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 casvalremdeikun wrote:
So, am I correct in thinking Forlorn Fury is better with Jump Pack Death Company than Descent of Angels? A 25-30" move seems like it is absolutely insane. Also much less likely to fail.

Tough call. Forlorn Fury is better IF you get the first turn. If not, advancing close to the enemy is just asking to get shot to bits or charged by their nasty units who will strike first. The good thing is that you only decide whether or not to use Forlorn Fury after determining who goes first so if it ain't you, save those CPs for something else.

My approach would probably be to use 1 largish unit of DC for Forlorn Fury and another good jump CC unit (more DC, SG, VVs etc) in Reserve. Try to make them roughly equal in value and killing power so your opponent will not have any easy choices. If you get T1, use FF to move the DC up close, ready for a T1 charge With 2 moves, they can easily jump over skirmish screens of chaff to charge the units behind (something that can be a lot harder with DoA).

If you don't get the first turn, move the DC up into a good position (prefferably in cover) for a T2 charge. Bring in your other Jump unit from Reserve and use DoA to charge the chaff screen directly. Whilst not ideal, this will create a decent opening for your DC to exploit on Turn 2.

Of course if your opponent has neglected to bubble-wrap any good units, feel free to punish him for his carelessness.

As CP's are so hard to come by I've been avoiding using any strat's before the game. It's worked so far. I don't use the DC strat as you can usually just ds them and save the point's for later. Remember you don't alway's need to alpha strike with DS troops.

kryczek wrote:
As CP's are so hard to come by....

No, they're not.

kryczek wrote:
As CP's are so hard to come by I've been avoiding using any strat's before the game. It's worked so far. I don't use the DC strat as you can usually just ds them and save the point's for later. Remember you don't alway's need to alpha strike with DS troops.

My current setup is 8CP. I think that is adequate. I like the Veritas Vitae, so I will definitely be able to make good enough use of them.

To be honest, with my other army (Crimson Fists), I regularly end the game with at least 2 CP left. That is probably because I forget to use them.

 p5freak wrote:

kryczek wrote:
As CP's are so hard to come by....

No, they're not.

They can be, but keep on preaching from the good book. Everyone needs to hear the good news; if we open our hearts and wallets our angels of death can truly be complete thanks to our saviour; Astra Militarum.

BA only, I’d say 9 CP at 2k is reasonable and taking VV can net us 1-2 more on average, which is enough for a Descent of Angels, a couple On Wings of Fire, a timely Only in Death or Honour the Chapter, and a reroll or two. Seems good* to me.



*something I’m able to win games with, but not competitive enough for “top tables”, and not “great” like soup.

Cheaper is better in 8th ed. Every say it together. Now, can we move on from the IG crutch? Or at least, quit fussing over exactly how to get our CP?

Circling back to the VV discussion, I’m dedicating my squad to anti-tank/anti heavy support; a few claws, storm shields to eat overwatch, etc., a few hammers. Does anyone run inferno pistols, or see a point to? I’m thinking if the enemy has a tank or two and the squad isn’t instantly wiped in the opponents next turn it’s possible that melta range on the pistols is achievable.

That said; some of those points could be put into a lascannon Devastator squad that can touch things a lot further than melta range.

The value of inferno pistols depends on whether you plan to Deep strike/DoA them or not. Since you have ot land out of range of the guns, they are probably not worth taking if you plan to use them this way.

If you are planning to jump them up the field making use of cover and then attack as part of a second wave then you may get some use out of them. If you opponent has castled up, you may be able to melt one target and then assault another.

I would not count on using them in combat though. As I find very few combat last into a third round. If they have a few thunder hammers, either they or their target are likely to be dead before you find yourself in a position to shoot.

True. I’ll likely deepstrike so a couple plasma would probably be a better choice; or just spend the points elsewhere. 6” range is such a pain.

Bremon wrote:
Circling back to the VV discussion, I’m dedicating my squad to anti-tank/anti heavy support; a few claws, storm shields to eat overwatch, etc., a few hammers. Does anyone run inferno pistols, or see a point to? I’m thinking if the enemy has a tank or two and the squad isn’t instantly wiped in the opponents next turn it’s possible that melta range on the pistols is achievable.

That said; some of those points could be put into a lascannon Devastator squad that can touch things a lot further than melta range.

Inferno pistols are great defensively. Put two company veterans in a razorback/rhino with four inferno pistols. Thats only 68 pts. If your opponent charges you with his daemon/monster pop out on your turn 3" from the transport, move 6", and you probably will be within 3". Now shoot him four times and melt his big model.

Infernus pistols are great as a home run hitting weapon. They are no longer prohibitively expensive.

 p5freak wrote:

Bremon wrote:
Circling back to the VV discussion, I’m dedicating my squad to anti-tank/anti heavy support; a few claws, storm shields to eat overwatch, etc., a few hammers. Does anyone run inferno pistols, or see a point to? I’m thinking if the enemy has a tank or two and the squad isn’t instantly wiped in the opponents next turn it’s possible that melta range on the pistols is achievable.

That said; some of those points could be put into a lascannon Devastator squad that can touch things a lot further than melta range.

Inferno pistols are great defensively. Put two company veterans in a razorback/rhino with four inferno pistols. Thats only 68 pts. If your opponent charges you with his daemon/monster pop out on your turn 3" from the transport, move 6", and you probably will be within 3". Now shoot him four times and melt his big model.

This is something I hadn’t thought of at all. I really like the idea of this.

I've been mistaking the infernus pistol with the combi melta all this time.

Granted the combi melta will allow for T1 deep strike shots but.. for 2 guardsmen and a baby, sure why not. Especially on BS2+ models.

What is the best melee weapon for a (somtimes/often) Death Company Lieutenant? I've already stolen the hammer of Baal. This will likely be a forward/aggressive model too, for context. The humble power sword? Axe, fist, hammer?

Hammer in my opinion is the right weapon for characters the vast majority of the time because they have a reasonable amount of attacks to make use of it. Claws or chainsword add 50% more attacks to a standard veteran infantry. They add a smaller percentage to a captain or lieutenant, while the increased damage and likeliness of wounding tilts the scale in favour of the hammer in my eyes.

If you aren’t taking the relic banner is there much of a reason to take a terminator Ancient over the terminator chaplain? The Ancient will take the termies to Ld 10, which will practically never be a factor, and unless my math is off, the chaplain is cheaper. I suppose if you want another thunder hammer in your list the Ancient is your guy, but you can get thunder hammer attacks at a better price elsewhere.

I dont see any reason to use the termi ancient over the termi chaplain. The chaplain is 14 pts. cheaper.

Has anyone tested putting jump troops in a LRC? Because that’s 8 jump troops effectively moving 15in before the charge.

The BA FAQ has three items. THREE ITEMS?!

Hey, they didn't fix anything besides the Predator or clarify anything, but hey, our Intercessors now have Power Swords!

Hmmm no baal pred faq. Guess we'll go with previous comments and itc in my group.

Martel732 wrote:
Hmmm no baal pred faq. Guess we'll go with previous comments and itc in my group.

what does ITC say about it?

They allow it. Still trying to find a document or if they told judges to rule it so. GW might have mentioned something as well.

Why would you not take the banner on the Terminator Ancient though, FNP termies are amazing. He is then clearly.better than the Chaplain.

Martel732 wrote:
They allow it. Still trying to find a document or if they told judges to rule it so. GW might have mentioned something as well.

We're talking about Killshot, correct? What do they say about Lucifer Pattern Engines and if it counts as Advancing?

I’m hoping the FAQ becomes far more fleshed out in March or whenever they are meant to do a large errata. Plus, isn’t LVO or something sizeable happening shortly? More data for them I suppose. I can’t believe it’s only 3 issues addressed.

I guess I can decide if my sergeants should have power swords of chainswords now though. Power swords is likely the right choice, but chainswords look great.

You can still bring sergent with 2 combi grav. Legit FAQ

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
They allow it. Still trying to find a document or if they told judges to rule it so. GW might have mentioned something as well.

We're talking about Killshot, correct? What do they say about Lucifer Pattern Engines and if it counts as Advancing?

I have seen nothing about a lucifer ruling.

Since you use it before Advancing and it doesn`tprevent advancing, i would say you advance.

Joey86 wrote:
Since you use it before Advancing and it doesn`tprevent advancing, i would say you advance.

You have to break down the RAW to see what it does.

- You use the stratagem before advancing.

- Increase its Move characteristic by 6". Simple enough.

- Do not roll a dice. This is where it gets a little funky and needs clearing up. The only time you would roll a d6 when moving is when you advance. If you are not rolling a d6 specifically because of the stratagem, then you do not roll for the advance.

My take: This stratagem allows you to move your standard movement plus the additional 6" (or more in the case of the Baal Predator). There is no mention that you have to advance, it just states you use it before advancing. What does this mean? I get a movement characteristic of Movement + 6" (insert Baal Predator extras...) instead of having to move AND advance. Now, you can still fire your heavy weapons at the stock -1 to hit even though I moved at movement plus advance speeds. The downside is that the "Do not roll a dice" would only deal with advancing. This means if you use the Engines, you cannot advance in the same turn since you do not roll a dice. Granted, you could also move, stratagem, charge since you didn't advance. People are downplaying this stratagem but I see it REALLY good for Flamer Baals. At top damage tier, you're looking at 12"+6"+d6" Movement. Then you add in the 8" flamer range, you're looking at a possible 32" flamer threat range. It's good but niche as most stratagems should be.

I read it that you declare to advance and then use the Strat.

Joey86 wrote:
I read it that you declare to advance and then use the Strat.

That's basically how I see it. It's not how I want to see it, and I used to read it similar to how Hoodwink laid out, but yeah...