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jtrowell wrote:
@TheAuldGrump , I am loving how you describe your "Kids of War" games, I laughted when you mentionned that of your 4 players "only" 9 showed for your painting session. ^_^

Myself I am currently more occupied by my ongoing D&D 4th edition campaign and I play a lots of boardgames that occupy my time, but I am still deeply involved in KoW and trying to recruit more of my friends (most of them stopped playing when they got kids (plus AoS), and I a hopping to convert them once the kids will be old enough that the parent are no longer as exhausted (or even better old enough for the kids to play themselves )

Turns out that a bunch of those kids are using the miniatures we painted as an art project for school - and it is doing very well for them.

Sam (short for Samantha) is going to be a danger when she grows up.

She is the youngest of the players in my Tuesday night Pathfinder game - yet somehow it seems to always be her schemes that end up happening. (She is playing a Kitsune witch in what started as Skull & Shackles, but as of tonight has officially sailed off course.)

The Auld Grump

A couple of games ticking along, but diminishing in popularity thanks to stupidity at their respective designers.

Kings of War : went from a few people really interested to zero. Turns out FLGS don't stock games where the company is actively trying to avoid you by Kickstarting everything.

Dropzone/Dropfleet: Was the game of choice at the store, we had a really good Talon. So good, he started to work for Hawk. TT Combat made him redundant along with a load of others, after lying to him not a day before. So the interest has dropped off for the time being.

Bolt action: Only thing that seems to be surviving, decent amount of play at both FLGS near me. It's scratching a historical itch that doesn't have a huge amount of competition.

WMH: Dead. Dead dead dead. Turns out messing up distribution, pissing off the user base, and then failing to address said supply issues to FLGS mean dead. On a personal note, good riddance, far too many bad people played it in my store, they can go stink up the atmosphere somewhere else

Oh wow, I didn't realise kickstarting did that. :/

Baron Klatz wrote:
Oh wow, I didn't realise kickstarting did that. :/

If you have 10 interested people that want a shiny new KoW rulebook. Do you

a. Buy it from a retailer for x amount, then spend 5x on models for said system
b. Kickstarter back it, spending 2x on the book and more models.

The counter argument by Mantic is that they do retailer pledges for some projects. But why wait for a retailer when on the same page is a huge discount and loads of exclusive stuff.

The cult of Ronnie is a strange one, they seem more rabid than any other system supporters.

We have one retailer that has stopped bothering with them, and another that is thinking the same. I bought the rulebook from my FLGS, as I have no interest in feeding the greed of Mantic. But like with Dreadball, people lose trust in a company and leave.

Hawkwargames was bought out by another compay

They immediatly fired 80% of the team

"Doomtrain" is the correct term. Also another kickstarter/third game?


Considering ditching and selling my $1000~ of Dropzone stuff now

 Stevefamine wrote:
Hawkwargames was bought out by another compay

They immediatly fired 80% of the team

"Doomtrain" is the correct term. Also another kickstarter/third game?


Considering ditching and selling my $1000~ of Dropzone stuff now

Don't forget they are ditching the fluff heavy concept that said 'we aren't doing rebs in dropfleet as from a fluff point, it's really stupid' to 'we like money (not to pay staff with)'

I have mine on sale now, from a moral standpoint I can't buy any more, which kills the game for me unfortunately. Hopefully this new Andy Chambers WW2 BoB game scratches the airborne itch

Thebiggesthat wrote:

 Stevefamine wrote:
Hawkwargames was bought out by another compay

They immediatly fired 80% of the team

"Doomtrain" is the correct term. Also another kickstarter/third game?


Considering ditching and selling my $1000~ of Dropzone stuff now

Don't forget they are ditching the fluff heavy concept that said 'we aren't doing rebs in dropfleet as from a fluff point, it's really stupid' to 'we like money (not to pay staff with)'

I have mine on sale now, from a moral standpoint I can't buy any more, which kills the game for me unfortunately. Hopefully this new Andy Chambers WW2 BoB game scratches the airborne itch

Check my dakka gallery lol - I was extremely invested in the game. 3 armies, full table, two dropfleet lists and so on. RIP

It was a genuinely innovative and it scratched the itch that was Epic Armageddon. I always wanted to play as a young kid but by the time I was a teenager that game was OOP. I really liked the two years or so I played DZC

I'm being super cautious on my end RE: DZC/DFC, but I'm not dumping anything yet. I'm waiting to see where everything goes as I still love both game systems. My main concern has always been US distribution. When it was just Hawk, models were slowly getting out to us. They stopped during/after the Kickstarter and now we're in a holding pattern until TTCombat figures out how they're going to distribute in the States.

I can't see any logical place for a third game in the Dropzone universe unless they're talking about a RPG. There's a lot of people hoping for a 28mm skirmish game (representing CQB I think), and I just don't see it because the market is oversaturated with that type of game and I really can't see what it'd bring that isn't already being done by 4 other games. While an RPG isn't exactly new either, it gives them a place for exposition on fluff and is much more open for players.

Not really happy with the firings either, but not really surprised. They only wanted Dave, Patrice, and the IPs.

The Resistance fleet fluff part is..meh. It honestly wouldn't have bothered me either way. There's a solid fluff explanation as to why one doesn't exist, but I'm sure they can add a good one in if they want to do it. Call it the "Too many years playing GW games" syndrome.

Steve, your DZC table was amazing! A labor of love. What a terrible shame they put you off the game.

I'll wait to see how they handle the fluff, but I am not really prepared to quit buying their plastic spaceships. I may have a problem.

Thebiggesthat wrote:

Baron Klatz wrote:
Oh wow, I didn't realise kickstarting did that. :/

If you have 10 interested people that want a shiny new KoW rulebook. Do you

a. Buy it from a retailer for x amount, then spend 5x on models for said system
b. Kickstarter back it, spending 2x on the book and more models.

The counter argument by Mantic is that they do retailer pledges for some projects. But why wait for a retailer when on the same page is a huge discount and loads of exclusive stuff.

The cult of Ronnie is a strange one, they seem more rabid than any other system supporters.

We have one retailer that has stopped bothering with them, and another that is thinking the same. I bought the rulebook from my FLGS, as I have no interest in feeding the greed of Mantic. But like with Dreadball, people lose trust in a company and leave.

Every local game store I've been to has cleared out Mantic and avoided stocking KoW or Warpath. (The Walking Dead has some traction, though.) The thing is, I would buy certain Mantic minis at retail, such as the Basliean Paladins, elf palace guard, enforcer dropship, and many Dreadball teams I missed during the KSes--but nobody carries them! It's a vicious circle. I would love to support the FLGS, but they feel too burned to carry Mantic, so now I have to go to Mantic and burn the KS.

I love X-wing

@Bobtheinquisitor yeah I understand the problem, I too have some mantic kits that I would probably buy at retail (even at a slightly increased price) juste for the convenience, but most local stores just don't stock and wait for someone to ask them to order something.

The thing is that if I must order and wait for something, I could as well order directly from Mantic (and I often do), so the store lose the impulse buy potential and try to compete with internet in a way that they cannot win.

I think that in the end however it's maybe not the problem that we believe it to be : internet has been replacing many stores, but it's the fate off all disruptive technologies.

What I expect to see more and more in the future is the smaller companies using internet (including kickstarter) as a way to sell their product, and store specialising in specific ranges, eitheir for products that really gain to be seen before buying, convenient tools that you need now (paints and brush in our case), and things that have proven to have a local presence first (probably the hardest part, you have first for a product to be sucessful only with internet and mouth to mouth, and then the store take the risk of joining by stocking the product to ride the local popularity)

My gaming group may be atypical - we are a small group of 40-somethings who don't get to play as often as we like - maybe 2-3 times a month at best.

This has seen us move away from wargames and into board games more often than not.

The 2 reasons for this are:

time constraints - not just playing time but list writing, painting, packing an army etc

Moving from one edition to another - might sound daft but we're still getting used to the new rules and this means that playing games take longer and are less fun so we have been sticking to board games.

The 2 games we have been playing a lot of have been Zombicide - Black Plague and Massive Darkness.

I haven't played a single full game of 8th yet and only played about 5 games of 7th - but have been board gaming regularly for about 2 years now.

leopard wrote:

 Easy E wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
If you're doing historical WW2, skip FoW and go for the Battlefront series ---- absolutely heads and tails above FoW.

X2!

I would also strongly recommend Chain of Command too!

Own but have yet to play Chain of Command, the deployment system looks amazing, why don't more games have something like that in there?

Also heard good things about Battlegroup

Our honeymoon with the new 40k edition has waned and we have comfortably settled back in my to Battlegroup, reinvigorated by the new Market Garden release. I love GW models, fluff, universe, ect...and I even believe the new edition is probably one of the best yet. But after playing in 15mm on larger spaces it's just difficult to return to large 28mm armies on a 6x4.

I think 40k is slowing down here but it will never die. I certainly hope it never does as I always enjoy following it even when I'm not playing.

So back to the tried and tested Battlegroup Series it is for me, though Necromunda is going to be a very difficult rabbit hole not to fall down....

I'm not really sure about how my non-GW games are doing, but I'll guess based on my limited glimpse of the local market and my experinces on Dakka TMP and LEadAd.

Note that this is alot of speculation since I don't get to local FLGS's more than once every few weeks.

Frostrgrave. This game seems to be doing well they are keeping up a very consistent release schedule. We've only played a few times but we enjoy it and will continue to.

Konflikt '47. Very unsure. I hear almost no one talking about it even on the official forums. Still, A new army was just released and we are just about to get the expansion rulebook.

Runewars. I think folks are worried about it's future now that SW Legion is coming out. Still it did just get a new army and a 4th is on schedule for release. It is still played some at our FLGS.

Walking Dead: We are loving this game, but I haven't seen anyone else locally playing it. Still, Mantic keeps up a release schedule so who knows how it is really doing.

Other very small games we enjoy like Song of Blades, Dragon Rampant, Mech Attack we've almost never seen played locally outside our group, but those games continue to be available and their business model doesn't depend at all on mass-acceptance.

I'm hoping to play some 'Warhammer' games this winter with the rules from One Page Rules. Hopefully I get a gaming renaissance starting this winter, as my family and I are moving to a new house next door to my parents. Dad was pretty instrumental in getting me into wargaming back in the day with Heroquest and Battlemasters, and I have already gotten him back into some gaming with Star Wars Armada and the boardgame Heroes of Normandie (an awesome WW2 boardgame that plays more like a minis game).

The One Page Rules material is great as I can enjoy the Warhammer and 40k universes, but with a light ruleset that I can teach in it's entirety in a single game, which is important as I have to host nearly any game I want to play, only having a gaming group of 2-3 other people. 40k and AoS have gotten too bloated for me to get my friends to play, with tons of rules minutia and page flipping/multiple book referencing that turns them off.

'Course my gaming dead zone can be a benefit sometimes, too, as I can basically do anything I want as long as I am willing to do the work to sell it. For example, one of my buddies is a huge fan of Legend of the 5 Rings, so I may try to play some games with him in that universe using either Song of Blades and Heroes or the One Page Rules Warhammer skirmish rules, with Samurai figures from the Test of Honor minis game, and some of my Skaven would make an excellent Nezumi force (ratmen in L5R).

Hell, I even just recently (re)discovered a ruleset (Rogue Planet) that might make it worthwhile to finally open my box of Sedition Wars after 5 years of regret and inability to see any recoup in what I spent on it.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I'm hoping to play some 'Warhammer' games this winter with the rules from One Page Rules. Hopefully I get a gaming renaissance starting this winter, as my family and I are moving to a new house next door to my parents. Dad was pretty instrumental in getting me into wargaming back in the day with Heroquest and Battlemasters, and I have already gotten him back into some gaming with Star Wars Armada and the boardgame Heroes of Normandie (an awesome WW2 game)..

The One Page Rules material is great as I can enjoy the Warhammer and 40k universes, but with a light ruleset that I can teach in it's entirety in a single game, which is important as I have to host nearly any game I want to play, only having a gaming group of 2-3 other people. 40k and AoS have gotten too bloated for me to get my friends to play, with tons of rules minutia and page flipping/multiple book referencing that turns them off.

'Course my gaming dead zone can be a benefit sometimes, too, as I can basically do anything I want as long as I am willing to do the work to sell it. For example, one of my buddies is a huge fan of Legend of the 5 Rings, so I may try to play some games with him in that universe using either Song of Blades and Heroes or the One Page Rules Warhammer skirmish rules, with Samurai figures from the Test of Honor minis game, and some of my Skaven would make an excellent Nezumi force (ratmen in L5R).

I also just recently (re)discovered a ruleset (Rogue Planet) that might make it worthwhile to finally open my box of Sedition Wars after 5 years of regret and inability to see any recoup in what I spent on it.

I would be curious to hear battle report and or impressions from Rogue Planet, I own it but haven’t played it (and from googling around, neither has anyone else).

I haven't played it yet either, but maybe this winter I'll give it a try, as the weapons profiles match up really nicely to the Vanguard in SedWars, even if the Strain will take just a little work, though they should work just fine too (the Groups mechanic will be great for the basic zombies). It's lack of measuring will be something new and different to get my head around. If it works out, I may get some of the Ghar Battlesuits from Gates of Antares for a third race of walking tanks.

Also may try to bust out all my AT-43 and Confrontation prepaints, as I loved those games when they came out and have 4 large armies for each game.

Too...many...games!

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I haven't played it yet either, but maybe this winter I'll give it a try, as the weapons profiles match up really nicely to the Vanguard in SedWars, even if the Strain will take just a little work, though they should work just fine too (the Groups mechanic will be great for the basic zombies). It's lack of measuring will be something new and different to get my head around. If it works out, I may get some of the Ghar Battlesuits from Gates of Antares for a third race of walking tanks.

Also may try to bust out all my AT-43 and Confrontation prepaints, as I loved those games when they came out and have 4 large armies for each game.

Too...many...games!

Just finished a game of Confrontation yesterday still Love it! was curious, did you see the pre army books for the other factions? they seem pretty legit and compete fairly well against the rest, stags and minotaurs so far have played very well. I have had to build most of my rams army out of metals, and filled in some lion gaps with them as well (its rough to get pieces anymore)

I play bolt action and X-Wing, sometimes. In addition, I'm currently play testing my own wargame, Dark Borders.

If any of you are interested, I'll send you a copy of the WIP rules.

 thekingofkings wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I haven't played it yet either, but maybe this winter I'll give it a try, as the weapons profiles match up really nicely to the Vanguard in SedWars, even if the Strain will take just a little work, though they should work just fine too (the Groups mechanic will be great for the basic zombies). It's lack of measuring will be something new and different to get my head around. If it works out, I may get some of the Ghar Battlesuits from Gates of Antares for a third race of walking tanks.

Also may try to bust out all my AT-43 and Confrontation prepaints, as I loved those games when they came out and have 4 large armies for each game.

Too...many...games!

Just finished a game of Confrontation yesterday still Love it! was curious, did you see the pre army books for the other factions? they seem pretty legit and compete fairly well against the rest, stags and minotaurs so far have played very well. I have had to build most of my rams army out of metals, and filled in some lion gaps with them as well (its rough to get pieces anymore)

Yeah, I never let the hatred for the prepaints stop me from having fun. Currently Im working on a converted 'Rat' army that uses GW Skaven and Ogres instead of Orcs, as the Stormvermin have a great samurai theme, and having the Rat as their patron is wonderfully pun filled, like the unit called 'samurats'.

 AegisGrimm wrote:

 thekingofkings wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I haven't played it yet either, but maybe this winter I'll give it a try, as the weapons profiles match up really nicely to the Vanguard in SedWars, even if the Strain will take just a little work, though they should work just fine too (the Groups mechanic will be great for the basic zombies). It's lack of measuring will be something new and different to get my head around. If it works out, I may get some of the Ghar Battlesuits from Gates of Antares for a third race of walking tanks.

Also may try to bust out all my AT-43 and Confrontation prepaints, as I loved those games when they came out and have 4 large armies for each game.

Too...many...games!

Just finished a game of Confrontation yesterday still Love it! was curious, did you see the pre army books for the other factions? they seem pretty legit and compete fairly well against the rest, stags and minotaurs so far have played very well. I have had to build most of my rams army out of metals, and filled in some lion gaps with them as well (its rough to get pieces anymore)

Yeah, I never let the hatred for the prepaints stop me from having fun. Currently Im working on a converted 'Rat' army that uses GW Skaven and Ogres instead of Orcs, as the Stormvermin have a great samurai theme, and having the Rat as their patron is wonderfully pun filled.

very punny...but seriously sounds interesting. I actually like the prepainted plastics (quicker to get on the tabletop for me) they are a pain in the arse to find, but patience on ebay has led me to quite a few, I use metals to fill in gaps in the army books. All my rats are the pirate gobelin faction.

Flames of War V4 seems to be an absolute train wreck. I moved away from my old group but according to them V4 and Team Yankee are a gakstorm of epic proportions.

Bolt Action V2 on the other hand is great. I've got several people interested in it among my 40k group and the game is a great deal of fun. I'm loving it and really looking forward to getting it going around here on a proper level.

X-Wing burned me out. It's still going strong but I feel like it's just become way too much work to keep up with all the releases and expansions. Many of my favorite ships took several expansions to get working again and some of the new rules like tractor beams really annoy me. Not really sure if I'll play it much again. That's mainly just personal preference though, nothing against the game.

Starship Troopers is ded, obviously

Frankly with X-Wing, I was a big fan of it back when it came out, but all the releases just left me behind. At this point, my buddy has tons of the traditional ships and the CR-90 from the first few waves. I may just get a couple of cool empire ships like a couple Starwings, a Gozanti and Raider (maybe even the big TIE bomber), and we'll have a nice enough combined set to play home games of 'X-Wing vs.TIE Fighter', and spice things up every once in a while with the Epic ships.

I just couldn't have any fun chasing all the necessary cards, especially the ones that are 'fix' cards, to have any fun as a casual-only player across all the releases with FFG's release model. Theres literally, what thousands to sort through now? Ugh.

I am finding Star Wars Armada to be much more accessible for my home games, as I always have to buy both sides anyway the card chasing is hurts much less with the smaller ship selection.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Frankly with X-Wing, I was a big fan of it back when it came out, but all the releases just left me behind. At this point, my buddy has tons of the traditional ships and the CR-90 from the first few waves. I may just get a couple of cool empire ships like a couple Starwings, a Gozanti and Raider (maybe even the big TIE bomber), and we'll have a nice enough combined set to play home games of 'X-Wing vs.TIE Fighter', and spice things up every once in a while with the Epic ships.

I just couldn't have any fun chasing all the necessary cards, especially the ones that are 'fix' cards, to have any fun as a casual-only player across all the releases with FFG's release model. Theres literally, what thousands to sort through now? Ugh.

I am finding Star Wars Armada to be much more accessible for my home games, as I always have to buy both sides anyway the card chasing is hurts much less with the smaller ship selection.

how are you liking armada? have played a few games myself, kinda like it (I collect the ships for it and x-wing for the rpg use)

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Flames of War V4 seems to be an absolute train wreck. I moved away from my old group but according to them V4 and Team Yankee are a gakstorm of epic proportions.

With Team Yankee, I thought the added pace of the game and destructive power of the weaponry suited the theme of modern combat perfectly (you can imagine it being like that, compared to WW2). And I don't think it's a bad game at all, with a lovely miniature range.

Then I have read that Battlefront did the same with the rules with V4, and have to say that makes a whole lot less sense. It does smack of releasing new rules for the sake of new rules. GW can get away with it because only they do 40k, Battlefront less so as historical players can quite easily jump ship to Battlegroup or any other WW2 historical setting that you care to mention.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Steve, your DZC table was amazing! A labor of love. What a terrible shame they put you off the game.

I'll wait to see how they handle the fluff, but I am not really prepared to quit buying their plastic spaceships. I may have a problem.

Thebiggesthat wrote:

Baron Klatz wrote:
Oh wow, I didn't realise kickstarting did that. :/

If you have 10 interested people that want a shiny new KoW rulebook. Do you

a. Buy it from a retailer for x amount, then spend 5x on models for said system
b. Kickstarter back it, spending 2x on the book and more models.

The counter argument by Mantic is that they do retailer pledges for some projects. But why wait for a retailer when on the same page is a huge discount and loads of exclusive stuff.

The cult of Ronnie is a strange one, they seem more rabid than any other system supporters.

We have one retailer that has stopped bothering with them, and another that is thinking the same. I bought the rulebook from my FLGS, as I have no interest in feeding the greed of Mantic. But like with Dreadball, people lose trust in a company and leave.

Every local game store I've been to has cleared out Mantic and avoided stocking KoW or Warpath. (The Walking Dead has some traction, though.) The thing is, I would buy certain Mantic minis at retail, such as the Basliean Paladins, elf palace guard, enforcer dropship, and many Dreadball teams I missed during the KSes--but nobody carries them! It's a vicious circle. I would love to support the FLGS, but they feel too burned to carry Mantic, so now I have to go to Mantic and burn the KS.

I would ditch the local store, in this case.

But I prefer to play at home these days, so I may be biased. (And, to be fair - the store that I am most likely to go to does have KoW events. I just prefer playing at home.)

The math can be simple - if you do not carry a product because the company that makes it used Kickstarter, then you are guaranteed not to make money off of the game.

If the company cannot sell the game through your store, they are more likely to sell through Kickstarter.

Rinse and repeat until your store goes under. Simples!

Once upon a time, gaming companies could rely on distributors, you know, distributing.

In the US the number of distributors has pretty much dropped down to one - Alliance.

So, gaming companies had to find other means of selling product - which makes direct sales all the more attractive.

Which also means that folks rely less on the FLGS, which makes the stores more likely to go under.

Once upon a time, the standard method of financing was the banks - get a loan, print a product, and pay off the loan, rinse and repeat.

Then things started getting flaky with the banks, as the economy became more volatile - a lot of game companies went belly up as the rules changed.

The retail market is changing - Kickstarter is part of that change - pretending that the game companies do not need to finance is just plain willful ignorance. Kickstarter is a good way to get that financing - and after the Kickstarter is over, if the market is supported, then retailers can also benefit.

The Auld Grump - who really misses the days when Chessex was an independent distributor, not a part of Alliance.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Meanwhile, for the Kids of War game tomorrow - I have set up a scenario so that I get to play!

Each kid will get in two games, but this time the Doubles games will be a bit different - they are up to 1500 points each, and two combined forces will be facing my 2500 point Undead army.

Instead of one Doubles game, there will be two.

My mission is to take both ends of a bridge, so that a major (off screen) force can come through.

Their mission is to keep me from holding the bridge.

Units with Vanguard have the option of coming in on turn 2 at an alternate deployment zone - on the other side of the bridge. (Yes, I am starting the game with the possibility that my army is flanked. And is definitely out numbered.)

So, I will get in two games, and each of the players will get in two games.

The Auld Grump

Man just saw Stevefamine had put his table and armies up for sale in the trade forum :(

My LGS has a wall full of the Bones blisters. I'm guessing it mainly sells to at-home RPG crowds because I haven't seen any on tables there.

nobody wrote:
Man just saw Stevefamine had put his table and armies up for sale in the trade forum :(

My LGS has a wall full of the Bones blisters. I'm guessing it mainly sells to at-home RPG crowds because I haven't seen any on tables there.

Bones are meant for home (or store) RPGs. so makes sense to me.

 thekingofkings wrote:

nobody wrote:
Man just saw Stevefamine had put his table and armies up for sale in the trade forum :(

My LGS has a wall full of the Bones blisters. I'm guessing it mainly sells to at-home RPG crowds because I haven't seen any on tables there.

Bones are meant for home (or store) RPGs. so makes sense to me.

Though Sam's Kids of War army (Forces of Nature) is pretty much all Bones, at this point. (Her parents have been in all of the Bones Kickstarters - they have a lot of gnolls, lizardmen, and bugbears.)

The Auld Grump

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 thekingofkings wrote:

nobody wrote:
Man just saw Stevefamine had put his table and armies up for sale in the trade forum :(

My LGS has a wall full of the Bones blisters. I'm guessing it mainly sells to at-home RPG crowds because I haven't seen any on tables there.

Bones are meant for home (or store) RPGs. so makes sense to me.

Though Sam's Kids of War army (Forces of Nature) is pretty much all Bones, at this point. (Her parents have been in all of the Bones Kickstarters - they have a lot of gnolls, lizardmen, and bugbears.)

The Auld Grump

oh yeah you CAN very easily make armies out of them, the old game Dark Heaven Apocalypse is done with what are now all bones sculpts (used to be metals) especially the Anhur army.