Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Nick Ellingworth wrote:


However looking at this positively, these days there are a lot of independent rule writers and miniature manufacturers producing really high quality sci-fi and fantasy products for the gamer who is willing to step out side of the bubble of one source for everything. I for one will continue to support these companies over the one's who try to insist on their customers using only their rules and their miniatures as I feel that approach stifles creativity, where as being able to mix and match from multiple sources encourages it.

Definitely.

It is a golden age for indie and cheapskate gamers. The number of miniature, vehicle, accessory and terrain ranges -both indie and tied to a current game- is huge. Further, the quality and variety of indie rulesets is only growing. There's a ton of good stuff via PDF now (Blasters and bulkheads, Song of Blades Mech Attack, just to name a few) and Osprey seems to have almost single handledly multiplied the number of affordable in-print rulesets with good production values.

Maybe I'm not as quite cheap as I thought since I enjoy supporting these companies and buy new products from them fairly often.

 Eilif wrote:
It is a golden age for indie and cheapskate gamers. The number of miniature, vehicle, accessory and terrain ranges -both indie and tied to a current game- is huge. Further, the quality and variety of indie rulesets is only growing. There's a ton of good stuff via PDF now (Blasters and bulkheads, Song of Blades Mech Attack, just to name a few) and Osprey seems to have almost single handledly multiplied the number of affordable in-print rulesets with good production values.

Maybe I'm not as quite cheap as I thought since I enjoy supporting these companies and buy new products from them fairly often.

You might not be cheap but I bet you're trying to extract the maximum amount of hobby enjoyment out of every penny you spend on the hobby, I know that's what I do. I think as hobbyists that's what we need to do as much as possible. Of course what that is will be completely different from person to person which is a big part of what makes this hobby so entertaining.

You can count me as another one of Osprey's admirers, they've produced a magnificent variety of well written and even better priced rulesets in their wargames series and they publish the likes of Bolt Action and Dracula's America among others. Plus they produce some excellent board games. As for downloads, I've got at least 10 downloaded rulesets that I've been willing to pay for plus countless free rules (FUBAR etc) and I've printed out copies of most of them.

I'll fully admit that one of my 'cheap' aspects is that nearly any gaming for me in the near future that takes place in 40k or Age of Sigmar will be involving the free rulesets from One Page Rules. That site has rulesets for both army and skirmish-scale games of 40k and Age of Sigmar that are rules-light and incredibly easy to teach to others, are positively received by many and above all are completely free, allowing my money to be spent on figures and scenery.

I have bought rules for three editions of 40k, and can't keep chasing that never-ending struggle, when I have nearly no local gaming scene, and have to promote and host any boardgames or minis games I want to play. I absolutely love GW universes, but feel no need to keep modern with my rulesets, or indeed even stay loyal to GW for them. I support them just fine by buying models.

 Nick Ellingworth wrote:


You might not be cheap but I bet you're trying to extract the maximum amount of hobby enjoyment out of every penny you spend on the hobby

That's a good way to put it.

I definitely try to get the most from every dime, though that's not the entirety of why I go indie for most of my gaming. Alot of it is also that I just like doing my own thing within my own idea of what I want my gaming to look like and often the products, games, minis, etc that get me there are not the biggest names. I'm not even entirely free of big-name-company games, but even then I didn't simply go out and buy an army at retail.

-For Runewars it was a free game in the Adepticon swag bag and a large used deal that got me and I bought in with the expectation that my chosen army would get double-use via KoW. It also gave me something to buy periodically (unit boxes) at my FLGS so I could support the place we were playing at.
-For Konflikt 47 it was a clearance starter set and a couple of boxes of figs with the knowledge that I'm going to buy a couple platoons have enough to play most any size game and then be done collecting.

 Eilif wrote:

 Nick Ellingworth wrote:


You might not be cheap but I bet you're trying to extract the maximum amount of hobby enjoyment out of every penny you spend on the hobby

That's a good way to put it.

I definitely try to get the most from every dime, though that's not the entirety of why I go indie for most of my gaming. Alot of it is also that I just like doing my own thing within my own idea of what I want my gaming to look like and often the products, games, minis, etc that get me there are not the biggest names. I'm not even entirely free of big-name-company games, but even then I didn't simply go out and buy an army at retail.

-For Runewars it was a free game in the Adepticon swag bag and a large used deal that got me and I bought in with the expectation that my chosen army would get double-use via KoW. It also gave me something to buy periodically (unit boxes) at my FLGS so I could support the place we were playing at.
-For Konflikt 47 it was a clearance starter set and a couple of boxes of figs with the knowledge that I'm going to buy a couple platoons have enough to play most any size game and then be done collecting.

Plus, those Rune Wars and Konflict 47 minis can be used in all sorts of games.

Because these games are expensive.


If I'm paying $X for a mini, I want to make that price stretch as much as I can.

 Easy E wrote:


Plus, those Rune Wars and Konflict 47 minis can be used in all sorts of games.

For sure. I've already got plans to do KOW-compliant unit bases with holes for the Runewars figs. From the very beginning of getting in to Runewars I knew the Daqan (humans) would double as the Kingdoms of Man KoW army I always wanted.

As for K47. It's no coincidence that I decided to weird-up all my Warlord British with West Wind SoTR gas mask heads, tending to make them even more suitable for other post-apoc or sci-fi games. It does make them less usefull for historical gaming, but I've not really got any interest in that anyway.

I don't know about other gamers, but for me there's no "appearance" of being cheap.

I am cheap, and I wave that banner proudly. So in-your-face pay-to-win gamers. I don't CARE what you think.

I would rather hunt down OOP metal figures for a fraction of the price of the newer overdone plastics from GW. Newer doesn't automagically mean better. Mostly because none of the new stuff fits style wise with the rest of my collection and to use the new stuff means replacing 90% of what I have.

Automagically is an awesome word I congratulate you sir!

Here's a shot of a fraction of some of the stuff I've bought in the last couple of years. Call me "cheap", melon-fethers!



Having said and shown that pic - I do want to get the most bang for my buck, especially with painted models. My time is finite, after all. Equally, value of purchases is important to me. Do I want to need to buy two sets of Stormtroopers in an incompatible scale for two different games by the same company? Hell no. If they were 100% compatible in size, Would I have happily bought MORE stormtroopers from the second game with new sculpts to mix in with the first batch and have a gakload of stormtroopers for both games? Check the pic again for your answer.

That pic, Azazelx... thats beauty.

Primo product. That's a cool million on the street.








I'm afraid to see your Kickstarter pillar.

Impressive...Most impressive.

When the apocalypse comes you will be fine for painting for a few years.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Impressive...Most impressive.

When the apocalypse comes you will be fine for painting for a few years.

 Azazelx wrote:
Here's a shot of a fraction of some of the stuff I've bought in the last couple of years. Call me "cheap", melon-fethers!



Having said and shown that pic - I do want to get the most bang for my buck, especially with painted models. My time is finite, after all. Equally, value of purchases is important to me. Do I want to need to buy two sets of Stormtroopers in an incompatible scale for two different games by the same company? Hell no. If they were 100% compatible in size, Would I have happily bought MORE stormtroopers from the second game with new sculpts to mix in with the first batch and have a gakload of stormtroopers for both games? Check the pic again for your answer.

you are NOT cheap, you may be crazy though

 Llamahead wrote:
Another thing to consider is time I've already invested time and effort in painting models I want to get as much use out of them as possible so why not use Zombicide models in half a dozen different rulesets?

That's my situation. As said, Song of Blade and Heroes, and Frostgrave are both good inexpensive games and let you use your existing *painted* miniatures. Why not try them first?

As a boardgamer and KS backer, I have thousands of miniatures to paint, obviously for games I thought were worth playing. Now, comes along another game that wants me to play it, and I don't know if it's any better than the games I already bought. The games I already own (and this includes non-miniature games) I don't have to pay any more money to play ('cuz I already got them! (: or spend time painting (some games don't even have miniatures! (: so the next game in the Cult of the New Queue has to do a better job selling itself than any other games I already own.

And one way to sell itself is to be cheaper. As said, this applies for hobbies outside of miniatures. The $60 Legacy of Dragonholt is on the BGG Hotness, but a thread brought up other competing games, such as the $10 Fable Books and the *free* online Lone Wolf books. With retail products not having the FOMO pressure that KS projects have, I have the leisure of trying out "good and cheap" before "maybe gooder but definitely more expensive". I guess the situation for any hobbyist is whether or not the Next Big Thing justifies not playing and effectively tossing out the Last Big Thing that you dropped a few hundred dollars on.

If I didn't enter the gaming hobby through RPGs or liked shiny things or liked HP Lovecraft, I think the only game in my gaming closet would be Dominion...!

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Impressive...Most impressive.

When the apocalypse comes you will be fine for painting for a few years.

That's an out-there reference which I actually get...congrats.

 Azazelx wrote:
Here's a shot of a fraction of some of the stuff I've bought in the last couple of years. Call me "cheap", melon-fethers!



Having said and shown that pic - I do want to get the most bang for my buck, especially with painted models. My time is finite, after all. Equally, value of purchases is important to me. Do I want to need to buy two sets of Stormtroopers in an incompatible scale for two different games by the same company? Hell no. If they were 100% compatible in size, Would I have happily bought MORE stormtroopers from the second game with new sculpts to mix in with the first batch and have a gakload of stormtroopers for both games? Check the pic again for your answer.

Oooooh Shiney!

 Elbows wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Impressive...Most impressive.

When the apocalypse comes you will be fine for painting for a few years.

That's an out-there reference which I actually get...congrats.

There's time now HAHAHAHA

 thekingofkings wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
Here's a shot of a fraction of some of the stuff I've bought in the last couple of years. Call me "cheap", melon-fethers!

Spoiler:

Having said and shown that pic - I do want to get the most bang for my buck, especially with painted models. My time is finite, after all. Equally, value of purchases is important to me. Do I want to need to buy two sets of Stormtroopers in an incompatible scale for two different games by the same company? Hell no. If they were 100% compatible in size, Would I have happily bought MORE stormtroopers from the second game with new sculpts to mix in with the first batch and have a gakload of stormtroopers for both games? Check the pic again for your answer.

you are NOT cheap, you may be crazy though

I'll admit, I'm pretty sure there's some O, C and D involved, but c'est la vie.

 chromedog wrote:
I don't know about other gamers, but for me there's no "appearance" of being cheap.

I am cheap, and I wave that banner proudly. So in-your-face pay-to-win gamers. I don't CARE what you think.

I would rather hunt down OOP metal figures for a fraction of the price of the newer overdone plastics from GW. Newer doesn't automagically mean better. Mostly because none of the new stuff fits style wise with the rest of my collection and to use the new stuff means replacing 90% of what I have.

This is a pretty lame sentiment.

I've been with GW since 1986 and I still have my 80's and 90's stuff. Those were the best mini's available at the time. But over done plastic? Are you drunk? Plastic is way better to work with than metal (and especially metal mini's wit lead) and the sculpts are so much better than the 2 plane old metal stuff.

Take an old rogue trader terminator and place it against one of the new GW or FW ones?

I'm sorry you are cheap. It must really suck to go thru life worrying about money.

I don't need your sorrys. I also don't need your aesthetic sense.

I prefer the look of the 90s eldar (the marines have sucked since 1995, when they became skull fetish crusading space monk knights.). When Jes was at his peak. What's it to you, anyway?

Whether or not you like them is irrelevant to MY tastes.

Also. Learn to sarcasm. Aussies speak it with a subtext. It litters every [sarcasm] part of our [sarcasm] speech - like riding 'roos to school across the harbour bridge.

Surely everyone with any sense should be "cheap" with everything they buy? Otherwise you're wasting money.

Admittedly, I don't always follow that myself; there's an Aldi local to me, but I go to Sainsburys.

Mind you, buying the old stuff off Ebay ain't always cheaper. "oldhammer" has taken off in the last few years, and the scalpers have noticed. Especially if you're looking for metal models with separate arms; you can get Orks, Guardsmen or 'stealer hybrids for reasonable prices, but have fun getting arms for 'em.

Because everyone likes a bargain and if you are old enough to remember when a metal Eldar Phoenix Lord only cost £6 then paying +£15 for one that isn't made of metal seems a bit unfair.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Surely everyone with any sense should be "cheap" with everything they buy? Otherwise you're wasting money.

Admittedly, I don't always follow that myself; there's an Aldi local to me, but I go to Sainsburys.

Mind you, buying the old stuff off Ebay ain't always cheaper. "oldhammer" has taken off in the last few years, and the scalpers have noticed. Especially if you're looking for metal models with separate arms; you can get Orks, Guardsmen or 'stealer hybrids for reasonable prices, but have fun getting arms for 'em.

Ebay is for chumps.
I do my scrounging f2f. I want to see exactly what I'm outlaying the folding stuff for.

We have bring/buy tables at several of the larger conventions where gamers dispose of their unwanted gaming dross.
We have groups on the book of faces that serve a similar purpose.

I'm not such a RT puritan that I'll only take RT plastic guardsmen (they WILL take modern cadian arms, though) - but I generally only get stuff that is relatively complete. That said, I've never had any desire to own stealers, orks or chaos of any stripe, plastic or metal, 1987 to now. I only found out about GW in 1987.

I've picked up METAL eldar war walkers or wraithlords with magnetised weapons for $10-15 AUD each (when the newer plastics were selling for at least double and often triple that or more). 2nd ed Marine dreads (identical to current plastics, but metal, not the older peanuts) complete with several weapon arm sets for a steal, too. (in 2nd ed metal dread days, specific weapons were restricted to certain models. DA had lascannon/missile, BA had furioso (2x dccw), ultramarine was assault cannon/dccw. To find one dread at the start of 3rd ed with AC/Twin las/dccw and missile pod arms all in metal for $25 was a steal - it was more than that for the plastic kit that was new for 3rd ed).

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Surely everyone with any sense should be "cheap" with everything they buy? Otherwise you're wasting money.

Money isn't the only resource. Time, and even energy, are factors as well. I buy a ton of stuff used, but I then strip it (which requires time, supplies, and effort), rebuild it (ditto), and paint it up. If I really took a look at how much time I spent "saving" money, compared to what I can earn working, I'm sure it's a bad balance. But I like it, so it's worth it to me.

In contrast, ever since I've worked full time, I've hired movers every time I move. I'd rather write a check for $600 than spend two days hauling my belongings.

Sometimes, being cheap is self defeating, but sometimes thrift is about the journey, not the destination.

 Polonius wrote:
Sometimes, being cheap is self defeating, but sometimes thrift is about the journey, not the destination.

That pretty much sums up the hobby.
The final product is obviously a goal (just like winning a game) but the process of making the models and playing the games that is the active joy of the game.
Why we "appear to be cheap"?
Because we want our hobby to last for a very long time and running out of money is a hard-stop to it.

That tower of model boxes however.... just barely justifies the horde of unbuilt kits I have.
It we were REALLY cheap I think GW would be the last company to buy from.
Used / badly built / damaged kits for sale are an inexpensive means to get into the hobby AND can prolong the build process.

 Polonius wrote:

Sometimes, being cheap is self defeating, but sometimes thrift is about the journey, not the destination.

That's very true. Have been quite enjoying getting old/part bits for Epic off ebay. It's quite nice getting things that are a messed blob of paint, broken etc. and working to restore them.

The same with armies, I have a rule of only one complete/ready to play army per gaming system. My least favourite goes onto ebay, I like to think that's one more painted army out there in the gaming community, and there are a lot of people that have the money for it but not always the ability or time to put together a painted force.

 Polonius wrote:


Money isn't the only resource. Time, and even energy, are factors as well.

...

Sometimes, being cheap is self defeating, but sometimes thrift is about the journey, not the destination.

This is very true. I don't like to "waste" money either, of course, but I do thoughtfully consider what the cost is, in money, time, etc., when buying something. Which is why I've stopped buying used models in general. Why? Because I've found the time and effort required to strip the paint, fix any horrible assembly issues, get reassembled, etc. is more hassle than the savings of a couple of bucks is worth. So I generally only buy NIB or at the very least unassembled, unpainted stuff. Since I get probably more enjoyment out of the hobbying aspect than the game playing (due to time issues and getting together with other people), I don't want to eat that hobby time up with cursing someone else's bad assembly/paint jobs before I can start doing the stuff I enjoy.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Surely everyone with any sense should be "cheap" with everything they buy? Otherwise you're wasting money.

Admittedly, I don't always follow that myself; there's an Aldi local to me, but I go to Sainsburys.

Mind you, buying the old stuff off Ebay ain't always cheaper. "oldhammer" has taken off in the last few years, and the scalpers have noticed. Especially if you're looking for metal models with separate arms; you can get Orks, Guardsmen or 'stealer hybrids for reasonable prices, but have fun getting arms for 'em.

I've definitely noticed that oldhammer effect on Ebay of late, I used to Ebay for old metal Eldar as I prefer the aesthetics (although I'll admit to replacing my Jetbikes and Wraithguard with less fally over plastics) but even thats getting pricey