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2018/04/18 18:02:38
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
If DC is dead, because forlon's fury needs you to go first..
Then it's SG for the DoA T2.. Or is an VV with storm shields a valid option?
Problem with SG is I like the sacred banner on an SG ancient, but it's with the gunline's company ancient.. Which one's better to be boosted with 5+ FnP?
Now that DC is out.. What's our fourth HQ.. Slam, Mephy, lieutenant.. And? Lib dread, nah? Sanguinor to go with the SG bomb? Jump librarian to give unleash rage?
Gunline with small screen and buffers is a good start on every list.. Razorbacks feel good too.. Lot to meditate on.
2018/04/18 18:31:50
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
If DC is dead, because forlon's fury needs you to go first..
Then it's SG for the DoA T2.. Or is an VV with storm shields a valid option?
Problem with SG is I like the sacred banner on an SG ancient, but it's with the gunline's company ancient.. Which one's better to be boosted with 5+ FnP?
Now that DC is out.. What's our fourth HQ.. Slam, Mephy, lieutenant.. And? Lib dread, nah? Sanguinor to go with the SG bomb? Jump librarian to give unleash rage?
Gunline with small screen and buffers is a good start on every list.. Razorbacks feel good too.. Lot to meditate on.
I think the death of DC is greatly exaggerated. I normally assault with mine on Turn 2 anyway. Turn 1 normally has screens, unclear target priorities (and often Captain Smash having first call on DoA).
SG are much better if you want a squad that can move up the field as they are a lot more durable than DC, particularly if you have the SoS with them. I also find SG benefit much more from character aura buffs. This means I don't like assaulting from reserves as the characters will often fail to charge with them. If the SG and buff characters move up the field for a T2 charge, they can bring their character support with them.
Best target for the SoS is a tough call. I would normally go with whoever has the most points per wound. Saving SG is more valuable than a bolter marine from a Dev squad but less valuable than a Dev Marine with lascannon. I would go for putting it with the SG but YMMV.
Sanguinor is really good with the SG but very expensive. Jump Libby or Jump Priest are also really good and will give decent mileage for fewer points. +1S on Encarmine swords is really good, as is the ability to restore lost wounds.
I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star.
2018/04/18 19:19:25
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
I'm having a semi-free weekend so I could make a quick test game and a report for us to see where we are at, it's only a single game, but let's make most of it? If even a single person would be interested I'll gladly do it.
What would be a good counter for a let's say 1500 point game?
These opponents I can get hand on..
- CSM Alpha legion with three squads of 9man zerkers being forward operatives and a gunline..
- Primaris RG force
- Death guard plague spitter spam with either poxwalkers or plague marines
- Dark Angel's gunline
What do you think is the most hardest for us?
point limit is tweakable up to 2k if my all painted up model standard on my batreps can be altered on this occasion.
You guys do know that this T1 in your own deployment zone deepstrike rule is only a beta rule ? If you play tournaments, they may use it, or not. It may be used in the future as an official rule, it may be changed, or not used at all. Why is everyone pretending this is the end of BA ?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/18 19:35:24
2018/04/18 19:32:00
Subject: Re:Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
p5freak wrote: You guys do know that this T1 in your own deployment zone rule deepstrike is only a beta rule ? If you play tournaments, they may use it, or not. It may be used in the future as an official rule, it may be changed, or not used at all. Why is everyone pretending this is the end of BA ?
You don't seem to know that the sky is falling!
..but anyways, we as BA need to test it, show how it affects, give feedback to GW and cross our fingers..
2018/04/18 19:33:44
Subject: Re:Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
p5freak wrote: You guys do know that this T1 in your own deployment zone rule deepstrike is only a beta rule ? If you play tournaments, they may use it, or not. It may be used in the future as an official rule, it may be changed, or not used at all. Why is everyone pretending this is the end of BA ?
In the past, most tournaments have adopted such rules very quickly and I would put good money on them doing so now. The parts of the FAQ that deal with various spam lists is pretty good IMHO and I suspect that most TOs will accept the collateral damage on BAs.
Best advice is to right in and explain that we have been hit overly hard.
I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star.
2018/04/18 19:35:30
Subject: Re:Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
Someone already pointed out that you can deploy a JP unit in your own deployment zone, remove it from the battlefield, and set it up again with UWOF in the first turn, 9" away from enemy models. The unit didnt arrive during a players first turn. It was already on the battlefield.
2018/04/18 19:40:00
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
There's debates on UWOF if you can really use it T1, because you remove the unit from the battlefield and set it up again. I think we need an official FAQ about it. If we can use it, it's no biggie and we are still in a sweet spot, imho. But I doubt we can use it. It's stupid though, when you can use likes of the forward operatives or the strike from the shadows..
2018/04/18 19:43:54
Subject: Re:Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
The opponent may not agree, just as I will not agree to lots of places for infantry to be unassaultable.
How much LOS blocking are you talking about? On our tables a unit deployed in your zone at the start of the game can see, at most, 50% of the enemy deployment zone. Often less. If a squad has two shooting lanes when it’s deployed it’s doing well. No one complains, and games always go the distance. No one likes being tabled and if we use less terrain then dakkafex/exocrine and marine heavy weapons put in all the work.
2018/04/18 19:57:41
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
While I do agree with the logic shown in that thread, I believe this is an example of unintended consequences. I, of course, have no proof that UWOF would not count as "deployment" and thus allow me to move around where I'd like, but I did read this today on one of GWsFaq Low Down articles:
You’ll still be able to use your Tactical Reserves to keep units safe in the first turn, and Stratagems that allow redeployment still have a strong niche but now, to make the best use of your units that deploy from reserves, you’ll have to wait until the second turn. When playing against a list that uses loads of reserves, you’ll have the chance to prepare your strategies, spread out and tackle key elements of the enemy army before they attack.
The key part that makes me believe UWOF would allow a Jump Pack unit that was deployed on the board turn 1 to move anywhere as normal is "and Stratagems that allow redeployment still have a strong niche". It doesn't PROVE that my feeling is right, but it definitely makes me think that there's a chance it'll be allowed...
The key part that makes me believe UWOF would allow a Jump Pack unit that was deployed on the board turn 1 to move anywhere as normal is "and Stratagems that allow redeployment still have a strong niche". It doesn't PROVE that my feeling is right, but it definitely makes me think that there's a chance it'll be allowed...
I'm from eastern Finland where we have this motto: "A pessimist will not get disappointed."
2018/04/18 20:33:53
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
p5freak wrote: You guys do know that this T1 in your own deployment zone deepstrike rule is only a beta rule ? If you play tournaments, they may use it, or not. It may be used in the future as an official rule, it may be changed, or not used at all. Why is everyone pretending this is the end of BA ?
So far, all the beta rules have become actual rules. BA weren't that great after these three Xeno codices, and the faq has just put the "!" on an existing issue.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/18 20:34:51
2018/04/18 20:37:47
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
Why do you play against IG then? I can’t imagine transporting and setting up models, rolling dice, and removing those models knowing that too much terrain and you lose, not enough terrain and you lose, and without allying in lots of Guard yourself, you lose. That sounds incredibly stupid.
2018/04/18 20:46:55
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
One more point on the UWOF is that atleast i've used with conjuction with DoA, so could I still deploy on battlefield and then combo a UWOF+DoA my capt Slam or blob of DC on my enemy?
2018/04/18 20:58:00
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
Xirax wrote: One more point on the UWOF is that atleast i've used with conjuction with DoA, so could I still deploy on battlefield and then combo a UWOF+DoA my capt Slam or blob of DC on my enemy?
Current rules as written, no. Frontline gaming addressed UWOF today and said as much. They also pointed out that the FAQs that address this are legacy FAQs that were made without these new tweaks to the game, and admitted that they did not know the answer to how GW may answer this specific, new issue.
So...we wait for the FAQ to the FAQ.
2018/04/18 21:07:57
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
The power level limitation in a points game is the most short sighted part of the rule, before even getting to the fact that, whether it was a good idea or not, the simple threat of having a t1 deep strike kept people honest. Made them bring the right amount of screens and place defensively etc. Now they have a turn where GW screens for them.
But dealing with the incredibly dumb PL limitation: you can cheaply increase your PL on board by putting a 6th man in scout, tactical, or dev squads, to get a cheap 8, 10, or 11 PL squad respectively. (Which honestly shows just how dumb the rule is.)
My reply to a different thread regarding Upon Wings of Fire and also Gate of Infinity/Da Jump psychic powers:
It's Upon Wings of Fire, correction on the name, and also it's not at the end of the movement phase, but before moving a jump pack unit on the table.
Here's the exact wording:
Gate of infinity has a similar wording regarding being set up.
Here's the new deployment rules from the Community page.
Now a couple of key things to note here.
In the second paragraph it specifically notes the unit as Arriving on the tabletop and deploying those units (not setting up, deploying), meaning they have not been placed on the tabletop previously as units using GoI or Upon Wings of Fire both must be to use the psychic power or stratagem.
Also, the statement regarding the third paragraph noting that any units not deployed from reserve by the end of turn 3 are destroyed, and if using GoI or UWoF stratagem places units in reserve as some argue it would mean they are destroyed immediately if either is used. That's pants-on-head stupid if you're arguing that. They're abilities that allow for limited (one unit) additional movement and don't violate the new beta rule.
An example using the UWoF Strat.
-I use Forlorn Fury stratagem before the first turn of the game starts to move+advance my Death Company across the board. Then the game starts and the DC move a second time, landing within ~6" of an enemy unit.
-I then, in my movement phase prior to moving the model, use the Upon Wings of Fire stratagem to pick up my Lemartes model that had been deployed already and place it within 6" of the Death Company that already moved previously in the movement phase and also keep the model outside of 9" of any enemy models as well.
This does not violate the beta rules. Gate of infinity doesn't either. You can only target a single unit with it.
Just my view on it. Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
UWoF works fine on T1 with a unit that you deployed normally during Deployment. It's already arrived on the battlefield. It's when something coming in from deep strike/Battlefield Reserves enters and arrives that it triggers the Beta rules for only landing in your DZ on the first turn.
Take it easy.
-Red__Thirst-
You don't know me son, so I'll explain this to you once: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed.
2018/04/19 05:32:46
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
One ITC winner and Front Line Gaming(who btw mentioned in advance deep striking primarches would get FAQ'ed away...They seem to have some access to GW's thinkings) said no.
And yes it had arrived on battlefield. Then it left. You can't be on battlefield without arriving there so since you have left it you obviously need to arrive or you can't be there.
edit: Heard ETC also has leaned toward "no" as well.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/19 05:34:43
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/04/19 05:52:57
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
The 'arriving on the table top doesn't count because they already arrived' is such abuse of the English language. Arriving means moving onto the board. UWOF specifically says remove from the board. Moving from from off the board and onto the board is arriving. Trying to play games and asserts that "you can't arrive twice" is relying on a motivated tautology. Where in the rules does it say that coming onto the board only counts as arriving once? Every damn time GW uses the word arrive they mean it every time the unit enters the board. Further, in the critical paragraph, it says ANY TIME, not just the first time. There is zero indication of some kind of concept of "only the first arrived counts as arrived" anywhere in the rules. This is just salty players fantasizing that GW didn't change the rules the way they did.
2018/04/19 13:29:52
Subject: Blood Angels 8th Tactica - For Sanguinius
Ordana wrote: GW's designers really need a course in writing, because the rule says something different from what they meant.
We're using FAQs based on a version of the game that no longer exists to answer questions that weren't even being asked (because the problems, at the moment of those FAQs, didn't exist). They're legacy rulings, and based on the entirely new state of the game, it's possible GW did not forsee how we'd apply all of the nuances of every legacy FAQ to the new, tweaked rules.
20000+ points
