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 godardc wrote:
I was considering going Blood Angels instead of buying the new Space Marines codex. I really like the fluff and models.
So I was wondering, how do they play ? They have +1 to wound when they charge is that right ?
Is the Baal predator worth anything (especially now with the flamestorm buff) ?
What about terminators ? I do have about 20 of them including the Space Hulk ones.

Solo BA are still low to mid tier. Baal pred is still useless, even with 12" flamestorm cannon. Termis aren't worth using, slow, to expensive and not tough enough. They need a 4+ inv or another wound, or a speed boost of some kind.

U02dah4 wrote:
Yes they killed BA i mean why BA when SM does it better

Well, I'm sure that GW will close the gap between UM and BA in the near future
which will mean new codex and (of course) cards.

 p5freak wrote:

 godardc wrote:
I was considering going Blood Angels instead of buying the new Space Marines codex. I really like the fluff and models.
So I was wondering, how do they play ? They have +1 to wound when they charge is that right ?
Is the Baal predator worth anything (especially now with the flamestorm buff) ?
What about terminators ? I do have about 20 of them including the Space Hulk ones.

Solo BA are still low to mid tier. Baal pred is still useless, even with 12" flamestorm cannon. Termis aren't worth using, slow, to expensive and not tough enough. They need a 4+ inv or another wound, or a speed boost of some kind.

BA got better vs every list except for vanilla. If BA aren't mid, they are closer.

 p5freak wrote:

 godardc wrote:
I was considering going Blood Angels instead of buying the new Space Marines codex. I really like the fluff and models.
So I was wondering, how do they play ? They have +1 to wound when they charge is that right ?
Is the Baal predator worth anything (especially now with the flamestorm buff) ?
What about terminators ? I do have about 20 of them including the Space Hulk ones.

Solo BA are still low to mid tier. Baal pred is still useless, even with 12" flamestorm cannon. Termis aren't worth using, slow, to expensive and not tough enough. They need a 4+ inv or another wound, or a speed boost of some kind.

Tactical terminators have gotten a huge boost in 8th edition. Point reductions and now +1 attack and bolter discipline with the new rules. They have teleport strike and 2 foot range on the storm bolters all the time so not sure what your complaining about. They are a competitive unit now, they dont need anything but a skilled player.

The topic with Terminators is, that GW has buffed Gravis Armor Primarus
Everthing what a Terminator can do a Aggressor can do it better (and cheaper).

Termis are good but for competive play you play with a handicap IMHO.

 Crusaderobr wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 godardc wrote:
I was considering going Blood Angels instead of buying the new Space Marines codex. I really like the fluff and models.
So I was wondering, how do they play ? They have +1 to wound when they charge is that right ?
Is the Baal predator worth anything (especially now with the flamestorm buff) ?
What about terminators ? I do have about 20 of them including the Space Hulk ones.

Solo BA are still low to mid tier. Baal pred is still useless, even with 12" flamestorm cannon. Termis aren't worth using, slow, to expensive and not tough enough. They need a 4+ inv or another wound, or a speed boost of some kind.

Tactical terminators have gotten a huge boost in 8th edition. Point reductions and now +1 attack and bolter discipline with the new rules. They have teleport strike and 2 foot range on the storm bolters all the time so not sure what your complaining about. They are a competitive unit now, they dont need anything but a skilled player.

I disagree with you. How can such a unit be good if it will likely fail the charge after the teleport strike and fire 20 AP-0 shots? since terminators don’t have a stratagem that allow them to charge successfully after deep strike, to me they remain a poor choice which makes me sad because they have such a cool badass look.

Maxamato wrote:
The topic with Terminators is, that GW has buffed Gravis Armor Primarus
Everthing what a Terminator can do a Aggressor can do it better (and cheaper).

Termis are good but for competive play you play with a handicap IMHO.

Aggressors are amazing, especially now with 3 wounds, but they cant teleport. If you drop in a 10 man squad with assault cannons use the strategem that allows them to re roll all hits on the turn they drop in. Doesn't even matter if they fail the charge, they will obliterate or severely damage a squad and be a huge distraction for your opponent in the back field hopefully. Getting lucky and making the charge is icing on the cake. Also, a Terminator ancient dropping in with them or a libby in termie armor can REALLY help them out. Also the new Chaplain rules will increase charge range but we have to wait for the codex update it seems.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spado wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 godardc wrote:
I was considering going Blood Angels instead of buying the new Space Marines codex. I really like the fluff and models.
So I was wondering, how do they play ? They have +1 to wound when they charge is that right ?
Is the Baal predator worth anything (especially now with the flamestorm buff) ?
What about terminators ? I do have about 20 of them including the Space Hulk ones.

Solo BA are still low to mid tier. Baal pred is still useless, even with 12" flamestorm cannon. Termis aren't worth using, slow, to expensive and not tough enough. They need a 4+ inv or another wound, or a speed boost of some kind.

Tactical terminators have gotten a huge boost in 8th edition. Point reductions and now +1 attack and bolter discipline with the new rules. They have teleport strike and 2 foot range on the storm bolters all the time so not sure what your complaining about. They are a competitive unit now, they dont need anything but a skilled player.

I disagree with you. How can such a unit be good if it will likely fail the charge after the teleport strike and fire 20 AP-0 shots? since terminators don’t have a stratagem that allow them to charge successfully after deep strike, to me they remain a poor choice which makes me sad because they have such a cool badass look.

Well in my games I dropped them in with a libby and got null zone and the charge off against a Plaugeburst crawler. Guess I got lucky! They utterly wiped the vehicle and killed a squad of cultists and a daemon prince while they were at it, and that was just vanilla space marines! blood angels get +1 to wound so even more nasty!

You got lucky. It's very possible to fail a 9" charge with 3D6 and a re-roll. This has happened to every BA player. Termis can't even get a 3D6 charge, only JP units can.

Just playing around the idea of taking a SM detachment in a Blood Angels list to give me access to stratagems that work with Blood Angels.

Veteran Intercessors and all the Intercessor Strats, Chapter Master, ect

Anyone got any thoughts on this? Also what would be the most ideal detachment to take?

-Edit Added-

Another big one. Hero of the chapter...

 Crusaderobr wrote:
Tactical terminators have gotten a huge boost in 8th edition. Point reductions and now +1 attack and bolter discipline with the new rules. They have teleport strike and 2 foot range on the storm bolters all the time so not sure what your complaining about. They are a competitive unit now, they dont need anything but a skilled player.

I'm sure you can point to veritable load of good results in competive events by terminators then


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crusaderobr wrote:

Aggressors are amazing, especially now with 3 wounds, but they cant teleport. If you drop in a 10 man squad with assault cannons use the strategem that allows them to re roll all hits on the turn they drop in. Doesn't even matter if they fail the charge, they will obliterate or severely damage a squad and be a huge distraction for your opponent in the back field hopefully. Getting lucky and making the charge is icing on the cake. Also, a Terminator ancient dropping in with them or a libby in termie armor can REALLY help them out. Also the new Chaplain rules will increase charge range but we have to wait for the codex update it seems.

And costs like hell. Sure stompa can "obliterate or severly damage a squad". Not much of good when you cost over 900 pts...

It's not what they can do. It's what they can do related to COST.

And with all the -2 or better 2 damage weapons out there they also aren't even that tough.

Well in my games I dropped them in with a libby and got null zone and the charge off against a Plaugeburst crawler. Guess I got lucky! They utterly wiped the vehicle and killed a squad of cultists and a daemon prince while they were at it, and that was just vanilla space marines! blood angels get +1 to wound so even more nasty!

So you got your 28% chance to happen. Wee. 72% times you would have been sitting there and your 10 terminators would be shot to death. You wouldn't even use your +1 to wound.

tneva82 wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:
Tactical terminators have gotten a huge boost in 8th edition. Point reductions and now +1 attack and bolter discipline with the new rules. They have teleport strike and 2 foot range on the storm bolters all the time so not sure what your complaining about. They are a competitive unit now, they dont need anything but a skilled player.

I'm sure you can point to veritable load of good results in competive events by terminators then


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crusaderobr wrote:

Aggressors are amazing, especially now with 3 wounds, but they cant teleport. If you drop in a 10 man squad with assault cannons use the strategem that allows them to re roll all hits on the turn they drop in. Doesn't even matter if they fail the charge, they will obliterate or severely damage a squad and be a huge distraction for your opponent in the back field hopefully. Getting lucky and making the charge is icing on the cake. Also, a Terminator ancient dropping in with them or a libby in termie armor can REALLY help them out. Also the new Chaplain rules will increase charge range but we have to wait for the codex update it seems.

And costs like hell. Sure stompa can "obliterate or severly damage a squad". Not much of good when you cost over 900 pts...

It's not what they can do. It's what they can do related to COST.

And with all the -2 or better 2 damage weapons out there they also aren't even that tough.

Well in my games I dropped them in with a libby and got null zone and the charge off against a Plaugeburst crawler. Guess I got lucky! They utterly wiped the vehicle and killed a squad of cultists and a daemon prince while they were at it, and that was just vanilla space marines! blood angels get +1 to wound so even more nasty!

So you got your 28% chance to happen. Wee. 72% times you would have been sitting there and your 10 terminators would be shot to death. You wouldn't even use your +1 to wound.

You make alot of good and valid points. Look I get it, im not saying they are the miracle of space marines in 8th, I just think people overlook them and write them off far too quickly. There is alot of nasty damage 2 firepower out there, you are correct, and they could fail the charge. But lets concentrate on what they can do? How about taking an ancient and giving them 5+ FNP? How about a land raider crusader delivering them right into enemy lines and taking out a key target and locking something up so it cant shoot next turn? How about strike of the archangels stratagem when they drop down and getting re rolls for the storm bolters and the assault cannons/missile launchers? Could be decent enough if you playtest and give it a go, especially at the cheap point cost nowadays.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spado wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 godardc wrote:
I was considering going Blood Angels instead of buying the new Space Marines codex. I really like the fluff and models.
So I was wondering, how do they play ? They have +1 to wound when they charge is that right ?
Is the Baal predator worth anything (especially now with the flamestorm buff) ?
What about terminators ? I do have about 20 of them including the Space Hulk ones.

Solo BA are still low to mid tier. Baal pred is still useless, even with 12" flamestorm cannon. Termis aren't worth using, slow, to expensive and not tough enough. They need a 4+ inv or another wound, or a speed boost of some kind.

Tactical terminators have gotten a huge boost in 8th edition. Point reductions and now +1 attack and bolter discipline with the new rules. They have teleport strike and 2 foot range on the storm bolters all the time so not sure what your complaining about. They are a competitive unit now, they dont need anything but a skilled player.

I disagree with you. How can such a unit be good if it will likely fail the charge after the teleport strike and fire 20 AP-0 shots? since terminators don’t have a stratagem that allow them to charge successfully after deep strike, to me they remain a poor choice which makes me sad because they have such a cool badass look.

They are good because they get 40 shots,, not 20. Rapid Fire 2 my friend.

You're spending 335 points for those 40 shots. Its not remotely worth the cost.

NexAddo wrote:
Just playing around the idea of taking a SM detachment in a Blood Angels list to give me access to stratagems that work with Blood Angels.

Veteran Intercessors and all the Intercessor Strats, Chapter Master, ect

Anyone got any thoughts on this? Also what would be the most ideal detachment to take?

A Raven Guard Patrol detachment. Or a Spearhead of 3x3 Eliminators for that 1+ Armour save and -1 to-hit.

It depends on what the rest of your army has and what weaknesses/role you want your allies to cover. BAs have melee pretty well covered so getting some shooty allies seems the obvious option.

A Raven Guard Patrol detachment

The only issue I think is that we burn CP like nobodies business. Adding more amazing Stratagems and the burn is getting harder.

Was thinking of running 3 Battalions but then the troop tax starts to really kick in.

I thought the Primaris Librarian PP that gives 1 CP would be a good way to counter that.

Sterling191 wrote:
You're spending 335 points for those 40 shots. Its not remotely worth the cost.

Of course not, your also paying for that nice 2+/5++ save and powerfists, so if you make it into close combat, goodbye to targets that you charge *shrug* ive had great success with 10 man units, especially when you back them up with a Capt/Libby/Chappy/Ancient.

 Crusaderobr wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:
Tactical terminators have gotten a huge boost in 8th edition. Point reductions and now +1 attack and bolter discipline with the new rules. They have teleport strike and 2 foot range on the storm bolters all the time so not sure what your complaining about. They are a competitive unit now, they dont need anything but a skilled player.

I'm sure you can point to veritable load of good results in competive events by terminators then


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crusaderobr wrote:

Aggressors are amazing, especially now with 3 wounds, but they cant teleport. If you drop in a 10 man squad with assault cannons use the strategem that allows them to re roll all hits on the turn they drop in. Doesn't even matter if they fail the charge, they will obliterate or severely damage a squad and be a huge distraction for your opponent in the back field hopefully. Getting lucky and making the charge is icing on the cake. Also, a Terminator ancient dropping in with them or a libby in termie armor can REALLY help them out. Also the new Chaplain rules will increase charge range but we have to wait for the codex update it seems.

And costs like hell. Sure stompa can "obliterate or severly damage a squad". Not much of good when you cost over 900 pts...

It's not what they can do. It's what they can do related to COST.

And with all the -2 or better 2 damage weapons out there they also aren't even that tough.

Well in my games I dropped them in with a libby and got null zone and the charge off against a Plaugeburst crawler. Guess I got lucky! They utterly wiped the vehicle and killed a squad of cultists and a daemon prince while they were at it, and that was just vanilla space marines! blood angels get +1 to wound so even more nasty!

So you got your 28% chance to happen. Wee. 72% times you would have been sitting there and your 10 terminators would be shot to death. You wouldn't even use your +1 to wound.

You make alot of good and valid points. Look I get it, im not saying they are the miracle of space marines in 8th, I just think people overlook them and write them off far too quickly. There is alot of nasty damage 2 firepower out there, you are correct, and they could fail the charge. But lets concentrate on what they can do? How about taking an ancient and giving them 5+ FNP? How about a land raider crusader delivering them right into enemy lines and taking out a key target and locking something up so it cant shoot next turn? How about strike of the archangels stratagem when they drop down and getting re rolls for the storm bolters and the assault cannons/missile launchers? Could be decent enough if you playtest and give it a go, especially at the cheap point cost nowadays.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spado wrote:

 Crusaderobr wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 godardc wrote:
I was considering going Blood Angels instead of buying the new Space Marines codex. I really like the fluff and models.
So I was wondering, how do they play ? They have +1 to wound when they charge is that right ?
Is the Baal predator worth anything (especially now with the flamestorm buff) ?
What about terminators ? I do have about 20 of them including the Space Hulk ones.

Solo BA are still low to mid tier. Baal pred is still useless, even with 12" flamestorm cannon. Termis aren't worth using, slow, to expensive and not tough enough. They need a 4+ inv or another wound, or a speed boost of some kind.

Tactical terminators have gotten a huge boost in 8th edition. Point reductions and now +1 attack and bolter discipline with the new rules. They have teleport strike and 2 foot range on the storm bolters all the time so not sure what your complaining about. They are a competitive unit now, they dont need anything but a skilled player.

I disagree with you. How can such a unit be good if it will likely fail the charge after the teleport strike and fire 20 AP-0 shots? since terminators don’t have a stratagem that allow them to charge successfully after deep strike, to me they remain a poor choice which makes me sad because they have such a cool badass look.

They are good because they get 40 shots,, not 20. Rapid Fire 2 my friend.

wait I must have missed something: you play 10 of those guys and you also burn CP on them? How is that even considered good to reroll AP-0 hits? Most games they won’t even charge.

You realize you can only legally put two assault cannons in a termie squad right? Or that if you want fisting termies, just run Sanguinary Guard. They do the job far better, at a lower price point, and with significantly more synergies.

Yeah I’m gunna be using 9 Sanguinary Guard w/ 3 fists and the rest swords being backed up by Ancient w/ standard of sacrifice and a Sanguinary Priest. Seems pretty pokey and somewhat survivable. Also, with a bit of converting using stormcast, they look super boss next to Primaris.

Swords on SG makes no sense.

Swords on SG makes no sense.

You normally have a priest with them. So wounding T4 on 2+.

A mixture of Fists and Swords is usually your best option.

NexAddo wrote:

Swords on SG makes no sense.

You normally have a priest with them. So wounding T4 on 2+.

A mixture of Fists and Swords is usually your best option.

Yeah with a priest and the 3+ to hit, the swords seem quite tasty. Even T8 vehicles are 4+ to wound on the charge in a pinch.

It's about as solid as Blood Angels get.

3+ to hit Rerolling.
2+ to Wound

Up to five attacks each if supported.

That will kill anything it touches.

A priest ?? Are you serious ? Swords are already 3 pts. more expensive than a fist. A priest with JP is 86 pts. That's 116 pts. in addition for S5 AP-3 D3. With all fists on SG I have S8 AP-3 D3 wounding T7 on 2s without a priest, that's 116 less points. Its -1 to hit, rerolling everything. Your priest is useless when he fails the charge. Or you have to daisy chain back to him, reducing the number of models who can fight.

 Crusaderobr wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
You're spending 335 points for those 40 shots. Its not remotely worth the cost.

Of course not, your also paying for that nice 2+/5++ save and powerfists, so if you make it into close combat, goodbye to targets that you charge *shrug* ive had great success with 10 man units, especially when you back them up with a Capt/Libby/Chappy/Ancient.

That 2+/5++ is less helpful than you think. You will be saving generally on 4+ or 5+ and failed save=dead terminator. Those go poof. Too expensive and too small inv save to be actually tough.

A priest ?? Are you serious ? Swords are already 3 pts. more expensive than a fist. A priest with JP is 86 pts. That's 116 pts. in addition for S5 AP-3 D3. With all fists on SG I have S8 AP-3 D3 wounding T7 on 2s without a priest, that's 116 less points. Its -1 to hit, rerolling everything. Your priest is useless when he fails the charge. Or you have to daisy chain back to him, reducing the number of models who can fight.

Also means you are wounding Knights on 2s with powerfists. Swords wound of 4s. He buffs your big Death Company squad as well if you take one (And you should).

So yes... I am serious.

Just so you guys can have a bit of a laugh, I thought I’d post up the list I’m making.

Just so you guys can have a bit of a laugh, I thought I’d post up the list I’m making.


Any thought process on this. Seems a pretty weak list.

Sorry I'll expand on that.

BA Chaplain suck. We don't get the new ones.

Intercessors are only good if you take a SM detachment to unlock Stratagems to make them good. Probably best in big squads.

Reiver's are sadly terrible units.

Inceptors are average

Land Raiders are terrible.

BA HQs are some of the best HQs in the game. Take some good ones.
Death Company would easily fill the role you have for your Reiver's
BA Scouts are strangely good for their pts

NexAddo wrote:

A priest ?? Are you serious ? Swords are already 3 pts. more expensive than a fist. A priest with JP is 86 pts. That's 116 pts. in addition for S5 AP-3 D3. With all fists on SG I have S8 AP-3 D3 wounding T7 on 2s without a priest, that's 116 less points. Its -1 to hit, rerolling everything. Your priest is useless when he fails the charge. Or you have to daisy chain back to him, reducing the number of models who can fight.

Also means you are wounding Knights on 2s with powerfists. Swords wound of 4s. He buffs your big Death Company squad as well if you take one (And you should).

So yes... I am serious.

DC is a waste of points.

DC is a waste of points.

Yes a squad that can potential throw out 200 quality attacks in a turn, Mathhammer overkills two knights. Downs Eldar flyers, deals with plague bearers and on top of all that has 3 excellent ways the unit can be delivered. A waste of points sure.....

Blood Angels don't have much going for us but Death Company will kill anything they touch.