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 Desubot wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
A drop pod should thematically be able to land on top of whatever the marines would be fighting. forcing it to stay outside of 9" is the exact opposite of how they're pictured in every example of 40k anywhere.

Mortal wounds when deep striking into base contact

allow it to charge from orbit

lols ensue

(seriously you should be able to use pods offensively)

Or just use them period. Their current use case is garbage.

But dealing mortal wounds when crashing within 10" might be interesting. Meteoric Descent special rule. Although to me that doesn't solve the problem of their failed utility.

 Marmatag wrote:
A drop pod should thematically be able to land on top of whatever the marines would be fighting. forcing it to stay outside of 9" is the exact opposite of how they're pictured in every example of 40k anywhere.

Ok. Sitw is a blanket whole table -1 to leadership. It increases to -2 if your within 18" of a synapse creature and its a constant -3 if the unit is a psyker. -2 to manifest powers and if you fail it kills the model. Tcytes can also drop directly onto people.

Fluff does not equal crunch and anyone who argues for crunch based on fluff probably shouldnt participate in rules discussions.

It just needs to be much cheaper to reflect its insane crappiness.

I'm just going to make the point that the Callidus assassin can "deep strike" D6+3" so forgo the ability to move afterward as people have been saying for this and I'd be happy to take a squad in a pod

Nothings guaranteed but its a lot more attractive than a flat 9". But hey roll a 3 or less and you're in melta range, which isn't that what this is really about?

And thats exactly it. The 9" limitation is based in large part around a lot of weapon ranges. The Callidus isn't running around with 10 models worth of meltas. It in fact has 1 gun that might not do anything and vs most characters has an iffy chance of doing d3 MW at most.

10 model capacity of Meltas would liquefy whatever target they hit. It's not even remotely comparable.

 Lance845 wrote:
And thats exactly it. The 9" limitation is based in large part around a lot of weapon ranges.

What ? There are very few weapons which dont have 9" range. The only weapons i can think of are grenades, meltabombs, flamers and inferno pistols. The 9" limitation is because of charge range. The chance is only 28% to roll a 9.

 Lance845 wrote:
10 model capacity of Meltas would liquefy whatever target they hit. It's not even remotely comparable.

Last time i checked meltaguns had 12" range.

p5freak wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
And thats exactly it. The 9" limitation is based in large part around a lot of weapon ranges.

What ? There are very few weapons which dont have 9" range. The only weapons i can think of are grenades, meltabombs, flamers and inferno pistols. The 9" limitation is because of charge range. The chance is only 28% to roll a 9.

 Lance845 wrote:
10 model capacity of Meltas would liquefy whatever target they hit. It's not even remotely comparable.

Last time i checked meltaguns had 12" range.

Flamers that auto hit. Melta that gets it's bonus at half range. Even Tau commanders with their 18" meltas because the >9" deepstrike means they don't get the bonus when they drop in.

Flamers wouldn't be taken even if Drop Pods got them closer because that's 7 points vs 2 points for a Storm Bolter.

I brought a pod to my last game just to test it out. Even with a unit of ten Sternguard, I wasn’t that impressed. I doubt I would bring it again at 50 points. Maybe Dev Squads are more potent in them. It seems that the people who say pods don’t need a big reduction, are the people who don’t play Marines.

That's what I thought.

Median Trace wrote:
I brought a pod to my last game just to test it out. Even with a unit of ten Sternguard, I wasn’t that impressed. I doubt I would bring it again at 50 points. Maybe Dev Squads are more potent in them. It seems that the people who say pods don’t need a big reduction, are the people who don’t play Marines.

Devs do it best. Sternguard look more potent than they are.

When I do the pod thing I also bring 3 in order to maximise the effect. It used to be that a single pod doing a suicide hit was the way to go for a lot of people, but Imo that doesn't really work as you cant have as potent a hit-squad in it as say, Command squad or Sternguard Squad with all melta/combi-melta during 6th and 7th edition. You can't drop close enough for it to work well.

Instead I'm more using the Pods to create a new "front", and drop enough dangerous guys to have an immediate effect, but also last a while and force the opponent to spend more resources to grapple with them. The alpha strike of more units (usually 7 of them) is way more deadly, and more useful in the long run. Instead of the traditional 10 guys landing in the middle of the army on suicide run, its 30 guys off to the side in cover for a sustained attack that can also be supported with other units coming up.

I would like to do another type of drop which is just Devs with Lascannons (3 squads) as a much-harder-to-screen-against long range alpha. But I've been doing Tyranids recently and still have some work to do on the SM side before I can field it.

 Insectum7 wrote:

Median Trace wrote:
I brought a pod to my last game just to test it out. Even with a unit of ten Sternguard, I wasn’t that impressed. I doubt I would bring it again at 50 points. Maybe Dev Squads are more potent in them. It seems that the people who say pods don’t need a big reduction, are the people who don’t play Marines.

Devs do it best. Sternguard look more potent than they are.

When I do the pod thing I also bring 3 in order to maximise the effect. It used to be that a single pod doing a suicide hit was the way to go for a lot of people, but Imo that doesn't really work as you cant have as potent a hit-squad in it as say, Command squad or Sternguard Squad with all melta/combi-melta during 6th and 7th edition. You can't drop close enough for it to work well.

Instead I'm more using the Pods to create a new "front", and drop enough dangerous guys to have an immediate effect, but also last a while and force the opponent to spend more resources to grapple with them. The alpha strike of more units (usually 7 of them) is way more deadly, and more useful in the long run. Instead of the traditional 10 guys landing in the middle of the army on suicide run, its 30 guys off to the side in cover for a sustained attack that can also be supported with other units coming up.


I would like to do another type of drop which is just Devs with Lascannons (3 squads) as a much-harder-to-screen-against long range alpha. But I've been doing Tyranids recently and still have some work to do on the SM side before I can field it.

That's so many units in deep strike though. That's one of my biggest issues with the pod, is that it counts as another unit in reserve and so I need another table unit to make it legal.

^That's true, although it depends on what else you're bringing. Mine's a two Battalion setup with more Characters and msu spam. I didn't bother with going "minimum drops" style list, although packing a bunch in transports helps.

Can you imagine the fear in your opponents eyes if you would have 3 drop pods deepnstrike intonthe fray. All delivering 10-man assualt plasma carrying Hellblasters...

If only it were a thing...

 niv-mizzet wrote:


That's so many units in deep strike though. That's one of my biggest issues with the pod, is that it counts as another unit in reserve and so I need another table unit to make it legal.

That's the main issue with drop pods. Too many imperium units can deep strike for free. If pods were the only way to deepstrike SM stuff they would be viable. Of course they'd need to be able to carry dreads and terminators.

No, Imperium would just no longer deep strike. It's that expensive.

 Blackie wrote:

That's the main issue with drop pods. Too many imperium units can deep strike for free. If pods were the only way to deepstrike SM stuff they would be viable. Of course they'd need to be able to carry dreads and terminators.

Well, JP arent free. And there is a dread drop pod from FW. Its no longer sold, but the rules are in the index forces of the adeptus astartes, or battlescribe. If proxys are allowed you can use a GW drop pod for it.

 Blackie wrote:

 niv-mizzet wrote:


That's so many units in deep strike though. That's one of my biggest issues with the pod, is that it counts as another unit in reserve and so I need another table unit to make it legal.

That's the main issue with drop pods. Too many imperium units can deep strike for free. If pods were the only way to deepstrike SM stuff they would be viable. Of course they'd need to be able to carry dreads and terminators.

Why would Drop Pods need to carry Terminators? Terminators already Deep Strike.

The thing is, most Space Marine stuff with decent anti-tank firepower doesn't Deep Strike for free. That's why it's useful to pack Specials and Heavies on power armored guys in there.

I keep looking back at the Land Speeder sheet to see if it's magically changed to have a deep strike ability again.

 Insectum7 wrote:


Why would Drop Pods need to carry Terminators? Terminators already Deep Strike.

Exactly, that's one the reasons why drop pods are garbage. Terminators shouldn't be able to deep strike, simple. And the majoirty of other units that can do it for free shouldn't as well. I'd really like a game with everything deployed or embarked, if you want to get close to the enemy take a transport.

Taking away terminators deep strike wouldn't make pods good. Terminators aren't really viable even with current deep strike rules.

Terminators should be able to deep-strike, but they should go back to paying for it as an option (meaning you could reduce their cost because they're still way too expensive for what you get).

I'd be okay with more units losing Deep Strike, but not the wholesale culling people want to see.

Disposable: enemy units in combat with drop pods can still be targeted in the shooting phase, unless also in combat with units without the ‘disposable’ rule.

And a slight points decrease.

 Blackie wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:


Why would Drop Pods need to carry Terminators? Terminators already Deep Strike.

Exactly, that's one the reasons why drop pods are garbage. Terminators shouldn't be able to deep strike, simple. And the majoirty of other units that can do it for free shouldn't as well. I'd really like a game with everything deployed or embarked, if you want to get close to the enemy take a transport.

Terminators teleporting into battle has been a thing for maybe as long as there have been Terminators, I don't think you're going to get any changes there. Plus, the restriction of deep strike to vehicles is rather arbitrary.

Nor do they really compete with Drop Pods, because Terminators don't have the same kind of ranged teeth that Grav, Plasma and Melta can.

 Blackie wrote:

 niv-mizzet wrote:


That's so many units in deep strike though. That's one of my biggest issues with the pod, is that it counts as another unit in reserve and so I need another table unit to make it legal.

That's the main issue with drop pods. Too many imperium units can deep strike for free. If pods were the only way to deepstrike SM stuff they would be viable. Of course they'd need to be able to carry dreads and terminators.

Then nobody ends up Deep Striking because the Pod is still 100 points, or at minimum 10 points per model to Deep Strike with that additional model that isn't hard to killa that has a Storm Bolter.

Removing options doesn't make the bad option good all the sudden.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

 niv-mizzet wrote:


That's so many units in deep strike though. That's one of my biggest issues with the pod, is that it counts as another unit in reserve and so I need another table unit to make it legal.

That's the main issue with drop pods. Too many imperium units can deep strike for free. If pods were the only way to deepstrike SM stuff they would be viable. Of course they'd need to be able to carry dreads and terminators.

Then nobody ends up Deep Striking because the Pod is still 100 points, or at minimum 10 points per model to Deep Strike with that additional model that isn't hard to killa that has a Storm Bolter.

Removing options doesn't make the bad option good all the sudden.

Yes, the price should be changed as well, I think pods could worth 70 points like rinhos if they were the only way to deep strike marines. What I suggest is not removing options to everything, but clearly the only ability a pod has is to deep strike marines and if they have other cheaper ways to do it, the pods would be useless forever. Pods in 7th were utterly broken for that cost, they needed to be nerfed. Now the increased price cost (twice as expensive as before, not more) and the fact that flamers and meltas could not benefit for deep strike is enough. Allowing several different units to deep strike is a bad concept, IMHO every faction should have max 1 unit that could do that. I'd really like a game in which everything starts on the board, with the excpection maybe of a single unit, but something like 10% or less of the list.

Additional restriction using point/power level based reserves limit could potentiall curtail the deepstrike abuse as well.

Its too easy to create a 2k list with more than 75% of your points in reserves by taking cheap units.

That's where you are wrong. Pods were not broken at all in 7th. In fact, they were insta lose vs Tau. And you often needed a bunch of empty ones. I beat many pod lists with BA even.

Multiple deep strikers don't matter, because deep strike is super weak in 8th.

Martel732 wrote:

Multiple deep strikers don't matter, because deep strike is super weak in 8th.

EXCEPT for deep striking plasma MT CMS.

Right. I meant marine deep striking.

I've been using my drop pods to create "impassable terrain" (using the 1" rule until destroyed) and to create bottlenecks to cut off conga lines as of late, although with limited success. It definitely is too expensive for a transport for alpha strikes - nor do the contents inside pose same level of threats as it did in 7th.

If i were to roll with what some of us have been saying in this post - if the pod's old 'no scatter' rule can be somehow incorporated into the game, it's use could be lot better. To balance things out, units disembarking from drop pods shouldn't be able to charge in the turn they arrive.

Using Terror from the Deep as a template:

Drop Pod Assault: During deployment, you can set up this model, along with any units embarked within it, in orbit instead of placing it on the battlefield. At the end of any of your movement phases this model can perform a drop pod assault - set it up anywhere in the battlefield more than 1" away from any enemy units and 6" away from any other drop pods Drop Pods set up this way this turn, then roll a d6 for each enemy units within 2" of it; on a 1, the unit escapes unharmed, on a 2-3 it suffers 1 mortal wound, on a 4-5 it suffers D3 mortal wounds, and on a 6 it suffers 3 mortal wounds. Then, any models embarked inside must immediately disembark, but they must be set up more than 1" away from any enemy models. Any models that cannot be set up because there is not enough room are slain. Any models that disembarked from drop pods cannot charge in the same turn.

What needs to be clarified then, is to determine whether the 1" is measured from the pod's closed/open position. Right now, there's really not much "assault" about the whole drop pod ASSAULT business IMO. It should just be called "Drop Pod Deployment" as it stands.