Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured

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**Mandragola**

I don't think hive tyrants benefit much from Jorm, because they'll still probably be falling back on their invulnerable saves against the kinds of things that are shot at them.

It's the guys without invulnerables who'll benefit, some of them by quite a lot I think. It's very hard to get cover for big units and monsters, but lots of guns will be resisted by having it.

**Traceoftoxin**

Spoletta wrote:

Also, Jorm and Kraken right now are seen as the best fleets because they have good match ups against gunlines, not because the other fleets are not as good. If the game were more assault centered, then Gorgon would be the best fleet.
That said, nothing forbids that after 2 or 3 more codices like ours (Orks and Khorne for example) the game will not become assault centered.

I completely disagree. Again, movement is our strongest attribute. I've faced assault based lists, and being able to control who is charging what, where, and when is farrrrr stronger than a less than 16% increase in successful wounds.

Assault meta makes kraken stronger, because then you will be almost impossible to lock down.

Jorm is still better than gorgon because it gives you deployment flexibility.

And the way game mechanics work, 40k will always be a shooting game.

**Drager**

str00dles1 wrote:
As I see it, id bet money tourney lists for GTs and such will be a Kronos firebase with them as the HQ to also hurt psykers and then Jorm for the flexibility, turn 1 gaunt alpha strike to eat screening units and put charge pressure on. Seems like the best combo, despite it being a mix of two fleets.

That's the way my tourney list is leaning certainly. 1 Spearhead of Kronos with the Warlord and a bunch of biovores and Hiveguard, a Jorm brigade with Rippers, spore mines and similar trash to start on the table, gants, pyrovores, Neurotropes (4 of those) and such for damage dealing on the drop. 2 Raveners units as taxis, then rounded out with a Supreme Command for more flyrants and something... can't remember the 3rd HQ I took. 14 CP to run all my strats. Nice overall force.

**pinecone77**

Voidwraith wrote:
Ranking Hive fleets is folly. You can do it if you say "take THIS particular list, apply the hive fleet adaptations to it, and then rank them", but if you're saying one hive fleet is ALWAYS better than another, you're setting yourself up.

The Hive Fleets are good/bad based on how you build your list(s) in concert with the adaptations, strats, relics, etc. That is all...

I think this is how to "rank" them, by use: Gunline? Kronos, or Jormondgandr, Fast rush? Kraken, Deep Strike? Jormondgandr, or Behemoth...etc the right tool, for the right job....

**Lance845**

Ive got a 4 day weekend coming up with the holiday here in the states. I intend to have the first post descriptions and some more notes all done by the end of it. Just a FYI for the community.

**Drager**

OK so I've had a weird list idea. I call this Pillbox.

Kronos Brigade:
3 Neurothropes,5 Ripper swarms, 1 dakkagaunt unit, 3 units of 5 Hiveguard, 3 mucolids, 3 units of 3 biovores.

Fortification Network:
3 Imperial Bunkers.

Step 1) Put the hiveguard in the bunkers.
Step 2) Put the Biovores behind the bunkers.
Step 3) Profit.

Not the best list ever, but hillarious.

**Dynas**

@Lance845: I havn't checked the OP in a while. But yeah, I really like the idea of rating units per hive fleet.

@TraceofToxin: Agree that Kraken is best, and will probably stay there even if the meta shifts. One reason. Movement is key, and that fleet is certainly the fastest.

Jormagundr HFA very nature goes against advancing and charging, as you lose your cover bonus. We have already established that speed and movement is key. If Kraken is great because of speed, how can Jorm be great for lack there of?

On that same note, you rank Jormungandr so high because of "tactical flexibility", which I assume you mean the DS potential, but you have to pay for that with CP just to put down a unit, when we can already DS plenty of great options. What infantry unit/combo would be worth using rather than just DS a 20x blob of GS with a Trygon or a 30x blob of hormies? The DS is best used to follow up with Assault and lock people into combat. Hordes do this best, which means troops, so you can wrap around and keep them from falling back.

I get it, the Raverner taxi certainly has some uses with "unlocking" Infantry rather than just troops, but we can already DS with Trygon/lictor taxis or genestealer nodes, or fliers, or put something in a pod, etc...

Having another unit grant the DS just doesn't seem that much more valuable , especially when I have to spend a CP for it, and when I land I don't get to move. If I try and charge off the DS and Fail, I lose my cover save, I have spent a CP, and am stuck there.

If i were to run this, it would be to take GS with Extended Carapace and walk them up the board, supported by a gunline of HG, Tyrannofex, Exocrines. The issue here is, we are now resorting to Tyranid gunline builds, which unfortunately, is not our strength.

If you field a gunline army with this list and end up facing guard conscript spam, they will blow you away.

**Ratius**

What if they destroy the bunkers?

**Marmatag**

Jormungandr is decent but you also lose the cover bonus when charging (succeed or fail), in addition to advancing.

Anything that ignores cover effectively removes your adaptation completely.

Saves in this game are mainly good against small arms fire. If something has -2 or better, getting a cover save can help, but it's not exactly reliable. For instance, you're going to contend with Eldar, and as an example they can easily have -4 and -5 guns. So your jorm T8 gets a 6+ where it wouldn't before because of Jorm.

If you had to write down the best 3-5 units in our codex, what would they be?

I don't know exactly what the order would be for you, but i can imagine that Hive Tyrants (flying) and Gene Stealers (advancing, charging) would be in there. Easily two of our top 5, possibly the best 2, cannot benefit from Jormungandr.

What's nice about Jormungandr is that it allows you to turn your command points into actual points. In most cases fielding a trygon is just going to cost you 170 or so points to watch it drop in, fail a charge, and be shot off of the table next turn. Paying CP to drop a trygon is not a terrible trade.

**Wakshaani**

I'm looking at Leviathon personally, with a thick Warrior core, lead by a Prime warlord (what?!) with maybe 1-2 more, topped off with Neurothropes for the rest of the command level.

No Monstrous creatures at all, or possibly only those under 10 wounds, to prevent wound decay.

The idea is to grind forward under the cover of Venomthropes, using god shooting that increases as you draw near, with some melee punches that can reach out when needed (Hormagaunts, GO!) and just out-tough the other guy. A blanket -1 to-hit, sticking in cover for +1 armor, topped with a 6+ FNP, they just aren't gonna fall over from normal counterattacks, letting the fight grind more and more my way over time.

At least, that's the theory.

Wish there was a good Relic for a non-Tyrant tho. Nothing really jumps up for a Prime. (Oh look! I can do 2 wounds instead of 1 on a 6+ wounding roll! How ... lovely?)

**Lance845**

There was a pretty big debate about whether you actually loose the jorm bonus if you fail your charge. It got nowhere.

That being said, the Jorm bonus isn't 1 effect always in effect, it's 2 effects that compliment each other.

Jorm is best used with a mix of shooting and melee. You have a back/mid/front line shooting that keeps the bonus along with a assault line that gets where it needs to be with the stratagem. You deep strike termagant bombs and pyrovores or neurothropes (if you want some front line smite immediately). along with hormagaunts, genestealers, the raveners and so on. Yeah, your assault guys loose the cover save, but they got where they needed to be really efficiently while staying off the board before their time to shine.

**Amishprn86**

Marmatag wrote:
Jormungandr is decent but you also lose the cover bonus when charging (succeed or fail), in addition to advancing.

Anything that ignores cover effectively removes your adaptation completely.

Saves in this game are mainly good against small arms fire. If something has -2 or better, getting a cover save can help, but it's not exactly reliable. For instance, you're going to contend with Eldar, and as an example they can easily have -4 and -5 guns. So your jorm T8 gets a 6+ where it wouldn't before because of Jorm.

If you had to write down the best 3-5 units in our codex, what would they be?

I don't know exactly what the order would be for you, but i can imagine that Hive Tyrants (flying) and Gene Stealers (advancing, charging) would be in there. Easily two of our top 5, possibly the best 2, cannot benefit from Jormungandr.

What's nice about Jormungandr is that it allows you to turn your command points into actual points. In most cases fielding a trygon is just going to cost you 170 or so points to watch it drop in, fail a charge, and be shot off of the table next turn. Paying CP to drop a trygon is not a terrible trade.

Best 5 for me are

HT
Genestealers
Fex's
Hive guard
Biovores

You can have Genestealers pop up on objectives for a 3+ save as Jormungandr as well (Infest nodes, not saying its great, but its an option) I mean there are insane about of options for Jormungandr, thats why i like that the best. I DS my Genestealers anyways (they always 1st to die in my Local) so a 4+ armor is better for me, I normally take them as Behemoth but i'm thinking about as Jormungandr (Ive been playing with 2 fleets 1 battalion os Jor 1 small Elite as Behemoth).

**Drager**

Ratius wrote:
What if they destroy the bunkers?

Lose 0-1 hive guard. Keep firing.

**Xenomancers**

IMO Kraken and Kronos are the clear winners - Levi and Jorm are mid tier - hydra and gorgon are trash.

**xmbk**

What Marmatag said about Flyrants and GS. Though Leviathan does help Trygons absorb shooting. Trygon and 2-3 Flyrants can overload.

The problem with Jorm is still "What's on the board when the other guy goes first?". I feel like it's another fleet that requires careful tailoring, not the all-comers flexible list.

**Marmatag**

Amishprn86 wrote:
Marmatag wrote:
Jormungandr is decent but you also lose the cover bonus when charging (succeed or fail), in addition to advancing.

Anything that ignores cover effectively removes your adaptation completely.

Saves in this game are mainly good against small arms fire. If something has -2 or better, getting a cover save can help, but it's not exactly reliable. For instance, you're going to contend with Eldar, and as an example they can easily have -4 and -5 guns. So your jorm T8 gets a 6+ where it wouldn't before because of Jorm.

If you had to write down the best 3-5 units in our codex, what would they be?

I don't know exactly what the order would be for you, but i can imagine that Hive Tyrants (flying) and Gene Stealers (advancing, charging) would be in there. Easily two of our top 5, possibly the best 2, cannot benefit from Jormungandr.

What's nice about Jormungandr is that it allows you to turn your command points into actual points. In most cases fielding a trygon is just going to cost you 170 or so points to watch it drop in, fail a charge, and be shot off of the table next turn. Paying CP to drop a trygon is not a terrible trade.

Best 5 for me are

HT
Genestealers
Fex's
Hive guard
Biovores

You can have Genestealers pop up on objectives for a 3+ save as Jormungandr as well (Infest nodes, not saying its great, but its an option) I mean there are insane about of options for Jormungandr, thats why i like that the best. I DS my Genestealers anyways (they always 1st to die in my Local) so a 4+ armor is better for me, I normally take them as Behemoth but i'm thinking about as Jormungandr (Ive been playing with 2 fleets 1 battalion os Jor 1 small Elite as Behemoth).

wtf? that strategy is so wasteful. Are you seriously using genestealers to park on an objective? My dude, that is a bad plan.

**Lance845**

xmbk wrote:
What Marmatag said about Flyrants and GS. Though Leviathan does help Trygons absorb shooting. Trygon and 2-3 Flyrants can overload.

The problem with Jorm is still "What's on the board when the other guy goes first?". I feel like it's another fleet that requires careful tailoring, not the all-comers flexible list.

How you spend your cp in deployment changes whats on the board when the other guys first. I do think you need to build your list to plan for that flexibility but thats the key component of its flexibility. You build tac and then adjust your deployments to meet your opponents list/game type/ terrain.

**Amishprn86**

Marmatag wrote:
Amishprn86 wrote:
Marmatag wrote:
Jormungandr is decent but you also lose the cover bonus when charging (succeed or fail), in addition to advancing.

Anything that ignores cover effectively removes your adaptation completely.

Saves in this game are mainly good against small arms fire. If something has -2 or better, getting a cover save can help, but it's not exactly reliable. For instance, you're going to contend with Eldar, and as an example they can easily have -4 and -5 guns. So your jorm T8 gets a 6+ where it wouldn't before because of Jorm.

If you had to write down the best 3-5 units in our codex, what would they be?

I don't know exactly what the order would be for you, but i can imagine that Hive Tyrants (flying) and Gene Stealers (advancing, charging) would be in there. Easily two of our top 5, possibly the best 2, cannot benefit from Jormungandr.

What's nice about Jormungandr is that it allows you to turn your command points into actual points. In most cases fielding a trygon is just going to cost you 170 or so points to watch it drop in, fail a charge, and be shot off of the table next turn. Paying CP to drop a trygon is not a terrible trade.

Best 5 for me are

HT
Genestealers
Fex's
Hive guard
Biovores

You can have Genestealers pop up on objectives for a 3+ save as Jormungandr as well (Infest nodes, not saying its great, but its an option) I mean there are insane about of options for Jormungandr, thats why i like that the best. I DS my Genestealers anyways (they always 1st to die in my Local) so a 4+ armor is better for me, I normally take them as Behemoth but i'm thinking about as Jormungandr (Ive been playing with 2 fleets 1 battalion os Jor 1 small Elite as Behemoth).

wtf? that strategy is so wasteful. Are you seriously using genestealers to park on an objective? My dude, that is a bad plan.

If it wins you the game its not bad... whats the problem?

I won my last game using Genestealers as a 2nd layer of Bubble wrap, i had my 5 MC's and 2 units of Hiveguard wrap with GS and Hgants (Hgants on outside) instead of charging them forward, b.c he was DSing 5 Jump Godly Melee units and he had vehicles/Heavy weapons out of charge range for 2 turns... so instead i DS some of my Heavy shootnig units and Devilgants.

B.c my Genestealers were there i won the game.

We are not talking about a vacuum, you wont fight the same list/person/army every time, sometimes you need to do something else.

And no i didnt do that, i was saying its an option, an option that if it wins you the game is a strong option.

**str00dles1**

Dynas wrote:
@Lance845: I havn't checked the OP in a while. But yeah, I really like the idea of rating units per hive fleet.

@TraceofToxin: Agree that Kraken is best, and will probably stay there even if the meta shifts. One reason. Movement is key, and that fleet is certainly the fastest.

Jormagundr HFA very nature goes against advancing and charging, as you lose your cover bonus. We have already established that speed and movement is key. If Kraken is great because of speed, how can Jorm be great for lack there of?

On that same note, you rank Jormungandr so high because of "tactical flexibility", which I assume you mean the DS potential, but you have to pay for that with CP just to put down a unit, when we can already DS plenty of great options. What infantry unit/combo would be worth using rather than just DS a 20x blob of GS with a Trygon or a 30x blob of hormies? The DS is best used to follow up with Assault and lock people into combat. Hordes do this best, which means troops, so you can wrap around and keep them from falling back.

I get it, the Raverner taxi certainly has some uses with "unlocking" Infantry rather than just troops, but we can already DS with Trygon/lictor taxis or genestealer nodes, or fliers, or put something in a pod, etc...

Having another unit grant the DS just doesn't seem that much more valuable , especially when I have to spend a CP for it, and when I land I don't get to move. If I try and charge off the DS and Fail, I lose my cover save, I have spent a CP, and am stuck there.

If i were to run this, it would be to take GS with Extended Carapace and walk them up the board, supported by a gunline of HG, Tyrannofex, Exocrines. The issue here is, we are now resorting to Tyranid gunline builds, which unfortunately, is not our strength.

If you field a gunline army with this list and end up facing guard conscript spam, they will blow you away.

That's why you do the 30 devilgaunt spam with DS. 180 shots, needing 4s then 3s witth reroll 1s to wound is you auto remove 2 units of conscripts super easily.

**Dynas**

Lance845 wrote:
xmbk wrote:
What Marmatag said about Flyrants and GS. Though Leviathan does help Trygons absorb shooting. Trygon and 2-3 Flyrants can overload.

The problem with Jorm is still "What's on the board when the other guy goes first?". I feel like it's another fleet that requires careful tailoring, not the all-comers flexible list.

How you spend your cp in deployment changes whats on the board when the other guys first. I do think you need to build your list to plan for that flexibility but thats the key component of its flexibility. You build tac and then adjust your deployments to meet your opponents list/game type/ terrain.

This is very true. I like to look at multiple units and build strike forces. Ie B Broodlord + lictor+Genestealers, there job is to hunt characters. Maximize chance to get feeder tendrils and free CP. Kill the character, activate feeder tendrils, get CP, activate overrun, if you reach another unit activate the fight again stratagem.

**Zimko**

Dynas wrote:
Lance845 wrote:
xmbk wrote:
What Marmatag said about Flyrants and GS. Though Leviathan does help Trygons absorb shooting. Trygon and 2-3 Flyrants can overload.

The problem with Jorm is still "What's on the board when the other guy goes first?". I feel like it's another fleet that requires careful tailoring, not the all-comers flexible list.

How you spend your cp in deployment changes whats on the board when the other guys first. I do think you need to build your list to plan for that flexibility but thats the key component of its flexibility. You build tac and then adjust your deployments to meet your opponents list/game type/ terrain.

This is very true. I like to look at multiple units and build strike forces. Ie B Broodlord + lictor+Genestealers, there job is to hunt characters. Maximize chance to get feeder tendrils and free CP. Kill the character, activate feeder tendrils, get CP, activate overrun, if you reach another unit activate the fight again stratagem.

Just remember you can't attack what you didn't charge. You can pile in in order to force them to fall back but you can't attack units that you didn't declare as charge targets.

**Olenos**

Hey guys quick Bat Rep for yall. ITC Mission 6. Deployment was the 9 inch radius center bubble and two corner deployments. I forget the number.

His List Chaos
Vanguard (renegades):
Sorc with force sword warp time prescience

3x10 noise bois with blasters.

Black Legion Spear head
1xAbbadabbadoo
3x3 Oblits

LOW detachment: Mortarion

My list
Kraken
Swarmlord Onslaught, catalyst
HT 4x devs, wings, catalyst, the horro

19x stealers
18x stealers
27xx devgants in trygon
1 x trygon

Kronos Batt
1x Neuro
1x Broodlord
20 x gants
3x rips
3x rips
6x Hiveguard

My deployment consisted of the 20 gants outlining the deployment zone of my base, with my Hiveguard, swarmlord, and a unit of stealers in the corner. Broodlord and unit of stealers to their right. Neurothrope deployed fairly far forward behind LOS behind termas as well. Everything else in reserves.

He stuck morty very far forward, 3 units of noise marines in the back on his objective, everything else in reserves.

He took first turn, dropped one unit of oblits on the right side, outside screen, and advanced some of the noise marines up. His intention was to warptime morty up and wipe a unit of stealers, but kronos such that down. His shooting took the whole unit of 20 terms, and a few genestealers. Morty then managed to fly over terrain and barely get into combat with my neurothrope who obviously died.

My turn, i use krak strat to move 20" towards noise marines, despite being in the back of my deployment they are now about a 5" charge away. Genestealers get right on top of oblits on right side. Trygon, HT, and gants come up on my left, his back field, going after noise marines. Swarmlord and broodlord go for morty. A couple of smites, and double shooting the HG take morty to 12 wounds(srsly holy gak this guy is hard to kill). Backfield shooting was not that great as the 2+ in cover made a lot of saves from HT and devgants.
Swarmlord and broodlord go in, genestealers all go in. Swarmy swings first, knocks morty down to 8. He interrupts, swings, finishes BL but puts no wounds on Swarmy. I then swing both units of stealers, wiping unit of noise marines, and leaving 1 oblit with 1 wound left. I use adrenal surge, fight with swarmlord again, knock morty down to 4.

His turn, he brings in 2 more units of oblits and Abbadon. Shooting all 6 oblits kills 5 HG, he rolled 1 for damage. His shooting kills a whole lot of gants and stealers in the back field despite only having like 15 marines left.

Combat, swarmlord takes 3 damage, and swings back, but Morty lives with 1 wound >.> Oblit gets finished off.

I move out of combat with morty, go after oblits that are right next to him. Stealers come back after killing oblit unit to help swarmlord. Smite finishes morty. Trygon and HT lay a lot pressure into his backfield. Genestealers charge into oblits, take a few wounds. Swarmlord also goes in, abbadon rerolls kick in and he takes a few wounds. He swings all in to abbadon, and leaves him with 1 wound >.>. Abby swings back but then does no damage cause 3++ is OP. Genestealers kill 2 oblits.

His turn 3 he goes all into swarmlord but swarmy lives with 1 wound to my turn.

I finish off abby, and get the charges into the back field noise marines with trygon and friends(although all his gant friends had died by then).

He concedes having 3 oblits, and 8 noise marines left on the field by the end. 20-12 victory for bugs.

Overall I think the biggest mistake I made was allowing those oblits and abbadon to deploy advantageously. I should've been able to prevent that kind movement with my rippers, but i left a large enough gap in my area denial right on my table edge. Kraken and Kronos are fantastic. So much mobilty, and a lot of great stuff.

Wondering if gargolyes might be strongly worth it. Unit of around 20 might be fantastic for moving shooting and assaulting all over the place.

Anway thanks for reading.

**Lance845**

Ok. I have been redoing my Jorm list a bit. 2k points limit

Battalion

HQ
Neurothrope
Prime - Deathspitter ScyTal

Troop
Hormagaunts x 30 - Adrenal Glanda
Warriors x 9 - Scytal and Deathspitters x 6 scytal and Venom Canon x 3
Warriors x 9 - Scytal and Deathspitters x 6 scytal and Venom Canon x 3

Elites
Hiveguard x 3 Impalers
Hiveguard x 3 Impalers
Red Terror

Fast Attack
Ravener x 4 - Rending Claws and Deathspitters
Ravener x 4 - Rending Claws and Deathspitters

Supreme Command

HQ
Malanthrope
Neurothrope
Neurothrope

Fortification
Sporescyste

This tallies up to 1832 points.

Deepstrikers - 7
Ravs, Ravs, Red, Warriors, Warriors, Prime, Horms

Deployed Normally - 7
Neuro, Neuro, Neuro, Malanthrope, Hive, Hive, Sporecyste,

So I still have 168 points to play with.

I am considering getting rid of the supreme command and taking a Vanguard and Outrider. by turning the 2 units of 4 Ravs into 3 units of 3. I would grab another Neurothrope at that point to put a another <10 w character on the table and balance out the deep strike and deployment. Just a thought.

I am totally up for any suggestions on how to fill it out or what to change to refine the list and optimize it. What do you guys think? I am also really considering dropping the sporecyste just to free up the 100ish points. Maybe add a batch of genestealers to the mix...

It's a lot deathspitters. Just... so many deathspitters. Hormagaunts to tie up their line and Raveners/Red Terror to provide some heavier hitting melee with their rending claws. I intend to put Hive Guard behind or into LoS blocking terrain, and sticking 2 neurothrops in front of a malanthrope giving me a -1 to hit 3++ character as the only valid target AFTER they get through the sporecyst.

Impalers and Venomcannons are my antitank. I think all those guns are enough heh.

**DaBraken**

Dynas wrote:
[...]
On that same note, you rank Jormungandr so high because of "tactical flexibility", which I assume you mean the DS potential, but you have to pay for that with CP just to put down a unit, when we can already DS plenty of great options. What infantry unit/combo would be worth using rather than just DS a 20x blob of GS with a Trygon or a 30x blob of hormies? The DS is best used to follow up with Assault and lock people into combat. Hordes do this best, which means troops, so you can wrap around and keep them from falling back.

I get it, the Raverner taxi certainly has some uses with "unlocking" Infantry rather than just troops, but we can already DS with Trygon/lictor taxis or genestealer nodes, or fliers, or put something in a pod, etc...

Having another unit grant the DS just doesn't seem that much more valuable , especially when I have to spend a CP for it, and when I land I don't get to move. If I try and charge off the DS and Fail, I lose my cover save, I have spent a CP, and am stuck there.

If i were to run this, it would be to take GS with Extended Carapace and walk them up the board, supported by a gunline of HG, Tyrannofex, Exocrines. The issue here is, we are now resorting to Tyranid gunline builds, which unfortunately, is not our strength.

If you field a gunline army with this list and end up facing guard conscript spam, they will blow you away.

The advantage of Jormungandr is not the abilty to bring some stuff close via deepstrike mechanics, its the power to put infantry models in reserve, which could normaly not go into reserves and bring them with any tunneler unit (ravener, mawloc, trygon, trygon prime) on the board. Instead of 1 unit of troops, you now can drop more than one unit of infantry on one spot.
For example having a trygon take a group of Jormungandr warriors and a Jormungandr Warrior Prime with him. Or one to x neurothropes for smite.This can be quite a big deal for some armys. It is the option to do so, which makes it worth the try.
I saw one batrep where one trygon brought devilgaunts, warriors and a prime in one go, having a very nasty blob of malice anywhere. normaly you would have to invest in 2 more trygons/Tyrannocyte to bring this, and he 'only' invested 2 cp.
(Don't ask me how he fit them there, but it somehow worked)

You can also combine it with mawlocs, who can deploy wherever they want. only restriction is to stay 9" away with the taxied infantry, or with Raveners, who are cheaper than the trygon and with the larger footprint can bring more stuff with them.

I think Jormungandr is not that bad, it is just not easy play, easy win. you just have to think a little more.

Lance845 wrote:
Ok. I have been redoing my Jorm list a bit. 2k points limit

Spoiler:

Battalion

HQ
Neurothrope
Prime - Deathspitter ScyTal

Troop
Hormagaunts x 30 - Adrenal Glanda
Warriors x 9 - Scytal and Deathspitters x 6 scytal and Venom Canon x 3
Warriors x 9 - Scytal and Deathspitters x 6 scytal and Venom Canon x 3

Elites
Hiveguard x 3 Impalers
Hiveguard x 3 Impalers
Red Terror

Fast Attack
Ravener x 4 - Rending Claws and Deathspitters
Ravener x 4 - Rending Claws and Deathspitters

Supreme Command

HQ
Malanthrope
Neurothrope
Neurothrope

Fortification
Sporescyste

This tallies up to 1832 points.

Deepstrikers - 7
Ravs, Ravs, Red, Warriors, Warriors, Prime, Horms

Deployed Normally - 7
Neuro, Neuro, Neuro, Malanthrope, Hive, Hive, Sporecyste,

So I still have 168 points to play with.

I am considering getting rid of the supreme command and taking a Vanguard and Outrider. by turning the 2 units of 4 Ravs into 3 units of 3. I would grab another Neurothrope at that point to put a another <10 w character on the table and balance out the deep strike and deployment. Just a thought.

I am totally up for any suggestions on how to fill it out or what to change to refine the list and optimize it. What do you guys think? I am also really considering dropping the sporecyste just to free up the 100ish points. Maybe add a batch of genestealers to the mix...

It's a lot deathspitters. Just... so many deathspitters. Hormagaunts to tie up their line and Raveners/Red Terror to provide some heavier hitting melee with their rending claws. I intend to put Hive Guard behind or into LoS blocking terrain, and sticking 2 neurothrops in front of a malanthrope giving me a -1 to hit 3++ character as the only valid target AFTER they get through the sporecyst.

Impalers and Venomcannons are my antitank. I think all those guns are enough heh.

Have you tried to put your Horms, warriors and prime around the 2x4 raveners in advance? Because i doubt they will all fit.
Edit:
Nevermind. Warriors are 1,5" bases right? Then it will work out, because you can fit 2 next to each other, side by side with the raveners.

**xmbk**

I like boneswords for the Warriors. Wouldn't swap out the sporecyst, it's toast if you go second, anyway. Won't always be able to hide the HG, I'm thinking they will be toast a lot of games, too . Flyers and DS will be your nemesis.

**buddha**

Olenos wrote:
Hey guys quick Bat Rep for yall. ITC Mission 6. Deployment was the 9 inch radius center bubble and two corner deployments. I forget the number.

His List Chaos
Vanguard (renegades):
Sorc with force sword warp time prescience

3x10 noise bois with blasters.

Black Legion Spear head
1xAbbadabbadoo
3x3 Oblits

LOW detachment: Mortarion

My list
Kraken
Swarmlord Onslaught, catalyst
HT 4x devs, wings, catalyst, the horro

19x stealers
18x stealers
27xx devgants in trygon
1 x trygon

Kronos Batt
1x Neuro
1x Broodlord
20 x gants
3x rips
3x rips
6x Hiveguard

My deployment consisted of the 20 gants outlining the deployment zone of my base, with my Hiveguard, swarmlord, and a unit of stealers in the corner. Broodlord and unit of stealers to their right. Neurothrope deployed fairly far forward behind LOS behind termas as well. Everything else in reserves.

He stuck morty very far forward, 3 units of noise marines in the back on his objective, everything else in reserves.

He took first turn, dropped one unit of oblits on the right side, outside screen, and advanced some of the noise marines up. His intention was to warptime morty up and wipe a unit of stealers, but kronos such that down. His shooting took the whole unit of 20 terms, and a few genestealers. Morty then managed to fly over terrain and barely get into combat with my neurothrope who obviously died.

My turn, i use krak strat to move 20" towards noise marines, despite being in the back of my deployment they are now about a 5" charge away. Genestealers get right on top of oblits on right side. Trygon, HT, and gants come up on my left, his back field, going after noise marines. Swarmlord and broodlord go for morty. A couple of smites, and double shooting the HG take morty to 12 wounds(srsly holy gak this guy is hard to kill). Backfield shooting was not that great as the 2+ in cover made a lot of saves from HT and devgants.
Swarmlord and broodlord go in, genestealers all go in. Swarmy swings first, knocks morty down to 8. He interrupts, swings, finishes BL but puts no wounds on Swarmy. I then swing both units of stealers, wiping unit of noise marines, and leaving 1 oblit with 1 wound left. I use adrenal surge, fight with swarmlord again, knock morty down to 4.

His turn, he brings in 2 more units of oblits and Abbadon. Shooting all 6 oblits kills 5 HG, he rolled 1 for damage. His shooting kills a whole lot of gants and stealers in the back field despite only having like 15 marines left.

Combat, swarmlord takes 3 damage, and swings back, but Morty lives with 1 wound >.> Oblit gets finished off.

I move out of combat with morty, go after oblits that are right next to him. Stealers come back after killing oblit unit to help swarmlord. Smite finishes morty. Trygon and HT lay a lot pressure into his backfield. Genestealers charge into oblits, take a few wounds. Swarmlord also goes in, abbadon rerolls kick in and he takes a few wounds. He swings all in to abbadon, and leaves him with 1 wound >.>. Abby swings back but then does no damage cause 3++ is OP. Genestealers kill 2 oblits.

His turn 3 he goes all into swarmlord but swarmy lives with 1 wound to my turn.

I finish off abby, and get the charges into the back field noise marines with trygon and friends(although all his gant friends had died by then).

He concedes having 3 oblits, and 8 noise marines left on the field by the end. 20-12 victory for bugs.

Overall I think the biggest mistake I made was allowing those oblits and abbadon to deploy advantageously. I should've been able to prevent that kind movement with my rippers, but i left a large enough gap in my area denial right on my table edge. Kraken and Kronos are fantastic. So much mobilty, and a lot of great stuff.

Wondering if gargolyes might be strongly worth it. Unit of around 20 might be fantastic for moving shooting and assaulting all over the place.

Anway thanks for reading.

Thanks for the report and grats on the win. How did you find the mixed batallions? I ran Kraken/Kronos a few games and found that it was easier to just run a single adaptation.

**Traceoftoxin**

Olenos wrote:
Hey guys quick Bat Rep for yall. ITC Mission 6. Deployment was the 9 inch radius center bubble and two corner deployments. I forget the number.

His List Chaos
Vanguard (renegades):
Sorc with force sword warp time prescience

3x10 noise bois with blasters.

Black Legion Spear head
1xAbbadabbadoo
3x3 Oblits

LOW detachment: Mortarion

My list
Kraken
Swarmlord Onslaught, catalyst
HT 4x devs, wings, catalyst, the horro

19x stealers
18x stealers
27xx devgants in trygon
1 x trygon

Kronos Batt
1x Neuro
1x Broodlord
20 x gants
3x rips
3x rips
6x Hiveguard

My deployment consisted of the 20 gants outlining the deployment zone of my base, with my Hiveguard, swarmlord, and a unit of stealers in the corner. Broodlord and unit of stealers to their right. Neurothrope deployed fairly far forward behind LOS behind termas as well. Everything else in reserves.

He stuck morty very far forward, 3 units of noise marines in the back on his objective, everything else in reserves.

He took first turn, dropped one unit of oblits on the right side, outside screen, and advanced some of the noise marines up. His intention was to warptime morty up and wipe a unit of stealers, but kronos such that down. His shooting took the whole unit of 20 terms, and a few genestealers. Morty then managed to fly over terrain and barely get into combat with my neurothrope who obviously died.

My turn, i use krak strat to move 20" towards noise marines, despite being in the back of my deployment they are now about a 5" charge away. Genestealers get right on top of oblits on right side. Trygon, HT, and gants come up on my left, his back field, going after noise marines. Swarmlord and broodlord go for morty. A couple of smites, and double shooting the HG take morty to 12 wounds(srsly holy gak this guy is hard to kill). Backfield shooting was not that great as the 2+ in cover made a lot of saves from HT and devgants.
Swarmlord and broodlord go in, genestealers all go in. Swarmy swings first, knocks morty down to 8. He interrupts, swings, finishes BL but puts no wounds on Swarmy. I then swing both units of stealers, wiping unit of noise marines, and leaving 1 oblit with 1 wound left. I use adrenal surge, fight with swarmlord again, knock morty down to 4.

His turn, he brings in 2 more units of oblits and Abbadon. Shooting all 6 oblits kills 5 HG, he rolled 1 for damage. His shooting kills a whole lot of gants and stealers in the back field despite only having like 15 marines left.

Combat, swarmlord takes 3 damage, and swings back, but Morty lives with 1 wound >.> Oblit gets finished off.

I move out of combat with morty, go after oblits that are right next to him. Stealers come back after killing oblit unit to help swarmlord. Smite finishes morty. Trygon and HT lay a lot pressure into his backfield. Genestealers charge into oblits, take a few wounds. Swarmlord also goes in, abbadon rerolls kick in and he takes a few wounds. He swings all in to abbadon, and leaves him with 1 wound >.>. Abby swings back but then does no damage cause 3++ is OP. Genestealers kill 2 oblits.

His turn 3 he goes all into swarmlord but swarmy lives with 1 wound to my turn.

I finish off abby, and get the charges into the back field noise marines with trygon and friends(although all his gant friends had died by then).

He concedes having 3 oblits, and 8 noise marines left on the field by the end. 20-12 victory for bugs.

Overall I think the biggest mistake I made was allowing those oblits and abbadon to deploy advantageously. I should've been able to prevent that kind movement with my rippers, but i left a large enough gap in my area denial right on my table edge. Kraken and Kronos are fantastic. So much mobilty, and a lot of great stuff.

Wondering if gargolyes might be strongly worth it. Unit of around 20 might be fantastic for moving shooting and assaulting all over the place.

Anway thanks for reading.

Nice batrep. Have you considered dropping 2 guns for mrc on the tyrant, and swapping broodlord for neurothropes?

**pinecone77**

Lance845 wrote:
Ok. I have been redoing my Jorm list a bit. 2k points limit

Battalion

HQ
Neurothrope
Prime - Deathspitter ScyTal

Troop
Hormagaunts x 30 - Adrenal Glanda
Warriors x 9 - Scytal and Deathspitters x 6 scytal and Venom Canon x 3
Warriors x 9 - Scytal and Deathspitters x 6 scytal and Venom Canon x 3

Elites
Hiveguard x 3 Impalers
Hiveguard x 3 Impalers
Red Terror

Fast Attack
Ravener x 4 - Rending Claws and Deathspitters
Ravener x 4 - Rending Claws and Deathspitters

Supreme Command

HQ
Malanthrope
Neurothrope
Neurothrope

Fortification
Sporescyste

This tallies up to 1832 points.

Deepstrikers - 7
Ravs, Ravs, Red, Warriors, Warriors, Prime, Horms

Deployed Normally - 7
Neuro, Neuro, Neuro, Malanthrope, Hive, Hive, Sporecyste,

So I still have 168 points to play with.

I am considering getting rid of the supreme command and taking a Vanguard and Outrider. by turning the 2 units of 4 Ravs into 3 units of 3. I would grab another Neurothrope at that point to put a another <10 w character on the table and balance out the deep strike and deployment. Just a thought.

I am totally up for any suggestions on how to fill it out or what to change to refine the list and optimize it. What do you guys think? I am also really considering dropping the sporecyste just to free up the 100ish points. Maybe add a batch of genestealers to the mix...

It's a lot deathspitters. Just... so many deathspitters. Hormagaunts to tie up their line and Raveners/Red Terror to provide some heavier hitting melee with their rending claws. I intend to put Hive Guard behind or into LoS blocking terrain, and sticking 2 neurothrops in front of a malanthrope giving me a -1 to hit 3++ character as the only valid target AFTER they get through the sporecyst.

Impalers and Venomcannons are my antitank. I think all those guns are enough heh.

Interesting list!

Nice to see Warriors getting some table time.

As long as you send Warriors along, I think the Deathspitters on the Raveners will be useful.

I'd suggest looking at fitting in a Distraction Tyrannofex.

a 2+ big gun Tyranno could eat up a weak Alpha.

And still be useful, if it gets to shoot.

**Olenos**

Traceoftoxin wrote:

Nice batrep. Have you considered dropping 2 guns for mrc on the tyrant, and swapping broodlord for neurothropes?

I have considered that, I think against MEQ it would be better but against GEQ I would rather have more shots. I really liked having 24 shots as even against the 2+ i was killing 3 a turn. This is obviously not very ideal but it still worked out. Rending claws probably wouldve killed another few a turn each. It is in all honesty a very tough call.

As for Neurothropes for Brood lords, that is definitely a possibility, but something I am still considering. Broodlord performance over the last few games has been less than stellar. I like taking a single neuro just so I can double up on the smite and psychic scream, but I think that Neuros lose value the more you take.

As for mixing hive fleets, the hive tyrants give you huge bubbles of synapse, so my kraken list had almost no trouble with synapse. The rippers were actually out of synapse from turn 1, but they are low priority targets so it didn't end up mattering at all. I think if you are able to keep them out of range, LOS or just low priority enough, then it shouldnt matter too much.

I may drop the brood lord and go with another neuro. Use the saved points to take something else like trygon prime. Not 100% sure though as I rather like that list.

**Drager**

I was just thinking about Neurothropes. 5 is 350 and, with Jormungandr can drop within 18" for nice smiting fun. That's 6d3 a turn, so about 12MW. Pretty nice. They are also pretty durable with W5 and the ability to heal a whole bunch back each turn on whichever ones are wounded, 1 wound healed per kill, so I would expect that your injured thrope will be back to full health every turn. Also once whatever screening units you have brought are dead they can cycle round so different guys are at the front. Any thoughts?