Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius

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**casvalremdeikun**

Martel732 wrote:
You can't get enough of them. The bolter inceptors all die in one turn to disintegrators.

And we max out at 18 total Inceptors. And we can't deploy them anywhere they can be useful on turn 1.

**Martel732**

Without CA changes, BA are basically done. I mean, they were done before the FAQ, because Drukhari gak all over us, but this is just a "!" on it.

**Covenant**

Hate the rules for ruins. X.x

But all in all I think we can deal with those changes pretty well.

**Martel732**

See you guys after CA.

**p5freak**

Did you notice this ?

Q: When a unit that can Fly declares a charge move against a
unit that is on the upper levels of a ruin, do I need to include
the vertical distance when making the subsequent charge move
for the unit?
A: No. A unit that can Fly effectively ignores vertical
distances when making a charge move. Note though that
the charging unit must still be within 12" (measured
directly ‘base-to-base’, i.e. diagonally) to be able to
declare the charge in the first place.

Our JP units can now make free vertical charges. If there is an enemy unit on the second floor of a ruin (6" above ground) i can deepstrike 9" diagonally away. The charge distance would only be 6-7" (6,7" is the exact horizontal distance). FLY units now ignore vertical distance when charging. The 6-7" charge move ( i need to get within 1" to make a successful charge) would take me right below the enemy units, the 6" vertical distance is ignored (free movement).

Automatically Appended Next Post:

casvalremdeikun wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
You can't get enough of them. The bolter inceptors all die in one turn to disintegrators.
And we max out at 18 total Inceptors. And we can't deploy them anywhere they can be useful on turn 1.

Why do we max out at 18 inceptors ? The we can't deploy them anywhere they can be useful on turn 1 is a beta rule. Not official right now.

**tneva82**

3 datasheets, each 6 inceptors, 3x6=18. And I'll be betting tournaments will be taking beta rules in right away. They took last ones too, no reason they don't take them now as well.

**p5freak**

tneva82 wrote:
3 datasheets, each 6 inceptors, 3x6=18. And I'll be betting tournaments will be taking beta rules in right away. They took last ones too, no reason they don't take them now as well.

Another beta rule. Is this really a problem ? Have you ever played with 18 inceptors ? Thats 810 pts.

**tneva82**

p5freak wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
3 datasheets, each 6 inceptors, 3x6=18. And I'll be betting tournaments will be taking beta rules in right away. They took last ones too, no reason they don't take them now as well.

Another beta rule. Is this really a problem ? Have you ever played with 18 inceptors ? Thats 810 pts.

And like smite and character smite rules pretty much quaranteed to be used.

And whether 18 inceptors limit is problem I don't know. I avoid primaris since putting them on would break our campaign big time due to huge fluff misalligments. Scale of universal destruction due to time paradoxes etc.

Just noted "why". You asked "why we are capped at 18". I answered. Whether that limit is good or bad is irrelevant as they could be 1 pts per model and I would still field 0 of them.

**casvalremdeikun**

So a Captain in Gravis Armor with Artisan of War can select his Boltstorm Gauntlet. This would make the Gauntlet d3+1 Damage in melee and 2D in shooting (albeit with no AP). Kinda want to see how that would work out.

**Spado**

Since I'm going to try the beta rule for deep strike, what shall I use to clear chaff to have juicy targets for my DC? Are aggressors a good option? However I think i ll have to get the repuslor aswell because their guns have a limited range.

**Bremon**

AC Razorbacks are about as efficient as we get for clearing chaff, without using Forlorn Fury to catapult a unit of DC through no man’s land early on.

**casvalremdeikun**

Bremon wrote:
AC Razorbacks are about as efficient as we get for clearing chaff, without using Forlorn Fury to catapult a unit of DC through no man’s land early on.

Pretty much, and since they aren't subject to the datasheet limitation, you can run a bunch of them. Inceptors are decent as well, but they lack the effective range of an Assback (36" effective range on an Assback vs the 28" for Inceptors if not advancing). Inceptors will have a better BS for their shooting, so it is a bit of a trade-off. However, Inceptors can use Upon Wings of Fire and jump anywhere on the board to wherever they are needed most.

**Bremon**

Limited to 18” Inceptors also likely won’t drop into range until turn 2 in the new rules so will have a difficult time clearing space for units like Sanguinary Guard to drop in, unless you want your hammers dropping in turn 3 when you have very little anvil left.

**Voidwraith**

Start a unit of inceptors on the board, out of line of sight. Wings of Fire to wherever needed...

I have been, from the beginning, running six 5 man tactical squads with missile launchers or heavy bolters, and will definitely continue doing so now. Turn 2 descent is something I did from time to time anyway...

Forlorn Fury is the thing...have no experience with it. Anyone have a ton of Forlorn Fury experience under their belt and would like to give it a thumbs up or down?

**Bremon**

I think it’s firmly up in the air whether or not OWOF allows you to do that first turn...when we finally get our FAQ updated it will probably clarify that we aren’t allowed to have advantages lol even for one unit. And if it is possible to use that, who in their right mind would use forlorn fury when they can hide DC and descend some angels on wings of fire instead?

**Xirax**

Just out of curiosity I'm trying to adapt to the new beta rules..

Is this where we are at?

Sanguinary priest is there for being a HQ and sang noviate.. so +14 CP. Maybe two batallion's is too much? but can't really put stuff in reserves either. List should be quite self explanatory, capt goes with the gunline for 1-2 turns before UWOF. Primaris are there for multi-wound and I just want to try them out, shouldn't bring down the competitiveness to much.

Spoiler:

What do you think, are we diminished to have such small T2 chargers.. Capt, Mephy and the DC with Lemmy can still bring some hurt, but not T1. Except maybe Mephy if you want to sacrifice it. I wouldn't bother using Forlon's fury with these, just shoot, board control and when I see gaps in the enemy ranks I bring the assault.

**Bremon**

One CP isn’t worth paying for 5 HQ that total 26% of your points. I’d add ablative wounds to your Devs. As is your heavy support is easily destroyed leaving you with lots of mediocre grunts and a pile of DC that will bounce off the heavy stuff. Once your Devs are gone your anti-tank amounts to captain smash and 5 Hellblasters. Less than ideal at 2k points. Even if your Devs aren’t smashed you don’t have enough antitank.

**Xirax**

AM is rarity in my meta, but whats your take on what feels a good BA list then?

**Bremon**

You’re not far off from what I like to field. Las/plas Devs with ablative wounds, intercessors for midfield, tac squads are best with a missile launcher imo, they can sit on objectives and sometimes get ignored: plasma gets up close and dies: we have better stuff to get close with. SG are a must take for me; they form part of my anti-tank/monsters. AC Razorbacks, and a pile of razors in general are good (protect your Devs, lots of dakka, fewer drops, etc.). When I add in disposable trashto try to get CP I end up getting burned (sanguinary novice is firmly in the trash column for my money). 13 for 2 battalions is plenty. I try to put a cap on characters so I don’t end up with too few bodies. 4 HQ feels like plenty to me. I strongly dislike scouts.

**Red Comet**

p5freak wrote:
Did you notice this ?

Q: When a unit that can Fly declares a charge move against a
unit that is on the upper levels of a ruin, do I need to include
the vertical distance when making the subsequent charge move
for the unit?
A: No. A unit that can Fly effectively ignores vertical
distances when making a charge move. Note though that
the charging unit must still be within 12" (measured
directly ‘base-to-base’, i.e. diagonally) to be able to
declare the charge in the first place.

Our JP units can now make free vertical charges. If there is an enemy unit on the second floor of a ruin (6" above ground) i can deepstrike 9" diagonally away. The charge distance would only be 6-7" (6,7" is the exact horizontal distance). FLY units now ignore vertical distance when charging. The 6-7" charge move ( i need to get within 1" to make a successful charge) would take me right below the enemy units, the 6" vertical distance is ignored (free movement).

Automatically Appended Next Post:

casvalremdeikun wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
You can't get enough of them. The bolter inceptors all die in one turn to disintegrators.
And we max out at 18 total Inceptors. And we can't deploy them anywhere they can be useful on turn 1.

Why do we max out at 18 inceptors ? The we can't deploy them anywhere they can be useful on turn 1 is a beta rule. Not official right now.

It's also worth noting that charging into ruins got nerfed significantly. Now if the unit cannot end its movement on the same level as the target it charged then the charge fails.

**Martel732**

I've had a night to think about it. Most of the changes are okay, except that terrain change!

**Kelligula**

So the best way to deal with a charge is to hide in a building and stand on a stool?

Has anyone gained any mileage using Stormravens again? I was thinking of building a list with one to help my turn 2 deepstrike, but they look like a huge flying bullseye for most gunlines.

**Martel732**

RAW, yes.

**Karhedron**

Voidwraith wrote:
Forlorn Fury is the thing...have no experience with it. Anyone have a ton of Forlorn Fury experience under their belt and would like to give it a thumbs up or down?

Main downside with FF is that you can only use it on one unit. If you use it on the DC, you cannot bring Lemartes with them to buff them.

Based on that I would say the best target for FF is probably Captain Smash. Position him on the table as you would for a normal buff-mander. If you get Turn 1 and a suitable target presents itself, use FF to jump up the field and hit it. If not, buff your shooting on Turn 1 and play UWOF on him on Turn 2.

Bring your heavy hitters like DC/SG in on Turn 2 with DOA as per currently.

The FAQ hinders us but not fatally I think. We have enough tools in our box to work around it. That may be an optimistic assessment, we will have to see whether it works in practice.

**Martel732**

Depending on how badly this faq ends up favoring ig and eldar, im continuing with my plans to soup. Still thinking double punisher.

**Voidwraith**

Martel732 wrote:
Depending on how badly this faq ends up favoring ig and eldar, im continuing with my plans to soup. Still thinking double punisher.

I think this is the correct takeaway. The DS change only holds off our shenanigans for 1 turn, but it really benefits ranged and gun line armies in a massive way. How much so...time will tell.

**Martel732**

I've already dumped dc from every list though. Their niche is gone.

**Spado**

The big sad problem still remains: how do I survive the turn one brutality? You guys have to help me please I'm loosing faith in this edition and I don't want to play my blood angels as blood ravens and get the RG chapter tactics...

**Martel732**

Hope they roll poorly. That's it.

**p5freak**

Spado wrote:
The big sad problem still remains: how do I survive the turn one brutality? You guys have to help me please I'm loosing faith in this edition and I don't want to play my blood angels as blood ravens and get the RG chapter tactics...

Use lots of LOS blocking terrain. Deploy scouts on the battlefield, scout bikers (these are insanely good for the points), and whirlwinds, which dont need LOS. The rest will deepstrike. The alpha strike can only hit the scouts and scout bikers, which are both cheap. Whirlwinds cant be shot at, unless your opponent has arty. You may also soup with IG, bring cheap disposable troops, knight commander pask and a company commander as a batallion. Pask is also insanely good. 200 pts for a T8 W12 tank with 2D6 rerollable S8 AP-2 D3 shots, hitting on 2s, rerolling 1s. The company commander with grand strategist and kurovs aquila will bring you CPs back, and harvest some from your opponent. You can also add the veritas vitae, if the dice gods are in your favor you can double your command points during the game, almost for free, the additional veritas vitae only costs 1 CP.