Switch Theme:

Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Sunny Side Up wrote:
Which is a distinction I don't get. A Stratagem "forcing" you to spend 50 USD on a Predator is no different than a Stratagem "forcing" you to spend 50 USD on a box of Marines and a Character to paint in Space Wolves blue. It's all just sprues in a box.
.


Or dark angel green and use them as count-as space wolves but are actually sub-chapter of dark angels if you are worried about fielding different coloured marines.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Next up:
Leman Russ and Lion El'Johnson released, stratagem gets upped to 3CP because all the tournaments become Russ and Lion fighting Mortarion and Magnus.

Can't decide if fluffy or not.

7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. 
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Wow... So Looks like DA get a Chaos Boon! Sneaky Traitors.

And those damn Wolves always seemed like Possessed to me too.
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





Sunny Side Up wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:


This is a really strange outlook to me. I chose DAs because I like DAs. I don't like Wolves, UMs etc. Not taking a unit in my chosen force is not even close to not taking something from an entirely different army. Not the same game, not even in the same ballpark.

I guess if you want to use the strat....just take a small tac sqd and character (or whatever the wulfies get) and paint them as DAs but just use wolf rules. Really dumb though. I appreciate the fluff, but to include it as a strategem that does take the spot of a regular strategem (regardless of how many they had) is kind of sucky.


And I collect Marines of various colours, because I like them and think they are cool. I don't like the boxy tanks though, so I don't collect those.

Horses for courses.

The point is, just because I don't enjoy X from the GW product range as much as others do, doesn't mean I, yes I, demand that GW write every rules publication to just my personal preferences and mine alone, and better not dare print 2 sentences about stuff that I, yes I, don't like. If other people like the stuff I don't like as much, feth them. GW better be my personal rules-writing-slave writing publications just for me and me alone!!!!!

What kinda stupid kindergarten attitude is that?


Kindergarten attitude? So already falling back on insults......nice job.

I get the fluff, I do, and I like that they are attaching rules to fluff, that's cool too. But as it stands it is not a Dark Angels strategem, it's a Dark Angels and Space Wolves strategem, and believe it or not, there are people who like to play purist forces, not soup armies.
Heck, you can't even say it's for the narrative players because Matched Play players will tale a small detachment of wolves (the best they can cherry pick) to use this strategem.

How hard would it have been to keep the title, keep the rule as is but just have it apply to one DA character and stating that he had fought vs a Space Wolf at a previous time. No reason to actually include Space Wolves in your army.
   
Made in gb
Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot





Well I think this has finally answered the question. "Will people on dakka whine about literally anything?"

Yes. Yes they will.
I mean, how dare there be a flavourful strategem! How dare they have a strategem that might not affect how I run my army exactly! Im gunna go start a thread whining about how the avatar resurgent strategem is a complete joke because I dont own an avatar and clearly games workshop are FORCING ME TO BUY ONE OR MY STRATEGEM.IS USELESS.
yeah.
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





Bobug wrote:
Well I think this has finally answered the question. "Will people on dakka whine about literally anything?"

Yes. Yes they will.
I mean, how dare there be a flavourful strategem! How dare they have a strategem that might not affect how I run my army exactly! Im gunna go start a thread whining about how the avatar resurgent strategem is a complete joke because I dont own an avatar and clearly games workshop are FORCING ME TO BUY ONE OR MY STRATEGEM.IS USELESS.
yeah.


Again, a totally pointless counter argument.

If you own Eldar, let's say that to use Forewarned your army would have to take some Harlequin or DE infantry to use that strategem. People wouldn't have been happy, why would I want to add harlequins or DE into my army to use a Craftworld strategem? It is not close to being the same as not owning a certain model from within your faction.

Anyway, hopefully we will see some new stuff today. I'm just looking for some bonuses for my Ravenwing primarily. The dark talon is now 12pts more but this should be easily offset by cheaper bikes and speeders. Now hopefully some useful strategems/relics/warlord traits to make the army a little more viable.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/04 14:05:45


 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 bullyboy wrote:


How hard would it have been to keep the title, keep the rule as is but just have it apply to one DA character and stating that he had fought vs a Space Wolf at a previous time. No reason to actually include Space Wolves in your army.


No reason? Sure there is a reason. Because some people LIKE to include Space Wolves in the army to reflect that this Stratagem refers to a ritual fight before Dark Angels and Space Wolves fight together.

That's why it is part of the Dark Angels lore. And yes, some people like "purist" forces. Just ignore the Stratagem then. Some people like "non-purist" forces and they have just as much a right to get some cool Stratagem as you and your personal subjective interpretation of what a Dark Angel army "is".

A codex serving two ways to play the game is always better than a Codex serving only one way to play the game.

Again, the "kindergarten" reference is apt not because you have no right to not like/use a given Stratagem, it is apt because you demand there should be no rule in the Codex that YOU (!!!) don't like, people with different opinions and preferences be damned!!!!


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/04 14:08:32


 
   
Made in de
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





 bullyboy wrote:
Bobug wrote:
Well I think this has finally answered the question. "Will people on dakka whine about literally anything?"

Yes. Yes they will.
I mean, how dare there be a flavourful strategem! How dare they have a strategem that might not affect how I run my army exactly! Im gunna go start a thread whining about how the avatar resurgent strategem is a complete joke because I dont own an avatar and clearly games workshop are FORCING ME TO BUY ONE OR MY STRATEGEM.IS USELESS.
yeah.


Again, a totally pointless counter argument.

If you own Eldar, let's say that to use the Forewarned your army would have to take some Harlequin or DE infantry to use that strategem. People wouldn't have been happy, why would I want to add harlequins or DE into my army to use a Craftworld strategem? It is not close to being the same as not owning a certain model from within your faction.


In order to use the DG summoning stratagem I have to buy Chaos Daemons, which are not part of the Death Guard. Nobody complains about that, as it's fluffy. I don't get what people are so angry about. You could say: But both of them are Chaos and Nurgle. Yes, Space Wolves and DA are Imperium and Space Marines - both of them. It is the same. For some stratagems you need a certain model, for others you don't. If I'd play Iron Warriors I could argue there are 8 stratagems and relics in my codex I can't use. That's the way it is. If you still want them, buy an additional detachment.
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

From the reaction you'd think this was the only tactical option available and DA were 'garbage' to use internet parlance.

Simmer down people. It's but a tease. More info all week then the book out a week later.

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Well, part of the reason Chaos Marines are often so bland in 8th is probably because it is dearly missing a page of Stratagems of this sort (or other reward mechanisms) that give you some unique stuff to play with if you bring an old school Chaos army with a bunch of Rubrics and Berzerkers and Death Guard and Space-Wolves-turned-Red-Corsairs and Noise Marines in the same force and isn't just Chaos Space Marines as a Loyalist-style-painted-in-one-colour-scheme Marine army but Evil(tm).

That's why this is possibly the best Stratagem since the introduction of that game mechanic in 8th. It opens up ways to integrate all the nuggets, connections and interrelations that weave the 40K lore and help break the oppressively bland mono-armies incentivised by keywords, aura effects and similar mechanics, while also pointing players to specific multi-army builds that don't only/strictly follow the soup-for-tournament efficiency route (though as everything, it can be abused that way, I am sure) but grounds it in the rich background of 40K.


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/04 14:19:15


 
   
Made in us
Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought





Sunny Side Up wrote:
 bullyboy wrote:


How hard would it have been to keep the title, keep the rule as is but just have it apply to one DA character and stating that he had fought vs a Space Wolf at a previous time. No reason to actually include Space Wolves in your army.


No reason? Sure there is a reason. Because some people LIKE to include Space Wolves in the army to reflect that this Stratagem refers to a ritual fight before Dark Angels and Space Wolves fight together.

That's why it is part of the Dark Angels lore. And yes, some people like "purist" forces. Just ignore the Stratagem then. Some people like "non-purist" forces and they have just as much a right to get some cool Stratagem as you and your personal subjective interpretation of what a Dark Angel army "is".

A codex serving two ways to play the game is always better than a Codex serving only one way to play the game.

Again, the "kindergarten" reference is apt not because you have no right to not like/use a given Stratagem, it is apt because you demand there should be no rule in the Codex that YOU (!!!) don't like, people with different opinions and preferences be damned!!!!




No it's not apt as I never stated that I don't like the Codex and I already know there will be strategems I won't use (Preds, Vindis...not planning to own 3) but hey, keep up with your hyperbole. I have some deathwatch though...where's my strategem for that? How about Grey Knights? The Inquisition?

To use the strategem, there was no need to actually have to include SWs in your army, but I understand I'm talking to a wall.

What most of you are missing is that the strategem limits the people who can use it, not increases. Hey I have Space Wolves and DAs, why shouldnt "I" get that strategem? Great, but you could still use the strategem if it was DA only.....it would be available to more people.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/04 14:24:57


 
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






 Arachnofiend wrote:
 Eihnlazer wrote:
So much hate on necrons when they have the best vehicle army in the game atm.


That's a bold claim to make when Space Marines are placing with their Razorbacks and Stormravens and Guard is placing with their everything. Tell me, how many doomsday arks have you seen at top tables?



Not my fault there aren't more necron players bringing vehicle heavy lists to tournies. Quantam shielding is a bit OP and the only reasons i'd imagine you don't see a lot of necron lists is that necron vehicles were never very prevalent in earlier editions (with the exception of doom scythes) and that plasma is a bit too strong (its the only weapon that reliably hurts necron vehicles).

JOIN MY CRUSADE and gain 4000 RT points!
http://www.eternalcrusade.com/account/sign-up/?ref_code=EC-PLCIKYCABW8PG 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 bullyboy wrote:


To use the strategem, there was no need to actually have to include SWs in your army, but I understand I'm talking to a wall.


Again. You probably don't need more bonuses if you don't include non Dark Angels. Your aura effects and other stuff will work more reliably across your entire army. Your other pure-DA stratagems aren't handicapped by possibly not being applicable to some of your army.

Pure forces get 100% of the good stuff at the moment anyhow. There needs to be bonuses and advantages that compensate for losing a lot of that by bringing Dark Angels AND Space Wolves (or Grey Knights, Death Watch, etc.., yes certainly).

Which is why I hope this catches on!

   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

This is to the White Knights on here, Yes some people like this strat, some dont like it (or think its in the wrong place like me), no it doesnt fit the fluff, Dark Angels traditionally dont ally well with others, THIS is a part of the fluff, now they DO have a rivalry with the Space Wolves and that is what this Strat is showing, its a fluff ability that encourages (NOT FORCES...) the Dark Angel player to take Allies, something that Dark Angels usually dont like to do if they can avoid it (dont want people snooping around, not to mention they are not trusted and are known for just abandoning there allies), and again this strat is for those times where they happen to be allied with Space Wolves.

It is not whining when people want there Dark Angels traits to only be for Dark Angels and not require an outside army to be able to be used, it is a valid and understandable response to this particular strat, that however does not make this strat utterly worthless IF and only IF you want to take Space Wolf allies, for those that do not, then they have access to one less trait in matched play, had it been 0CP then I am sure no one would have minded, add it in as an army trait (and for space wolves) because if I am allying Space Wolves then I am already splitting my army up and paying points for these other units that cannot share a lot of rules, as it stands now, yes its fluffy, yes it can make some interesting combos but no it doesnt fit into the established fluff and matched play.

DARK ANGELS DO NOT PLAY WELL WITH OTHERS
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Formosa wrote:


DARK ANGELS DO NOT PLAY WELL WITH OTHERS


Not well doesn't mean they don't



Regardless of its origin the two Legions (and their subsequent Chapters) have never forgotten their feud and tensions run high between them. Though the Chapters have fought together on many occasions the vows made by their progenitors long ago have resulted in customary duels between them. It has come to pass that each time the Chapters meet two champions are selected from both sides to engage in a (usually) non-lethal duel.


This goes back to 2nd edition pretty much. The very fact that there is an established ritual for just that particular occasion kinda proves that this isn't an unheard of occasion. And Space Wolves aren't numerous either. For every battle Dark Angels did with Space Wolves, ritual and all, they probably did a hundred battles allied with Ultramarines-successor-chapter 123 and several thousand with Imperial Guard regiment 7384324.

Space Wolves & Dark Angels allied is almost certainly a more frequent even than .. say ... just the Deathwing all on their own out fighting as a pure force.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/12/04 14:46:05


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 Formosa wrote:
This is to the White Knights on here, Yes some people like this strat, some dont like it (or think its in the wrong place like me), no it doesnt fit the fluff, Dark Angels traditionally dont ally well with others, THIS is a part of the fluff, now they DO have a rivalry with the Space Wolves and that is what this Strat is showing, its a fluff ability that encourages (NOT FORCES...) the Dark Angel player to take Allies, something that Dark Angels usually dont like to do if they can avoid it (dont want people snooping around, not to mention they are not trusted and are known for just abandoning there allies), and again this strat is for those times where they happen to be allied with Space Wolves.

It is not whining when people want there Dark Angels traits to only be for Dark Angels and not require an outside army to be able to be used, it is a valid and understandable response to this particular strat, that however does not make this strat utterly worthless IF and only IF you want to take Space Wolf allies, for those that do not, then they have access to one less trait in matched play, had it been 0CP then I am sure no one would have minded, add it in as an army trait (and for space wolves) because if I am allying Space Wolves then I am already splitting my army up and paying points for these other units that cannot share a lot of rules, as it stands now, yes its fluffy, yes it can make some interesting combos but no it doesnt fit into the established fluff and matched play.

DARK ANGELS DO NOT PLAY WELL WITH OTHERS


They're not white knights for pointing out that it's an over the top complaint. I can't wait for this same nonsense when the SW book comes out and has the same ability. And SW will have their own abilities to apply to that portion of the army.

Now heaven help us if there are two such stratagems in the book. The whole internet will gak themselves with rage and make DJT the King of America.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Suggested elsewhere: that bonus to ws2 guy, goes to ws1. Usually pointless as 1 hits but add power fist...fist that still hits on 2 plus

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Mutating Changebringer





New Hampshire, USA

yes its fluffy...but no it doesnt fit into the established fluff


LOL WUT?
It has been long established in the fluff.
Back in 3rd Ed, Thousand Sons, Space Wolves and Dark Angels all had special rules when fighting one another.
Just because you're unfamiliar with the history of the game doesn't mean this rule is unfluffy.

Khorne Daemons 4000+pts
 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




tneva82 wrote:
Suggested elsewhere: that bonus to ws2 guy, goes to ws1. Usually pointless as 1 hits but add power fist...fist that still hits on 2 plus


Yeah. It's pretty nasty if you want a cc army/character. Blood Angels get a Thunderhammer with no -1 as a relic. This gives you basically 2 of those with +1 Str. and +1 Attack on top for fun.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




So, I think the main problem a lot of people are having with this stratagem, is a result of the matched play rules.

At the end of the day, the -vast- majority of games played use the Matched play format (competitive or not), so, as a result, to even use this stratagem you are going to need to spend, at least, a couple of hundred points for a patrol detachment of Wolves (or DA if you’re a SW player). This is simply because of the battleforged rules, and needing to keep each detachment “pure” in order to gain the benefits of each army. Yes, people do play narrative and open play games frequently, but, i would be astounded if the number of games played in those 2 styles comes anywhere close to matching games played using matched play.

Now… If the SW’s got a rule saying something like “1 unit of SW infantry can be included in any Space Marine army and will not have an impact on (or benefit from) the host armies battleforged rules”, it would make things interesting. This would be similar to how Scions work in Astra Militarum, and a way of representing how they were used as “watchful eyes” on the other legions in the Heresy. This would be super cool, fluffy AND make this stratagem actually worth something.

However, without a rule like that, I’m also in the camp of “well, never going to use that”. That is simply because I don’t see the benefits outweighing the cost of a CP (which you’ll be limited on anyway if you have to take a patrol detachment) and the potential cost of 2 wounds on my characters. Sure, it’d benefit the SW model if/when it gets to combat, but as the DA want to be more about shooting right now….

Sure, it’s kinda fluffy, but, currently, I put this stratagem in the same basket as the Admech Scryerskull stratagem…

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/04 15:20:46


 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




 DeffDred wrote:
yes its fluffy...but no it doesnt fit into the established fluff


LOL WUT?
It has been long established in the fluff.
Back in 3rd Ed, Thousand Sons, Space Wolves and Dark Angels all had special rules when fighting one another.
Just because you're unfamiliar with the history of the game doesn't mean this rule is unfluffy.


It isn't fluffy that they get magic power ups out of it,

It was there in the fluff to establish rivalry, not to give melee characters a power up, or to randomly jam a single space wolf model into a DA list.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/04 15:42:57


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in nl
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




Kdash wrote:
So, I think the main problem a lot of people are having with this stratagem, is a result of the matched play rules.

At the end of the day, the -vast- majority of games played use the Matched play format (competitive or not), so, as a result, to even use this stratagem you are going to need to spend, at least, a couple of hundred points for a patrol detachment of Wolves (or DA if you’re a SW player). This is simply because of the battleforged rules, and needing to keep each detachment “pure” in order to gain the benefits of each army. Yes, people do play narrative and open play games frequently, but, i would be astounded if the number of games played in those 2 styles comes anywhere close to matching games played using matched play.

Now… If the SW’s got a rule saying something like “1 unit of SW infantry can be included in any Space Marine army and will not have an impact on (or benefit from) the host armies battleforged rules”, it would make things interesting. This would be similar to how Scions work in Astra Militarum, and a way of representing how they were used as “watchful eyes” on the other legions in the Heresy. This would be super cool, fluffy AND make this stratagem actually worth something.

However, without a rule like that, I’m also in the camp of “well, never going to use that”. That is simply because I don’t see the benefits outweighing the cost of a CP (which you’ll be limited on anyway if you have to take a patrol detachment) and the potential cost of 2 wounds on my characters. Sure, it’d benefit the SW model if/when it gets to combat, but as the DA want to be more about shooting right now….

Sure, it’s kinda fluffy, but, currently, I put this stratagem in the same basket as the Admech Scryerskull stratagem…


Well, it definitely got me thinking though. I'm a main SW player and the first thing I came up with that would complement them rather nicely is an Outrider detachment consisting of Sammael on Jetbike (receives buff from stratagem) + Ravenwing Bikers/ Black Knights (Wolves like to play aggressively and these guys are the same). Then take Arjac or Logan (to receive the Stratagem buffs) + your normal SW forces. Don't know how competitive it's gonna be but it sounds fun as hell to me. I'm not normally not too much into DA but I love their models so this would be a perfect excuse to get a small complementary force of them.

Edit: Meh, I just remembered that Sammael isn't infantry so he's not eligible... bummer

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/04 16:15:19


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Voss wrote:


It isn't fluffy that they get magic power ups out of it,

It was there in the fluff to establish rivalry, not to give melee characters a power up, or to randomly jam a single space wolf model into a DA list.


They get hyped up to fight. What's so magic about that?
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Voss wrote:
 DeffDred wrote:
yes its fluffy...but no it doesnt fit into the established fluff


LOL WUT?
It has been long established in the fluff.
Back in 3rd Ed, Thousand Sons, Space Wolves and Dark Angels all had special rules when fighting one another.
Just because you're unfamiliar with the history of the game doesn't mean this rule is unfluffy.


It isn't fluffy that they get magic power ups out of it,

It was there in the fluff to establish rivalry, not to give melee characters a power up, or to randomly jam a single space wolf model into a DA list.


Same could be said about lots of bonus rules that are there just for coolness.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in nl
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




Voss wrote:
 DeffDred wrote:
yes its fluffy...but no it doesnt fit into the established fluff


LOL WUT?
It has been long established in the fluff.
Back in 3rd Ed, Thousand Sons, Space Wolves and Dark Angels all had special rules when fighting one another.
Just because you're unfamiliar with the history of the game doesn't mean this rule is unfluffy.


It isn't fluffy that they get magic power ups out of it,

It was there in the fluff to establish rivalry, not to give melee characters a power up, or to randomly jam a single space wolf model into a DA list.


Not "magic power ups". The bonuses simply represent them getting fired up from the duel and not wanting to look like a weakling to the other in the following battle, so they fight harder than they normally would. The potential mortal wound is there to represent them possibly getting injured during the duel.
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




tneva82 wrote:
Voss wrote:
 DeffDred wrote:
yes its fluffy...but no it doesnt fit into the established fluff


LOL WUT?
It has been long established in the fluff.
Back in 3rd Ed, Thousand Sons, Space Wolves and Dark Angels all had special rules when fighting one another.
Just because you're unfamiliar with the history of the game doesn't mean this rule is unfluffy.


It isn't fluffy that they get magic power ups out of it,

It was there in the fluff to establish rivalry, not to give melee characters a power up, or to randomly jam a single space wolf model into a DA list.


Same could be said about lots of bonus rules that are there just for coolness.


That they shouldn't be there? Yes indeed.
'Coolness' isn't a rule element.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

Sunny Side Up wrote:
 Formosa wrote:


DARK ANGELS DO NOT PLAY WELL WITH OTHERS


Not well doesn't mean they don't



Regardless of its origin the two Legions (and their subsequent Chapters) have never forgotten their feud and tensions run high between them. Though the Chapters have fought together on many occasions the vows made by their progenitors long ago have resulted in customary duels between them. It has come to pass that each time the Chapters meet two champions are selected from both sides to engage in a (usually) non-lethal duel.


This goes back to 2nd edition pretty much. The very fact that there is an established ritual for just that particular occasion kinda proves that this isn't an unheard of occasion. And Space Wolves aren't numerous either. For every battle Dark Angels did with Space Wolves, ritual and all, they probably did a hundred battles allied with Ultramarines-successor-chapter 123 and several thousand with Imperial Guard regiment 7384324.

Space Wolves & Dark Angels allied is almost certainly a more frequent even than .. say ... just the Deathwing all on their own out fighting as a pure force.


Never said they didnt fight with anyone, they just dont choose to often, they dont play well with others.

CHAPTERS, no mega rare, companies or parts of companies, yeah probably happens every now and then, not disputing that at all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Daedalus81 wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
This is to the White Knights on here, Yes some people like this strat, some dont like it (or think its in the wrong place like me), no it doesnt fit the fluff, Dark Angels traditionally dont ally well with others, THIS is a part of the fluff, now they DO have a rivalry with the Space Wolves and that is what this Strat is showing, its a fluff ability that encourages (NOT FORCES...) the Dark Angel player to take Allies, something that Dark Angels usually dont like to do if they can avoid it (dont want people snooping around, not to mention they are not trusted and are known for just abandoning there allies), and again this strat is for those times where they happen to be allied with Space Wolves.

It is not whining when people want there Dark Angels traits to only be for Dark Angels and not require an outside army to be able to be used, it is a valid and understandable response to this particular strat, that however does not make this strat utterly worthless IF and only IF you want to take Space Wolf allies, for those that do not, then they have access to one less trait in matched play, had it been 0CP then I am sure no one would have minded, add it in as an army trait (and for space wolves) because if I am allying Space Wolves then I am already splitting my army up and paying points for these other units that cannot share a lot of rules, as it stands now, yes its fluffy, yes it can make some interesting combos but no it doesnt fit into the established fluff and matched play.

DARK ANGELS DO NOT PLAY WELL WITH OTHERS


They're not white knights for pointing out that it's an over the top complaint. I can't wait for this same nonsense when the SW book comes out and has the same ability. And SW will have their own abilities to apply to that portion of the army.

Now heaven help us if there are two such stratagems in the book. The whole internet will gak themselves with rage and make DJT the King of America.


No I am talking to the specific people who no matter what dismiss other peoples concerns just to white knight for games workshop, like it cant get anything wrong, its not over the top its a valid concern, some may have taken it over the top however. I did mention that I wondered if it would end up in the Space Wolves codex, personally I think it will, and yep Wolves have there own abilities, but that doesnt detract from the fact that there is little to no overlap and this strat expects you to take Wolves in a Dark Angel army (and vice versa if the strat goes to the wolves), what about those people who dont want to collect wolves, or just dont like them (cant stand a lot of there models myself, will be getting the HH ones, I think they look nicer, subjective I know), they are not forced to buy those models sure, so they shouldnt have put this strat in the strats part of the book, it should be a side trait.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 DeffDred wrote:
yes its fluffy...but no it doesnt fit into the established fluff


LOL WUT?
It has been long established in the fluff.
Back in 3rd Ed, Thousand Sons, Space Wolves and Dark Angels all had special rules when fighting one another.
Just because you're unfamiliar with the history of the game doesn't mean this rule is unfluffy.


I should have been clearer, I know the fluff very well and thank you for pointing out my lack of clarity, this rule for clarity is a very specific minor event in the overall fluff of the Dark Angels, where as them leaving battles to hunt the fallen, ignoring pleas for aid for similar reasons, refusing to work with any Xenos or mutant is more prominent, they are also know for straight up abandoning allies and not wanting the Inquisition around, and now suddenly we have a strat that expects you to ally in a force that Dark Angels distrust and this is from a Distrusting chapter that will not ally mutants, did you forget that rule?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kdash wrote:
So, I think the main problem a lot of people are having with this stratagem, is a result of the matched play rules.

At the end of the day, the -vast- majority of games played use the Matched play format (competitive or not), so, as a result, to even use this stratagem you are going to need to spend, at least, a couple of hundred points for a patrol detachment of Wolves (or DA if you’re a SW player). This is simply because of the battleforged rules, and needing to keep each detachment “pure” in order to gain the benefits of each army. Yes, people do play narrative and open play games frequently, but, i would be astounded if the number of games played in those 2 styles comes anywhere close to matching games played using matched play.

Now… If the SW’s got a rule saying something like “1 unit of SW infantry can be included in any Space Marine army and will not have an impact on (or benefit from) the host armies battleforged rules”, it would make things interesting. This would be similar to how Scions work in Astra Militarum, and a way of representing how they were used as “watchful eyes” on the other legions in the Heresy. This would be super cool, fluffy AND make this stratagem actually worth something.

However, without a rule like that, I’m also in the camp of “well, never going to use that”. That is simply because I don’t see the benefits outweighing the cost of a CP (which you’ll be limited on anyway if you have to take a patrol detachment) and the potential cost of 2 wounds on my characters. Sure, it’d benefit the SW model if/when it gets to combat, but as the DA want to be more about shooting right now….

Sure, it’s kinda fluffy, but, currently, I put this stratagem in the same basket as the Admech Scryerskull stratagem…


Thats fair/

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/12/04 16:14:57


 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on a Boar





Galveston County

Why is this trolling still going on?

Sounds like a different forum discussion, as the last two pages has nothing to do with the actual release...

Just waiting for today’s article!

No madam, 40,000 is the year that this game is set in. Not how much it costs. Though you may have a point. - GW Fulchester
The Gatling Guns have flamethrowers on them because this is 40k - DOW III
 
   
Made in nl
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler




tneva82 wrote:
Suggested elsewhere: that bonus to ws2 guy, goes to ws1. Usually pointless as 1 hits but add power fist...fist that still hits on 2 plus


I wonder how that's gonna work with reroll aura's... on the one hand, he has WS 1+ so a 1 would be a hit but a Power Fist gives it a negative modifier and since rerolls occur before modifiers, you'd not be allowed to reroll 1s since they're technically hits. On the other hand another rule states that hit rolls of 1 are always failures, meaning that you actually would be allowed a reroll. And thus, chaos and a ton of threads full or rage and insults in You Make Da Call ensued...
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

Pandabeer wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Suggested elsewhere: that bonus to ws2 guy, goes to ws1. Usually pointless as 1 hits but add power fist...fist that still hits on 2 plus


I wonder how that's gonna work with reroll aura's... on the one hand, he has WS 1+ so a 1 would be a hit but a Power Fist gives it a negative modifier and since rerolls occur before modifiers, you'd not be allowed to reroll 1s since they're technically hits. On the other hand another rule states that hit rolls of 1 are always failures, meaning that you actually would be allowed a reroll. And thus, chaos and a ton of threads full or rage and insults in You Make Da Call ensued...


He will reroll everything. You reroll fail to hits roll. A 1 is always a fail, even if you have ws+1.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
 
Forum Index » News & Rumors
Go to: