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 Cybtroll wrote:
I'm honestly worried that GW is overdoing it, and our spot in the sun will be brief before being nerfed. I mean, it's a decade that I amused to uphill battles...

The current DW and RW seems to work really fine, I fear that ObSec will make them bonkers and destined to a point hike in 2021. We'll see

Losing CP will be the price for getting Obsec. My guess is that your warlord will have to be from an Outrider (Ravenwing) or Vanguard (Deathwing) to get obsec, so it will cost you 3CP for it.

Ironically, it’s changes to the SW Codex that’s nerfed my DA. I’d put my DV stuff near the top of my hobby queue, as I wanted to use the Wolf & Lion strat in doubles with my best friend who loves her puppers. Now, that ability just makes SW really good at killing DA. I guess DA will get something that reflects it but that won’t reinstate our synergy. I’ve put DV back in the loft but am watching the DA codex in hope of something more than a replication of mid noughties Chaos fratricide.

So, the new FAQ just dropped, and in the updated Munitorium Field Manual's Dark Angels section there are a few things I don't recognize that are probably going to be in our new Supplement whenever it finally drops. There's a new unit called a Deathwing Strikemaster (my guess is that he's going to be the Deathwing equivalent of the Ravenwing Talonmaster and be basically a special Lieutenant) and a table of points costs that look like they are for upgrading certain units to be members of the Inner Circle or something.

It looks like the points cost of plasma cannons went up by 5 per as well. I'm not quite sure I understand why this is, I'm hoping that it's maybe because of a special DA rule that will increase there efficiency perhaps..

Has there been any news about when the new "codex" will be released?

Agusto wrote:
Has there been any news about when the new "codex" will be released?

Nothing concrete, but the scuttlebutt says February.

So, according to GW, Codex Supplement: Dark Angels goes up for preorder next Saturday, along with the usual Combat Patrol set. They are also releasing the Storm Speeder, Bladeguard Veterans, and Eradicators at the same time. For those who haven't seen the post yet, the Combat Patrol consists of a Primaris Chaplain, 5 Intercessors, 3 Inceptors, and a Redemptor Dreadnought.

Perhaps it is now time to start a 9th edition Dark Angels Tactics thread and let this one retire after a long and useful career?

 ZergSmasher wrote:
So, according to GW, Codex Supplement: Dark Angels goes up for preorder next Saturday, along with the usual Combat Patrol set. They are also releasing the Storm Speeder, Bladeguard Veterans, and Eradicators at the same time. For those who haven't seen the post yet, the Combat Patrol consists of a Primaris Chaplain, 5 Intercessors, 3 Inceptors, and a Redemptor Dreadnought.

Perhaps it is now time to start a 9th edition Dark Angels Tactics thread and let this one retire after a long and useful career?

Perhaps it is!

The first rules preview is up.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/01/25/discover-new-dark-angels-rules-and-relics-to-dominate-close-combat/

Looks like the focus thus far is on Psychic powers that shut down enemy abilities and Stratagems/abilities that improve our close combat.

Regarding the new thread, do we want to go with something like the Ork thread with a rating of units etc on the opening page? Might be useful to trash that out here?

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Regarding the new thread, do we want to go with something like the Ork thread with a rating of units etc on the opening page? Might be useful to trash that out here?

That would probably be good, and I'd like to help at least some. I don't have enough experience with 9th to be an expert (thanks to COVID), but I like to think from reading various competitive articles (Goonhammer, etc.) that I can at least make some contribution.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/01/27/field-an-all-bike-army-with-new-rules-and-stratagems-for-the-ravenwing/

The Ravenwing preview is up. Big news is that we can refund 3 CP for an Outrider if it is all Ravenwing and contains our Warlord, and the Bike and Outrider squads also gain Obsec. Expect something similar for Deathwing. Our Superdoctrine is also confirmed to progress as the Doctrine progresses. Ravenwing take advantage of Devastator, gaining a move bonus and the ability to advance and shoot. Even if you just add a couple of Ravenwing Bike Sqns to your army, on Turn 1 they can blitz the central objectives, shooting, Obsecing (if part of an all-Ravenwing Detachment) and being able to benefit from Jink for survivability without having to use a Stratagem.

It was tougher in 8th Edition to effectively use multiple Bike Squadrons. Speed of the Raven was a great Strat, but you could only use it on one unit. Clearly this element of the Superdoctrine has a time limit as it is linked to the Devastator Doctrine, but we will see what the Ravenwing Warlord Traits end up being if we can gain an extra turn or have an aura of additional Devastator Doctrine.

Regarding the 9th Ed Tactics Thread, should we look at Tiers for the units on the first page along with a quick guide to how to use the Wings? I think we need to wait for the Codex to drop, but perhaps we trash out some rough options here?

A Tier - Deathwing Terminators (if we keep Inner Circle as is), Deathwing Knights, Azrael, Ravenwing Apothecary, Eradicators
B Tier - Bladeguard (going to A depending how Inner Circle pans out), Ravenwing Outriders, Ravenwing Bikes, Ravenwing Talonmaster, Ezekiel, Ravenwing Black Knights, Coy Veterans
C Tier - Intercessors, Tactical Squads, Devastator Squads (debatable!)
D Tier - Landspeeders (but we'll see?), Pretty much all vehicles

Some good stuff, but a big oof that speed of the raven appears to just be a turn one thing now and high-speed focus is just for RW vehicles. Without seeing the rest of the picture that makes it look like a net loss to me.

RW go from being able to essentially always get a 4++ with a bit of CP allocation to just turn 1 for everything and just vehicles or stuff you don't shoot with thereafter, which, may be more reasonable in the big picture, but a big loss.

Makes me a little worried the good DW stuff will be restricted to a particular doctrine as well.

 TheNightWillEnd wrote:
Some good stuff, but a big oof that speed of the raven appears to just be a turn one thing now and high-speed focus is just for RW vehicles. Without seeing the rest of the picture that makes it look like a net loss to me.

RW go from being able to essentially always get a 4++ with a bit of CP allocation to just turn 1 for everything and just vehicles or stuff you don't shoot with thereafter, which, may be more reasonable in the big picture, but a big loss.

Makes me a little worried the good DW stuff will be restricted to a particular doctrine as well.

The change to High Speed Focus is indeed a nerf from what we can see, assuming there is no other change to Jink. High Speed Focus was great to keep a Black Knight unit alive if you didn't get first turn. Interested to see what the Ravenwing Warlord Traits turn out to be and how they will interact with the Superdoctrine. Something like Tactically Flexible staying in the toolbox will give us another turn of goodness.

As far as the special characters go regarding the tier list:
Azrael: A Tier (agreeing with T2B)
Sammael: A Tier (he's a fast moving Captain who gets even better when there are Ravenwing around, and he's nasty on the charge)
Belial: B Tier (his main downside is that he can't use his full reroll ability on the turn he drops in)
Ezekiel: C Tier (disagreeing only because I'm not a huge fan of Marine psykers currently, but I hope to be proven wrong!)
Asmodai: C Tier (most footslogging Chaplains are not going to be as good as the Primaris Bike one)
Lazarus: D Tier (his 5+++ vs. Mortals is situational at best)

Also, no S Tier? Because I suspect Eradicators and Inceptors belong on it. Maybe the RW Apothecary as well.

If I take Belial I think he would be foot slogging it to the middle with a big unit of obsec termies with cyclones. Full rerolls and a durable threat block. Mission dependent of course.

 TheNightWillEnd wrote:
Some good stuff, but a big oof that speed of the raven appears to just be a turn one thing now and high-speed focus is just for RW vehicles. Without seeing the rest of the picture that makes it look like a net loss to me.

That was my thought initially and it took me a minute to realize fully where RW bikes stand right now. In 9th, RW units get a 5++ save at all times except if they opt not to move. So that means in the first battle round when your opponent is going first and your RW bikes are sitting there, they still have a 5++ save. While technically yes, the new ruling for HSF means that you cannot make your vulnerable bike unit a 4++, you do still have the 5++ as long as you dont forgo moving in your coming movement phase.

From a leak of the Supplement (I'm sure we'll see it "officially" in reviews tomorrow) it is confirmed that units from Codex: Space Marines that have the RAVENWING keyword will get the Jink rule, and units with the DEATHWING or INNER CIRCLE keyword will get the Inner Circle rule. So, we get Bladeguard with a 3+/4++, +1 to their save (so effectively a 2+/4++) and can only be wounded on a 4+ no matter what. Yes please!

 ZergSmasher wrote:
From a leak of the Supplement (I'm sure we'll see it "officially" in reviews tomorrow) it is confirmed that units from Codex: Space Marines that have the RAVENWING keyword will get the Jink rule, and units with the DEATHWING or INNER CIRCLE keyword will get the Inner Circle rule. So, we get Bladeguard with a 3+/4++, +1 to their save (so effectively a 2+/4++) and can only be wounded on a 4+ no matter what. Yes please!

The A Tier is going to get crowded!

Apologies for my ignorance, but how does this exactly work? Can I have Relic Terminators, Terminator Librarians with full benefits from Inner Circle although they are picked from Codex SM? Which part of the DA rules covers that?

Thanks!

There is rule that states if a unit entry has Deathwing or Inner Circle keyword, they get Inner Circle rule in supplement. Same with jink and Ravenwing.

A squad of DW knights with a DW apothecary and DW ancient with the -1 to all damage banner in tow seems really tough to kill.

I am dusting off my Dark Angels after not taking them out in over 12 years.

I want to add some stuff. Mostly a modeling project, but I'd like advice on what is best (or sucks the least).

I want a terminator squad (5 man). With the current rumors, what is best?

Deathwing Knights
Deathwing Terminators (4 shields/hammers and plasma cannon)
Relic terminators (autocannon, plasma blaster, grenade harness).

 bullyboy wrote:
There is rule that states if a unit entry has Deathwing or Inner Circle keyword, they get Inner Circle rule in supplement. Same with jink and Ravenwing.

Thanks; I haven't actually realized that some units in the SM codex already come with the DW keyword.

cuda1179, without knowing what you have already:
Deathwing Knights are the best choice, but they need support from other faster units and from ranged weapons.

I feel like for regular termies, don't bother with TH/SS. If you want that, just take Knights and call it good. Regular guys should probably take ranged weapons, maybe CMLs. To be honest, if you don't want a CML I'm actually wondering if Relic Termies might be better for some things. Cheaper at least, potentially. Plus I'd love an excuse to paint up my squad of them.

Yeah, I'm just trying to decide if I want to buy some 3rd party Saturine pattern terminator armor. If I did I would likely count them as relic terminators.

So, fellow DA players. A question. What are your thoughts about a 9th ed version of the LD-bomb Chaplain?
My idea is for an Interrogator Chaplain in Terminator armour. Upgrade to Master of Sanctity. Give him the "Emperor's Judgement" relic and Warlord trait of "Fear made manifest".
We then have a nasty figure of someone who, if he is within 6'', makes your enemy units:
1. Count as below half strength.
2. Roll an additional d6 for morale and pick the highest.
3. Subtract 1 from the LD of the units.
4. Subtract 1 from attrition tests.

This is just for keeping in line with DA being, well, dark and... a bit nasty.

I think it's situational at best, BUT may be a useful trick to remove those unit that you can't shift from an objective.

I am thinking about going all in on this and having a Captain with "Eye of the unseen" nearby as well, and a Librarian with Engulfing fear for a -3 Ld.

So, Deathwing and ravenwing get to have the same costing units as space marines with WILDLY more effectiveness.

Thanks GW.

Got my book today. It’s fun! Lots of good things you could build around.