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Current Iteration:

Kraken
HQ1: Malanthrope
HQ2: Neurothrope
Troop1: Hormagaunt x20
Troop2: Hormagaunt x20
Troop3: Hormagaunt x20

Kraken
HQ1: Swarmlord
HQ2: Flying Hive Tyrant /w Devourer & Monstrous Clawfeets
Troop1: Genestealers x20
Troop2: Genestealers x20
Troop3: Termagants /w Devourers x30
Heavy1: Trygon /w Adrenal

This leaves me with about 160 points to play with.

I was also tempted to make my second battalion Kronos, or Jormungandr, which would allow me to deep strike a few things in the Trygon tunnel. But Jorm doesn't wholly benefit the genestealers.

I HATE starting 40 genestealers on the table. It feels like a recipe to get cleared if i go second. I really could use a way to work in that second Trygon.

I'd drop a few gaunts and get a tyranocyte for the swarmlord.

really no good to just walk him up the field without tyrant guard to soak wounds.

shogun wrote:

changemod wrote:
Do Tyrant Guard have much use now? I notice their attacks have gone up to 3 each if nothing else. Could maybe be loose terminator equivalents in Jormungandr with their higher toughness and save plus crushing claws?

Only if you use them at full effect and deepstrike 6 of them with 3 (and maybe swarmlord) flying hive tyrants within 3 inch. Make sure they're jormungandr and give them catalyst.

Shooting at the hive tyrant? That's a 3+/4++ save with a 5+ catalyst/feel no pain backup on a 2+(look out sarge!)
Shooting at the tyrant guard? That's a 2+ with 5+ catalyst/feel no pain

With deep striking hive tyrants it's possible to use them again as a hive tyrant bomb.You do have to make sure you got the space to do so.

Give them devourers and the really clear the bubble wrap.

Also fun: make the tyrant guard 'hydra' and after the die the can 'revive' at any board edge outside 9 inch of the enemy. flyrants fly toward the 'new' tyrant guards and enjoy a new round of devourer shooting with full tyrant guard backup.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
I'd drop a few gaunts and get a tyranocyte for the swarmlord.

really no good to just walk him up the field without tyrant guard to soak wounds.

So, local meta includes significant los blocking terrain. he's probably safe turn 1 except from Tau shooting. but if they focus on swarmy i'll probably curb them ugly as they'll be within charge range guaranteed turn 2 or my turn 1.

Also, i'll have an alternate list for the tournaments that disallow forgeworld. Probably a second neurothrope in place of the malanthrope.

Razerous wrote:
Only 4 attacks with the Tyrant, okay strength?

hits on 2's and rerolls wounds. with 6's doing 4 auto damage with toxin sacs rest of wounds deal d3 damage - and this weapon is free.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Marmatag wrote:
Current Iteration:

Kraken
HQ1: Malanthrope
HQ2: Neurothrope
Troop1: Hormagaunt x20
Troop2: Hormagaunt x20
Troop3: Hormagaunt x20

Kraken
HQ1: Swarmlord
HQ2: Flying Hive Tyrant /w Devourer & Monstrous Clawfeets
Troop1: Genestealers x20
Troop2: Genestealers x20
Troop3: Termagants /w Devourers x30
Heavy1: Trygon /w Adrenal

This leaves me with about 160 points to play with.

I was also tempted to make my second battalion Kronos, or Jormungandr, which would allow me to deep strike a few things in the Trygon tunnel. But Jorm doesn't wholly benefit the genestealers.

I HATE starting 40 genestealers on the table. It feels like a recipe to get cleared if i go second. I really could use a way to work in that second Trygon.

Take a lictor? You could deep strike 1 unit for 1 command points and the other unit...hide it? then you have like 120 points. Take tyrant gaurd.

I suppose. Definitely hurts to lose a CP to DS.

Edit. And if i'm bringing lictors I may as well just go brigade. I dunno maybe not the worst idea.

 Marmatag wrote:
Current Iteration:

Kraken
HQ1: Malanthrope
HQ2: Neurothrope
Troop1: Hormagaunt x20
Troop2: Hormagaunt x20
Troop3: Hormagaunt x20

Kraken
HQ1: Swarmlord
HQ2: Flying Hive Tyrant /w Devourer & Monstrous Clawfeets
Troop1: Genestealers x20
Troop2: Genestealers x20
Troop3: Termagants /w Devourers x30
Heavy1: Trygon /w Adrenal

This leaves me with about 160 points to play with.

I was also tempted to make my second battalion Kronos, or Jormungandr, which would allow me to deep strike a few things in the Trygon tunnel. But Jorm doesn't wholly benefit the genestealers.

I HATE starting 40 genestealers on the table. It feels like a recipe to get cleared if i go second. I really could use a way to work in that second Trygon.

Well...Kraken gives some fall back tricks, so you might replace Swarmy with a Winged Tyrant...? You can use Infestation nodes for the Stealers, so thats all good. I might run x2 x30 Broods of Hormies, and some Rippers for grabbing/holding. Then I'd run the Trygon Tunnel based on what I'm facing across the table. Worth giving a play or two to figure it out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And then you should have enough points for something cool...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think an Acid Spray Krakon Tyrannofex is the ultimate distraction carnifex.

 Marmatag wrote:
I suppose. Definitely hurts to lose a CP to DS.

Edit. And if i'm bringing lictors I may as well just go brigade. I dunno maybe not the worst idea.

SOUNDS LIKE A FAMILIAR CONVERSATION, HUH?!?

haha.

But seriously, the hardest part is fitting enough CP and alternate delivery methods while keeping the damage up.

What are you guys spending command points on - I think 9 is plenty.

 Xenomancers wrote:
What are you guys spending command points on - I think 9 is plenty.

I think you can at least count on 8 commands points being used.

1 To begin.
1 To sieze.
2 to double shoot turn 1
2 to double shoot turn 2
2 to double shoot turn 3

If you are running taxies that is between 1 and 3.

Kraken probably wants some for double move, or acid blood.

 Marmatag wrote:
I suppose. Definitely hurts to lose a CP to DS.

Edit. And if i'm bringing lictors I may as well just go brigade. I dunno maybe not the worst idea.

Lictor is only 45 points. Hey if it kills a character you get 3 command points for 1 so it's a net gain Yeah...that will never happen but at least it is a cheap way to get genestealers in the fight.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Niiai wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
What are you guys spending command points on - I think 9 is plenty.

I think you can at least count on 8 commands points being used.

1 To begin.
1 To sieze.
2 to double shoot turn 1
2 to double shoot turn 2
2 to double shoot turn 3

If you are running taxies that is between 1 and 3.

That makes sense for a list that have hive gaurd. If you don't have hive guard and are using it on gants - it's probably only going off once.

 Xenomancers wrote:
What are you guys spending command points on - I think 9 is plenty.

If you don't have 2 trygons, you need 1 to deepstrike a unit of GS.

You need 1 to double advance a unit turn 1. You MAY want to use 1 to double move+advance another unit.

You want 2 to double tap.

That's 3-5 down turn 1, without rerolling any dice with CP. I generally do 1-2 a turn. So probably 4-6 CP turn 1.

Add 2 to interrupt the opponents counter charge between your first and second turn, which is fairly likely if you managed to tie up enough units or lock a unit completely in.

Turn 2 you may or may not do a double advance. You will probably double tap shooting again. You may use caustic blood, or used it during their turn. You may use adrenaline surge for 3 cp.

Basically, if you're playing an aggressive nids list, you can burn through 9 cp in two turns very, very easily. Personally, I'd love to have 12+ CP, but our brigade units are less than desirable.

I think spending a point to seize is a waste. You go from a 1/6 chance to a 1/3 chance.

When I build a list I normally notate on the bottom what stratagems i have in mind. The ones I seem to like most often are...

Feeder tendrils 1(Lictor, Broodlord, or GS kill character regain d3 CP, this is free chance, make sure any Cthullu models are hunting characters. Also, hopefully the malanthrope will get this as well.)
Caustic blood 1 (start of fight phase, each model removed, on 6+ deals mortal wound, used when swarms of gants tarpit a high value model)-
Adrenaline rush 3 (unit can fight again, would not really do this unless i think it would be a game winning move, perhaps with genestealers against a character, combo with feeder tendrils to try and get some of them back. Potentially all of the CP.)
Pheremone Trail 1 (lictor taxi DS)
Death Frenzy 2 (Character fight again if slain, if swarmy or CC Hive Tyrant dies)
Single Minded Annihilation 2 (shoot twice, Devilgant double tap, not worth it on other things imo. 180 dice is gonna kill some gak!)
Pathogenic slime 2 ( +1 damage of shooting , use for high wound enemy units on Dakkafex, Tyranofex, Dakka Tyrant, combo with above Devil turn 1 to really get alphastirke )
Voracious appetite 1cp- character or monster can reroll failed wounds in fight phase; use if I fluff all my wounds with swarmy, Trygon, HT. With this we should never be spending a command point to reroll a single wound.
Rapid Regenearation 2 (model regains D3 wounds- HT or Swarmy)
Metabolic Overdrive 1 cp- move and advance 2x, cannot charge or shoot, on a 1 take a mortal wound. Good for rapid repositioning of units, maybe swarmy or Flyrant
Overrun 1 cp- unit destroys enemy in fight phase, instead of consolidate can move and advance as normal.

The various HF Stragagems where applicable, particulary Kraken, kronos, jormungandr.

I always take 2 battalions so I get at least 9, if i want to go cheap i can get 12-15 cp.

FYI

Warhammer Community have confirmed that Rending Claws Tyrants are still completely legal.

https://m.facebook.com/1575682476085719/photos/p.1925340157786614/1925340157786614/?type=3&source=47

 Marmatag wrote:
Current Iteration:

Kraken
HQ1: Malanthrope
HQ2: Neurothrope
Troop1: Hormagaunt x20
Troop2: Hormagaunt x20
Troop3: Hormagaunt x20

Kraken
HQ1: Swarmlord
HQ2: Flying Hive Tyrant /w Devourer & Monstrous Clawfeets
Troop1: Genestealers x20
Troop2: Genestealers x20
Troop3: Termagants /w Devourers x30
Heavy1: Trygon /w Adrenal

This leaves me with about 160 points to play with.

I was also tempted to make my second battalion Kronos, or Jormungandr, which would allow me to deep strike a few things in the Trygon tunnel. But Jorm doesn't wholly benefit the genestealers.

I HATE starting 40 genestealers on the table. It feels like a recipe to get cleared if i go second. I really could use a way to work in that second Trygon.

This is what I would do, very close to what I am looking at for a Kraken fleet. The Warlord Trait allows you to Fallback and fly where he is needed if you want to ensure a unit gets to fight first without having to fallback and get shot at again from overwatch. Also, since he can fly, after he falls back he can shoot, land to give the aura buff, then charge into enemy which wont get overwatch if they are already locked in combat. Note, on a 6 this guy does 7 damage with his Sword. Tyrant gaurd go with Swarmy, gave them AG b/c I had 3 pts leftover.


Battallion Detachment -Kraken-3CP -
HQ
Flyrant with Lashwhip & Bonesword, Devourers w/ Brainleech worms Relic: Reaper of Obliterax, Warlord Trait: One Step Ahead , Pyshic Scream, Catalyst, Toxin Sacs, Pincer Tail 1 196 DS
Swarmlord-Pyschic Scream, Onslaught 1 300 OB


Troops
Hormagaunts 30 30 150 OB
Hormagaunts 30 30 150 OB
Rippers 3 33 DS

Battallion Detachment -Kraken-3CP -
HQ

Malanthrope 1 90 OB
Malanthrope 1 90 OB

Troops
Genestealers, 4x Acid Maw, Rending Claws, ST, Infestiontion Nodes 16 192 DS
Genestealers, 4x Acid Maw, Rending Claws, ST 16 192 DS
Termigaunts ( 30x Devourers) 30 240 DS

Heavy Support
Trygon Prime, AG 1 199 DS

Elites
Lictor 1 45 DS
Tyrant Guard w/ Scything talons and rending Claws, AG 3 123
TOTALS

2000

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
What are you guys spending command points on - I think 9 is plenty.

If you don't have 2 trygons, you need 1 to deepstrike a unit of GS.

You need 1 to double advance a unit turn 1. You MAY want to use 1 to double move+advance another unit.

You want 2 to double tap.

That's 3-5 down turn 1, without rerolling any dice with CP. I generally do 1-2 a turn. So probably 4-6 CP turn 1.

Add 2 to interrupt the opponents counter charge between your first and second turn, which is fairly likely if you managed to tie up enough units or lock a unit completely in.

Turn 2 you may or may not do a double advance. You will probably double tap shooting again. You may use caustic blood, or used it during their turn. You may use adrenaline surge for 3 cp.

Basically, if you're playing an aggressive nids list, you can burn through 9 cp in two turns very, very easily. Personally, I'd love to have 12+ CP, but our brigade units are less than desirable.

true - but I think that's just good use of command points. They are best to use when squads are at full strength. So spending points quickly just makes sense. I agree with you. Brigade options are not very good. I'd rather had a much stronger army with 9 command points than a weaker one with 13 or so.

Got my first post-Codex game in today! Old One Eye was AMAZING. Death Guard opponent baited him out with some Nurglings. Behemoth not being inclined to restraint, he broke ranks and stomped on them for First Blood.

My Warlord, the nearest target? He took a LOT of incoming dakka. Catalyst helped enormously, so much so that when the Deathshroud charged him, he tanked their strikes (Adaptive Biology seems deceptively strong) and then (after downing three Command Points of spinach) proceeded to eat the lot of them. Nom!

Pretty glad my primary fleet is Behemoth colours. Probably going to main it on my other one as well tbh, maining Word Bearers with some Berzerkers and Khornate Terminators and Possessed has made me fond of re-rolled charges.

So when people are using multiple different Hive Fleets across their detachments, are y'all painting them to reflect this? I'd raise an eyebrow if a fleshthing tried to tell me that their three devastator squads with blue armour and inverted omega insignia are actually imperial fists, as is their chaplain with half his face missing. Not best practice for WYSIWYG clarity, and probably not popular with TOs...

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
I suppose. Definitely hurts to lose a CP to DS.

Edit. And if i'm bringing lictors I may as well just go brigade. I dunno maybe not the worst idea.

SOUNDS LIKE A FAMILIAR CONVERSATION, HUH?!?

haha.

But seriously, the hardest part is fitting enough CP and alternate delivery methods while keeping the damage up.

Hahahaha!!! Yes.

If i didn't have to take 3 heavy and 3 elite it would be easy. I can drop the malanthrope for a neurothrope and fit a second trygon. Or drop swarmy for a flying ht and just bring another trygon. I hate doing that though, because Swarmy lets me get insane moves, akin to alpha legion, if i go first.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And It doesn't matter to me about mixing hive fleet with no paint job for it. This is the first time we got chapter tactics. You cannot seriously expect people to repaint literally hundreds of models.

Hi Community

I did not know where to place my first post but here it seems right. I'm pretty new to the 40k and can't understand what's good and what's not. I would like to start with Tyranids and would like to go for 1000 or 1500 point models this weekend.

At the moment i will play against mortar artillery astra militarum.

As soon as I know the game and tyranids better, it will be easier construct an army. But at the moment I feel uneasy. Can the experienced swarm players give me recommendations? What are the musthave units of Tyranids? What's good against the mortar strategy?

Tyri

Kraken Battalion
Malanthrope
Neurothrope
20xHormagaunts
20xHormagaunts
20xHormagaunts

Kraken Battalion
Swarmy
Flying HT /w Monstrous Feets & Devourers
30x Devourer Gants
20x Genestealers
20x Genestealers
1x Trygon
1x Trygon

Literally 2000 points on the nose.

Tyri wrote:
Hi Community

I did not know where to place my first post but here it seems right. I'm pretty new to the 40k and can't understand what's good and what's not. I would like to start with Tyranids and would like to go for 1000 or 1500 point models this weekend.

At the moment i will play against mortar artillery astra militarum.

As soon as I know the game and tyranids better, it will be easier construct an army. But at the moment I feel uneasy. Can the experienced swarm players give me recommendations? What are the musthave units of Tyranids? What's good against the mortar strategy?

Tyri

Hummm...you are ina tough spot buddy because AM mortar spam is about the most busted thing in this game. It's also very good against tyranids. So it's a tough road. Take a look at this list in this thread though - most of them are made knowing AM might be your opponent. Lots to learn in this thread.

Tyri wrote:
Hi Community

I did not know where to place my first post but here it seems right. I'm pretty new to the 40k and can't understand what's good and what's not. I would like to start with Tyranids and would like to go for 1000 or 1500 point models this weekend.

At the moment i will play against mortar artillery astra militarum.

As soon as I know the game and tyranids better, it will be easier construct an army. But at the moment I feel uneasy. Can the experienced swarm players give me recommendations? What are the musthave units of Tyranids? What's good against the mortar strategy?

Tyri

First thing i would do is try to get ahold of any old nid army up for sell on Ebay to get you started.

The old Swarm box was a really good deal too, but GW is out of stock atm.

You will never go wrong with winged hive tyrants, or nurothropes for HQ's. Only get a tervigon if you plan on getting alot of gaunts (it is pretty strong now with jorm fleet trait). Genestealers are very strong atm with a broodlord backing them up.

Honestly any of the units are good, but not nessecarily without other certain units to back them up. Pick how you want your army to play (i.e. shooty, melee, deepstrike) and build based on that.

Tyri wrote:
Hi Community

I did not know where to place my first post but here it seems right. I'm pretty new to the 40k and can't understand what's good and what's not. I would like to start with Tyranids and would like to go for 1000 or 1500 point models this weekend.

At the moment i will play against mortar artillery astra militarum.

As soon as I know the game and tyranids better, it will be easier construct an army. But at the moment I feel uneasy. Can the experienced swarm players give me recommendations? What are the musthave units of Tyranids? What's good against the mortar strategy?

Tyri

Hi. There are few 'must have' units in the current codex. It is very balanced internally. There are how ever some units that have a strong synergy together.

Most units in the book are OK in melee. Some are very good in melee, and a few are good at shooting.

In general you will be very god at killing troops. The 'bottle necks' tend to be killing big things. Thing with many wounds, high T and good saves.

If you want shooting vs big things there usual suspects are:

Hive Guard (both versions)
Exoshrine
Tyranofex rupture cannon (VS T8)
Tyranofex Flamer (VS flyers)
Warriors with venom cannons
Biovores
Honerable mention heavy venom cannon carnifex, harpy, hive crone

For melle the usual suspects are
Genstealers (one of the best units in the codex, an iconic warhammer unit)
Hive tyrants with rending claws
Warriors with boneswords
Raveners (bad saves, no synapse)

Vs big blobs of infantery you can clear these with:
Warrior deathspitters
Termagaunts with devourers
Flyrant with double devourers
Carnifex with devourers

You might also want some smite. Smite is a vital cog in 8th edition. Good damage, hard to target.
Zoanthropes
Neurothrope
Hyve Tyrant/flyrant

You can also grab some 'distraction carnifexes'. A relativly high threath that will split your opponents focus.
Bare boned carnifex
Mawlock
Screamer Killer

Chaff
Spore Mines

Objective Grabbers
Rippers
Gargoles
Termagaunts

If you have any pet units you want to use, that is a good place to start and then build your army to support them

 lindsay40k wrote:
FYI

Warhammer Community have confirmed that Rending Claws Tyrants are still completely legal.

https://m.facebook.com/1575682476085719/photos/p.1925340157786614/1925340157786614/?type=3&source=47

I'm confused. Can't you just do this in the codex, since Hive Tyrants can still take Monstrous Bio-Weapons and that list still includes Monstrous Rending Claws?

 Marmatag wrote:
Kraken Battalion
Malanthrope
Neurothrope
20xHormagaunts
20xHormagaunts
20xHormagaunts

Kraken Battalion
Swarmy
Flying HT /w Monstrous Feets & Devourers
30x Devourer Gants
20x Genestealers
20x Genestealers
1x Trygon
1x Trygon

Literally 2000 points on the nose.

I can get behind this. I'm not sold on swarmlord yet, but, he's definitely in the mix. I think his viability is heavily tied to the amount of LOS blocking terrain on the board.

I don't like splitting the horms into 3 units, but, it saves you 66 pts on rippers, and that's a big deal.

 lindsay40k wrote:


So when people are using multiple different Hive Fleets across their detachments, are y'all painting them to reflect this? I'd raise an eyebrow if a fleshthing tried to tell me that their three devastator squads with blue armour and inverted omega insignia are actually imperial fists, as is their chaplain with half his face missing. Not best practice for WYSIWYG clarity, and probably not popular with TOs...

I am just going to either buy some custom unit markers/tokens, or just use some rhinestones or other small token like thing to denote my different fleets, if I decide to go hybrid.

The difference between the Nids codex painting one color and playing another fleet vs the Space Marines, is that the various SM chapters each have their own codex. If Behemoth had a codex, then leviathain, then kronos and so on then it would be comparable.

If you want to try different fleets they force you to paint a different scheme, what if you don't like it? Besides, Tyranids have splinter fleets, so just field as a splinter fleet under XXx parent fleet. IE i am playing a purple and bone colored fleet, under behemoth. Fluff wise, the biomass they are consuming is from a world like pandora with lots of glowing flora. Done.

All that being said, I think having a clear set of unit markets to denote the fleets for your opponent would be nice and helpful.

What can we do to safely activate Adaptive Biology? Minefields, Perils of the Warp, and Mysterious Objectives are very niche options. We have the entirety of our Codex, GSC, and most of AM to work with. Double points if it’s not something that’s clearly got to get FAQ’d.

Can any math whiz figure out how many devilgaunts are needed to kill mortarian with the double shot and pathogenic slime strategmes? Basically wondering if 30 and those strategems has a shot.

 buddha wrote:
Can any math whiz figure out how many devilgaunts are needed to kill mortarian with the double shot and pathogenic slime strategmes? Basically wondering if 30 and those strategems has a shot.

30 devilgaunts with the strats active will do about 90 hits, 33wounds, of which he will save 22ish so your dealing about 22 dmg which he then FNP's about 7-8 of. Sooooo your looking at about 14-15 wounds of damage on average to him, which I suppose isn't bad but not enough to kill him.


This is just guestimating off the top of me head.

Pathogenic is only on monsters.

90 shots, 45 hits, 15 wounds, rerolling 1s is another 2.5 wounds so 17.5 wounds, saves 2/3, so about 6 unsaved wounds, FNP gets rid of 2 so 4 damage.

4 damage per volley, so double tap should get about 8 damage.