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xmbk wrote:
I see a lot of people talking Dakkafex in Jormungandr. I just don't see it, as you pretty much have to advance first turn in order to get into range. Is there a trick I am missing?

Why would you need to advance? 18+7 is plenty of range to find a viable infantry target in most games.

Agreed, don't advance, just move.

xmbk wrote:
I see a lot of people talking Dakkafex in Jormungandr. I just don't see it, as you pretty much have to advance first turn in order to get into range. Is there a trick I am missing?

Onslaught?

Razerous wrote:

xmbk wrote:
I see a lot of people talking Dakkafex in Jormungandr. I just don't see it, as you pretty much have to advance first turn in order to get into range. Is there a trick I am missing?

Onslaught?

That's not going to help you, you still have advanced, so no cover for your fex.

I think the best thing about warriors now is their medioricity... they are effective but don't draw fire like our top tier units so they get ignored and if they do get focused down they are drawing fire from our big guns.... really nearly perfect for the points.

changemod wrote:

xmbk wrote:
I see a lot of people talking Dakkafex in Jormungandr. I just don't see it, as you pretty much have to advance first turn in order to get into range. Is there a trick I am missing?

Why would you need to advance? 18+7 is plenty of range to find a viable infantry target in most games.

How is that plenty, given a 24" neutral zone? Too easy for too many armies to stay outside the 25" threat range.

xmbk wrote:

changemod wrote:

xmbk wrote:
I see a lot of people talking Dakkafex in Jormungandr. I just don't see it, as you pretty much have to advance first turn in order to get into range. Is there a trick I am missing?

Why would you need to advance? 18+7 is plenty of range to find a viable infantry target in most games.

How is that plenty, given a 24" neutral zone? Too easy for too many armies to stay outside the 25" threat range.

I don't think I've ever once met someone who didn't deploy a sizeable chunk of their army on the line. Partly due to space requirements, partly due to needing their units to close in to be effective too.

I guess it's loosely plausible that a very elite gunline army might manage to castle further back.

changemod wrote:

xmbk wrote:

changemod wrote:

xmbk wrote:
I see a lot of people talking Dakkafex in Jormungandr. I just don't see it, as you pretty much have to advance first turn in order to get into range. Is there a trick I am missing?

Why would you need to advance? 18+7 is plenty of range to find a viable infantry target in most games.

How is that plenty, given a 24" neutral zone? Too easy for too many armies to stay outside the 25" threat range.

I don't think I've ever once met someone who didn't deploy a sizeable chunk of their army on the line. Partly due to space requirements, partly due to needing their units to close in to be effective too.

I guess it's loosely plausible that a very elite gunline army might manage to castle further back.

Only an idiot would deploy that close to tyranids.

 Xenomancers wrote:

changemod wrote:

xmbk wrote:

changemod wrote:

xmbk wrote:
I see a lot of people talking Dakkafex in Jormungandr. I just don't see it, as you pretty much have to advance first turn in order to get into range. Is there a trick I am missing?

Why would you need to advance? 18+7 is plenty of range to find a viable infantry target in most games.

How is that plenty, given a 24" neutral zone? Too easy for too many armies to stay outside the 25" threat range.

I don't think I've ever once met someone who didn't deploy a sizeable chunk of their army on the line. Partly due to space requirements, partly due to needing their units to close in to be effective too.

I guess it's loosely plausible that a very elite gunline army might manage to castle further back.

Only an idiot would deploy that close to tyranids.

Or someone that isn't a pure gunline army and is confident that they can outmelee us, which isn't hard.

Don't forget objectives and the Relic, which tend to bring people closer to the deploy line.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Kraken Battalion
Malanthrope
Neurothrope
20xHormagaunts
20xHormagaunts
20xHormagaunts

Kraken Battalion
Swarmy
Flying HT /w Monstrous Feets & Devourers
30x Devourer Gants
20x Genestealers
20x Genestealers
1x Trygon
1x Trygon

Literally 2000 points on the nose.

I can get behind this. I'm not sold on swarmlord yet, but, he's definitely in the mix. I think his viability is heavily tied to the amount of LOS blocking terrain on the board.

I don't like splitting the horms into 3 units, but, it saves you 66 pts on rippers, and that's a big deal.

So, fun thought about that though - i might start bringing them in squads of 19, with the new ITC missions. One of the secondary awards 2 points for killing a unit of 20+, and only 1 point for 10+. So, dropping 1 model out of each squad would lower my opponents scoring opportunities.

In the Bay Area, you mostly see standard symmetrical ITC, except with significant LOS blockers in the center of the board. Usually it's 1 big piece. The place I play at mainly uses actually 2 big pieces. For instance, in a competitive game, i was able to have units in the center of the board acting and shooting, while also being protected from a squad of Cheese Reapers. I don't know how this list would fair in a meta where there's less LOS blocking terrain - in that instance, i would drop the Swarmlord for another Flying Hive Tyrant, and use the points to add in some Ripper Swarms for a cheap throwaway unit to score Recon points every turn.

With this many models, I should be able to max out 12 points on secondaries (or get super close), and if the game goes to 3 turns, I should expect 3 points for killing units, 3 points for objectives, and at least 2 more points for "more objectives" and "more units killed," putting my baseline score at 20. In a 3 turn game that should be enough to win, because I am equipped to control the board, and outside of killing blobs of units, I don't really make scoring easy for my opponent.

I like the Swarmlord for one of the reason alpha legion is popular, the ability to guarantee a turn 1 charge if you go first is pretty nice. If people actually don't have a huge footprint to block alphas I can 100% get a squad of genestealers on the table into melee turn 1 with him. Let's assume I advance 5" every time. 8+5 = 13", with Swarmlord, and doubling the advance (which I can do twice, because it's 2 separate phases), gets me to a 36" Genestealer move turn 1. I'd have to trail them a bit on the first move to make sure Swarmlord can keep up, but it's a guaranteed, 100%, first turn charge with Genestealers. Anyone without screening units will basically lose to me if i go first. Pre-codex, this move would have be expected (8+3.5)*2 = 23" move. Codex gets me an extra foot of movement out of the Stealers. If the Swarmlord survives to turn 2, I can beta strike Genestealers into melee from the Trygon because they can DS and move with Swarmlord. So it's entirely possible that i've got 30-40 genestealers up in their business going into turn 3, with squads of Hormagaunts controlling the board. It won't work against a lot of armies, like Tau, or Guard, but it will against Eldar, Harlequins, Space Marines, Orks...

Being 100% honest I didn't have 60 hormagaunts, and 40 stealers, pre-codex, so i've got some painting to do before I can make this happen. I'm going to do some light playtesting with the Swarmlord and see how he does until my force is ready.

I'm really liking a Kraken Trygon Prime for delivering dakkagants. For 38 more points you get synapse, shadow, and character status, which lets you put the -1 to hit Kraken relic on hit.

Kraken doesn't help him that much, but if you are running a Kraken detachment your malenthrope or Venomthropes get the advance bonus so it is reasonable to get the gants and even possibly the Trygon into the bubble. Best I can tell, the relic stacks with the Venoms-if you go first you could in theory position such that the Prime is -2 to hit, the gants are -1, and still do some damage with the 180 shot double tap.

So I just played a game and used the venom cannon sporocyte. It seemed pricy but it was a power point game so I thought wtf I'll give it a shot. He was great I dropped him 9.1" away from his lines and blasted away at his tacticals. It dominated that area and just kept spawning mines every round. Getting to reroll 1's kronos hive fleet makes it deadly. Plus the extra mortal wound gun at 9" kept the enemy away. It really complemented my hive guard in the backfield behind it. At 179pts though I'm not sure it's worth it or not outside of a power game. 104 with the deathspitters I think is the way to go most games espushuly if you want to use multiple.

I have painted a leviathan army. And that is what I am going to play. But inspiered by the codex I thought maybe I should include some Kronos unist. I bought a pack of zoanthropes and converted up 3 zoanthropes.

However, the Neuronnthrope is best as a leviathan unit? It has the 3++, benefits from the 6+++, can heal itself back with smite. It is flying so it can trigger the leviathan strataggem. It does not benefit from Kronos rules, and the only benefit it ads is the deeper shadow abilaty.

What makes for a good Kronos addon to the army? I am on a budget money vice. I am thinking mayby 1 neoronthrope and 3 biovores that I can convert from hive guards. That is a cheaqp detachments. The Neuronthrope can have the Norn Crown to deal with synapse problems.

Other sugestions are also welcome. That is why I am asking.

changemod wrote:

xmbk wrote:

changemod wrote:

xmbk wrote:
I see a lot of people talking Dakkafex in Jormungandr. I just don't see it, as you pretty much have to advance first turn in order to get into range. Is there a trick I am missing?

Why would you need to advance? 18+7 is plenty of range to find a viable infantry target in most games.

How is that plenty, given a 24" neutral zone? Too easy for too many armies to stay outside the 25" threat range.

I don't think I've ever once met someone who didn't deploy a sizeable chunk of their army on the line. Partly due to space requirements, partly due to needing their units to close in to be effective too.

I guess it's loosely plausible that a very elite gunline army might manage to castle further back.

I always find it interesting to see how different this game is in different areas. Trust me, it's a lot more than loosely plausible. Even a mobile list like Tau or Eldar will start outside 25", at least from Dakkafexes. Just don't see Jorm as "plausible" for them.

 Niiai wrote:
I have painted a leviathan army. And that is what I am going to play. But inspiered by the codex I thought maybe I should include some Kronos unist. I bought a pack of zoanthropes and converted up 3 malanthropes.

However, the malanthrope is best as a leviathan unit? It has the 3++, benefits from the 6+++, can heal itself back with smite. It is flying so it can trigger the leviathan strataggem. It does not benefit from Kronos rules, and the only benefit it ads is the deeper shadow abilaty.

What makes for a good Kronos addon to the army? I am on a budget money vice. I am thinking mayby 1 neoronthrope and 3 biovores that I can convert from hive guards. That is a cheaqp detachments. The Neuronthrope can have the Norn Crown to deal with synapse problems.

Other sugestions are also welcome. That is why I am asking.

I'm confused, are we talking about the Malanthrope (FW floaty brain bug, 10power) or Neurothrope (former Zoanthrope unit leader, 4power)?

I can see how that sounds confusing. :-) I corected it to Neuronthrope now.

Gotcha :-)

Neurothropes seem to be really good mid-range support units. Re-rolling 1’s gives them a casting roll of 7.8 - almost as good as a +1 to cast.

They’re the cheapest Synapse unit, and one that has CHARACTER benefits.

Casting their support spell doesn’t stop them from Smiting as well, with 24” range.

If you want a safe pair of hands for denying Slay The Warlord, they’re a cheap option to sit back and watch Swarmlord or OOE run pell-mell into the fray.

Really, it seems to be a solid addition to any Hive Fleet, and I’d avoid overthinking how each Hive Fleet’s special tricks might affect it. Being slow and having little melee capability beyond Smite and Psychic Scream, it’s a poor candidate for Leviathan’s Stratagem - that particular trick wants Gargoyles, Flyrants, or our Flyers.

It would certainly be a neat addition to a Kronos artillery battery. But don’t forget that it would only give Synapse and Instinctive Behaviour coverage to other Kronos units.

Neurothropes don't get to smite at 24".

Also, they hardly give Slay the Warlord, but are also uncapable of exploiting any of the warlord traits, which are actually really powerful.

Ah. Good catch

 lindsay40k wrote:
Gotcha :-)

Neurothropes seem to be really good mid-range support units. Re-rolling 1’s gives them a casting roll of 7.8 - almost as good as a +1 to cast.

They’re the cheapest Synapse unit, and one that has CHARACTER benefits.

Casting their support spell doesn’t stop them from Smiting as well, with 24” range.

If you want a safe pair of hands for denying Slay The Warlord, they’re a cheap option to sit back and watch Swarmlord or OOE run pell-mell into the fray.

Really, it seems to be a solid addition to any Hive Fleet, and I’d avoid overthinking how each Hive Fleet’s special tricks might affect it. Being slow and having little melee capability beyond Smite and Psychic Scream, it’s a poor candidate for Leviathan’s Stratagem - that particular trick wants Gargoyles, Flyrants, or our Flyers.

It would certainly be a neat addition to a Kronos artillery battery. But don’t forget that it would only give Synapse and Instinctive Behaviour coverage to other Kronos units.

Well you can get a unit of 3 warriors with ST and Rending Claws for only 66 POints. So that is actually are cheapest synapse unit. Not to mention it has 9 wounds vs neurothrope 5, and A neruonthrope is gonna have a 24" synapse bubble, where if you space out the warriors 2" apart you are getting 28" ish maybe slightly bigger with base sizes. If you want guns you can go Devourers instead of RC and its 72 points.

Warriors seem to be a hidden gem with lots of utility.


@ Niiai Keep in mind the Norn crown only helps with Instinctive Behavior, NOT Synapse so the Norn Crown Has limited use IMO.

Kronos Neuronthrope with 3 biovores as the Heavy Support detachment. Norn Crown on Neuronthrope. (Or perhaps not, and I can move for that nice -2 to hit for Spore mines.)

I keep seeing this and i think its important to clarify.

Synapse does not have a 24" range. IB shuts off with 24" of a synapse creature but you are still very much susceptible to moral with all your very low ld units with lots of models and poor survivability.

Synapse is 12" if you want to automatically pass moral which is mostly what it's used for.

Very few units even need their ib turned off (exocrines/hive guard). Things that will be charging will be charging the closest units 90% of the time anyway.

 Marmatag wrote:
Let's assume I advance 5" every time. 8+5 = 13", with Swarmlord, and doubling the advance (which I can do twice, because it's 2 separate phases)

I agree with everything you said but this. Kraken stratagem is in the movement phase only, sadly.

 Lance845 wrote:
I keep seeing this and i think its important to clarify.

Synapse does not have a 24" range. IB shuts off with 24" of a synapse creature but you are still very much susceptible to moral with all your very low ld units with lots of models and poor survivability.

Synapse is 12" if you want to automatically pass moral which is mostly what it's used for.

Very few units even need their ib turned off (exocrines/hive guard). Things that will be charging will be charging the closest units 90% of the time anyway.

Yeah but on the other hand, most artillery isn't very vulnerable to morale, if at all. The requirements to babysit those units are pretty simple as a result, given you don't need to be very close.

What if a tyranid unit without synapse support declares charges against several enemy units, will the charge roll get the -2 penalty?

'Subtract 2 from its charge roll if it declares a charge against any unit other than the nearest enemy unit'

changemod wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
I keep seeing this and i think its important to clarify.

Synapse does not have a 24" range. IB shuts off with 24" of a synapse creature but you are still very much susceptible to moral with all your very low ld units with lots of models and poor survivability.

Synapse is 12" if you want to automatically pass moral which is mostly what it's used for.

Very few units even need their ib turned off (exocrines/hive guard). Things that will be charging will be charging the closest units 90% of the time anyway.

Yeah but on the other hand, most artillery isn't very vulnerable to morale, if at all. The requirements to babysit those units are pretty simple as a result, given you don't need to be very close.

I agree. Im just saying having synapse is different from not having ib. What a neurothrope provides is not a 24" synapse bubble. Its a 12" synapse bubble and any ib guys within 24 can ignore ib. We have a lot of new players joining the thread looking for nid advice and i dont want this all confusing.

Does the Onslaught & Metabolic overdrive psychic power stack / synergise?

A(ny) unit moving twice, plus 2 advances (rolling an extra D6 for Kraken) then a charge is fantastic.. and costs a one-per-turn psychic power + 1 CP.

Thoughts?

Razerous wrote:
Does the Onslaught & Metabolic overdrive psychic power stack / synergise?

A(ny) unit moving twice, plus 2 advances (rolling an extra D6 for Kraken) then a charge is fantastic.. and costs a one-per-turn psychic power + 1 CP.

Thoughts?

I'd say no. Overdrive specifically says you can't charge if you use it.