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Screening spinefist Gaunts have 1.5 attacks per turn once they’re tarpitting, and 0.5 of them are rerolling 1’s when there’s enough left, but horms have 2 attacks that all always reroll 1’s and benefit from toxin sacs, and better mobility to respond to mobile threats, and most importantly as a tarpit can exploit a 6” pile in to envelop a model to stop its unit from falling back


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I really want spinegaunts to be a thing, having fifty of the things from 3ed

 lindsay40k wrote:
Screening spinefist Gaunts have 1.5 attacks per turn once they’re tarpitting, and 0.5 of them are rerolling 1’s when there’s enough left, but horms have 2 attacks that all always reroll 1’s and benefit from toxin sacs, and better mobility to respond to mobile threats, and most importantly as a tarpit can exploit a 6” pile in to envelop a model to stop its unit from falling back


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I really want spinegaunts to be a thing, having fifty of the things from 3ed

I mean, you're not wrong at all, but in the context of a moving gunline, saving 30 pts per 30 man squad adds up. Buy 4 get 5th free! That may sound like a huge points investment, but it gives you the ability to completely block off your side of the board, as well as have 3 30 man squads dedicated solely to screening and being a moving wall while your shooting does damage. The question becomes whether or not 1500 pts of Tyranids shooting/hqs is enough to cripple an enemy army enough that 500 pts of gants can hold them off of objectives.

 lindsay40k wrote:
Screening spinefist Gaunts have 1.5 attacks per turn once they’re tarpitting, and 0.5 of them are rerolling 1’s when there’s enough left, but horms have 2 attacks that all always reroll 1’s and benefit from toxin sacs, and better mobility to respond to mobile threats, and most importantly as a tarpit can exploit a 6” pile in to envelop a model to stop its unit from falling back


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I really want spinegaunts to be a thing, having fifty of the things from 3ed

Horms are my love and my reason to play tyranids, but for screening purposes (i.e. waiting for enemy assaults) they are not good. 5 Points each are too much for a T3 6+, they will never get all their attacks in and surrounding an enemy assaulter is making them a favor, they WANT to stay in melee.

Spinegants can do all the shooting even if a single one of them is put in melee.

Yeah, the horms are best for surrounding shooting units, and with jormungandr, you're really not getting much use out of the trait for them.

Kraken horms on the offensive are an amazing unit to support stealers, but screening units exist to die and hold objectives. The cheaper, the better.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

But hey, you didn't bother doing the math and just thought you could throw out a seemingly impossible situation, and you proved my point.

You are right, a carnifex with coversave and -1 to hit is a tough nut to crack. I forgot that the Heavy venom cannon is not a 'heavy weapon' so the carnifex can be very fast and keep shooting at 3+. But a carnifex with all these upgrades are the same amount of points as a manticore but the basilisk is cheaper. So that's about 50/60 points more carnifex in this scenario. Meanwhile you forgot the heavy bolters.

I do the math when I simply see the weapon stats and thats enough. The rest is all tactics, baby.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

If you're not going to actually add anything meaningful to the thread, I'd appreciate if you stopped trying to tear down what other people post without providing any meaningful reasoning.

I now that you are in the "tyranid promotion team" and don't like anybody questioning your reasoning, but I also look at different tactics from different angles at a competitive level. So sorry if that means that I am bursting some hyped up tyranid players bubbles. Some might learn from that but the others simply call me a troll. Ah well...

The more i try to look into building a sw army, i like tyranid warriors more and more. 3 wounds and an assault heavy bolter. It is everything long fangs with actual heavy bolters and primaris marines wished they where.

I think a unit or 2 is fine, BS and DS is how i armed them.

Hey there, i'm making a new army for my GF (Christmas gift) and she plans on getting more stuff afterwards. Can anyone tell me what we should focus on getting first based on what we have?

Hive Tyrant
Flying Hive Tyrant
Brood Lord
Maleceptor

50 Termagaunts
40 Hormagaunts
4 Ripper Swarms
20 Gargoyles
10 Genestealers

3 Carnifex
Mawloc

Obviously we got a good bulk, but we're missing a lot of the special heavy supports and elites. So what are your thoughts? This is not for tournament play, so we aren't looking for another 30 genestealers

 Niiai wrote:
The more i try to look into building a sw army, i like tyranid warriors more and more. 3 wounds and an assault heavy bolter. It is everything long fangs with actual heavy bolters and primaris marines wished they where.

I posted "plays like space wolves" warrior list way back, but if you can find it it might help you decide.



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 vaklor4 wrote:
Hey there, i'm making a new army for my GF (Christmas gift) and she plans on getting more stuff afterwards. Can anyone tell me what we should focus on getting first based on what we have?

Hive Tyrant
Flying Hive Tyrant
Brood Lord
Maleceptor

50 Termagaunts
40 Hormagaunts
4 Ripper Swarms
20 Gargoyles
10 Genestealers

3 Carnifex
Mawloc

Obviously we got a good bulk, but we're missing a lot of the special heavy supports and elites. So what are your thoughts? This is not for tournament play, so we aren't looking for another 30 genestealers

Shooters, Exocrene, Tyrannofex, or Carnifexen....also some hive guard are always welcome.

@Carnifex:


@Harpy/Crone:

 DaBraken wrote:

But what Hive Fleet to choose? I would suggest Jormungandr (cover) if Air Wing detachment, because it has enough movement to not need the advance, and everything else does not benefit to them.

Jormungandr won't help them at all, since the adaptation specifically prohibits models with the Fly keyword from benefiting (makes logical sense, the "cover" bonus is to represent what amounts to trench warfare tactics). I'd probably use Kraken or Gorgon for an air wing detachment personally.

Played guard yesterday. He ran Catachan. That reroll random dice was STRONG. Everytime he did it he ended up with 11, or 12 shots out of 12 except once, where he rolled a 7. He rand 6x 10 man squads of inf, harker, 2 manticores, 2 basisilis, 2 LR BT, some sentinels, 2 astropaths, ratlings snipers.

I went pure melee, except for 30x devilgaunts.
Kraken HF.
Flyrant reaper obliterax, dev brainleech, warlord,
Swarmy
BL
2x 20 GS
30x Hormies with AG
30x Devilgants
Trygon
3x Rippers 3x
3x Spore Mines

He owned me, though in hindsight I probably deployed poorly.
Some observations:

If you place everything on the board, or nearly everything, there is simply to much to shoot at, even

I took Swarmlord without TG or Pod. Walked him across the board, he was basically the last thing to die turn 3. I conceded after that basically only having rippers and some gaunts left.

DS the 30x Devilgaunts wasn't as good as I thuoght. Its better to leave them on the board, walk them up and shoot. I will DS GS with the Trygon from now on.

Hormies are Fast! Especially with Karken. As observed, great for tieing up units. I locked in 4 of his infantry squads and still manage to daisy chain some gaunts to my Malantrhope.

I still like the Malanthrope, was able to get Prey Adaptation early by picking of a sentinel.

180 shots on T7 Devilgaunts (shoot twice strat) did 7 wounds. Probably won't try that again.

My BL, GS, HT, and Devilgaunts all failed 8 and 9" charges turn one. Even with rerolls.

I used kraken opportunitic advance on swarmy to get him to go 21", then failed Catalyst so no charge.

We did the mission which has the night rules wehre its -1 to hit over 18". He went first and killed a unit of GS. We discussed afterward, and think implemting the Night Fight rule to the player who goes first might help mitigate the going first advantage.

Also, I think first blood should be: if you kill a unit first turn (for each player) you get the VP, rather than whoever basically goes first is guarenetteed to get it.

Hey all, I've been thinking about starting a second army, I've been a little disappointed with how the orks are a one trick pony requiring lots of models, and no effective shooting phase if there are negatives to hit on the table. I've always really liked the Nids, but I'm concerned that they are a swarm army as well. Are there multiple ways to play nids effectively? Particularly, are they just as effective if you have fewer, but larger more powerful units?

In principle yes, what we call a "nidzilla" list can work.
I suggest leviathan or behemoth and take a good number of devourer fexes (no less than 3 at 2000, better more), or screens will be your doom.

Another option is the "No gribblies" way. Take only monsters and medium sized bugs. Warrios and Tguards are really good this edition and they are bad targets for small calibers, so you don't offer any good targets for bolter class weapon. Leviathan and Behemoth again can work, but also Kraken.

All of these can be completed with a Kronos detachment for ranged firepower if you want.





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Completely different topic, but i think that we are not giving enough consideration to Leviathan in our list building.

Sure, it doesn't have the speed of Kraken, but the 6+++ is better than the Jorm buff in many situations, especially for Tyrants.
It also has an incredibly powerful stratagem, +36% damage for 1 cp ON ALL UNITS ATTACKING THAT TARGET is sick! Melee flyrants love this, and i don't think that there are many targets that can survive a flyrant + GS leviacombo. I particularly like Haruspici in Leviathan, they have a lot to gain and are durable enough that adding a 6++ starts becoming a real thing.

Shrapnelbait wrote:
Hey all, I've been thinking about starting a second army, I've been a little disappointed with how the orks are a one trick pony requiring lots of models, and no effective shooting phase if there are negatives to hit on the table. I've always really liked the Nids, but I'm concerned that they are a swarm army as well. Are there multiple ways to play nids effectively? Particularly, are they just as effective if you have fewer, but larger more powerful units?

Nids have several good builds. Most of the dex is playable. Go to town!

Spoletta wrote:
In principle yes, what we call a "nidzilla" list can work.
I suggest leviathan or behemoth and take a good number of devourer fexes (no less than 3 at 2000, better more), or screens will be your doom.

Another option is the "No gribblies" way. Take only monsters and medium sized bugs. Warrios and Tguards are really good this edition and they are bad targets for small calibers, so you don't offer any good targets for bolter class weapon. Leviathan and Behemoth again can work, but also Kraken.

All of these can be completed with a Kronos detachment for ranged firepower if you want.

Behemoth player with plenty of Nidzilla stuff already. I’ve also got like a hundred Hormagaunts. Seems like Swarmcyte plus various Hormagaunt delivery systems is the best way to use them - tie up some heavy gunners, whilst piling in the Horms in ways that envelop at least one unit so the small arms fire is denied them as a target. I guess T-cytes with Stranglers are a nice delivery option, not sure if my big snake looking things should run as Mawlocs to troll deployment or Trygons to add Transport capacity

Unfortunately my best mate has got dozens of lascannons and keeps adding more

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Completely different topic, but i think that we are not giving enough consideration to Leviathan in our list building.

Sure, it doesn't have the speed of Kraken, but the 6+++ is better than the Jorm buff in many situations, especially for Tyrants.
It also has an incredibly powerful stratagem, +36% damage for 1 cp ON ALL UNITS ATTACKING THAT TARGET is sick! Melee flyrants love this, and i don't think that there are many targets that can survive a flyrant + GS leviacombo. I particularly like Haruspici in Leviathan, they have a lot to gain and are durable enough that adding a 6++ starts becoming a real thing.

I for one think Leviathan is better than Jorm. Even more so after the FAQ. I have a tourney next month and will give it a go. I have been doing behemoth and kraken mostly, but playing swarm armies takes way to long to move everything and the amount of dice it impossible to get a game even to turn 3 within 2 hours.

I think leviathan really needs lots of Synapse and Fliers for there stratagem to be effective. I only have 2 flyrants and 10 gargoyles. I will certainly put them in, and probably run a no Gribblies list, except GS, got to have some of those.

 Dynas wrote:

I think leviathan really needs lots of Synapse and Fliers for there stratagem to be effective. I only have 2 flyrants and 10 gargoyles. I will certainly put them in, and probably run a no Gribblies list, except GS, got to have some of those.

Doesn't have to be winged creatures. Tyrannocytes, Zoanthropes, Neurothropes, Venomthropes, and Malanthropes are all eligible as triggers for the stratagem.

Thanks for the report Dynas. Don't see the Malanthrope in your list. If he is there, then I'm surprised that the IG list did as well against you as it did. That one model really messes up their day since it makes them BS 5+.

Also, I would definitely recommend shooting the Gants at whatever screening units he has. That way, your Genestealers can Swarmy move into the stuff that matters and kill non-chaff units. Definitely won't be doing 7 unsaved wounds against guardsmen

Finally, I really like Jormungandr to deliver the Devilgants. Bring a unit of Raveners and you can grab a Neurothrope for 139 points and a patrol detachment (or do 179 points for an extra CP with 2 mucolids and an outrider). Way more efficient than a Trygon once they come in IMO, and of course the Neurothrope does Neurothrope things for pretty much the whole game.

 Strat_N8 wrote:

 Dynas wrote:

I think leviathan really needs lots of Synapse and Fliers for there stratagem to be effective. I only have 2 flyrants and 10 gargoyles. I will certainly put them in, and probably run a no Gribblies list, except GS, got to have some of those.

Doesn't have to be winged creatures. Tyrannocytes, Zoanthropes, Neurothropes, Venomthropes, and Malanthropes are all eligible as triggers for the stratagem.

Are we talking about the War on All Frounts Stratagem? I thought it had to be both a Flier and Non Flier both in melee with the same unit?


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 luke1705 wrote:
Thanks for the report Dynas. Don't see the Malanthrope in your list. If he is there, then I'm surprised that the IG list did as well against you as it did. That one model really messes up their day since it makes them BS 5+.

Also, I would definitely recommend shooting the Gants at whatever screening units he has. That way, your Genestealers can Swarmy move into the stuff that matters and kill non-chaff units. Definitely won't be doing 7 unsaved wounds against guardsmen

Finally, I really like Jormungandr to deliver the Devilgants. Bring a unit of Raveners and you can grab a Neurothrope for 139 points and a patrol detachment (or do 179 points for an extra CP with 2 mucolids and an outrider). Way more efficient than a Trygon once they come in IMO, and of course the Neurothrope does Neurothrope things for pretty much the whole game.

yeah I had a malanthrope, but he only had a 6" bubble, he shot the other stuff, as the Malanthrope was protecting swarmy and the Hormies and GS at turn 1 but he blasted those guys away even with the minus.

The devliery of the devilgants wasnt the problem. I man they have 18" guns so they are gonna be in range after I move them. Much better to get GS within 9". BUt yeah, shooting the tanks probably didn't help.

Yeah, I've thinking that Hive Fleet should be chosen for a specific purpose, Jormongandr lets Big Bugs tank Alphas with that awesome 2+ save, and is absolutely nessisary if you want multiples in a Tunnel. Leviathan Warrior swarms can be Fearsome, and I do think its been overlooked.

Here's my latest effort to make a playable Hydra List....

Hail Hydra! #2

HQ: Tervigon, WL: Regen, Relic Ymgarl, standard loadout
HQ: Tervigon, standard around 243 points
HQ: Neuro

Elite: Hive Guard+ Impalers, x3
Elite: Venothrope Brood, x3
Elite: Lictor

FA: Gargoyles, x14
FA: Spore
FA: Spore

Troops: Termagants, x20+ (10 Devilgaunts ) 120
Troops: as above
Troops: as above
Troops: Warrior Brood, RC, Deathspitters, Venom Cannon, x3 95
Troops: Rippers, x3
Troops: Rippers, x3

Heavy: Gunfex, HVC, Deathspitters, Spores, Enhances senses
Heavy: as above
Heavy: as above

Reserve 120 points for Hydra Strat

Honestly I think Hydra can only play as PL....if so you can add a Gunfex, or upgrade to a Tyranno-Gun

Brigade......+9 CP Battle forged +3 Total CP= 12

This about as "Hordey" as you can get , drown the foe in bodies, then bring whole units back for more! I've modified this list yet again, and it's posted in army lists.

Dynas wrote:Are we talking about the War on All Frounts Stratagem? I thought it had to be both a Flier and Non Flier both in melee with the same unit?

Yes. It just requires there be one unit that can Fly (i.e. has the Fly keyword) and another that cannot (i.e. doesn't have the Fly keyword). Tyrannocytes especially strike me as good enablers since they will usually be not far from conflict due to their role of delivering units and they are low enough threat to stick around. The various 'thropes also work, though being support oriented are harder to get in range to be useful.

pinecone77 wrote:
Here's my latest effort to make a playable Hydra List....

I think if you are going with Hydra you probably are better off forgoing monstrous creatures entirely in favor of various infantry units instead, both to take maximum advantage of the adaptation and to provide maximum threat overload. Most of the 'thropes already encourage large units with their special rules so they fit in nicely with Hydra and both Tyrant Guard and Hive Guard are capable of fulfilling the armor cracking roles that would normally be covered by monstrous creatures.

 Strat_N8 wrote:

Dynas wrote:Are we talking about the War on All Frounts Stratagem? I thought it had to be both a Flier and Non Flier both in melee with the same unit?

Yes. It just requires there be one unit that can Fly (i.e. has the Fly keyword) and another that cannot (i.e. doesn't have the Fly keyword). Tyrannocytes especially strike me as good enablers since they will usually be not far from conflict due to their role of delivering units and they are low enough threat to stick around. The various 'thropes also work, though being support oriented are harder to get in range to be useful.

pinecone77 wrote:
Here's my latest effort to make a playable Hydra List....

I think if you are going with Hydra you probably are better off forgoing monstrous creatures entirely in favor of various infantry units instead, both to take maximum advantage of the adaptation and to provide maximum threat overload. Most of the 'thropes already encourage large units with their special rules so they fit in nicely with Hydra and both Tyrant Guard and Hive Guard are capable of fulfilling the armor cracking roles that would normally be covered by monstrous creatures.

Ah i overlooked that. I double checked and thought it was FLIER rather than FLY. That does make it better. THought I think I would likely only use it with Gargoyles and Flyrant, harpies, crones. Not sure if I would want to risk the neuros or venoms.... THe tyrannocyte is an an interesting choice.... Didn't even think of charging those.

Small update to the quick reference sheets. I didn't have the extended/degrading stat lines in for the Exocrine before. Fixed now. Im going to be doing a final print of my small format version today and laminating it. Il take some pictures and show off the final product tonight.

Hi guys,

New to the hive

About to make my first order of Nids for a local escalation league!
But I need some help at the 500pts mark! :(

I've posted my list here : https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/747390.page#9760069

Any help would be much appreciated. (Im trying not to waste money on units I wont use)

C

 Lance845 wrote:
Small update to the quick reference sheets. I didn't have the extended/degrading stat lines in for the Exocrine before. Fixed now. Im going to be doing a final print of my small format version today and laminating it. Il take some pictures and show off the final product tonight.

Yeah i already laminated mine, with the old degrading, but as long as I know, to look up that guy. . : ) its very helpful.

 Dynas wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Small update to the quick reference sheets. I didn't have the extended/degrading stat lines in for the Exocrine before. Fixed now. Im going to be doing a final print of my small format version today and laminating it. Il take some pictures and show off the final product tonight.

Yeah i already laminated mine, with the old degrading, but as long as I know, to look up that guy. . : ) its very helpful.

Nice.

I mean the nice thing about this is even if you don't have a printer going to an office supply store and having it printed/laminated costs... $3.00? Dirt cheap as far as gaming materials go.

I read something about the designers realizing nid MC were not surviving as intended and may be gaining some extra wounds down the line. It will be easy enough to update the sheet and reprint for cheap.


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mcsheehy wrote:
Hi guys,

New to the hive

About to make my first order of Nids for a local escalation league!
But I need some help at the 500pts mark! :(

I've posted my list here : https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/747390.page#9760069

Any help would be much appreciated. (Im trying not to waste money on units I wont use)

C

Neurothropes are rock solid psykers.

Hive tyrants can be great, but best bring in 2+ quantities.

I would check the OP about how good Hormagaunt 6" pile in is. It's interesting and enlightening in maximizing your charge/fight phase. Even if you don't use Hormagaunts.

What is your thoughts on the Toxicrene? I really like the re-roll to wound but is he a competitive option? Pretty cheap for under 160 pts.

 lindsay40k wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
In principle yes, what we call a "nidzilla" list can work.
I suggest leviathan or behemoth and take a good number of devourer fexes (no less than 3 at 2000, better more), or screens will be your doom.

Another option is the "No gribblies" way. Take only monsters and medium sized bugs. Warrios and Tguards are really good this edition and they are bad targets for small calibers, so you don't offer any good targets for bolter class weapon. Leviathan and Behemoth again can work, but also Kraken.

All of these can be completed with a Kronos detachment for ranged firepower if you want.

Behemoth player with plenty of Nidzilla stuff already. I’ve also got like a hundred Hormagaunts. Seems like Swarmcyte plus various Hormagaunt delivery systems is the best way to use them - tie up some heavy gunners, whilst piling in the Horms in ways that envelop at least one unit so the small arms fire is denied them as a target. I guess T-cytes with Stranglers are a nice delivery option, not sure if my big snake looking things should run as Mawlocs to troll deployment or Trygons to add Transport capacity

Unfortunately my best mate has got dozens of lascannons and keeps adding more

Trygon is the best unit in the codex really. You make him work by saturation. My standard list uses 2 flying hives and ether a 9 man warrior with BS and 3x VC and 6x DS or a 30 man dakka gants - perfect double shoot stratagem use ether way. Insane alpha strike. He hits like a truck too when you get him in there. So the trygon is a threat but 2 Hives and 9 warriors with catalyst also present a huge threat total - and 20 geens charging with kraken (what I play) is capable of a charge turn 1 too if you get luck with advance rolls of a 5 or 6. ususally they shoot the Trygon but it's because they have to - the trygon hits way harder than a Hive tyrant. I want the Tyrants around later in the game anyways because turn 2 they can pretty much charge anything. Trygon makes moves like that possible. Nether warriors or dakka gants would be playable without the trygon. The Tcyte is just too expensive for what it does. Really the only reason I ever take one is to bring the Swarmlord and still then I am using a trygon to deploy 20 geenstealers in that set up. It's just too bad it has bs5+, at 4+ it might be worth it.


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NackaNid wrote:
What is your thoughts on the Toxicrene? I really like the re-roll to wound but is he a competitive option? Pretty cheap for under 160 pts.

I think he's pretty much terrible. A foot tyrant is way better than him and costs about the same and plays about the same way too. He's also heavy support - I'd rather take Carnifex/Tfex/Exocrine there. If you want a big close combat monster trygons are really the best for that because they deep strike. I've been tying around with the haurospex and find him to be decent - I think he performs better than the toxicrine. I've never used a Toxicrine. If you havn't used it yet - I think a malceptor I think would be more usable - it's actually our best psyker with that +1 to cast so can use him to cast catalyst which seems to be the hardest to get off - he also does d6 smite on a roll of a 10.

I have been doing the math and it appears that the Rupture Tyrannofex is better versus Toughness 8, 3+ chassis than the Exocrine. I am wondering why more people are not taking it?

It seems that the points per wound are the following:

Rupture Tyrannofex with Stinger Salvo

6 shots hitting on 4's = 3 hits, 2 wound. Times .833 get by the save times 3.5 (for d6 wounds) = 5.83 from the main gun
8 shots from Stinger salvo = 4 hit, 1.33 wound time .5 get by the save = .66 from the second gun

Total cost per wound is 40.82 if you only count the main gun or 36.67 if you count the second gun. That is some good bang for the points! Great range on the main gun too

Exocrine = 12 shots, 8 hit, 2.66 wound, 2.21 get by the save, causing 4.44 wounds. That is 48.65 points per wound.

Seems like taking one unit of 6 Hive guard (54 points per 1 point of damage), and double shooting with the stategem (27 points per wound), and the Rupturefex would be best ranged antitank options.

Wanted to know your thoughts?

Thanks!