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2017/12/04 00:41:00
Subject: Re:Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Galas wrote: GI_Redshirt wrote:I don't find it any more limiting than having to buy a Predator or Landspeeder to use certain stratagems.
If you don't like the models, you're screwed.
To be fair, Predators and Landspeeders are actually units within the Dark Angels army. Anything Space Wolf is not. Having to buy certain models from within your army range to make use of the rules in your codex is one thing, and is expected of the hobby. Having to buy models that are from a completely different army in order to make use of rules from your own army's codex is completely different. This isn't an Imperium codex or a general Space Marine Codex. This is the Dark Angels codex. It stands to reason that any rules within it would require only Dark Angels units and models to make use of. This is like giving SM a strategem that they need Imperial Guard within their army to make use of. Or CSM needing Daemons. Or Eldar needing Harlequins.
Why should a player be forced to purchase models from a different army in order to make use of their army's full rules and codex options? I'm not complaining about it not being good or not being competitive, I simply have an issue with players being forced to collect a different army in order to play with all their strategems.
CSM need demons to summon them. Thats a special rule of that army.
As a Dark Angel player, this rule is not only fun to use, but is actually pretty damm good. Paying 1 CP to give a Company Commander in Terminator Armour with TH and SS +1 WS so he hits with the TH in 2+, +1 attack and efectively +2S? And all those bonuses to a SW HQ too. Yes please.
Is both fluffy and very damm powerfull. Of course people can chose to not use it. I don't know if people realizes this was a rule in 3rd edition for the Dark Angels and Space Wolves. I think is pretty damm cool that they have revived that rule with this special stratagem.
Stop right there you damm Matched play fanatics, you are not the only players out there. I have already talk with my group to use this stratagem in narrative games agaisn't the two players that use SW wolves. This is a nice bone out there for the old fans of the armies, and in the plus side it can open new armies styles. Theres nothing bad about this, literally.
And no "But they force me to buy SW to use this, if I don't use this i'm at a disadvantage!" no. It cost you 1 CP. If you don't use that CP in this stratagem you can use it in others.
No way, I am expected (not forced) to BUY space wolves to make my DARK ANGEL army, its not that I dont like Space Wolves or anything and I may just buy some to make a fluffy army, but that doesnt detract from the fact that why should a Dark Angel trait have a Space Wolf condition, it is silly, if they wanted to do something like this then why not make an "allies" strat deck for people to buy (I like this idea), this deck could encourage fluffy combos of certain armies, for example I would not expect Tyranids to have a Genestealer cult strat, but this Deck could.
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2017/12/04 00:45:08
Subject: Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
Vigo. Spain.
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If they release a "Allies Stratagems deck" then people will complain that they need to buy extra rules/products to mix armies and be competitive. GW can't win with this.
Take this stratagem as a nice and fluffy extra if you like to mixe forces. Nothing else. If this was a free special rule, I could understand the complaints. But it is not, as a stratagem it has a cost in CP. If you don't use it, you aren't competitively punished in any shape or form.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/04 00:46:11
Crimson Devil wrote:
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote:Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
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2017/12/04 00:46:59
Subject: Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Galas wrote:If they release a "Allies Stratagems deck" then people will complain that they need to buy extra rules/products to mix armies and be competitive. GW can't win with this.
Take this stratagem as a nice and fluffy extra if you like to mixe forces. Nothing else.
Yeah you are right, I am only complaining about needing a non Dark Angel element to use a Dark Angel trait
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2017/12/04 00:48:00
Subject: Re:Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Some people own both armies. Some people will likely have both codexes. This Strategem is for them. No one is being forced to run Space Wolves here.
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5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts |
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2017/12/04 00:53:30
Subject: Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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Dakka Veteran
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^^^this. I have about 10K in space wolves and about 7K in deathwing. This strat is for people in my situation.
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2017/12/04 01:00:53
Subject: Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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Nightlord1987 wrote:*Is excited to hear DA and BA players stop whining about being the worst*
Oh wait.
I think it's worth remembering for all of us that no matter how poorly your faction is doing, you're still outperforming Necrons.
Unless you're Necrons, I guess. Poor Necrons. :(
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2017/12/04 01:08:01
Subject: Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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yellowfever wrote:^^^this. I have about 10K in space wolves and about 7K in deathwing. This strat is for people in my situation.
As someone who plays three unrelated Space Marine armies and possess models for four more, I can definitely feel you with that one.
It is a cool Strategem, it just won't see a lot of play for a lot of people. But who knows, maybe some DA and SW players will grab a few models from the other faction.
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5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts |
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2017/12/04 01:16:56
Subject: Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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Nasty Nob on a Boar
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Apothecary heal this?
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No madam, 40,000 is the year that this game is set in. Not how much it costs. Though you may have a point. - GW Fulchester
The Gatling Guns have flamethrowers on them because this is 40k - DOW III
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2017/12/04 01:18:58
Subject: Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
Vigo. Spain.
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Yeah, an aphotecary can heal the wound they lose on a 4+.
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Crimson Devil wrote:
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote:Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
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2017/12/04 01:28:24
Subject: Re:Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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casvalremdeikun wrote:Some people own both armies. Some people will likely have both codexes. This Strategem is for them. No one is being forced to run Space Wolves here.
Yeah I said that earlier, "expected to (Not forces)"
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2017/12/04 01:38:50
Subject: Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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Never Forget Isstvan!
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So much hate on necrons when they have the best vehicle army in the game atm.
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JOIN MY CRUSADE and gain 4000 RT points!
http://www.eternalcrusade.com/account/sign-up/?ref_code=EC-PLCIKYCABW8PG |
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2017/12/04 01:42:10
Subject: Re:Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Formosa wrote: casvalremdeikun wrote:Some people own both armies. Some people will likely have both codexes. This Strategem is for them. No one is being forced to run Space Wolves here.
Yeah I said that earlier, "expected to (Not forces)"
Do you ever use all the stratagems in a in a game anyways? I think its really awesome and hope they do more of this because I never really wanted to collect space wolves after returning to the hobby but think its really cool I could convert a group of wolfguard, add a sweet theme fluff to my army and have a stratigum to go with it.
I am assuming if said unit is in my battalion my dark angels lose their legion trait like the plaguebearers in a deathguard detachment. In that case its a big tax to spend 1CP
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Trades and sales with:
lilted, puma713, ryanguy322, Dunk, Shadowbrand, zwillia3, BigWaaagh, SickSix |
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2017/12/04 01:42:51
Subject: Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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Eihnlazer wrote:So much hate on necrons when they have the best vehicle army in the game atm.
That's a bold claim to make when Space Marines are placing with their Razorbacks and Stormravens and Guard is placing with their everything. Tell me, how many doomsday arks have you seen at top tables?
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2017/12/04 02:10:52
Subject: Re:Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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gainsay wrote: Formosa wrote: casvalremdeikun wrote:Some people own both armies. Some people will likely have both codexes. This Strategem is for them. No one is being forced to run Space Wolves here.
Yeah I said that earlier, "expected to (Not forces)"
Do you ever use all the stratagems in a in a game anyways? I think its really awesome and hope they do more of this because I never really wanted to collect space wolves after returning to the hobby but think its really cool I could convert a group of wolfguard, add a sweet theme fluff to my army and have a stratigum to go with it.
I am assuming if said unit is in my battalion my dark angels lose their legion trait like the plaguebearers in a deathguard detachment. In that case its a big tax to spend 1CP
Hey man I am not detracting it for anyone else, I just dont think it should be in this book, I buy the Dark Angels codex for Dark Angels, not Dark Angels and Space Wolves, I even said I may buy some Space Wolves for this but, as I have said I think this strat is in the wrong place, will it also be in the Space Wolf Codex?
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2017/12/04 02:17:26
Subject: Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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[DCM]
Secret Squirrel
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It's a Dark Angels rule in a Dark Angels book for Dark Angels players who think it might be fun to play out a piece of fluff that has been present every since the 2nd Edition Codex.
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2017/12/04 02:55:30
Subject: Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Galas wrote:Yeah, an aphotecary can heal the wound they lose on a 4+.
That's not how apothecaries work. They auto heal D3 wounds from a wounded model each turn, if there is no models with missing wounds but there is dead models, on a 4+ they bring a model in that unit back with 1 wound
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2017/12/04 02:58:05
Subject: Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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Terrifying Doombull
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Galas wrote:If they release a "Allies Stratagems deck" then people will complain that they need to buy extra rules/products to mix armies and be competitive. GW can't win with this.
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True. They should just keep armies as self-contained organizations, not grant magical power ups for honor duel formalities that probably took place on someone's ship weeks before the battle happens.
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Efficiency is the highest virtue. |
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2017/12/04 03:04:36
Subject: Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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d-usa wrote:It's a Dark Angels rule in a Dark Angels book for Dark Angels players who think it might be fun to play out a piece of fluff that has been present every since the 2nd Edition Codex.
No it's a dark angels book for dark angels players that require you to get space wolves to use all of your books contents, and the fluff was that if both were in the same place at the same time (not nessearily in battle) they would choose a champion to fight each other, that should be a pure fluff thing and not an ingame mechanic to gain a boost for a possible lost wound And a command point, that's pure non matched play, which is where it belongs, and there I would have no issue with it, and yes I know not everyone plays matched play (apparently, never ever seen a game that didn't use points personally) and some stuff should be thrown in books for them, but it feels like it's in the wrong place and either should be free for non matched play, or in an "allies" strat deck.
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2017/12/04 03:08:42
Subject: Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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d-usa wrote:It's a Dark Angels rule in a Dark Angels book for Dark Angels players who think it might be fun to play out a piece of fluff that has been present every since the 2nd Edition Codex.
^This!
I have old DW / RW army that I'm hoping to dust off... and using that SW strategem looks knarly!
-Team Unforgiven
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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2017/12/04 03:10:40
Subject: Re:Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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I guess I'm lucky that I've got some Space Wolves handy. The Stratagem looks fun, although I doubt I'll use it much. Still, I might ally in some ThunderCav with my Ravenwing at some point.
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2017/12/04 03:13:16
Subject: Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
Vigo. Spain.
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bobafett012 wrote: Galas wrote:Yeah, an aphotecary can heal the wound they lose on a 4+.
That's not how apothecaries work. They auto heal D3 wounds from a wounded model each turn, if there is no models with missing wounds but there is dead models, on a 4+ they bring a model in that unit back with 1 wound
Ehmm... and where exactly I have contradicted that? With the 4+ I wasn't refering to the aphotecary but to the Stratagem.
Voss wrote: Galas wrote:If they release a "Allies Stratagems deck" then people will complain that they need to buy extra rules/products to mix armies and be competitive. GW can't win with this.
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True. They should just keep armies as self-contained organizations, not grant magical power ups for honor duel formalities that probably took place on someone's ship weeks before the battle happens.
If you want you can find the nonsense in every stratagem. If you want to be upsted about this stratagem, ok, you are free to do it. As a dark angel player I like it, and maybe I'll use it in some ocasion. Thats enough for me for a stratagem.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/04 03:15:29
Crimson Devil wrote:
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote:Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
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2017/12/04 03:17:12
Subject: Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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[DCM]
Secret Squirrel
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Formosa wrote: d-usa wrote:It's a Dark Angels rule in a Dark Angels book for Dark Angels players who think it might be fun to play out a piece of fluff that has been present every since the 2nd Edition Codex.
No it's a dark angels book for dark angels players that require you to get space wolves to use all of your books contents, and the fluff was that if both were in the same place at the same time (not nessearily in battle) they would choose a champion to fight each other, that should be a pure fluff thing and not an ingame mechanic to gain a boost for a possible lost wound And a command point, that's pure non matched play, which is where it belongs, and there I would have no issue with it, and yes I know not everyone plays matched play (apparently, never ever seen a game that didn't use points personally) and some stuff should be thrown in books for them, but it feels like it's in the wrong place and either should be free for non matched play, or in an "allies" strat deck.
I’m sure there will be other models you will have to buy to use all of the book. The same argument of “I shouldn’t have to buy a Wolf to use every option in the book” can be used against any new model in the book. “I shouldn’t have to buy a Stormraven to use every option in the book” as an example.
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2017/12/04 05:19:09
Subject: Re:Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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Rampaging Carnifex
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It's clear they are trying to write fun rules for the fluffy narrative gamers as well as the competitive players. Unless this is the only stratagem in the book, I don't see the problem.
Maybe they took all those Dark Angel / Space Wolf bark bark star lists back in 7th too literally.
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2017/12/04 05:26:56
Subject: Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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Rookie Pilot
Lotusland
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I was excited to see the DA rumour thread having grown several pages since last I looked - maybe there's some good new info, I thought.
Nope. Just a few people whining about a stratagem on the flimsiest of pretexts, and people replying to them.
Awesome.
... and now I'm adding to it.
Even more awesome.
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2017/12/04 05:52:53
Subject: Re:Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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bullyboy wrote:
This is a really strange outlook to me. I chose DAs because I like DAs. I don't like Wolves, UMs etc. Not taking a unit in my chosen force is not even close to not taking something from an entirely different army. Not the same game, not even in the same ballpark.
I guess if you want to use the strat....just take a small tac sqd and character (or whatever the wulfies get) and paint them as DAs but just use wolf rules. Really dumb though. I appreciate the fluff, but to include it as a strategem that does take the spot of a regular strategem (regardless of how many they had) is kind of sucky.
And I collect Marines of various colours, because I like them and think they are cool. I don't like the boxy tanks though, so I don't collect those.
Horses for courses.
The point is, just because I don't enjoy X from the GW product range as much as others do, doesn't mean I, yes I, demand that GW write every rules publication to just my personal preferences and mine alone, and better not dare print 2 sentences about stuff that I, yes I, don't like. If other people like the stuff I don't like as much, feth them. GW better be my personal rules-writing-slave writing publications just for me and me alone!!!!!
What kinda stupid kindergarten attitude is that?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/04 05:53:19
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2017/12/04 07:18:19
Subject: Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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Stalwart Dark Angels Space Marine
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No excitement at finally getting some AA? We now have access to the Stalker and the Hunter. That has to be a plus!
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Dark Angels > Purple Death Legion (Purple Vanilla Marines) > Dark Angels > Death Watch > Thousand Sons with special appearances by Tzeench Demons |
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2017/12/04 07:41:53
Subject: Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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Fixture of Dakka
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Zillian wrote:No excitement at finally getting some AA? We now have access to the Stalker and the Hunter. That has to be a plus!
No one needs AA tho. What is it gonna shoot at? Crimson Hunter and Fire Raptors are about the only usable flyer after chapter approved releases. For flying units without hard to hit, lascannons work just fine.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/04 07:42:20
Keeper of the DomBox
Warhammer Armies - Click to see galleries of fully painted armies
32,000, 19,000, Renegades - 10,000 , 7,500, |
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2017/12/04 08:17:06
Subject: Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk
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I have two friends high five-ing over this, since one plays DA and the other Space Wolves. They already declared that they will always team up from now on.
So at least two people are very happy with this stratagem.
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7 Ork facts people always get wrong:
Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other.
A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot.
Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests.
Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why.
Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor.
Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers.
Orks do not have the power of believe. |
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2017/12/04 08:27:33
Subject: Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Arachnofiend wrote:Looking at the codexes I have access to, AdMech has 28 stratagems, CSM has 24, and Death Guard has 14. So there's clearly some variance in how many stratagems an army gets with no fixed number.
Ok so where this "max number of strategems" comes from?
I could see complain on warlord traits, relics and faction specific objectives as those are d6 based so there's limit but strategems are as many as GW wants to print. There's no hard code limit that I can see.
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2024 painted/bought: 109/109 |
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2017/12/04 08:38:17
Subject: Codex Dark Angels! Preorder 9th Dec!
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Unhealthy Competition With Other Legions
Lost Carcosa
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tneva82 wrote: Arachnofiend wrote:Looking at the codexes I have access to, AdMech has 28 stratagems, CSM has 24, and Death Guard has 14. So there's clearly some variance in how many stratagems an army gets with no fixed number.
Ok so where this "max number of strategems" comes from?
I could see complain on warlord traits, relics and faction specific objectives as those are d6 based so there's limit but strategems are as many as GW wants to print. There's no hard code limit that I can see.
Not to mention that once you start talking about soup lists, you have access to all the stratagems from every codex you have a detachment from.
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Standing in the light, I see only darkness. |
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