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I feel like Belial would be better for the rerolls (instead of Ezekiel), but then again having psychic powers to buff your DWK and debuff your enemies is also useful.

The 2k version has Belial leading a 10 man Deathwing Terminator squad with double Cyclones and two chainfists.

Ezekiel leading the Deathwing Knights.

Plus some other fun stuff.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I feel like Belial would be better for the rerolls (instead of Ezekiel), but then again having psychic powers to buff your DWK and debuff your enemies is also useful.

Righteous Repugnance on a unit of DWK is golden, it's better to take Ezekiel if you have only one unit of termies in your list.

Just for S+G I put together a deathwing list yesterday.

basically it was..

Ezekiel
Belial
7 DW Knights, watcher.
5 DW terms, cyclone, 1 TH/SS
5 DW terms, cyclone, 1 TH/SS
Dread with twin las, DCCW
LRC with MM, SB
LR SB
LR SB

Just below 2000pts, 5CP (lol)

would be fun to run one time I guess

People don't realize how good 2 Venerable Dreads with Twin Lascannons and close combat weapons are until they get on you in close combat.

When I played in the local team tournament last weekend in the last game they killed over 1k worth of stuff by themselves. Note that we each brought 1k lists.

My 2k version of it would have tabled my last opponents by itself with no help.

Timur wrote:

Aeri wrote:
Isn't the plasma Executioner better?

There is always the risk that plasma executioner will get killed before it even shoots.

Plasma inceptors along with phobos leutenant will be safe in reserves

Point of order - my SM Codex specifies that Target Priority has to be used on a Phobos unit, and that doesn’t apply to Inceptors or Executioners

 lindsay40k wrote:

Timur wrote:

Aeri wrote:
Isn't the plasma Executioner better?

There is always the risk that plasma executioner will get killed before it even shoots.

Plasma inceptors along with phobos leutenant will be safe in reserves

Point of order - my SM Codex specifies that Target Priority has to be used on a Phobos unit, and that doesn’t apply to Inceptors or Executioners

Dark Angels' version of that trait has not been updated yet, so it can be used on a non-Phobos unit. GW specifically excluded DA, BA, SW, etc. from using the stuff in the new Codex: Space Marines, so that means we get to use the previously published versions of the Phobos warlord traits as well as the previous point costs of everything (meaning while we pay more for Tactical and Assault Marines we pay less for Thunder Hammers on our characters).

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:

Timur wrote:

Aeri wrote:
Isn't the plasma Executioner better?

There is always the risk that plasma executioner will get killed before it even shoots.

Plasma inceptors along with phobos leutenant will be safe in reserves

Point of order - my SM Codex specifies that Target Priority has to be used on a Phobos unit, and that doesn’t apply to Inceptors or Executioners

Dark Angels' version of that trait has not been updated yet, so it can be used on a non-Phobos unit. GW specifically excluded DA, BA, SW, etc. from using the stuff in the new Codex: Space Marines, so that means we get to use the previously published versions of the Phobos warlord traits as well as the previous point costs of everything (meaning while we pay more for Tactical and Assault Marines we pay less for Thunder Hammers on our characters).

At least until CA2019 comes out

Black Knights are going to be 34 points a model after Chapter Approved 2019 comes out apparently

 Reivax26 wrote:
Black Knights are going to be 34 points a model after Chapter Approved 2019 comes out apparently

Obviously this is not the whole picture, but does that make them usable over Plasma Inceptors? My gut instinct is that it does not since they are still only 2 wounds without an invuln if you go second, and Inceptors can be placed in reserves and brought down when they need to delete something off the board...

But it does mean that you can take almost twice as many Black Knights as you can Inceptors and you can easily give them a 4++ once you start moving them. Now if only Plasma dealt MW instead of outright killing models.

I hope to see some point reductions for deathwing as well.

abyrn wrote:

 Reivax26 wrote:
Black Knights are going to be 34 points a model after Chapter Approved 2019 comes out apparently

Obviously this is not the whole picture, but does that make them usable over Plasma Inceptors? My gut instinct is that it does not since they are still only 2 wounds without an invuln if you go second, and Inceptors can be placed in reserves and brought down when they need to delete something off the board...

But it does mean that you can take almost twice as many Black Knights as you can Inceptors and you can easily give them a 4++ once you start moving them. Now if only Plasma dealt MW instead of outright killing models.

They also get half as many shots on average as an Inceptor so they need almost twice as many to stay on par.

The new BA article says they'll get Doctrines and Litanies, so we can expect getting those too in our Psychic Awakening book.

What makes me wonder why flavored marines couldn't get them from the get-go...?

I think that the Blood Angels, Space Wolves and Dark Angels are all getting specific Litanies like the Templars did.

It would make sense if the Blood Angels or Wolves had a +1 version of the Assault Doctrine.

I could see us getting a +1 version of Tactical or Devastator depending on the Warlord. That's something that would make sense to me actually. Each of the characters in the lore are quite a bit different so having them effect your army in a variety of ways when they are in command seems logical.

Has anyone thought about spamming RWBK after the points drop on them?

Running 2 squads , 10 dudes in each supported by darkshroud, sammy and talonmaster could be fun.
Throw in 2 dark talons and upgrade to ravenwing attack squadron for the +1 to hit buffs and close combat shenanigans

I don't think I'll run more than one unit of RWBK ever, but at least now I can consider running one instead of zero. Inceptors are still probably better, but Black Knights get good synergy with Sammael, the RWAS from Vigilus, etc. The problem is that 2-damage weapons are way too common. A typical Tau tournament list with 3 Riptides will very easily mulch Black Knights, and a Leviathan Dread with SCA can delete an entire unit of them in one turn fairly easily. Offensively they aren't bad, with a potential 38" threat range (assuming you advance and pop Speed of the Raven) and potentially 20 S8 AP-3 D3 shots (supercharging and Weapons from the Dark Age). Not as many shots per model as Inceptors, but not as swingy either.

One really cheeky trick I've thought about with RWBK is to charge something, fight it, and use the Vigilus strat to immediately run away. However, instead of going back the way you came, send the bikes around the enemy unit towards your opponent's backfield. Then, pop Honor the Chapter to allow your guys to bad touch your opponent's tanks and stuff. You could potentially even pull off some wrap tricks if you do it right. Sure you don't get to swing, but at least if you wrap something your opponent can't shoot your Black Knights. On your next turn, you can fall back and use Intractable if you need your Black Knights to shoot. Yes, that's a lot of CP for a gimmick, but it could at least be hilarious.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I don't think I'll run more than one unit of RWBK ever, but at least now I can consider running one instead of zero. Inceptors are still probably better, but Black Knights get good synergy with Sammael, the RWAS from Vigilus, etc. The problem is that 2-damage weapons are way too common. A typical Tau tournament list with 3 Riptides will very easily mulch Black Knights, and a Leviathan Dread with SCA can delete an entire unit of them in one turn fairly easily. Offensively they aren't bad, with a potential 38" threat range (assuming you advance and pop Speed of the Raven) and potentially 20 S8 AP-3 D3 shots (supercharging and Weapons from the Dark Age). Not as many shots per model as Inceptors, but not as swingy either.

One really cheeky trick I've thought about with RWBK is to charge something, fight it, and use the Vigilus strat to immediately run away. However, instead of going back the way you came, send the bikes around the enemy unit towards your opponent's backfield. Then, pop Honor the Chapter to allow your guys to bad touch your opponent's tanks and stuff. You could potentially even pull off some wrap tricks if you do it right. Sure you don't get to swing, but at least if you wrap something your opponent can't shoot your Black Knights. On your next turn, you can fall back and use Intractable if you need your Black Knights to shoot. Yes, that's a lot of CP for a gimmick, but it could at least be hilarious.

You cannot get in base contact when leaving combat

 Vector Strike wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I don't think I'll run more than one unit of RWBK ever, but at least now I can consider running one instead of zero. Inceptors are still probably better, but Black Knights get good synergy with Sammael, the RWAS from Vigilus, etc. The problem is that 2-damage weapons are way too common. A typical Tau tournament list with 3 Riptides will very easily mulch Black Knights, and a Leviathan Dread with SCA can delete an entire unit of them in one turn fairly easily. Offensively they aren't bad, with a potential 38" threat range (assuming you advance and pop Speed of the Raven) and potentially 20 S8 AP-3 D3 shots (supercharging and Weapons from the Dark Age). Not as many shots per model as Inceptors, but not as swingy either.

One really cheeky trick I've thought about with RWBK is to charge something, fight it, and use the Vigilus strat to immediately run away. However, instead of going back the way you came, send the bikes around the enemy unit towards your opponent's backfield. Then, pop Honor the Chapter to allow your guys to bad touch your opponent's tanks and stuff. You could potentially even pull off some wrap tricks if you do it right. Sure you don't get to swing, but at least if you wrap something your opponent can't shoot your Black Knights. On your next turn, you can fall back and use Intractable if you need your Black Knights to shoot. Yes, that's a lot of CP for a gimmick, but it could at least be hilarious.

You cannot get in base contact when leaving combat

You can get in base contact using Honor the Chapter to "activate" a second time in the fight phase. Although you don't get to fight again, you get to activate a second time, for a 3" consolidate and a 3" pile in, at the end of which you can be in base contact with something. I'm unsure if you can be within 1" after the consolidate with something you did not declare a charge against, but you can after the pile in for sure. DA still get to use the original honor the chapter stratagem which is very badly written... RAW you can select any unit to fight, including one that did not charge (fight a second time is meaningless RAW since it comes after the requirement, but RAI it's pretty clear you should be selecting a unit in combat). The new wording states you have to be within 1" of a unit, i.e. in combat so this trick won't work once we get new stratagems.

Over on the Unforgiven Reddit page someone leaked them the Dark Angels section of Chapter Approved along with all the other factions. This is a summary of ours:

Asmodai 110
Azrael 150
Belial 125
Ezekiel 110
Sammael on Sableclaw 200
Sammael on Corvex 140
Devastators 11 per
Armorium Cherub 5
Eliminator 18
Hellblaster 18
Hunter 75
Land Raider 180
Land Raider Crusader 200
Land Raider Redeemer 180
Repulsor Executioner 215
Stalker 75
Vindicator 125
Black Knights 34

Based on that, the immediate standout changes to me are Azrael dropping by a whopping 30 points (and here I thought he'd possibly go UP), Eliminators going down by 3 (so 21 ppm with wargear), and RWBK down by 4 ppm. Sammy on his bike dropped significantly also, and even Sableclaw is cheaper now. Based on this info they unfortunately didn't touch any of our flyers even though both the Nephilim and Stormraven are not good at their current price point. However, I notice that this list seems to only include the named characters, Heavy Support choices, and Black Knights (which were already leaked by GW themselves), so maybe there are other things that did get some drops.

The Predator was mentioned as going down too but not by how much.

I like these point drops

That spares me 27 points from 3 squads of elimitaors
and 16 for sammy

Not much, but still good

Asrael points drop makes me want to play a gunline again, Maybe something like Azrael + agressors that charge forward while devastators sit back

Azrael Castle formation with some Dreadnoughts providing long range support and close combat support.

Deredeos and Leviathans could provide some serious support

The leak for DA was just one page with some of the heavy support, all of the named characters, and some of the wargear. The page was very blurry and the wargear section was pretty much unreadable, so this is not the full extent of the points changes. We should get the full changes soon when the NDA drops.

I really hope to see some terminator point changes along with even cheaper land speeders.

Asmodai together with some DWK is still one of my favourite combos. With 2extra attacks on the charge and rerolls they pretty much killwhatever they charge.

Changes as follows from D6Evolution youtube channel:

Black Knights down 4
Land Speeder Vengeance down 34
Ravenwing Land Speeder down 5
Nephilim down 33
Dark Talon down 15
DW Ancient down 48 (!)
DW Champion down 28
DW Apothecary down 5
DWK down 2
RW Ancient down 37
RW Champion down 36
RW Apothecary down 32

Nice

Looks good - all the RW/DW Elites Characters were way overpriced. I'm not saying they will make top table lists now, but it's something. Maybe the Vengeance will,see some play now? Azrael coming down was a nice surprise.

My Ravenwing list now has a little more breathing room for extra support. I still find my RWBK to be my star unit and even they got a little cheaper.

Curious to see what new rules we get in CA19. The preciew implied something is coming, or maybe I read what I wanted to see?

Interesting reveal. After Blood of Baal which is Blood Angels vs Tyranids, we get Dark Angels and Grey Knights vs Thousand Sons. The trailer makes it sound like we are fighting in the ruins of Prospero.

Full reveal on Christmas day apparently.

 Reivax26 wrote:
Interesting reveal. After Blood of Baal which is Blood Angels vs Tyranids, we get Dark Angels and Grey Knights vs Thousand Sons. The trailer makes it sound like we are fighting in the ruins of Prospero.

Full reveal on Christmas day apparently.

Just saw that teaser. Wonder if Azrael is going to cross the Primaris Rubicon? Doesn't jive with the points drop, but hey.