combats to either stop someone from shooting, or you can surround a model with all your tyrants, then they can't fall back and your tyrants can't be shot. I don't think you'll ever be sitting still to get the bonus to hit. You could do the Kronos WL Trait, but against armies that aren't spamming smite it seems like it will be unlikely to come up much.

Other option is behemoth for the charge reroll, but with no melee weapons on the flyrants, I don't see that as particularly great. Though, with the standard Tyrant kit, you can call the big talon feet Monstrous Rending Claws.

Or, Leviathan, which gives you a bit more durability for all your flyrants. Should statistically make them at effectively W14. Almost gets you a whole fifth Tyrant in durability.

Personally, Kraken seems too strong to me on such mobile units. I'd run MRC+2Dev on all the tyrants with Kraken.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/12 03:23:09


 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





ref: sporocysts you infiltrate them, and then spit mines forward more. it should eat up huge amounts of real estate and they're not particularly expensive. take them as kronos and you're hitting on 5's rerolling 1's for your deathspitters. with the new 24" range on them, it doesn't sound terrible.
   
Made in us
Norn Queen






Well, my FLGS got screwed on their GW order and my codex and cards haven't shown up yet. If anyone wants to do a little unit write up for any particular units for the OP please PM me with them. Otherwise I am waiting on my codex to do anything substantial there so I can check my facts with the book.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in us
Tough Tyrant Guard






 gigasnail wrote:
ref: sporocysts you infiltrate them, and then spit mines forward more. it should eat up huge amounts of real estate and they're not particularly expensive. take them as kronos and you're hitting on 5's rerolling 1's for your deathspitters. with the new 24" range on them, it doesn't sound terrible.


What do you do when the enemy has infiltrators? Or a screening unit? Throw 3 mortal wounds and roughly 6 heavy bolter hits out a turn for over 100 pts on a totally immobile unit.

I don't think they're bad, but I'm not remotely interested in spending over 100 pts on one. I can barely fit what I consider the bare minimums for a competitive list as it is, and limiting enemy movement is not anywhere on that list. The more people move out of their deployment zone, the easier our lives are. Being able to surround models with chargers (So they can't fall back) is super, super, super important, and enemies need to spread out for that to happen.

Even with a pair, unless you deploy them extremely close, an enemy infiltrator can just deploy at the point where their 9" bubbles intersect and now all the area between them is a dead zone, so they're not even useful for creating space for your own deep striking units.

Maybe for a completely shooty list there's some solid value, but I'm not sure that shooty nids are going to be super viable. There's definitely some good stuff in there, but I don't think we have what it takes to outshoot Guard, SM or Eldar.

Genestealers can wipe out basically anything in the game, they're probably going to be our lynchpin unit for competitive lists.

That and Kraken Flyrants, because they're impossible to lock down, and with 2 devs+MRC they're actually pretty good against a huge range of stuff.
   
Made in us
Norn Queen






I think the sporecysts just helps to overwhelm. It's fairly tough, spits out super inconvenient spore mines, and has a good range on some decent guns. And (I think) it still expands synapse and maybe shadow in the warp (does it?).

Every shot fired into the spore cyst to stop it's annoyance is shots not fired at other threats and nids are only really competitive with overwhelming threat saturation.

I can see it doing some good work with Jormungandr. It's gets a bonus to it's save, it spews out it's spore and shots, it boosts your synapse helping to cover the troops you spit out of the tunnels.

I less want to surround enemies at game start and more want to deny any space but the enemies deployment zone and back field for their own deepstrikers. I want to totally control 2/3rds of the board on turn 1. To do that a sporecysts and the spore field stratagem along with Jorm tunnelers can give you total control of the field for a cost in CP on turn 1 regardless of whether you go first or second.

Good. Anything to maximize your first turn and minimize theirs. The first turn is too critical to deciding most games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Battlescribe appears to be updated with the codex info. Would anyone with the dex mind checking it out for accuracy?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/12 07:03:21



These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 Traceoftoxin wrote:


What do you do when the enemy has infiltrators? Or a screening unit? Throw 3 mortal wounds and roughly 6 heavy bolter hits out a turn for over 100 pts on a totally immobile unit.



you do what you do any time the enemy has infiltrators: you counter deploy and try to fill up space to limit space to deploy and move forward, pretty much exactly like you'd do if they didn't have infiltrators.

i'm not saying they're amazing/must take 6 in every list but yes, i think they're worth a serious look.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Traceoftoxin wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
babelfish wrote:
Putting together some trial lists. Rules are: 2000 points, 'nids only, must only consist if models that I have painted or could paint by next Saturday (local event). Troll potential is a bonus.

Kronos Monster Mash

Kronos Supreme Command Detachment, 902 Points
Flying Hive Tyrant, 4x devourers, adrenal glands
Flying Hive Tyrant, 4x devourers, adrenal glands
Flying Hive Tyrant, 4x devourers, adrenal glands
Flying Hive Tyrant, 4x devourers, adrenal glands
3x Venomthrope

Kronos Spearhead Detachment, 1091 Points

Hive Tyrant, LW/BS, Balethorn Cannon
Exocrine
Exocrine
Tyranofex, rupture cannon
Tyranofex, rupture cannon


Why Kronos for the first detachment? Why not Kraken? Gives you the ability to fall back and bounce into other combats to either stop someone from shooting, or you can surround a model with all your tyrants, then they can't fall back and your tyrants can't be shot. I don't think you'll ever be sitting still to get the bonus to hit. You could do the Kronos WL Trait, but against armies that aren't spamming smite it seems like it will be unlikely to come up much.

Other option is behemoth for the charge reroll, but with no melee weapons on the flyrants, I don't see that as particularly great. Though, with the standard Tyrant kit, you can call the big talon feet Monstrous Rending Claws.

Or, Leviathan, which gives you a bit more durability for all your flyrants. Should statistically make them at effectively W14. Almost gets you a whole fifth Tyrant in durability.

Personally, Kraken seems too strong to me on such mobile units. I'd run MRC+2Dev on all the tyrants with Kraken.


Right now I'm interested in exploring pure shooting nids. I may be missing/misreading something, but 24 S6 shots per tyrant +smite feels sturdy, particularly on a platform that can deep strike.

I don't like any of the Hive Fleets for the quad devourer Flyrants, and I went with Kronos to keep things simple. I do agree that Kraken has potential.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is another try at the same concept, a big bug all shooting build:


Kronos Spearhead, 978 Points
Neurothrope
Exocrine
Exocrine
Tyranofex (rupture cannon)
Tyranofex (rupture cannon)

Supreme Command, 1015 Points
Flying Hive Tyrant, 4x devourer
Flying Hive Tyrant, 4x devourer
Flying Hive Tyrant, 4x devourer
Flying Hive Tyrant, 4x devourer
Flying Hive Tyrant, 4x devourer

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/11/12 08:28:53


 
   
Made in us
Norn Queen






Im working on a nid list.

Jormungandr.

2 ravener and a trygon prime making tunnels for troops.

Should it be 2 units of 30 devourer gants and 1 unit of 30 hormagaunts?

Or

2 units of 30 hormagaunts and 1 units of devourer gants?

The devil gant units are 60 points more expensive. But I am having trouble deciding if the shooting would be more valuable then the tons of bodies to tie everyone up with. The rest of the list provides some good smite spam and other shooting. I have the trygon for strong melee, and the ravs are providing both deathspitters and rending claws. It's a good mix of shooting and melee and i am not 100% sure where to go.


These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





What guns would you equip a Sporocyst with?

It has crap BS so Venom Canons don't seen too wise to me.
   
Made in ru
Virulent Space Marine dedicated to Nurgle





Biovores and sporecyst seem excellent at disturbing enemy's movement. I'd keep cysts as cheap as possible.

Looking at local top tier lists I don't see Flyrants to be competitive, too fragile and expensive. Haven't done mathhammer yet but they seem weaker than Vultures in damage output, and Vultures ain't that scarry.

Timeshadow wrote:
So with our cheapest troop choice (Rippers) and HQ (Nurnthrope) we can fill out 3 battalions for 717 pts with very useful units (6 nurnthrope and 9 broods of 3 rippers) giving us a guaranteed 12 minimum CP. Then we can replace units to upgrade if we want better stuff but is this going to be a standard basic for most Lists now. We have a lot of great Strats now and having a big 12 cp pool is going to make things nasty for our enemies.

On the other hand a min cost regiment is 711pts and again everything is useful (even if it's just so other things can go into reserve...looking at you mucilids) for 6 CP is this worth it?

(2 Battalions and a regiment)711+239+239 = 1189 pts gives us 15 CP leaveing 811pts for "upgrades"


Unfortunately most of the TO of the large tournaments tend to forbid using same detachments.
Three battalions would be most convenient option.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/12 12:33:36


 
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

 Lance845 wrote:
Im working on a nid list.

Jormungandr.

2 ravener and a trygon prime making tunnels for troops.

Should it be 2 units of 30 devourer gants and 1 unit of 30 hormagaunts?

Or

2 units of 30 hormagaunts and 1 units of devourer gants?

The devil gant units are 60 points more expensive. But I am having trouble deciding if the shooting would be more valuable then the tons of bodies to tie everyone up with. The rest of the list provides some good smite spam and other shooting. I have the trygon for strong melee, and the ravs are providing both deathspitters and rending claws. It's a good mix of shooting and melee and i am not 100% sure where to go.


You want devover gants. Ifyou are light on points you can run a mix of them. 20/10 or 15/15. Why you want lots of devouver gants is simply the 2xshooting stratagem. If you have a 4 man ravaner squad you might fit 90 termagauntsaround them for 3 command points. What does the trygon bring?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok. I have am ambisius question: What archtype style listst have we, and what are key elements to those listst?

To elborate further, I see peoole.talking about flyrants to remove chaff. Why is that? Does those lists run mellee units, and therefor the chaff must ve removed?

Do gunlines have the same problem?

How do tyranid alpha strike armies play?

What about a footslogging list? What are key elements to survive with those?

Hhat listst suffer from alpha strike, and how do we counter that?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/12 13:30:08


   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





NJ

 Lance845 wrote:
Im working on a nid list.

Jormungandr.

2 ravener and a trygon prime making tunnels for troops.

Should it be 2 units of 30 devourer gants and 1 unit of 30 hormagaunts?

Or

2 units of 30 hormagaunts and 1 units of devourer gants?



The latter. Devourer gants are only good if they’re firing twice. If you want extra dakka in a Jormungdr Detachment, grab a dakkafex or two. If you want to play competitively, though, that dakkafex will need to be upgraded to a dakka Flyrant. Would recgladly end either Kraken for perfect mobility and that beautiful -1 to hit relic or Kronos for psychic shenanigans. Really depends what you want your second Detachment to be.
   
 
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