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Like any unit with a good invulnerable save, your options for taking down Wraiths are either massive numbers of basic attacks (easier said than done with T5 and 3 wounds) or Mortal Wounds.

A Heavy bolter or two to make use of the Hellfire Stratagem and a few well places Smites will help to some extent. The Predator autocannon is also pretty efficient here as it has 2D3 shots per turn, each one doing 3 damage so each failed save will delete a complete Wraith.

Ok,
even that noone really comments on these.. but doing another test game, 4x6" table with dense LOS blocks, 1250 points and mission will be ascension.

I'm having hard time figuring out what will be my counter against the following DG list. Any great suggestions? If I manage to beat that, it'll surely have good pointers for killing necron wraiths as well, I suppose.



Any suggestions? I'll gladly share a similar report if someone felt it any way helpful?

Karhedron wrote:Like any unit with a good invulnerable save, your options for taking down Wraiths are either massive numbers of basic attacks (easier said than done with T5 and 3 wounds) or Mortal Wounds.

A Heavy bolter or two to make use of the Hellfire Stratagem and a few well places Smites will help to some extent. The Predator autocannon is also pretty efficient here as it has 2D3 shots per turn, each one doing 3 damage so each failed save will delete a complete Wraith.

I have meph with smite and blood boil, cant afford another libby. Predator sounds good, but I'm pretty sure i will face 1 or 2 doomsday arks surrounded by lots of scarabs. Each ark has D6 shots with S10 AP-5 and D6 damage, when standing still. A pred wont last long, one ark can pop it in one turn. A contemptor mortis dreadnought with twin autocannons is 166 pts, it has 5++, BS2+, 8 shots at S7 AP-1 D2. And it uses chapter tactics, vehicles dont. I want to run them as RG, for -1 to hit.

Xirax wrote:Ok,
even that noone really comments on these.. but doing another test game, 4x6" table with dense LOS blocks, 1250 points and mission will be ascension.

I'm having hard time figuring out what will be my counter against the following DG list. Any great suggestions? If I manage to beat that, it'll surely have good pointers for killing necron wraiths as well, I suppose.

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Death Guard) [70 PL, 1250pts] ++

+ Heavy Support +

Plagueburst Crawler [8 PL, 140pts]: 2x Plaguespitter, Heavy Slugger

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 85pts]: Plasma pistol, Power sword

Daemon Prince of Nurgle [9 PL, 180pts]: 1. Miasma of Pestilence, 6. Arch-Contaminator, Malefic talon, The Suppurating Plate, Warlord, Wings

+ Fast Attack +

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

Foetid Bloat-drone [8 PL, 158pts]: 2x Plaguespitters, Plague probe

+ Troops +

Plague Marines [7 PL, 124pts]
. Plague Champion: Plague knife, Plasma gun
. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Plague Marines [7 PL, 124pts]
. Plague Champion: Plague knife, Plasma gun
. 2x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Plague Marines [10 PL, 123pts]
. Plague Champion: Boltgun, Plaguesword
. 3x Plague Marine w/ boltgun
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher
. Plague Marine w/ Special Weapon: Blight launcher

++ Total: [70 PL, 1250pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Any suggestions? I'll gladly share a similar report if someone felt it any way helpful?

Anything with S8+ is probably the best counter to bloat drones. I think rocket launchers are a good choice, 48" range, and they can be used as anti horde as well. Also you can use the flakk missile stratagem which deals mortal wounds to FLY units. Unfortunately DG works against MW. Lascannons are the better choice for this list, there arent any hordes, but a crawler, which is T8.

This is probably not the best place to share battle reports. There is a battle report section in this forum. I dont mind if you post battle reports here, but you might get more feedback in the battle report section.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/forums/show/17.page

Hmm, Dreads should make short work of those Bloat Drones. Libby Dread and/or DC Dread are probably the best choice. At S6, they will be needing 5s to wound the Dreads so they will find it much harder to make a mess of them than our infantry. They only have 9" range guns so they will need to come to you anyway. Backing out of CC and still shooting is annoying but at least we can give chase and wallop them.

Is a Twin-heavy flamer Razorback with a stormbolter and squad of 5 tacticals with a heavy flamer and storm bolter any good?

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Is a Twin-heavy flamer Razorback with a stormbolter and squad of 5 tacticals with a heavy flamer and storm bolter any good?

I imagine you'd use it as anti-horde? I don't think flamer is useful at all in eight edition neither are tactical marines. I personally only use scouts for deep strike denial and intercessors as a second screen for my precious triple devastator squad. For anti-horde you can use a stormraven with hurricane bolters, twin heavy bolter and twin assault cannon or maybe inceptors. Intercessors are not too bad neither at this role if they get the chance to shot at something within 15".

 Karhedron wrote:
Hmm, Dreads should make short work of those Bloat Drones. Libby Dread and/or DC Dread are probably the best choice. At S6, they will be needing 5s to wound the Dreads so they will find it much harder to make a mess of them than our infantry. They only have 9" range guns so they will need to come to you anyway. Backing out of CC and still shooting is annoying but at least we can give chase and wallop them.

Ok,
1250 points of sons of Sanguinius against that 1250 DG bloat-drone spam happening tonight..

Is this what you suggested? Mephy for DP and captain and lib dread against bloat-drones... At least I will drop some of them I hope.



As for spamming this thread on my battles, I'll stop here.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
Is a Twin-heavy flamer Razorback with a stormbolter and squad of 5 tacticals with a heavy flamer and storm bolter any good?

Five days ago i told you that flamers are pathetic, and i gave you much better alternatives. Now you ask again.

somewhere I read that Capt Slam can produce Solo a Bloodthirster ;can anybody explain how is that even remotely possible?
I mean I love the dude, but he is 4A 3+ Reroll 1’S with TH. With the DC stratagem, a relic and 3 more CP for 1d3A and 3d6 charges, he goes up to 7A 3+ reroll 1s wound on 2+
My mathammer says that you can get max 9W on him, and that for100 pt Warlord and 4cp which will inevitably die next turn.
It is good, but is not game breaking.
Or am I missing something?

Then you spend 2-3 CP so he can attack again. Plus Artisan trait for 4 damage. “Max” you can get 24 damage without fighting twice. Realistically you can expect 12 W on a standard BT before fighting a second time.

 Emicrania wrote:
somewhere I read that Capt Slam can produce Solo a Bloodthirster ;can anybody explain how is that even remotely possible?
I mean I love the dude, but he is 4A 3+ Reroll 1’S with TH. With the DC stratagem, a relic and 3 more CP for 1d3A and 3d6 charges, he goes up to 7A 3+ reroll 1s wound on 2+
My mathammer says that you can get max 9W on him, and that for100 pt Warlord and 4cp which will inevitably die next turn.
It is good, but is not game breaking.
Or am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing a lot. Death visions of sanguinius gives him black rage, +1 attack on charge. Unleash rage gives him +1 attack, red rampage gives him +1D3 (average 2) attacks, the sanguinor nearby gives him +1 attack, thats 9 attacks. Artisan of war is 4 damage for his hammer. 9 attacks with 4 damage is 36 damage at best. Now spend 3CP for honor the chapter to fight again. Thats 72 damage in one turn, in theory Does that sound game breaking ?

After a few dud games the first few times out my DC Captain is continuously becoming a force to be reckoned with. He’s a beautiful hybrid of a scalpel and a stick of dynamite. He surgically removes whatever I deem the largest threat, and then he’s gone.

Bremon wrote:
After a few dud games the first few times out my DC Captain is continuously becoming a force to be reckoned with. He’s a beautiful hybrid of a scalpel and a stick of dynamite. He surgically removes whatever I deem the largest threat, and then he’s gone.

I'm starting to find my Libby Dread does the same with the right stratagems. Using Quickening and the strat to get d3 more attacks, and Artisan of War, he one turned a knight

 Tiberius501 wrote:

Bremon wrote:
After a few dud games the first few times out my DC Captain is continuously becoming a force to be reckoned with. He’s a beautiful hybrid of a scalpel and a stick of dynamite. He surgically removes whatever I deem the largest threat, and then he’s gone.

I'm starting to find my Libby Dread does the same with the right stratagems. Using Quickening and the strat to get d3 more attacks, and Artisan of War, he one turned a knight

The problem I’ve had with our special bionic bookkeeper is that he’s even more reliant on dice rolls; one less attack base, doesn’t get +1 on the charge, and Quickening has warp charge 7. Warp charge 7 is practically a coin toss and is basically the difference between the dread being good and bad. -4 AP is a beauty, but he’s almost as reliant on CP as the DC Captain because you need to burn yet another go to get your rerolls of 1s.

He’s also more points, and you don’t get to deep strike. The Captain is cheap; sub-120 points that you can point anywhere there’s an opening. The Librarian is more like driving a truck; if there’s a lot of potential targets he’s great because you can send him on his way and be good to go, but my opinion is he’s more expensive and easier to lose without accomplishing anything of note.

 p5freak wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
somewhere I read that Capt Slam can produce Solo a Bloodthirster ;can anybody explain how is that even remotely possible?
I mean I love the dude, but he is 4A 3+ Reroll 1’S with TH. With the DC stratagem, a relic and 3 more CP for 1d3A and 3d6 charges, he goes up to 7A 3+ reroll 1s wound on 2+
My mathammer says that you can get max 9W on him, and that for100 pt Warlord and 4cp which will inevitably die next turn.
It is good, but is not game breaking.
Or am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing a lot. Death visions of sanguinius gives him black rage, +1 attack on charge. Unleash rage gives him +1 attack, red rampage gives him +1D3 (average 2) attacks, the sanguinor nearby gives him +1 attack, thats 9 attacks. Artisan of war is 4 damage for his hammer. 9 attacks with 4 damage is 36 damage at best. Now spend 3CP for honor the chapter to fight again. Thats 72 damage in one turn, in theory Does that sound game breaking ?

I have soloed a Bloodthirster in 1 round of combat (and that one was the Warlord so have a 4++ Invulnerable save and a 6+++ to ignore wounds).

Against a monster like that, it will often kill you which means you can save a CP and use "Only in Death does Duty end" to attack again before your Captain expires. It is a lot of CPs but in my view it can often be worth it trash a Lord of War that costs 3 times more points than the Captain and would otherwise rip through your army. If your opponent does not include some sort of monster that requires such a glorious and brutal death, the Captain is still good for attacking normal units and buffing nearby BAs like any other Captain.

That is the beauty of Slamguinius. You can use him as a normal Captain and he works well (especially well with the Relic JP to negate overwatch). But when facing a massive target like a LoW, you can burn a bunch of CPs to turn him into a guided missile of "NOPE!".

That is the beauty of Slamguinius. You can use him as a normal Captain and he works well (especially well with the Relic JP to negate overwatch). But when facing a massive target like a LoW, you can burn a bunch of CPs to turn him into a guided missile of "NOPE!".

You can make him give rerolls for 1-2 turns in your gunline before you upon wings of fire (1CP) him 9" from the enemy. Sometimes I want really gun down something before I start my assault. A rare, but nice to have option in your maneuver deck..

 Tiberius501 wrote:

Bremon wrote:
After a few dud games the first few times out my DC Captain is continuously becoming a force to be reckoned with. He’s a beautiful hybrid of a scalpel and a stick of dynamite. He surgically removes whatever I deem the largest threat, and then he’s gone.

I'm starting to find my Libby Dread does the same with the right stratagems. Using Quickening and the strat to get d3 more attacks, and Artisan of War, he one turned a knight

The problem is that in order to give the Librarian Dread the trait, he was to be the Warlord. They really aren't built for survivability, so in order to ensure they lay the hurt on something, you have to leave them vulnerable to your opponents return fire/charges. I think augmenting a different warlord with the Librarian Dread is the way to go.

Can we use wings of sanguinius on a librarian with angel's wing? 12+12 movement to deny shooting sounds a nice maneuver to have after deep strike turn..

Xirax wrote:
Can we use wings of sanguinius on a librarian with angel's wing? 12+12 movement to deny shooting sounds a nice maneuver to have after deep strike turn..

If you deep strike you can only get an additional 12" move from the wings. Remember that wings changes your movement characteristic to 12" not increases it by that amount. However, you could absolutely DS in, then move 12 with wings, jumping over screens and locking down something for a turn. This ultimately means that librarian will die the next turn due to a charge/shooting

 mokoshkana wrote:

Xirax wrote:
Can we use wings of sanguinius on a librarian with angel's wing? 12+12 movement to deny shooting sounds a nice maneuver to have after deep strike turn..

If you deep strike you can only get an additional 12" move from the wings. Remember that wings changes your movement characteristic to 12" not increases it by that amount. However, you could absolutely DS in, then move 12 with wings, jumping over screens and locking down something for a turn. This ultimately means that librarian will die the next turn due to a charge/shooting

Not necessarily. I use a relic jump pack libby to lock down a nasty overwatch unit and then DoA in the sanguinary guard. I just don't take pile in or consolidate moves with the libby.

Martel732 wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:

Xirax wrote:
Can we use wings of sanguinius on a librarian with angel's wing? 12+12 movement to deny shooting sounds a nice maneuver to have after deep strike turn..

If you deep strike you can only get an additional 12" move from the wings. Remember that wings changes your movement characteristic to 12" not increases it by that amount. However, you could absolutely DS in, then move 12 with wings, jumping over screens and locking down something for a turn. This ultimately means that librarian will die the next turn due to a charge/shooting

Not necessarily. I use a relic jump pack libby to lock down a nasty overwatch unit and then DoA in the sanguinary guard. I just don't take pile in or consolidate moves with the libby.

Even if you wipe out the unit with SG or DC and consolidate into another one, your opponent will fall back and use other units to shoot the SG/DC. Then they'll go after the Librarian. If they don't, you've got a pretty potent unit running amock in their lines, and it will cause a lot of damage.

 mokoshkana wrote:

Xirax wrote:
Can we use wings of sanguinius on a librarian with angel's wing? 12+12 movement to deny shooting sounds a nice maneuver to have after deep strike turn..

If you deep strike you can only get an additional 12" move from the wings. Remember that wings changes your movement characteristic to 12" not increases it by that amount. However, you could absolutely DS in, then move 12 with wings, jumping over screens and locking down something for a turn. This ultimately means that librarian will die the next turn due to a charge/shooting

But don't I get another movement when I succesfully cast a warp charge 5 spell.. So if I survive the first round, then I could potentially move 24" towards another target and charge with a reroll to shut down another overwatch. Lot's of if's I know, but still. I wouldn't want such a thing running around in my backyard.

 mokoshkana wrote:
Even if you wipe out the unit with SG or DC and consolidate into another one, your opponent will fall back and use other units to shoot the SG/DC. Then they'll go after the Librarian. If they don't, you've got a pretty potent unit running amock in their lines, and it will cause a lot of damage.

This is why I don't tend to drop my best CC units on T1 unless I have to. I prefer to soften up the enemy a little with shooting and then drop in my DC/SG on T2 or T3 to deliver the killing blow. By the time they have done their job, there should be too much left to shoot back.

Xirax wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:

Xirax wrote:
Can we use wings of sanguinius on a librarian with angel's wing? 12+12 movement to deny shooting sounds a nice maneuver to have after deep strike turn..

If you deep strike you can only get an additional 12" move from the wings. Remember that wings changes your movement characteristic to 12" not increases it by that amount. However, you could absolutely DS in, then move 12 with wings, jumping over screens and locking down something for a turn. This ultimately means that librarian will die the next turn due to a charge/shooting

But don't I get another movement when I succesfully cast a warp charge 5 spell.. So if I survive the first round, then I could potentially move 24" towards another target and charge with a reroll to shut down another overwatch. Lot's of if's I know, but still. I wouldn't want such a thing running around in my backyard.

Yes, you do get to move in the psychic phase 12" if you manifest WOS. In the movement phase you can move another 12".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I wonder if this is legal ? Let's say DC wants to charge. Lemartes is in 6". I roll two dice, if I don't make it, I use DoA for lemartes charge reroll. The stratagem says to use it before making a charge roll. A rerolled charge roll is a charge roll, isn't it ? If i make it with two dice there is no need to spend 2CP for DoA.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Well, after about a dozen games with my Scouts, I find myself wishing that both squads had Bolters instead of pistols & blades.

I'm only 3 games in with mine (2 units cc Scouts + 2 units intercessors), but they have really, really exceeded my expectations. The neat thing about them them is the enemy comes right up to them to try and get shots on my backfield or control objectives. Unit of Wraithguard getting you down? Tie them up with Scouts and laugh maniacally. Captain Hammer can't quite down an Avatar? Don't worry, the scouts have his back. A screen full of pox walkers? The scouts have it covered. I even had a unit of scouts kill 3 Windrider bikes.

Is Slamguinius still the go-to guy to strap The Angel's Wing onto? And how have you guys been using your Librarians?

I'm wondering a bit myself. He definitely will get more utility out of it than a libby if he makes his 1st charge. Which is a big IF. You've got a 47.8% chance of making a rerollable 9" charge. If you spend a command point to reroll just one of the dice if the other one is a 5 or 6 on the 1st roll, then your odds of making that charge go up to 55.9%. If a librarian uses Wings of Sanguinius he will always make the charge (if the power goes off). If he uses quicken hes got a 92% without using a CP. So you've got a much higher chance of it being useful on the 1st charge.

It kinda depends what you are facing. I can usually handle non-flamer overwatch if Captain Hammer fails the charge on turn 1. And Captain Hammer usually sticks around longer throughout the game, and the time he needs it most tends to be later in the game. I *think* I'm going to stick with Captain Hammer for now. It's just too easy for someone to get lucky and kill my libby with only 4 wounds and no invul.

 p5freak wrote:
... What worries me are the wraiths. They are going to be 55 pts. per model. I except 3-6 of them. They have M12, WS/BS3, T5, S6, W3, A3, Sv4+ and 3++. Their vicious claws are S6, AP-2, D2. They can ignore models and terrain. They can charge and shoot after falling back. I dont see any counter to those....

The answers to 3++ invuls is mortal wounds and Dakka. However, a unit of 10 DC w/ 2 TH supported by Lemartes will kill about 3 Necron Wraiths. Lemartes can pick up 1 - 2 more. At that price point they are more expensive than Kitted out TWC. Since TWC aren't dominating the meta, I'd say Wraiths probably aren't going to either.

In fact to bring it back to my 1st comment, 15 CC Scouts which cost the same as 3 Wraiths are going to win that fight handily.
If the Necrons Charge, the Scouts lose 3-4, and the necrons lose 1 and take 1-2 wounds on another wraith
If the Scouts charge they kill 2 wraiths, and the remaining one only kills 1-2 scouts.

 p5freak wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
somewhere I read that Capt Slam can produce Solo a Bloodthirster ;can anybody explain how is that even remotely possible?
I mean I love the dude, but he is 4A 3+ Reroll 1’S with TH. With the DC stratagem, a relic and 3 more CP for 1d3A and 3d6 charges, he goes up to 7A 3+ reroll 1s wound on 2+
My mathammer says that you can get max 9W on him, and that for100 pt Warlord and 4cp which will inevitably die next turn.
It is good, but is not game breaking.
Or am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing a lot. Death visions of sanguinius gives him black rage, +1 attack on charge. Unleash rage gives him +1 attack, red rampage gives him +1D3 (average 2) attacks, the sanguinor nearby gives him +1 attack, thats 9 attacks. Artisan of war is 4 damage for his hammer. 9 attacks with 4 damage is 36 damage at best. Now spend 3CP for honor the chapter to fight again. Thats 72 damage in one turn, in theory Does that sound game breaking ?

I’m sorry but that is extremely far fetched, to say the least.
Your hypothetical scenario include no screening units, a successful spell from a librarian, a sanguinor within 6”, all hit, all wounds, an enemy without inv save or FnP and a problemless charge. Is completely out of reality.

I wanna know how to kill a greater daemon with 16W, 4++,6fnp, double screened by 2 units of 30 infantry 5+ daemons. Now given I can DS and spend 2CP for DoA and 1Cp for RT, how in the heck can you bring down a greater daemon with an average of 7A, 6 goes thru, half is blocked by Invu saves, so 4X3 W is 12, 6++ means 10W in total for 120pts of cap that is my warlord, so free VP for my opponent, and a cost of 4Cp and a relic. Having 250pts of hq supporting him is not that functional, imho.

If you're doing 4 damage per wound, only 4 have to go through to kill a 16w model. The math average for 7 attacks hitting on 3, rerolling ones, wounding on 2s, saving on 5++, with a 6+++, is 2.5 unsaved wounds, or 8-12 damage. Is it so far fetched to believe that sometimes the roll ends up with 4 or 5 unsaved wounds?

And if he does spend CP to fight again, this isn't even really a question anymore.

 Emicrania wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 Emicrania wrote:
somewhere I read that Capt Slam can produce Solo a Bloodthirster ;can anybody explain how is that even remotely possible?
I mean I love the dude, but he is 4A 3+ Reroll 1’S with TH. With the DC stratagem, a relic and 3 more CP for 1d3A and 3d6 charges, he goes up to 7A 3+ reroll 1s wound on 2+
My mathammer says that you can get max 9W on him, and that for100 pt Warlord and 4cp which will inevitably die next turn.
It is good, but is not game breaking.
Or am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing a lot. Death visions of sanguinius gives him black rage, +1 attack on charge. Unleash rage gives him +1 attack, red rampage gives him +1D3 (average 2) attacks, the sanguinor nearby gives him +1 attack, thats 9 attacks. Artisan of war is 4 damage for his hammer. 9 attacks with 4 damage is 36 damage at best. Now spend 3CP for honor the chapter to fight again. Thats 72 damage in one turn, in theory Does that sound game breaking ?

I’m sorry but that is extremely far fetched, to say the least.
Your hypothetical scenario include no screening units, a successful spell from a librarian, a sanguinor within 6”, all hit, all wounds, an enemy without inv save or FnP and a problemless charge. Is completely out of reality.

I wanna know how to kill a greater daemon with 16W, 4++,6fnp, double screened by 2 units of 30 infantry 5+ daemons. Now given I can DS and spend 2CP for DoA and 1Cp for RT, how in the heck can you bring down a greater daemon with an average of 7A, 6 goes thru, half is blocked by Invu saves, so 4X3 W is 12, 6++ means 10W in total for 120pts of cap that is my warlord, so free VP for my opponent, and a cost of 4Cp and a relic. Having 250pts of hq supporting him is not that functional, imho.

How do you kill a Bloodthirster in 1 turn? By rolling a tiny bit above average (assuming you fight twice) Average wounds is 7.5 in 1 go from 7 attacks (and its 4 damage not 3 if hes your warlord because you will be using Artisan of War).
Chance to kill him without fighting twice is closer to 4%.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On a different note. I'm building a BA battalion to ally into another army (slam captain, bare bone priest, 3x5 scouts). I also have a Culexus assassin in another detachment for some psyker defense.

I was wondering if it would be worth it to drop the Culexus and replace the (mostly useless) priest with Mephiston.

Is he worth it? is 2 denies and his potential better then the - aura from the assassin?

 Emicrania wrote:
I’m sorry but that is extremely far fetched, to say the least.
Your hypothetical scenario include no screening units, a successful spell from a librarian, a sanguinor within 6”, all hit, all wounds, an enemy without inv save or FnP and a problemless charge. Is completely out of reality.

I wanna know how to kill a greater daemon with 16W, 4++,6fnp, double screened by 2 units of 30 infantry 5+ daemons. Now given I can DS and spend 2CP for DoA and 1Cp for RT, how in the heck can you bring down a greater daemon with an average of 7A, 6 goes thru, half is blocked by Invu saves, so 4X3 W is 12, 6++ means 10W in total for 120pts of cap that is my warlord, so free VP for my opponent, and a cost of 4Cp and a relic. Having 250pts of hq supporting him is not that functional, imho.

Leave all the characters out of it, and spend 2 CP to have you fight again. He gets slay the warlord, but you likely do too, you’ve spent 5 CP, ideally regenerating one of them, but you’ve traded those CP and less than 120 points for 350 points and the most dangerous thing in your opponents army. It’s a good trade off. If you’re not spending 2 CP for “Only in Death Does Duty End” then you aren’t reliably killing the BT. 7x.77777 x 5/6 x1/2 x4 x5/6 = 7.5. So realistically you may have to get a little lucky or burn a CP reroll for wounds because the 6+++ in your scenario tips the scales towards unlikely.

 Emicrania wrote:

I’m sorry but that is extremely far fetched, to say the least.
Your hypothetical scenario include no screening units, a successful spell from a librarian, a sanguinor within 6”, all hit, all wounds, an enemy without inv save or FnP and a problemless charge. Is completely out of reality.

Its the theoretical maximum damage. Of course, this will never happen.

I wanna know how to kill a greater daemon with 16W, 4++,6fnp, double screened by 2 units of 30 infantry 5+ daemons. Now given I can DS and spend 2CP for DoA and 1Cp for RT, how in the heck can you bring down a greater daemon with an average of 7A, 6 goes thru, half is blocked by Invu saves, so 4X3 W is 12, 6++ means 10W in total for 120pts of cap that is my warlord, so free VP for my opponent, and a cost of 4Cp and a relic. Having 250pts of hq supporting him is not that functional, imho.