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2018/01/10 20:19:42
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Strat_N8 wrote: Small team tournament coming up at the end of the month and I'm not sure what to run. I've been paired up with a grey knight player so they are leaning on me to provide bodies and anti-tank. Problem is, I only have 1000 points to work with which limits some of the build options.
Currently I'm leaning towards one of the following possibilities:
1. 'stealer shock: Just rush the foe with as many Genestealers as I have, using either Kraken or Jormungandr to deliver them. Doesn't leave much for anti-tank but does put a lot of fast bodies on the board to go after gunlines.
2. Kronos gunline: 12x Hive Guard with some Warriors and Termagants as support. Lots of anti-tank but a bit static.
3. Jormungandr 'fex spam: However many Carnifexes I can cram in to double down on 2+ save bodies (Grey Knight player is running Draigo + Terminators as the bulk of their force). Very few bodies though...
4. Hydra gaunt spam: Just flood the board with a mix of Hormagaunts/Termagants/Gargoyles with a couple Neurothropes to provide synapse and leave a few points aside for respawn/outflank.
5. Mechanized GSC: Doesn't bring a ton of bodies but Goliaths are fairly resilient and provide mobility. GSC infantry in general are more lethal than Tyranid infantry, but doubles down on fragility.
Biggest problem is that I have no idea what the meta will be for the team tournament. Most of the players don't attend our weekly league nights and some are from out of town. The last one I was able to attend had a heavy slant towards gunlines, but was much earlier in the edition cycle and prior to the codex release (used the aforementioned mechanized GSC for that one).
I think Kraken stealer shock or the Kronos guidelines are the most effective of your choices but I'd say play what you enjoy playing....that's the greatest thing about our current codex there are very few "wrong" choices.
2018/01/10 20:21:55
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Strat_N8 wrote: Small team tournament coming up at the end of the month and I'm not sure what to run. I've been paired up with a grey knight player so they are leaning on me to provide bodies and anti-tank. Problem is, I only have 1000 points to work with which limits some of the build options.
Currently I'm leaning towards one of the following possibilities:
1. 'stealer shock: Just rush the foe with as many Genestealers as I have, using either Kraken or Jormungandr to deliver them. Doesn't leave much for anti-tank but does put a lot of fast bodies on the board to go after gunlines.
2. Kronos gunline: 12x Hive Guard with some Warriors and Termagants as support. Lots of anti-tank but a bit static.
3. Jormungandr 'fex spam: However many Carnifexes I can cram in to double down on 2+ save bodies (Grey Knight player is running Draigo + Terminators as the bulk of their force). Very few bodies though...
4. Hydra gaunt spam: Just flood the board with a mix of Hormagaunts/Termagants/Gargoyles with a couple Neurothropes to provide synapse and leave a few points aside for respawn/outflank.
5. Mechanized GSC: Doesn't bring a ton of bodies but Goliaths are fairly resilient and provide mobility. GSC infantry in general are more lethal than Tyranid infantry, but doubles down on fragility.
Biggest problem is that I have no idea what the meta will be for the team tournament. Most of the players don't attend our weekly league nights and some are from out of town. The last one I was able to attend had a heavy slant towards gunlines, but was much earlier in the edition cycle and prior to the codex release (used the aforementioned mechanized GSC for that one).
Some gaunts, 50/50 dakka and naked. Or gargoyles.
Some hive guards.
2 Neurontrope to provide synapse at 1000 points.
Rippers for objectives.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/10 20:22:15
Have you looked at Biovores? Run 2 Broodlord and 2 units of 20 Genestealers w/ toxin sacs (why not, might as well make the 6+ to wound a -4 AP and 2 dmg) and then fill the rest of the points with Biovores.
That gives you anti-infantry and basically anti-everything if the Biovores stay around long enough. Jormungadr would probably suit the Biovores more but going Kraken to tie things up isn't a bad idea.
So I posted a version of this in the Army lists but got no response so I thought I would try here as I have seen others doing.
This list is for an upcoming 1500 pt tourniment using the CA Beta rules and scoring system will be using the ITC 2017 system for major and minor wins or losses.
I plan to start with the Nero and Hive guard in the most centeral/LOS blocking spot I can find and bubble wrap with the small gaunt squad and the 3 Mucilids. The Mucilids will advance up the board asap as a distraction carnifex (they look really scary :-) )That's my 6 min squad boots on the ground. The rest is all reserved for DS.
I'm gonna give the Gun Tyrant (who is my warlord) The Jog WL trait that allows itself and all friendlies within 3" to ignore cover. I plan to use Jog strat to bring in the Genestealers and the Dev Gaunts. Both tyrants will come in close to the Dev Gaunts if possable which means they will all ignore cover. Keep the WL Tyrant behind the Gaunts and of course assault asap with genes and Raviners. 2CP reserved for Genes and Dev gaunts, I plan to use 4 on the shoot twice strat(between the Dev gaunts and Hive guard over first 2 turns) and the final is for an emergency re-roll.
Does this stand up vs most 1500pts lists? Do I have any major holes in my list that need plugging? Thx in advance.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/10 21:55:22
2018/01/11 06:34:30
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
If you're using Jorm stealers, the extended carapace makes a really, really big difference vs non-ap weapons.
But then you've got to accept that your stealers are going to have to eat a full round of shooting, otherwise you're going to waste the jorm buff, and then the cost for the carapace isn't as worth it.
2018/01/12 02:58:51
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Using jorm with pure carnifex is a waste of jorms potential in my opinion. You really want that strat to shine by deepstriking some great infantry. And preferably have options built into your list so you can adjust whos doing what to match your opponent.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2018/01/12 03:07:55
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Spoletta wrote: This is the kind of list where i would really try to find the points for the extended carapaces on the stealers.
I looked at the ext carapice but my points are very tight as it is and I'd need to loose something important or necessary (12 units 6 on the board 6 DS all needed).
2018/01/13 02:26:30
Subject: Re:Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Niiai wrote: Can somebody help me with my list? I have painted them in leviathan so that is what I am playing. I really want to field a core of warriors. I think some genestealer cult hammerants can help out making it difficult for my opponent.
Suggestion in the list are welcome.
6 venom cannons, 6 impalor cannons and 8 hammerants are my anti tank.
14 devilgaunts, 12 devourers are my anti infantery.
The gaunts can screen alpha strikes, in a pich one of the rippers also, (Rippers are there to grab obnjectives.)
10 CP. However, I am running 7 HQ at 2000 points, that is way to many. I feel I need more bodies on the tables, less toys.
Aberrants [14 PL, 264pts] . Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
++ Total: [100 PL, 2000pts] ++
I think i would try to merge the devilgauntrs into on eunit of 30 with 20 devour, 10 fleshborers. NOt familiar with aberrant so i cant comment there. YOur HQ overload seems to be due to the GSC. how set are you on taken those? You have about a 1/4 of your list devoted to GSC which isnt going to get get any benefits form the tyranid codex HFA, stratagems, etc...
Thanks for the repply. Hammerants are S10, well worth 450 points in cults. I am a bit unsure about the 2. magus, but giving something less aim is good. As does my nid psyker.
I think the following list should do better. Dipping into IG gives me lascannons and mortars that should help clear away chaff, and help kill big stuff. Hive guards are fine and all but i want that s9, and the s10 the hammerants bring.
Aberrants [14 PL, 264pts] . Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
Aberrants [14 PL, 264pts] . Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
. Aberrant: Power Hammer
SO through genestealer cults, (or with cult) we can get a leman russ. How does the russes measure up against exoscrhines and tyranofexes on the mathhammer side?
shadowfinder wrote: How have people found big 9 man unit with 3 Venoms or 3 Barbed any good? Backed by a Prime?
Looking at kronos or Jormn for Hive fleets.
Ive been testing 2 units (6 and 9) backed by a prime with venoms/deathspitters in a Jorm list. They work great. You bring other screens along in the Rav tunnel to keep them out of melee. while pooring out a god awful amount of heavy bolter shots and anti tank. The Rav tunnels keep them off the board if you loose first turn and the deepstrike lets you place them right where you need to to make sure everything can target what needs to be targeted.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
2018/01/14 18:14:47
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Hey guys was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on my first tyranid list I've ever put together. Been playing marines (BA and UM) for years but always wanted a Xenos army and I finally finished building what I have in this list and looking forward to my first game this week. I'm planning on eventually adding in a flying Hive tyrant once they come back in stock in my area as somewhat an answer to fliers. Any advice/ tips would be much appreciated thanks!
Plan is to keep one of the neurothropes in the back with the rupturefex's and hiveguard for synapse and as a second catalyst backup incase the death of the second neurothrope who will advance with the stealers, supported by broodlord, and Malanthrope.
purchased malanthrope before CA thinking about replacing him with 3 venomthropes instead. originally wanted him with the Kronos gun line but realized the stealers are quite vulnerable when you don't get first turn and they get shot at before getting catalyst off
Gunna throw the horror on broodlord since he should be in a better forward position to cast on enemy units.
Trygon will pop out with devilgaunts to eliminate any screens. If he fails charge with cp reroll hopefully the -1 relic will keep in alive while also making my opponent choose to shoot the trgon in his face or my rupturefex's.
Finally the rippers can either be used deny/ control enemy DS from possible alpha strikes, or late game objective grabbers depending on the enemy.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/01/14 20:04:22
Niiai wrote: SO through genestealer cults, (or with cult) we can get a leman russ. How does the russes measure up against exoscrhines and tyranofexes on the mathhammer side?
The damage output is very comparable. A battlecannon + Lascannon [Brood Brothers] regiment LRBT costs 164, and averages 4.08 damage against T7/3+, for a cost efficiency of 40.2 pts/damage. Compared to 40.45 for Impaler guard, 40.82 for rupturefex, and 43.2 for exocrines. The LRBT is much more durable per point, even with all 3 being T8/3+. LRBT are 13.6 pts/wound, Rupturefex 17pts/wound, and Exocrines at 18 pts/wound. The LRBT is more mobile, being able to move up to 10" without BS penalty, and up to 5" while still getting to double tap compared to 6" and 0" for the Tyranno, and 0" and 0" for Exo.
AMLRBT have access to a few other buffs, but nids also have access to -1 to hit aura, +1 sv/reroll 1s, and their stratagem.
As a choice for nids, I'd say it's really up to what you want to play and specific roles in your force, and what else you have. Straight AM are a bit better than the Nid big gun beasts, though I think even with catachan I'd rather have Hive Guard.
2018/01/14 23:37:07
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
The tyranofex rupture cannon seems so bad though. If you happen to meet a T8 model that you need ti kill. Yes, that is good. But for the most part the flamer would be better. (I am running some warriors, so he can walk up with them.) But the LRBT is such a good allrounder, and I suspect, comes out better vs T8 then the exoshrine. And it is better vs most lists then the rupture cannon tyranofex who is a bit bad if you don't meet a T8 unit you need to hurt fast.
Niiai wrote: The tyranofex rupture cannon seems so bad though. If you happen to meet a T8 model that you need ti kill. Yes, that is good. But for the most part the flamer would be better. (I am running some warriors, so he can walk up with them.) But the LRBT is such a good allrounder, and I suspect, comes out better vs T8 then the exoshrine. And it is better vs most lists then the rupture cannon tyranofex who is a bit bad if you don't meet a T8 unit you need to hurt fast.
I mean, damage wise the rupture cannon is super comparable to the LRBT if it doesn't move. It's about half as effective if it has to move. This is without figuring in the stinger salvoes, which I'm sure are pretty negligible (I'd guesstimate around .3 wounds on average vs any 3+ vehicle).
Also, the exocrine is ~51 pts/damage compared to 49 pts/damage vs t8.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/15 00:00:09
2018/01/15 00:39:10
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Niiai wrote: SO through genestealer cults, (or with cult) we can get a leman russ. How does the russes measure up against exoscrhines and tyranofexes on the mathhammer side?
The damage output is very comparable. A battlecannon + Lascannon [Brood Brothers] regiment LRBT costs 164, and averages 4.08 damage against T7/3+, for a cost efficiency of 40.2 pts/damage. Compared to 40.45 for Impaler guard, 40.82 for rupturefex, and 43.2 for exocrines. The LRBT is much more durable per point, even with all 3 being T8/3+. LRBT are 13.6 pts/wound, Rupturefex 17pts/wound, and Exocrines at 18 pts/wound. The LRBT is more mobile, being able to move up to 10" without BS penalty, and up to 5" while still getting to double tap compared to 6" and 0" for the Tyranno, and 0" and 0" for Exo.
AMLRBT have access to a few other buffs, but nids also have access to -1 to hit aura, +1 sv/reroll 1s, and their stratagem.
As a choice for nids, I'd say it's really up to what you want to play and specific roles in your force, and what else you have. Straight AM are a bit better than the Nid big gun beasts, though I think even with catachan I'd rather have Hive Guard.
I second the Hive Guard. They work out as 40.4 pts per damage, don’t require line of sight and can double tap for 2 CP
2018/01/15 00:56:03
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
To me the Tyrannofex is best served with Acid Spray. The range is solid, and we don't have much in our toolkit to fight Flyers, should the need arise.
For anything else, Hive Guard are better overall shooting in my opinion.
I bought a kit of warriors for small 500 point games, and slow grow /casual. I'll be honest. I've never even bothered with them, because a 4+ means you die super fast, and previously instant death made them a joke. My thoughts on them:
1. Boneswords are the best things for them. It's only 2pts, and they get an extra attack with decent AP.
2. In regards to guns, for 1 point more than a devourer i can get -1ap and strength 5.
How are those 2 options not auto-take? I suppose if i was really attempting to build a list around warriors with a Tyranid prime i would work in the venom cannon, but i'm not, so little point. Or am i totally off here?
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
2018/01/15 02:34:31
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
1. 18" acid spray is actually really long. You do not need or want a pod for him.
2. He only fires 2d6 overwatch. 4d6 is if he shoots in the shooting phase.
For his current cost, I don't know if i'll bring him. But with all the minus to hit, being able to reliably deal any damage at range is nice. In ITC his range will allow him to bully 2 objectives no problem.
Galas wrote: I remember when Marmatag was a nooby, all shiney and full of joy. How playing the unbalanced mess of Warhammer40k in a ultra-competitive meta has changed you
Bharring wrote: He'll actually *change his mind* in the presence of sufficient/sufficiently defended information. Heretic.
2018/01/15 03:18:37
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Marmatag wrote: That depends on your list, but a couple things:
1. 18" acid spray is actually really long. You do not need or want a pod for him.
2. He only fires 2d6 overwatch. 4d6 is if he shoots in the shooting phase.
For his current cost, I don't know if i'll bring him. But with all the minus to hit, being able to reliably deal any damage at range is nice. In ITC his range will allow him to bully 2 objectives no problem.
So I believe his normal shooting is doubled 4d6 is is standing still.
2018/01/15 04:18:18
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
Hey is anyone here going to LVO? Any lists you want to share? Or keeping it secret?
Also played a game today with a jormungandr gunline vs a chaos gunline, with my twist being a unit of 29 hormagaunts running up the field with swarm lord boosting them. I was able to get into combat with a lot of his stuff with them for two turns so I was able to create a huge advantage for myself and roll him over in a few turns.
Tyrannofexes are quite good, I was pretty happy with their performance. One with rupture cannon and one with acid spray both did quite well. 8 heavy bolter shots a turn each aint to shabby either.
2018/01/16 17:20:04
Subject: Codex Tyranids Tactica: The Shadow Falls, The Hive Fleets Gather. Worlds Devoured
I had a 3 round ITC tourney this weekend. I went 2-1. Beat Deathguard and Tau, lost to "that" Eldar list. There were 12 players, I placed 5th. I was the only Nids player.
I ran Leviathain. I found having the extra 6+ pretty much all the time as only the canrifexs and GS had to worry about staying in Synapse. The GS ran with the Trygon Prime (but normally got the 5+ from Catalyst).
Flyrant, Devoureers with BLW, Bonesword and whip Reaper of Obliterax, WLT perfectly adapted.
Flytrant with HVC, Rending claws
Tyranid Prime with SY and Deathspitter
Malanthrope
OOE 2 Carnifex with ST and HVC (probably go all dakka next time)
2 units of 6 warriors (ST, Deathspitters x4, 2x VC)
Genestealers 19x
Trygon Prime
Rippers 3x 3 units
For 2ndarys:
I did Table Quarters every game, it was a good easy points. The other times it was either Headhunter or Big Game Hunter or Old school. I found most of my opponents to MEU rather than larget units.
Eldar: lost 17-5 I went first. 6 objectives with diagonel deployment. He had a unit of 9x bikes which were allstars. He screened well. He interrupted my DS genestealers with reroll wounds with Dark Reapers and wiped them. That sucked. His bikes zipped behind me. He had lots of pyskers too, Kronos would have helped, even though he perilled 3x.
Only made it through 2 full turns.
Deathgurad: Won 19-5, I went first again. 4 objectives. He blobbed up. I DS my flyrants on one flank, GS and Trygon on the other, and marched up with a blob of warriors, carnifex, malanthrope and prime. The GS made their charge off DS and tied up a lot of his characters. Eating them and regain CP. Also fighiting again was useful. Game went 2 full turns, but without him zoning me it was a slaughter.
Tau: Won 17-13, close game. he went first. Hammer and anvil deployment with no LoS blocking terrain. FML.
he killed 7 warriors turn 1. Wounding a carnifex. I advanced forward to get in range. I use metabolic overdrive on Old One Eye with advance and catalyst him to get a turn 1 charge. Flyrant DS each flank. GS deepstrike in the middle.
Now, when OOE charge his ENITRE army got overwatch againt OOE for being within 6" of a unit I declared a charge on. I havn't played Tau yet, and was very surpirse by this. He brought him down to 3 wounds.
It was a tight fought game, he took Head Hunter and Big Game hunter taking out flyrant, OOE, Trygon. I popped a few tanks, one was down to 1 wound. This game went through 4 full turns.
Overall: Leviathain was actually good, I wanted to try something without hordes of infantry to move because I was concerned with time. Kronos would have been helpful for Eldar for sure.
Carnifexs should either be all shooty or all melee, going split seemed to be a waste.
Warriors actually did pretty good. With the primes buff and the malanthrope casting its shroud, with the FnP 6+ I had a solid core that could put out decent fire. And with the amount of MEU armies, the higher strenth and AP seemed better than mass devourer shots.
GS are great. Acid maws are great. Nothing new here.
Trygon Prime didnt get into combat once, he was just an expensive taxi. I was going for synapse buff for the 6+, but ended up pretty much always giving the GS catalyst, so a regular trygon would have been fine.
Rippers are a MUST. 3 units can easily grab all the table quarters. Getting 2ndary points is something that should not be underestimated for ITC.
Flyrant with Repear of Obliterax & TS is amazing! You can easily one shot most tanks and High Wound models. Especially with the WLT allowing me one free reroll. I used it for wounds or Armor Saves every time.
Nids also give a lot of headhunter and big game hunter dual points (Flyrants, Trygons, etc...) I had 6 characters in my list. So be aware of the amount of points you are going to potentially give up.
Overall I think nids are in a good place. I would definitely change my list, and if you are going competitive I think at least a detachment of Kronos for the pysker deny is a must. With eldar and chaos running around, and smite spam, its vital.
10000+
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
Cool battle report. Thanks for the write up. I have some questions:
Heavy venom cannon flying hive tyrant. How where these? I have a hard time deciding on the HV cannon vs dakka. 24 shots or 12 shots is so good.
How did the carnifexes perform? Do theyneed old one eye to be good?
While old 8ne eye can not be targeted, is he not a bit expensive for what he does?
How did the warriors venom canon perform? D3 shots and d3 damage seems weard. Would you consider putting them in a trygon, or does the lack of a prime hold you back?
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans