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Martel732 wrote:
I like devastator squads with two weapons per 5, myself. Fills up slots faster and your weapons are more protected.

Or go the full 10 men, 4 weapons if you want to use auspex scan.

Hmm. I hadn't thought of going down to 2 weapons per squad. I don't need to fill Heavy Support slots though since I run 2 Battalion Detachments. The added meat shields does seem nice though.

They can help fill a brigade for sure.

Devastators need 1 ablative wound per heavy weapon imo. The cherub counts as one in my book.

Finally got SG in today, and have another box on the way. I really ought to have googled the sprues. One fist is in the box is a joke. Worse yet, the tac squad fist is left handed, so it’s tougher to swap my spares in. At this point I’ll either use axes as “counts as” power fists, or sprinkle in some plasma pistols (in the right hand rather than the wrist mounted unique ones) to make use of some left handed fists.

Edit; just realized I have some Vanguard fists that might be right handed. The DC fist isn’t too blatantly DC so that could work as well since I won’t end up putting fists on them. Still a pain in the backside.

Bremon wrote:
Devastators need 1 ablative wound per heavy weapon imo. The cherub counts as one in my book.

Finally got SG in today, and have another box on the way. I really ought to have googled the sprues. One fist is in the box is a joke. Worse yet, the tac squad fist is left handed, so it’s tougher to swap my spares in. At this point I’ll either use axes as “counts as” power fists, or sprinkle in some plasma pistols (in the right hand rather than the wrist mounted unique ones) to make use of some left handed fists.

Edit; just realized I have some Vanguard fists that might be right handed. The DC fist isn’t too blatantly DC so that could work as well since I won’t end up putting fists on them. Still a pain in the backside.

Hey I have some spare Blood Angels Tactical Squad Powerfists. PM me if your interested.

Thanks NH Gunsmith!

On another note; how does emergency disembark from a destroyed transport work? I tried the surround/trap method and we spent some time discussing it and we didn’t come to a happy conclusion, we compromised and continued playing.

When the enemy disembarks does the base have to be wholly within 3” of the transport or just up to 3” away? Is the model able to deploy that far away if it doesn’t have enough space between my units bases to move through? If either of those questions falls in my favour then 3 characters and 7 plague marines ought to have been killed, but we played it in such a way that only 2 plague marines ended up dead (plus one from the vehicle exploding). Thanks for any input.

I believe to disembark the model must be able to be placed within 3 inches of the transport ( not wholly) and and inch from enemies. The idea is to keep large squads from placing models and forcing the remaining to roll and on a 1 they are also slain.

Bremen, yeah you don't have to be fully within 3". I showed my group that when they atarted complaining that Inwas placing my models too far away from the transports. The difference between within and wholly within is clarified for us, that extra inch or so by just placing the very back of the front rank of a squad can mean the difference between them living or not, or making a charge or not.

But, does disembarking units count as moving out of the vehicle or being placed? I don't have my rulebook on me. If they are placed, yeah, I don't see why they couldn't be placed past your models as long as they aren't within 1" of them. If it is a movement, than no, they can't. When you go to surround a vehicle, keep your models exactly at 1" away from the vehicle and just under 1" away from each other The new Marine bases will make it impossible for them to deploy their models so they are all slain. That is what I do when surrounding a vehicle because it removes all argument.

I posted in YMDC and had it clarified. And your method USB the perfect method for marines NH. It’s not super simple but I think I may try larger squads to deepstrike and ruin transports for my opponent. Seems fairly viable, and will likely scare my next regular opponent out of using transports much lol.

Bremon wrote:
I posted in YMDC and had it clarified. And your method USB the perfect method for marines NH. It’s not super simple but I think I may try larger squads to deepstrike and ruin transports for my opponent. Seems fairly viable, and will likely scare my next regular opponent out of using transports much lol.

One of my opponents fears running both of his Land Raiders at once due to me surrounding them while they were full with cheap squads toting an Inferno Pistol each. 1600 points neutered right off the bat while I mopped up the rest of the army. It was hilarious (for me).

Speaking of killshot, posted an ITC-compatible killshot list in the list section. Thoughts?

Well. After watching a lot of battle reports with various Marine armies and comparing them to my games, I am sold on Scouts and plan on adding four 5 man squads of them to my collection to replace my four 5 man Tactical Squads with Hand Flamer/Power Fist and Flamer. Those Tac Squads, while fairly cheap, often end up doing very little and seem unnecessary now that I have converted my Assault Marines over to Death Company and rolled in a few Power Fists into them.

I know I want two of the squads to be Bolt Pistol and Combat Knife, but am a bit stuck on what to do with the other two and can't decide between these two loadouts:

-5x Bolter
-4x Bolter, Heavy Bolter

I like the idea of the 5 Bolter squad since it keeps them as cheap and mobile objective grabbers, but after seeing the Hellfire Shells strategem being put to good use in a few games it seems like it can come in handy. However... having to spend a CP on it means less CP to use for our Blood Angels shenanigans and that makes it a bit less attractive.

Bolters only is my vote. So far the heavy bolter doesn’t do much for me. I’ve only proxied the scouts a few times but they get mangled before they can do anything of worth (granted, I use them as speed bumps) and I never feel like spending the CP on hellfire rather than something else.

For my scouts, personally, I went with Close Combat Blades across the board, coupled with pistols.

Keep them cheap, as Bremon said. I find that if I keep them hidden/on an objective, and occasionally run them with Camo Cloaks as well, they're pretty durable for their points.

They also punch way above their weight class with Red Thirst and 2 attacks each. I only run a squad of 5 of them, though.

I'll likely make another 5 man squad in the future and kit them for shooting (Bolters across the board, maybe a combi-plasma on the sergeant perhaps?) and give them camo cloaks as well, for general purpose.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 Red__Thirst wrote:
For my scouts, personally, I went with Close Combat Blades across the board, coupled with pistols.

Keep them cheap, as Bremon said. I find that if I keep them hidden/on an objective, and occasionally run them with Camo Cloaks as well, they're pretty durable for their points.

They also punch way above their weight class with Red Thirst and 2 attacks each. I only run a squad of 5 of them, though.

I'll likely make another 5 man squad in the future and kit them for shooting (Bolters across the board, maybe a combi-plasma on the sergeant perhaps?) and give them camo cloaks as well, for general purpose.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Yeah, that is what I am going to end up doing. Two 5 man Pistol/CCW weapon squads and two 5 man Bolter squads for a little bit of added range. That way I can mix it up in my army while keeping the points the same.

Sounds like a pretty good plan to me. Run them cheap, expect nothing from them, and be pleased when they accomplish something beyond helping deny deep strikes and unlocking command points.

I’m building a DC captain, standard captain, and a lieutenant at this point. Any reason for them not to basically all be given thunder hammers? Fists are less than ideal with D3 damage, and everything else is basically 1 damage which won’t scare the types of enemies our primary beatstick characters ought to be in combat with. As you can tell, my mind is mostly made up but I’m certainly open to hearing other opinions.

If you are tooling up characters for CC, the Thunder Hammer is a logical choice. If you want to mulch tough infantry then you could maybe make a case for a Relic Blade but overall I think TH is hard to beat.

So a mono-BA list is placing second at LVO?

Mark Wright's 2k 10 CP mono-BA

2x Batallion + Vanguard

1st Bat

Captain + jump pack + storm shield + thunder hammer + Angel's wings + Artisan of War (Warlord)
Librarian + jump pack + storm bolter + force staff

3x 5man Intercessor, bolt rifles, grenade launcher, chainsword on Sgt

2nd Bat

Sanguinary priest + jump pack + chainsword + storm bolter
Sanguinor

5man Intercessor, bolt rifles, grenade launcher, chainsword on Sgt
5man scouts, bolters, chainsword on Sgt
7man Tactical squad, bolters, heavy bolter, chainsword on Sgt

Vanguard

Lemartes

15man Death company + jump packs + 15x boltgun + 1x power fist + 14x chainsword
10man Sanguinary guard + Angelus boltguns & encarmine swords
Sanguinary ancient + angelus boltgun & encarmine sword + Relic Banner
Company Ancient + power sword

1999 points.

Do you agree with me, that if someone would have published this list on list section, it would probably got complaints about lack of anti-armour elements? I can see how that list is played, but is the Company ancient more than a filler?

There was other BA stuff on top 8 lists, Mephy and JP captain's with storm shields and thunder hammers as supreme command detachment etc. Weird to see BA on the top tables, I've got a BA&DA list that I want to try out next, even that I love mono-builds and really nice to see a mono-BA, with insignia units that high in a major tournament.

I looked heavily at Mark's run through the event. He played nids, ad mech, and multiple chaos, so hasn't had to stare down the barrel of an eldar yet. Pretty good matchup luck. I know from personal and painful experience that dark reapers will chew up primaris and sanguinary guard, even with the fnp banner nearby. Pretty sure he will absolutely have to play one in the semi's and possibly again in finals if they do top 8 pairings like I think they do. There are four pure eldar up there after all.

Even then the games have been close, some of them scarily close, and his tiebreakers have suffered. A tie would've cut him from top 8, and a loss would send him way down to 30th. Tightrope walking!

Overall his list is competitive and seems well designed in light of how the itc missions work. I wish him luck in the top 8.

Yeah, I don't like that list at all.

Martel732 wrote:
Yeah, I don't like that list at all.

Against the lists he has faced the list is fantastic. Hands down.

Against AM, the list would have eventually been struggled. But that's how life is.

True, haha.

Finally some intercessors!

Assembled another 5 VV for a full squad of ten. I’m very much looking forward to assembling death company and more Primaris. Vanguard were a breath of fresh air compared to Sanguinary Guard, which I would say is one of the most mediocre kits I’ve ever bought from GW where fit/finish/ease of assembly is considered. With some effort the final result is pretty good but...the strategy I’m taking away from the experience is “never have the need to play more than 10 SG and an Ancient” lol. Even the feathered pauldron drives me crazy because the fit is mediocre without some work, and GW puts it on the chapter badge pauldron rather than the side with company markings.

On tactica topic; I’m happy to see a pure BA list doing well, and I’m shocked that he’s using a max squad of both DC and SG. Even the amount of characters he’s using and the percentage of his points they represent flies in the face of how I design my list. Very nice to see intercessors fielded. I’ve consistently had better results with them than Tac Squads that cost similar points with a special or heavy weapon.

Bremon wrote:
Assembled another 5 VV for a full squad of ten. I’m very much looking forward to assembling death company and more Primaris. Vanguard were a breath of fresh air compared to Sanguinary Guard, which I would say is one of the most mediocre kits I’ve ever bought from GW where fit/finish/ease of assembly is considered. With some effort the final result is pretty good but...the strategy I’m taking away from the experience is “never have the need to play more than 10 SG and an Ancient” lol. Even the feathered pauldron drives me crazy because the fit is mediocre without some work, and GW puts it on the chapter badge pauldron rather than the side with company markings.

On tactica topic; I’m happy to see a pure BA list doing well, and I’m shocked that he’s using a max squad of both DC and SG. Even the amount of characters he’s using and the percentage of his points they represent flies in the face of how I design my list. Very nice to see intercessors fielded. I’ve consistently had better results with them than Tac Squads that cost similar points with a special or heavy weapon.

Intercessors are the best troops we can field: 90 points for 10 wounds, a decent bolter with an annoying AP -1 and improved range, they are not that bad in combat if you want to spend 4 additional points to make your sgt a bit more killy with that juicy power sword. They become a nightmare when in cover and they can hold an objective for the whole game. Additionally they can also protect your devastator squads / hellblasters.
5 men tactical squad are utter garbage while bolter scouts are better but still not as much useful as intercessors: these guys rock!

Yep, totally agree. Intercessors are a great bully unit. Their AP counteracts cover bonus, their +1 attack and wound over tac marines means you can’t send trash like a marine assault squad to dislodge them from an objective. Tac Squads get steamrolled quickly while Intercessor Squads give my regular opponent pause. I still use the occasional tac squad but I have 20 intercessors and will likely get ten more to have a nice variety of assault bolt rifle and standard bolt rifles.

Spado wrote:

Intercessors are the best troops we can field: 90 points for 10 wounds, a decent bolter with an annoying AP -1 and improved range, they are not that bad in combat if you want to spend 4 additional points to make your sgt a bit more killy with that juicy power sword. They become a nightmare when in cover and they can hold an objective for the whole game. Additionally they can also protect your devastator squads / hellblasters.
5 men tactical squad are utter garbage while bolter scouts are better but still not as much useful as intercessors: these guys rock!

So thats why every batallion has them ? No wait, scouts are in pretty much every batallion. Its great how they cant embark a LR, while terminators and JP infantry can Also nice how they increase your deployment count, because they cant go in any transport, except the repulsor. Who wants first turn anyway ? Also their weapon choices are fantastic. They can choose from 4, wow, so impressive. Company vets have 24 The models itself look great, though. I like the proportions.

At least you put that silver lining in the end there p5freak. Takes the edge off all that biting sarcasm. Tac marine minis are twisted little monkeys in comparison.

Bremon wrote:
At least you put that silver lining in the end there p5freak. Takes the edge off all that biting sarcasm. Tac marine minis are twisted little monkeys in comparison.

Hah, mine look even more hilarious since they are all metal minis from the mid 90's with newer Tactical Squad arms... They all look super gangly but buff as heck.

Lol if they’re from the 90s I’m sure they’ve seen enough tables to be Company veterans at least by now lol. Plus, even by that description I’d have a difficult time believing they could look worse than scouts. Not even GW promo pics can make those 80s action heroes look decent.

 p5freak wrote:

Spado wrote:

Intercessors are the best troops we can field: 90 points for 10 wounds, a decent bolter with an annoying AP -1 and improved range, they are not that bad in combat if you want to spend 4 additional points to make your sgt a bit more killy with that juicy power sword. They become a nightmare when in cover and they can hold an objective for the whole game. Additionally they can also protect your devastator squads / hellblasters.
5 men tactical squad are utter garbage while bolter scouts are better but still not as much useful as intercessors: these guys rock!

So thats why every batallion has them ? No wait, scouts are in pretty much every batallion. Its great how they cant embark a LR, while terminators and JP infantry can Also nice how they incre
ase your deployment count, because they cant go in any transport, except the repulsor. Who wants first turn anyway ? Also their weapon choices are fantastic. They can choose from 4, wow, so impressive. Company vets have 24 The models itself look great, though. I like the proportions.

Let s be honest: the way you adress your ideas is disgusting and you shall read what you are typing before sending: how in the world am I increasing the drops when you need 3 troops slots for your battalion? Hello?
You have the attitude of a 3 years old boy it s time for you to grow up don't you think?