Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius

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**JNAProductions**

Martel732 wrote:
Punchy squishy units need to be cheap. BA are punchy and squishy, but not cheap. That's basically the whole story. Slam capt was a gimmick to cover this up.

You say that like GW intended them.

**Martel732**

I meant THAT covered it up.Not intended.

**Forfiter**

Hello, i recently started BA and i am wondering if anyone tried to build list on mass scouts with knifes + buffers + some herohammering?

On paper they seems solid (many attacks, +1W etc.) for a unit that you can put 9' in front of enemy for quite cheap points. Seems to be good counter for guardsman/cultist horde (wounding them on CC on 2+) They can also put some bolt pistol shots once they will be tarpited with horde.

If you start you can put many of them into combat, forcing enemy to deal with them and giving you board control and time for your characters or death company to follow to deal real damage.

If you don't start you pop +1cover and have 3+ that should survive basic shooting but of course if table is flat things are grim in such situation, but you still get board control and can do objectives.

I am thinking about testing like 100 scouts + characters + DC or something, anyone tried that?

**U02dah4**

The problem with that is in big units they are vulnerable to moral and in small your going to lose a lot to overwatch with only a 4+

I've run 6 squads at most and I would go for shot guns if thats the strategy you intend they will do about as much damage but reduce the overwatch you face. Alternatively mix in some bolt gun for your second line. Storm bolter on sgt always

**Forfiter**

U02dah4 wrote:
The problem with that is in big units they are vulnerable to moral and in small your going to lose a lot to overwatch with only a 4+

I've run 6 squads at most and I would go for shot guns if thats the strategy you intend they will do about as much damage but reduce the overwatch you face. Alternatively mix in some bolt gun for your second line. Storm bolter on sgt always

So maybe spliting them into multiple 5-squads? You avoid leadership issues and you got better chance to charge through ruins or something to avoid first overwatch. 20 x 5-man squads loaded with knifes and storm bolters on sgts should do the job. Also we can add inquisitor (greyfax is actually playable) to turn off overwatch aswel and boost ld to 10. But overwatch despite charging on punisher (you don't want to do that directly) or tau shouldnt be issue. Standard 10 man guards shots ~20 times, hiting 3-4, wounding 1-2, killing 0-1 scouts... And you have 8 s4 shots hiting 5-6, wounding 3-4 killing 2-3 guarsmans and then you charge and have 12 attacks hiting on 3 so 8, wounding on 2+ so 6-7 giving us 4-5 dead guardsman giving us total 6-8 kills and forcing them to run or use gem. Pretty solid for 55-57pts unit. And if you add rerols from cpt/lt it become even better.

You clear screen and then your smashcpts come into play... AND you score objectives from map. Bad of course if mission use kill points

I think i need to test it, but choppy scouts seems to be better for me than dakka ones with BA bonus. And this unit is cheap way to give bodies if you don't want to go with IG builds

**hintzy**

Talk of scouts and the new first turn stratagem got me thinking. Would paying for camo cloaks on bolter or knife scouts be worth it now to give them a 2+ save on turn one regardless of their placement?

A unit you can deploy right in somebody's face, which is fairly threatening with +1 to wound, would need to be dealt with. A 2+ save would make them soak up quite a bit more fire, benefiting whatever is in your backfield.

Did camo cloaks just get a solid buff or are scouts still not worth spending any more points on?

**Martel732**

I think the new strat only applies to your dz.

**U02dah4**

He is correct

**lash92**

I actually really like the idea. Definitely throw in the Sanguinor for the +1A aura.
Regarding overwatch: Just forlorn fury your smash captains into your scouts blob and charge with them to deny overwatch.
Characters can't get overwatched when they are not the closest unit right?

**hintzy**

Martel732 wrote:
I think the new strat only applies to your dz.

Missed that, thanks.

**niv-mizzet**

lash92 wrote:
I actually really like the idea. Definitely throw in the Sanguinor for the +1A aura.
Regarding overwatch: Just forlorn fury your smash captains into your scouts blob and charge with them to deny overwatch.
Characters can't get overwatched when they are not the closest unit right?

Incorrect. Character protection does not extend to overwatch. However one of your captain hammers should take the angel’s wing which denies overwatch anyway.

**kryczek**

Hi all. I've just got 10 intercessors to add to the 7 I just got not too long ago. How are you finding them? I take it they are better than Tactical's because I've had no luck with them at all? Also I'm considering the assault bolt rifle variant just to make them a little bit more mobile. Any advice on this?

**lash92**

I actually think they are quite useful. I would personally just run 1 or 2 5 man squads for grabbing and holding midfield objectives. Also I'm fan of the standard RF weapon.

**Karhedron**

Intercessors make great objective campers. I favour the rapid fire version with a grenade launcher in each squad. A Power sword for the sergeant is nice if you can spare the points.

The shooting is a definite improvement over a tactical squad and you have twice as many wounds. Stick them in cover where possible and you have a unit that is annoyingly hard to shift for 95 points unless your enemy willing to point significant firepower their way.

**Martel732**

A single burst from a ravager usually does the trick. Also, you dont always want to just camp with 5 bolter shots. BA primaris are bad.

**JNAProductions**

9 shots
6 hits
4 wounds

How is it killing 5?

**Martel732**

It gets real close. Add in one from a raider. GG, bro. As long as the game has so much cheap damage 2, primaris will be bad.

**Tyel**

The problem is that the ravager will typically be rerolling 1s to hit because of the mandatory archon - and often rerolling 1s to wound. In which case you would expect to kill 4.53 Intercessors a go - which is pretty horrific.

Still ravagers will likely get nerfed in CA and Primaris/Marines in general might be buffed.

I'm in a similar position due to having 10 intercessors on my desk. I've made 5 up with the assault variant - but having second thoughts on the next 5.

I think the issue is windows. I am not impressed with the baseline rapid fire gun. Its better than tactical marines when shooting at targets with a 3+ or better save. Its worse versus Fire Warriors, guardsmen, ork boys etc.

The assault variant is better than tacticals outside of 12", and better than rapid fire Intercessors outside 15". Plus you can advance onto objectives (which is often critical) and still shoot (even if 10 S4 shots at 4+ to hit is impressing no one). So in theory if you are going to spend several turns at 15-24" this is the best weapon - even if its pretty bad.

But on the other hand being BA it seems logical to get in close and leverage that +1 to wound (especially with a powersword.) In which case you will be inside 15" for most of the game and the rapid fire comes into play. The rapid fire is also a lot better inside 15" - especially against 3+ armour.

The assault variant brings something vaguely different to the table - but unfortunately its so mediocre it probably isn't worth it. You are also locking in what is probably worth no more than 10~ points of shooting for 19 points, which is a bad deal. Really its not clear why they didn't just hand Primaris storm bolters.

Be intrigued to know why people like the grenade launcher too. I guess its just a 1 point upgrade so any upside is enough but the frag version seems terrible, and the krak is only "better" than the bolter if you are going to take punts at vehicles which are unlikely to result in anything.

**Rocmistro**

I like the grenade launcher because:
1. It looks cool.
2. It's 1 point.
3. It brings my Intercessor squad to a nice, even 95 points (power sword + grenade), which makes the maths a little easier.

**Bremon**

I use the assault variant. It shouldn’t be 1 point more expensive. Sometimes I miss the AP but it allows more flexible targeting and more rapid movement which is crucial when they can’t fit in a Razorback because reasons.

**Martel732**

Right now it is insane to use ba primaris over dw primaris imo.

**Bremon**

Of course it is, but soup is cancer and DW is just another example of GW taking special snowflakes and turning them into super special flakier snowflakes. Yay GW.

**kryczek**

Hi all, I'm looking to get some advice on getting the best out of our stratagem's like forlorn fury(FF), upon wings of fire(UWOF) and lucifer pattern engines(LPE). These strat's give us a lot of potential's especially early on in the game IMHO but choosing the right unit's for them can be challenging for some.

My last list and a brief report/moan about my mistakes:

Spoiler:

Tldr:
I used FF on the DCD which did get it into CQC turn 1.
I used UWOF on the 13 DC which also made it.
I also used LPE on my flame baal. Which apart from the mentioned mistake's was in his face turn 1.

What I'm looking for is suggestion's you all have for the best/better use of these and indeed other strat's and what unit's they are best to use on.

Cheer's.
K

**Martel732**

Wait for CA and see if we get any love.

**p5freak**

Why did you use LPE on the baal pred ?? You must advance, which means you don't get to fire any weapons, because the baal pred has no assault weapons. LPE is pretty useless, waste of points. All it does is bringing the pred closer to it's doom. Your opponent can charge it, surround it. Or hit it with meltas at close range, which means more damage.
Don't use baal preds, don't use LPE offensively. Only as a defensive tool. Baal preds are overpriced, just like regular preds. And they can't use killshot. A mistake GW hasn't fixed in the BA FAQ, neither in the big FAQ 2.

**Bremon**

Predators are trash, Baal Predators are even worse, LPE is a Hail Mary stratagem that’s limited in scope. At the point you need it you’ve likely already lost or your Baal Pred is already dead. My regular opponent and I have been switching armies to share the pain and wealth, FF has been a useful stratagem in one of the 4 instances it was used. I sure as hell don’t advocate for it, but at least it gets the question of “who is going to win?” out of the way even earlier.

Wings of Fire is still nice but I don’t use it nearly as much now that it’s 2 CP.

I have no expectations for us getting any love in CA but my fingers are crossed anyway.

**p5freak**

Wings of fire is another ridiculous rule change. Why is it the same CP for a 1 model unit, and a 15 model unit ?

**Bremon**

Because we have a unit that’s a soup ingredient so instead of modifying the recipe GW spoiled the ingredients.

**kryczek**

Why did you use LPE on the baal pred ??

I had intended for it to support the DC and DCD by being in his face and making him have to deal with it or leaving it close enough to him to cause problems turn 2 hence the 6+d6" advance and popping my smoke launcher's. Alas it didn't work this time as I moved it too close and he was able to engage it then ignore it before he destroyed it but I do want to try it again to see if I can get it to work better. The flamestorm cannon look's nasty against primaris so I was wanting to try it but as you all know it need's to be close. Maybe not as close as it was in turn 1 this time.

So if you all think the Baal is pure mince, I take it you would suggest dropping it altogether? Or just not bothering doing it this way?

Wings of fire is another ridiculous rule change. Why is it the same CP for a 1 model unit, and a 15 model unit ?

Yeah I agree but to DS 15 DC turn 1. Surely that's worth 2 cp even now? My issue is getting the support up and if the DCD doesn't do better soon I think I'll try FF on Lemartes.

I'm trying to throw as much as I can as quick as I can in order for the SG and character's to get in to melee. My problem,going the other way, is I keep failing my charge roll's from DS even with DOA and re-roll's from lemartes. So I'm trying everything not to use DS unless I can't avoid it.

Thank's for all the advice so far

**Martel732**

You can't DS the support character for DC, though. It's more effective to have the character on the board, screen them with Rhinos and then DS the DC turn 2 or 3.