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Yes, please lol.

At least then the flame turret would actually be useful on them?

Exactly. I’m building a Baal Pred right now and have it together except sponsons and turret; waiting for the book to see if I need to bother magnetizing.

Bremon wrote:
Exactly. I’m building a Furioso right now and have it together except sponsons and turret; waiting for the book to see if I need to bother magnetizing.

...since when did Dreadnoughts get sponsons and turrets?

 Dysartes wrote:

Bremon wrote:
Exactly. I’m building a Furioso right now and have it together except sponsons and turret; waiting for the book to see if I need to bother magnetizing.

...since when did Dreadnoughts get sponsons and turrets?

Baal Pred lol, sorry, bit overloaded with kits and magnets at the moment.

We need the DC as a premium assault squad at least among Marines.
Assault Marines with meltas and plasma guns would be nice (which they had in former editions).

 wuestenfux wrote:
Assault Marines with meltas and plasma guns would be nice (which they had in former editions).

I believe they can do that now, as per the Index 1 FAQ:

Page 89 – Wargear
Add the following before the final paragraph:
‘Models in Assault Squads that have the option for a
plasma pistol may instead take a hand flamer or an
inferno pistol (replacing their bolt pistol) and those
that have the option for a flamer may instead take a
meltagun or plasma gun (replacing their bolt pistol
and chainsword).’

I think a Stratgem where I "lose" a tactical squad to the black rage would be awesome.

Stratagem for closer than normal deep striking. Melta range please lol.

I'd be very ok with this. Especially for my Assault Squads. I can see it being a 1 to 2 CP cost strategem "Aerial Expertise" or something along those lines that allow them to be more precise and land closer than would usually be expected.

We'll see. Hurry up rumor mill!

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

By the way!
Talking about Successor chapter tactics, and particulary Gabriel Seth - while I was searching for all his pictures I found this hidden in plain sight image at the back of Exterminatus book!
Maybe it's jut me, but I haven't seen this original artwork anywhere else.
And judging by the style it's something that looks to be a Raymond Swanland's art.
But that guy makes a cover art most of the times in GW.




Also - when I say there is a lot of pictures of Seth - there is:

alot of them.

Aaaaaand while these are not Seth directly - but definitely has some Gabriel's two-handed eviscerator vibe


So with all the pictures of flesh tearers I am quite sured that we will have our own successor tactics

has anyone noticed new blood angels assault and vanguards? were they always there?

 skchsan wrote:
has anyone noticed new blood angels assault and vanguards? were they always there?

Yep, they are new:

4$ more expensive but they come with the Blood Angels Chapter sprue:
This are the old ones:

The box art:

But, looking at the USA shop... why are Vanguard Veterans 1$ cheaper than the normal Assault Squad? In pounds they cost the same, and in euros the Assault Squad cost 33€ for the 35€ of the Vanguard one, so Vanguard are 2€ more expensive.

EDIT: But what I know. Maybe they have been here all the time. Last time I checked last month the blood angels kits, they wheren't there. Only the Blood Angels Sternguard.

 skchsan wrote:
has anyone noticed new blood angels assault and vanguards? were they always there?

Yep - that's from Angels Blade release.
It's the vanila space marine kit + blood angels upgrade sprue in one box.
But apart from that - nothing new.

The Blood Angels Sternguard Veteran Squad, Blood Angels Vanguard Veteran Squad, and Blood Angels Assault Squad are all old kits. They came out last year. I own two of the Assault Squad kit. Great way to go the Upgrade Sprue for dirt cheap.

Notice that the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves Upgrade Sprues have all been updated to depict them being used on the Primaris Space Marine kits. The Ultramarines kit does NOT show the Primaris kits, but Ultramarines have a Primaris Upgrade kit. So what that tells me is that we won't be seeing Primaris Upgrade Sprues for Blood Angels, Dark Angels, or Space Wolves.

I strongly suspect the Blood Angels codex will have zero new kits associated with it. Not even a Clampack. Dark Angels will likely get Cypher in a Clampack. Oh well, I have been looking for a reason to get the BA Orbital Intervention Force. No new models helps make that purchase a little easier.

 skchsan wrote:
has anyone noticed new blood angels assault and vanguards? were they always there?

Not new at all.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The Blood Angels Sternguard Veteran Squad, Blood Angels Vanguard Veteran Squad, and Blood Angels Assault Squad are all old kits. They came out last year. I own two of the Assault Squad kit. Great way to go the Upgrade Sprue for dirt cheap.

Notice that the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves Upgrade Sprues have all been updated to depict them being used on the Primaris Space Marine kits. The Ultramarines kit does NOT show the Primaris kits, but Ultramarines have a Primaris Upgrade kit. So what that tells me is that we won't be seeing Primaris Upgrade Sprues for Blood Angels, Dark Angels, or Space Wolves.

I strongly suspect the Blood Angels codex will have zero new kits associated with it. Not even a Clampack. Dark Angels will likely get Cypher in a Clampack. Oh well, I have been looking for a reason to get the BA Orbital Intervention Force. No new models helps make that purchase a little easier.

Yes, the hands on the weapons of the SW upgrade sprue are very big. Looks like they have been designed for Primaris from the beginning. I gues it's the same with the BA one.

Ragnar69 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The Blood Angels Sternguard Veteran Squad, Blood Angels Vanguard Veteran Squad, and Blood Angels Assault Squad are all old kits. They came out last year. I own two of the Assault Squad kit. Great way to go the Upgrade Sprue for dirt cheap.

Notice that the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves Upgrade Sprues have all been updated to depict them being used on the Primaris Space Marine kits. The Ultramarines kit does NOT show the Primaris kits, but Ultramarines have a Primaris Upgrade kit. So what that tells me is that we won't be seeing Primaris Upgrade Sprues for Blood Angels, Dark Angels, or Space Wolves.

I strongly suspect the Blood Angels codex will have zero new kits associated with it. Not even a Clampack. Dark Angels will likely get Cypher in a Clampack. Oh well, I have been looking for a reason to get the BA Orbital Intervention Force. No new models helps make that purchase a little easier.

Yes, the hands on the weapons of the SW upgrade sprue are very big. Looks like they have been designed for Primaris from the beginning. I gues it's the same with the BA one.

Blood Angels are getting a Primaris upgrade kit. Our intercessors can’t take a power sword. Just a chainsword. There is no chainsword on the BA upgrade sprue.

 theharrower wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
The Blood Angels Sternguard Veteran Squad, Blood Angels Vanguard Veteran Squad, and Blood Angels Assault Squad are all old kits. They came out last year. I own two of the Assault Squad kit. Great way to go the Upgrade Sprue for dirt cheap.

Notice that the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves Upgrade Sprues have all been updated to depict them being used on the Primaris Space Marine kits. The Ultramarines kit does NOT show the Primaris kits, but Ultramarines have a Primaris Upgrade kit. So what that tells me is that we won't be seeing Primaris Upgrade Sprues for Blood Angels, Dark Angels, or Space Wolves.

I strongly suspect the Blood Angels codex will have zero new kits associated with it. Not even a Clampack. Dark Angels will likely get Cypher in a Clampack. Oh well, I have been looking for a reason to get the BA Orbital Intervention Force. No new models helps make that purchase a little easier.

Yes, the hands on the weapons of the SW upgrade sprue are very big. Looks like they have been designed for Primaris from the beginning. I gues it's the same with the BA one.

Blood Angels are getting a Primaris upgrade kit. Our intercessors can’t take a power sword. Just a chainsword. There is no chainsword on the BA upgrade sprue.

Also the Inceptors and Aggressors have larger pauldrons that the normal shoulder pads do not fit. We may not be getting them today ,but I would be surprised if they don't come out with more upgrade packs that fill these gaps. Might be a good opportunity for FW as their might not be enough interest to justify a plastic sprue and GW moves away from finecast.

FW would be the only option for something like this. Plastic sprue for 2 units that not everyone uses would be too cost prohibitive.

I guess our codex wont be coming this month. Tyranid codex had previews almost two weeks before release. No preview of BA or DA so far

Could be a shorter preview window to give necromunda room to breathe, or it could be a Dec. 2 release date.

 Slinky wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Assault Marines with meltas and plasma guns would be nice (which they had in former editions).

I believe they can do that now, as per the Index 1 FAQ:

Page 89 – Wargear
Add the following before the final paragraph:
‘Models in Assault Squads that have the option for a
plasma pistol may instead take a hand flamer or an
inferno pistol (replacing their bolt pistol) and those
that have the option for a flamer may instead take a
meltagun or plasma gun (replacing their bolt pistol
and chainsword).’

Thanks for pointing out.
But this doesnt make BA Assault Marines not better than the vanilla ones.
BA Assault Marines should be troops as they were before.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Slinky wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Assault Marines with meltas and plasma guns would be nice (which they had in former editions).

I believe they can do that now, as per the Index 1 FAQ:

Page 89 – Wargear
Add the following before the final paragraph:
‘Models in Assault Squads that have the option for a
plasma pistol may instead take a hand flamer or an
inferno pistol (replacing their bolt pistol) and those
that have the option for a flamer may instead take a
meltagun or plasma gun (replacing their bolt pistol
and chainsword).’

Thanks for pointing out.
But this doesnt make BA Assault Marines not better than the vanilla ones.
BA Assault Marines should be troops as they were before.

No, they shouldn't be troops, they're not troops. Blood Angels don't magically have more assault marines than any other chapter. They have tactical marines aplenty, more than any other 'type' of marine, and follow the codex astartes as closely as they're able.

I wish people would stop asking for this. Now that you have the Outrider detachment, you can field all the assault marines you want as 'troops' for your army in lieu of tactical squads or scouts as troops. It doesn't give you all the benefits of tactical marines, but that's a good thing in my opinion, because it makes it both a viable choice (complete with pro's and con's for both options) for someone, rather than being a no-brainer 'option' one way or the other.

Just my opinion on that. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 wuestenfux wrote:

Spoiler:

 Slinky wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Assault Marines with meltas and plasma guns would be nice (which they had in former editions).

I believe they can do that now, as per the Index 1 FAQ:

Page 89 – Wargear
Add the following before the final paragraph:
‘Models in Assault Squads that have the option for a
plasma pistol may instead take a hand flamer or an
inferno pistol (replacing their bolt pistol) and those
that have the option for a flamer may instead take a
meltagun or plasma gun (replacing their bolt pistol
and chainsword).’

Thanks for pointing out.
But this doesnt make BA Assault Marines not better than the vanilla ones.
BA Assault Marines should be troops as they were before.

While I'm not entirely against this idea that BA should have Assault marines as troops, I really don't think its a good idea. First off, the fluff doesn't support it; Tactical marines are still the mainstay of our chapter, with assault marines forming only 1/4 of the battle companies.
plus, it's a lazy 'fix'.
We shouldn't have assaults as troops, our tacticals should feel like assaults. Give us solid close combat rules and ways to blitzkrieg the enemy across our whole codex. Give us Landspeeder storms, let our tacticals take Close Combat weapons (they come in the new kit for crying out loud) and give us decent stratagems to support this.

I'd like to see BA Assault Marines get Objsec while remaining FA choices.

 Red__Thirst wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Slinky wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
Assault Marines with meltas and plasma guns would be nice (which they had in former editions).

I believe they can do that now, as per the Index 1 FAQ:

Page 89 – Wargear
Add the following before the final paragraph:
‘Models in Assault Squads that have the option for a
plasma pistol may instead take a hand flamer or an
inferno pistol (replacing their bolt pistol) and those
that have the option for a flamer may instead take a
meltagun or plasma gun (replacing their bolt pistol
and chainsword).’

Thanks for pointing out.
But this doesnt make BA Assault Marines not better than the vanilla ones.
BA Assault Marines should be troops as they were before.

No, they shouldn't be troops, they're not troops. Blood Angels don't magically have more assault marines than any other chapter. They have tactical marines aplenty, more than any other 'type' of marine, and follow the codex astartes as closely as they're able.

I wish people would stop asking for this. Now that you have the Outrider detachment, you can field all the assault marines you want as 'troops' for your army in lieu of tactical squads or scouts as troops. It doesn't give you all the benefits of tactical marines, but that's a good thing in my opinion, because it makes it both a viable choice (complete with pro's and con's for both options) for someone, rather than being a no-brainer 'option' one way or the other.

Just my opinion on that. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

People misunderstand this point a lot. To be fair, it's not talked about a lot in the books.

Assault marines being troops is not to reflect that they have more dedicated assault marines. It's to show that BA are trained as assault marines immediately after their tenure as a scout, and the fluff directly states that they always keep their jump pack maintained even after leaving the assault squads in case they need to be utilized as jump infantry. That means out of the ideal codex numbers, they have NINE HUNDRED potential assault marines. So yes, in a sense, they have waaaaay more ASM than other chapters. (although I suppose a hundred of those would actually be vanguard veterans if they put on their packs instead, so maybe 800?) The book that introduced them as troops even specifies that they don't have more ASM than other chapters, they just have more people ready and willing to BE ASM at a moment's notice.

7e BA codex: "They are comprised of those battle-brothers newly graduated from the scout squads..." "Thanks to their genetic heritage, the Blood Angels take naturally to flight, and there is never a shortage of warriors eager to sour into battle upon the wings of a jump pack. Thus the Blood Angels' Assault Squads, while no more numerous than those of any other Chapter, are the most likely to remain at full strength while on campaign."

5e BA codex (Note that this is the one with ASM troops): "Whilst Assault Marines are incredibly common in a Blood Angels strike force, this should not be taken to indicate that Assault Squads are more prevalent here than in other Chapters..." >stuff about how they do follow the codex and have two ASM squads per battle company< "However, given the Blood Angels' predilection for jump packs in general, and close assault in particular, there is rarely a shortage of Battle Brothers with suitable training and termperament to fill Assault Squad rosters as casualties occur. So it is that Assault Squads are likely to remain at full strength, even though the rest of the strike force be woefully undermanned."

I really don't think that the preference rate at which casualties are refilled in a marine army necessarily determines what their main stay force is on the tabletop.
Like, they still follow the codex astartes in large. And the codex still says 'use more tacticals than other things guys."
Now, you could state that its as a consequence of their unique preferences for lightning assaults. But the outrider detachment has that covered, as I doubt any space marine commander is going to waste precious mobile units as guard dogs.
A blood angel commander would be much more in character abandoning the objective (or leaving only a basic complement) and pushing on to other weak spots.
And to me, that just doesn't ring "Assault Marines with objective secured."

Neronoxx wrote:
I really don't think that the rate at which casualties are refilled in a marine army determines what their main stay force is.
Like, they still follow the codex astartes in large. And the codex still says 'use more tacticals than other things guys."
Now, you could state that its as a consequence of their unique preferences for lightning assaults. But the outrider detachment has that covered, as I doubt any space marine commander is going to waste precious mobile units as guard dogs.
A blood angel commander would be much more in character abandoning the objective (or leaving only a basic complement) and pushing on to other weak spots.
And to me, that just doesn't ring "Assault Marines with objective secured."

I think you missed the part where the assault marines covering an objective might BE tacticals. Just with their jump packs on.

I'm just correcting the common misconception that the reason they were troops at one time was because they had more. The codex that had them as troops directly says that is NOT the case, but at the same time they effectively DO have more because EVERYONE who isn't a scout is a potential assault marine.

 niv-mizzet wrote:

Neronoxx wrote:
I really don't think that the rate at which casualties are refilled in a marine army determines what their main stay force is.
Like, they still follow the codex astartes in large. And the codex still says 'use more tacticals than other things guys."
Now, you could state that its as a consequence of their unique preferences for lightning assaults. But the outrider detachment has that covered, as I doubt any space marine commander is going to waste precious mobile units as guard dogs.
A blood angel commander would be much more in character abandoning the objective (or leaving only a basic complement) and pushing on to other weak spots.
And to me, that just doesn't ring "Assault Marines with objective secured."

I think you missed the part where the assault marines covering an objective might BE tacticals. Just with their jump packs on.

I'm just correcting the common misconception that the reason they were troops at one time was because they had more. The codex that had them as troops directly says that is NOT the case, but at the same time they effectively DO have more because EVERYONE who isn't a scout is a potential assault marine.

Tactical Marines armed as Assault marines aren't Tactical Marines, or are you going to tell me that a tactical marine armed as an assault marine does the same job as a tactical marine armed as an tactical marine? Assault marines can not do what tacticals can.

And we agree that they don't have more marines, I feel the last codex established that safely.
I want BA to be good, but assault marines as troops really does nothing for us if you think about where that places the army against its competitors. We need solid rules for our army, not a game of musical chairs with our troop choices.